OOC II: DH The Purity of Sacrifice

[BananaPhone]

Oh yeah, Righteous Fury for Shard #6 and re-rolling to get her spent FP back.

Righteous Fury: (1D10)[4] - second thought, I don't think psychic powers can righteous fury, sorry.

Charmed: (1D10)[5] - nope, down to 1/2 fate points.

Fat Man takes: 16, 14, 11, 14 damage.
Shriek takes: 14, 20, 18 damage.

[Wyndeward]

I am assuming the range to Trask would be short, what between my Dodge and all that. The shot would hit if it were point blank, but we can't always get what we want.

[BananaPhone]

Point Blank is within 3 meters, and Trask is ~10 meters away, I think.

I'm glad you made your dodge roll there, that would've taken you down to like 1/10 HP lol.

[Bennosuke]

Initiative
Arl 14
Father Milo 13
Marcella 13
Shriek 12
Hound 11
Orla 6
Trask 5
Drimmle 4

Oh yeah, she's got Dodge though: (1d100)[90] vs TN 34

Nope, 2 damage it is.

I have updated Marcella's character sheet. Down to 8/10 wounds. The bomb is officially been turned into an actual dud. Marcella would probably know this intuitively. She is down to 1FP

[Bennosuke]

Rolling attack for Father Milo (1d100)[46] and damage (1d10)[10]

Rolling dodge for Shriek.

[Bennosuke]

@Banana: I think your use of Soul Killer here raises a major flaw in our adaptation of the modified psychic rules. Soul Killer is already a relatively overpowered skill, but this really shows how the adapted psycher rules need some reworking to be compatible with how the old powers are written. I'll let you keep your rolls, but I want to discuss this, because by changing the rules we have essentially made Marcella too powerful and this primarily comes down to overbleed.

All DH1E powers are written with overbleed being relative to a TN, in which the psyker is rolling a number of d10 to get above the threshold number. For example Soul Killer has a Threshold of 25. If Marcella rolled a 5 on each D10, she would need 5 dice to meet the threshold, and an additional 2 dice to get 10 of overbleed. The number of D10 would be based on Marcella's psy rating (4) and she'd add her WP (5). While comparing this to making a basic WP roll with all her bonuses vs. TN 90 makes it obvious how much easier it is to activate, an overbleed of 10 is therefore that much easier to reach. I'm not necessarily opposed to making it easier to activate the power, but with prior rules, Marcella would barely be able to activate this power, but against a TN of 90, not only can she activate it, she is highly likely to produce a large number of shards.

I don't want to stop everything for everyone, but would like to take the opportunity to discuss this, because otherwise, I think we broke the game. I think we need a way to both factor a power's Threshold into Marcella's target number when rolling a 1d100, and also discuss a fairer way to account for overbleed.

[BananaPhone]

Hmm it's fair enough. There's a Dark Heresy to Rogue Trader psychic powers conversion sheet that suggests the maximum overbleed is the psykers Will bonus times the Psy Rating they used for the power - what about something like that? So in this case the maximum overbleed would be 20? (5 will bonus times 4 psy rating)

I think it's a fan conversion sheet (though it looks professionally done), so it's a homebrew rule, but would that be a good limit?

[Bennosuke]

I'd suggest finding a way to take the old threshold into account. Something like for every 5 points the power's threshold goes above 10, you take a -10 on your number to hit for the WP test. Then for overbleed, 5 points of overbleed would be beating your TN by 10.

So for this last power, Marcella would have a -15 to her TN going from 80 to 75. She rolls a 7, which would be like a traditional overbleed of 30, giving her a total of 4 shards. She still rolled well, and gets a lot out of the power, but is harder to activate, and she doesn't way over activate the power.

EDIT: The other thought would be going back to the old rules but trying to implement the fettered/unfettered rules to that system.

[BananaPhone]

I'd suggest finding a way to take the old threshold into account. Something like for every 5 points the power's threshold goes above 10, you take a -10 on your number to hit for the WP test. Then for overbleed, 5 points of overbleed would be beating your TN by 10.

So for this last power, Marcella would have a -15 to her TN going from 80 to 75. She rolls a 7, which would be like a traditional overbleed of 30, giving her a total of 4 shards. She still rolled well, and gets a lot out of the power, but is harder to activate, and she doesn't way over activate the power.

I'm cool with that as an implementation.

I think one of the main impetus behind using the Rogue Trader system was how easy it was to generate Warp Phenomena. Roll a single 9 and the party is in trouble, and for a bit there she was rolling them constantly. So in the current method we're using, there's still 1/10 chance of a
Warp Phenomena, rather than 1/10 chance per die.

I'm fine with the cap proposed. Keeps Warp Nasty at 1/10 chance, she's still useful to the party and isn't a liability.

[Bennosuke]

Cool. It will complicate rolling but may make things fairer. However, I want to invite other players to weigh in if that is okay. Does anyone else have any thoughts before we "reset" these rules? Hopefully won't delay things too much longer.

[Haval]

Seems fair. I think reducing Marcella's swiss army knife potential is probably better in the long run.

[Bennosuke]

So I'll post updated versions of the rules here, and would like at least one more player's input:



A sanctioned psyker can choose to activate any of his Minor or Discipline powers in one of three ways: Fettered, Unfettered, or Push. Rather than rolling a group of d10 equal to their psy rating, the Psyker makes a Focus Power action (length of action or type of action determined by that specific power).

For a Fettered Power, the character halves their Psy rating and compares this to the PT. If this number is greater than the PT the power is activated. There is no risk of Psychic Phenomenon.

For an Unfettered activation, the character rolls 1d100 against their WP + 5x Psyrating -(10 for every 5 points the PT is >10). If they roll a "double number" (ie 44, 55 ect) this activates a psychic phenomenon. Overbleed is calculated as every 10 by which the TN is beaten an overbleed of 5 occurs

For a Push activation, the character rolls as they would for Unfettered, but can choose to add additional levels to the Psy rating up to +3. However, a Push activation always activates Psychic Phenomenon, and will at +5 per "level pushed" to their phenomenon roll likely invoking a more dangerous phenomenon.

Anything that increase a Power Threshold in Dark Heresy, decreases Psy Rating in Rogue Trader. A rough guideline is that for every 4 points of increase in Threshold, lower the psy rating by 1.'

Talents or other abilities that allow a bonus to Power Rolls (such as Discipline Focus) instead add to Focus Power tests. Each +1 bonus to a Power Roll translates to +5 to the Focus Power Test.

[BananaPhone]

If I could be cheeky enough to suggest, if the current rolls from marc/soul killer stand and we've updated the psi power section, while waiting for either Rax or Wyn to weigh in, we could unpause that Play button .

[Wyndeward]

To be brutally honest, I don't think I am qualified to offer much of an opinion -- haven't had much experience with the psychic rules.

That having been said, what you have written on the proposed changes makes sense to me thus far, Bennosuke.

[rax]

I haven't looked at the psychic power rules for a long time. I can take a gander tomorrow if you feel you need more input.

Edit: Looks like a heady mix of DH and RT rules. A bit messy, but I have no genuine complaints about them.

[Bennosuke]

Okay. Thank you for the feedback everyone. I'll make the rules official. And apologies for the long delay. This was my anniversary weekend and along with trying t celebrate, travel was all messed up, which sapped up most all of my time and energy. I am updating the rules.

Marcella's use of the power changes thusly: WP + 5x Psyrating -(10 for every 5 points the PT is >10)

TN is changed to 55 + (5x4) -(30) + 5 for psy focus= 55+25-30=50. She rolls 07. Beaten by a factor of 4, for 20 overbleed. Marcella gets 3 splinters. Using Marcella's first three rolls, that 16, 14, and 11 damage.

I think this has proven a relative success. At TN 25, that's like Marcella rolling 45 or more, which would have to be a great roll on a good handfull of d10s.

@Banana: With the following information, do you want to redistribute how you use your shards?

Sorry to keep things delayed everyone. Thank you for the patience.

[BananaPhone]

Allg mate I hope you had a great time with the missus .


Wouldn't that be 4 shards because she gets +10 to Telepathy powers from Discipline Focus (Telepathy) ? No, because that would give Overbleed 25, not enough for 3 extra shards.

She'll put the first one on Shriek (16 damage) and the second two on fat man (14 then 11 damage).

For iterations/ease sake, Soul Killer is Explosive damage and is targeted to the Head and Body.

[BananaPhone]

Hey @Rax, just an idea.

Spoiler: Group Operation Fund

Show

We're in the home of one of the top managers of the Banking Guild in this Hive. That's some serious economic power, influence, knowledge and connections.

With Hounds administrative and medical skills, combined with Marc's medical, chemistry (she's a trained chemist, she's a little nerd) and trade skills, what do you think of the idea of them both establishing a sort of biomedical/biochemical trade outfit using funds fronted by Drimmle and his connections/influence?

The thrones generated from this wouldn't be for personal enrichment. Instead, the thrones would go to a "party fund", an "operations account", that we, the whole group, use to do things like bribe people, hire goons, hire bounty hunters to bring in suspects (thus freeing our time to do other things), buy mission-necessary equipment, give a character some thrones to cover a weapon or ammo if they can't fully afford it etc I mean you could make the argument that it'd bump both of them to the 'trading class', so their monthly income would increase, but the purpose of doing this would be to create a slush fund for the group to use in its field work as needed.

Kinda like the Iran-Contra affair except we're the Contras!

Ideally it'd be something lightweight that runs in the background so it doesn't take up too much of our time. (or give Benn a headache)

What do you think?

[bramblefoot]

alright, for further notice on such things, please say you're angry at my character, not me. i cannot tell the difference between anger at characters, and actual player anger

just a heads up

[Bennosuke]

Hey all, thank you for the patience. Post to come today. Promise

[rax]

Hey @Rax, just an idea.

Spoiler: Group Operation Fund

Show

We're in the home of one of the top managers of the Banking Guild in this Hive. That's some serious economic power, influence, knowledge and connections.

With Hounds administrative and medical skills, combined with Marc's medical, chemistry (she's a trained chemist, she's a little nerd) and trade skills, what do you think of the idea of them both establishing a sort of biomedical/biochemical trade outfit using funds fronted by Drimmle and his connections/influence?

The thrones generated from this wouldn't be for personal enrichment. Instead, the thrones would go to a "party fund", an "operations account", that we, the whole group, use to do things like bribe people, hire goons, hire bounty hunters to bring in suspects (thus freeing our time to do other things), buy mission-necessary equipment, give a character some thrones to cover a weapon or ammo if they can't fully afford it etc I mean you could make the argument that it'd bump both of them to the 'trading class', so their monthly income would increase, but the purpose of doing this would be to create a slush fund for the group to use in its field work as needed.

Kinda like the Iran-Contra affair except we're the Contras!

Ideally it'd be something lightweight that runs in the background so it doesn't take up too much of our time. (or give Benn a headache)

What do you think?

I think it could be fun to try something like that, but a lot depends on the outcome of this fight, the timeframe Bennosuke is envisioning for this investigation, and just how "lightweight" he would deem such an operation to be.

I.e. will we actually have the time and resources to run such a thing while pursuing the investigation? I feel that's Bennosuke's call.

alright, for further notice on such things, please say you're angry at my character, not me. i cannot tell the difference between anger at characters, and actual player anger

just a heads up

Hound is angry at Milo. IC he would be fully prepared to execute Milo for being a liability, but he won't do that without the Interrogator's say-so (i.e. I don't do PvP unless cleared by the GM).

I'm annoyed (not angry or enraged or anything like that) that you've chosen to play Milo as a loose cannon who can't adapt to the requirements of the mission. Going by how you've portrayed Milo you've certainly been building towards something like this, so his actions aren't out of character. However, the choice to have Milo take the actions he did was wholly in your hands, and therefore the solution is also in your hands. My preference would be that you either tone down Milo's explosive nature or retire him and bring in a character more suited to the demands of the game. If you can do that, there'll be no hard feelings on my part.

[Bennosuke]

Rolling attack for shriek who needs a half action to stand (1d100)[57] and damage just in case (1d10)[6]

Rolling parry for Milo just in case roll]1d100[/roll]

[Bennosuke]

Great. Trying that roll again (1d100)[1]

[Bennosuke]

Father Drimmle's attack (1d100)[34] and damage (1d10)[7]

[Wyndeward]

I think it could be fun to try something like that, but a lot depends on the outcome of this fight, the timeframe Bennosuke is envisioning for this investigation, and just how "lightweight" he would deem such an operation to be.

I.e. will we actually have the time and resources to run such a thing while pursuing the investigation? I feel that's Bennosuke's call.

Hound is angry at Milo. IC he would be fully prepared to execute Milo for being a liability, but he won't do that without the Interrogator's say-so (i.e. I don't do PvP unless cleared by the GM).

I'm annoyed (not angry or enraged or anything like that) that you've chosen to play Milo as a loose cannon who can't adapt to the requirements of the mission. Going by how you've portrayed Milo you've certainly been building towards something like this, so his actions aren't out of character. However, the choice to have Milo take the actions he did was wholly in your hands, and therefore the solution is also in your hands. My preference would be that you either tone down Milo's explosive nature or retire him and bring in a character more suited to the demands of the game. If you can do that, there'll be no hard feelings on my part.

What he said. Arl is more than a little pissed, but Wyndeward is just a little perplexed, if that makes sense.

[BananaPhone]

Trying le dodge: (1d100)[77] vs TN 34

Ugh, come'on girl. Marc takes another 3 damage.

[BananaPhone]

Marc's getting shot to bits, so she's going to use a Fettered power roll (the one that doesn't provoke warp phenomena) to cast Distort Vision: (1d100)[56] vs TN 70 (55 will + 10 psy rating + 5 psy focus)

Cast.

Distort Vision is a "Free Action", but thanks to that stupid regrettable Errata rule that you can only cast 1 psychic power a turn, Marc is now going to use both move actions to get underneath the stair-case upon which Drimmle is standing. (taking her out of his LoS)

Because she's Running and has Distort Vision, anyone shooting at her is at -50 to hit this round.

[BananaPhone]

alright, for further notice on such things, please say you're angry at my character, not me. i cannot tell the difference between anger at characters, and actual player anger

just a heads up

Yeah, Marcs reaction to Milo IC will be...less than positive lol. She's normally a sweet and upbeat girl, but his actions have caused this mess and she's been shot twice because of it. She'll be furious with him too.

OOC, me, BananaPhone, doesn't harbor ill-feelings , much the way you mentioned a few months ago that Milos trashtalking on the train to Marc was strictly IC and not meant to convey OOC thoughts and feelings. Pretty much assume that always from me, that my IC actions are how I think my character would behave, but that doesn't reflect my OOC sentiments towards another player.

[bramblefoot]

idk if im having fun anymore. should i or shouldnt i drop out

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[BananaPhone]

None of us have hard feelings towards you OOC mate . Making Milo less of a gung ho, shoot first kinda guy would about solve the IC problem of him being a bit of a loose cannon that's gotten us into a deadly situation.