El Goonish Shive X: Please Don't Feel Bad

[Kish]

Oh my god.

If Dan is actually doing what it looks like he's doing, I will eat every critical thing I've said about the comic going too easy on its characters. So far this is awesome.

[Errorname]

To rephrase: Not will she, can she.

She'll try. She might not be as effective a mentor, but she'll try.

[Yuki Akuma]

Edit: Oh, and she almost certainly forgot how to undo the magic dam. Obviously.

Well, that's fine, because it seems someone already took care of it.

[Silly Name]

Edit: Oh, and she almost certainly forgot how to undo the magic dam. Obviously.

it's a matter of power, not just knowledge, right?

It is my understaning that Immortals lose a lot of power when they reset, and have to accumulate it back up as they age. And Pandora was frighteningly powerful, as she was centuries older than even the oldest immortals. "Hope" may have the magical knowledge of Pandora, but be unable to act on it.

Also, Pandora made sure her reset would allow her to be the same person and mantain her connections to Adrian, Tedd, Sarah and everyone else, but considering her reset was forced, I wonder how "properly" it went, which apparently influences how powerful a newly-reset immortal is.

[tyckspoon]

Well, that's fine, because it seems someone already took care of it.

It resolved itself - the flow of magic just adjusted around the blockage and found a new equilibrium place to go through. Which conveniently happens to be at the local college most of the cast is going to wind up at, thus ensuring they still have ready access to the greater-than-normal supply of ambient magic that they're used to and nobody will have to be inconvenienced by not being able to use their spells/magical trinkets whenever they want >.>

it's a matter of power, not just knowledge, right?

I vaguely recall a mention that most immortals or even mortal wizards could undo it, if they knew what Pandora had done to create it in the first place, but it needed the dammed up pool of magic to be drained first in order to do so safely. Hence Sarah's mark-spell which uses up magic much faster than the replenishment rate.

Honestly, I'm wondering if she's going to be able to uphold her vow to help Sarah Awaken anytime soon.

Between having a mark-given spell to practice with and regularly using magic by way of Tedd's various wands and magic-related trinkets I don't think Sarah is going to need much help - while there are presumably other techniques to gain access to magic that might have worked, 'have a spell and use it a lot to train your own magic capacity' is already known as a means of Awakening. Would bet the only piece Sarah is missing is learning to use as much of her own energy as possible to cast in order to start training her personal level instead of leaning on the background magic, and Kevin can explain that/has made Tedd aware that that is a thing you can do to incorporate into their own experiments.

[Rater202]

Between having a mark-given spell to practice with and regularly using magic by way of Tedd's various wands and magic-related trinkets I don't think Sarah is going to need much help - while there are presumably other techniques to gain access to magic that might have worked, 'have a spell and use it a lot to train your own magic capacity' is already known as a means of Awakening. Would bet the only piece Sarah is missing is learning to use as much of her own energy as possible to cast in order to start training her personal level instead of leaning on the background magic, and Kevin can explain that/has made Tedd aware that that is a thing you can do to incorporate into their own experiments.

Yeah, but that's not Pandora helping her Awaken, and Vows inflict a cripplin barrage of intrusive thoughts if you don't fulfill them.

She needs to help Sarah Awaken or she's going to be regularly hit with that and if Sarah awakens without Pandora then it'll become impossible for Pandora to resolve the Vow.

Of particular concern is that later in the scene, Pandora basically says that she considered her vow to encompass training Sarah as an apprentice, which she might not be able to do because she might not remember what sh was going to teach her and, as demonstrated by Mr. Verres and Voltaire, the interpretation of the Immortal matters more than the wording regarding the Vow.

[Radar]

I vaguely recall a mention that most immortals or even mortal wizards could undo it, if they knew what Pandora had done to create it in the first place, but it needed the dammed up pool of magic to be drained first in order to do so safely. Hence Sarah's mark-spell which uses up magic much faster than the replenishment rate.

Before the change in Immortal rules, they would not be able to remove the dam as they were limited to guidance and empowerment. As Pandora explained, building a dam was simply empowering the area, dismantling it required outside help as it would be depowering Moperville.

[Manga Shoggoth]

it's a matter of power, not just knowledge, right?

It is my understaning that Immortals lose a lot of power when they reset, and have to accumulate it back up as they age. And Pandora was frighteningly powerful, as she was centuries older than even the oldest immortals. "Hope" may have the magical knowledge of Pandora, but be unable to act on it.

Also, Pandora made sure her reset would allow her to be the same person and mantain her connections to Adrian, Tedd, Sarah and everyone else, but considering her reset was forced, I wonder how "properly" it went, which apparently influences how powerful a newly-reset immortal is.

This being the same Pandora who, while being reset, forcibly took control of the spell and used the excessive power to force every immortal to materialise and cast an abomination-killing spell? I think she was more in control than you might think.

Also, Immortals are always less powerful after reset - what a forced reset does is scramble their memories (which is what happened to Helana and Demetrius). That is more likley to be what has happened to her - she may have been protected from the effect somewhat, but I don't think she got away totally unscathed.

[Errorname]

Yeah, but that's not Pandora helping her Awaken, and Vows inflict a cripplin barrage of intrusive thoughts if you don't fulfill them.

She needs to help Sarah Awaken or she's going to be regularly hit with that and if Sarah awakens without Pandora then it'll become impossible for Pandora to resolve the Vow.

Right, but 'help' can be a lot of things. Pandora might not have meant help in the sense of an encouraging friend who's also pretty clueless rather than a wise mentor, but that's still help.

[Anonymouswizard]

Right, but 'help' can be a lot of things. Pandora might not have meant help in the sense of an encouraging friend who's also pretty clueless rather than a wise mentor, but that's still help.

Part of me wonders if Zeus is having trouble because he's half-arsing the vow instead of giving it his all. He could have been a LOT more direct telling Susan about the rules for immortals changing but he feared reprisal more than fulfilling the vow.

We also shouldn't discount Adrian, who might be very willing to help a sane version of his mum (mom? Mam?). While it's not a route to raw power it's possible he can help Hope regain her skills quickly, which would help her mentor Tedd and Sarah.

As a side note, I assumed what Pandora tried to pass on that most Immortals don't is her emotional connections rather than her personality.

[Gnoman]

On the NP side, the "Elliot's girlfriend has a crush on Elliot's ex-girlfriend who is now dating Elliot's (usually)opposite-gender magic clone" element is getting a little weird.

[Yuki Akuma]

On the NP side, the "Elliot's girlfriend has a crush on Elliot's ex-girlfriend who is now dating Elliot's (usually)opposite-gender magic clone" element is getting a little weird.

More or less everyone in the main cast has a crush on everyone else in the main cast who even remotely matches their gender preference, honestly. She's just trying to fit in.

[Gez]

On the NP side, the "Elliot's girlfriend has a crush on Elliot's ex-girlfriend who is now dating Elliot's (usually)opposite-gender magic clone" element is getting a little weird.

Kind of felt that way about how hard Dan was pushing the whole Elliot-Tedd shipping in the previous chapter.

[Yuki Akuma]

Kind of felt that way about how hard Dan was pushing the whole Elliot-Tedd shipping in the previous chapter.

That's been a thing ever since we met Alternate Universe Tedd.

[Rater202]

Remember: Part of the reason why Elliot is with Ashley is because she's similar enough to Tedd that his conscious mind passed her over a naughty dream he had involving girl Tedd.

We have in fact seen multiple AUs were Tedd and Elliot's counterparts are together romantically when of compatible genders and sexualities.

In this case however, I'm not 100% sure that Ashley is attracted to Nanase specifically so much as she's aroused by the situation.

I'm honestly still expecting this comic to end with most of the main cast in some kind of polycule, but I'd expect that Ashley would be more attached to Grace than Nanase.

[Anonymouswizard]

As long as they don't have more than one week at college before half the cast wakes up naked in the same bed* I'm completely fine with EGS becoming a poly comic.

* I'm betting either Teddy's or Elliot's, at which point Grace walks in also not wearing clothes.

[Yuki Akuma]

I don't think Dan woud ever draw something that suggestive in the main comic.

Maybe on his alternate Twitter account or Patreon or wherever else.

[Fyraltari]

As long as they don't have more than one week at college

I agree, more than five real-world years would be a lot.

[Anonymouswizard]

I agree, more than five real-world years would be a lot.

Three, the storyline will skip from Wednesday to Saturday.

[Fyraltari]

I still ship it.

[WanderingMist]

Remember: Part of the reason why Elliot is with Ashley is because she's similar enough to Tedd that his conscious mind passed her over a naughty dream he had involving girl Tedd.

We have in fact seen multiple AUs were Tedd and Elliot's counterparts are together romantically when of compatible genders and sexualities.

In this case however, I'm not 100% sure that Ashley is attracted to Nanase specifically so much as she's aroused by the situation.

I'm honestly still expecting this comic to end with most of the main cast in some kind of polycule, but I'd expect that Ashley would be more attached to Grace than Nanase.

You're expecting the comic to end?

[Anonymouswizard]

You're expecting the comic to end?

Surely it depends on how traumatised Dan's (theoretical?) kids are when he dies?

Unless we discover immortality within his lifetime, in which case the comic will outlive the universe

[Yuki Akuma]

You're expecting the comic to end?

Webcomic artists are notoriously mortal.

I give El Goonish Shive maybe fifty, sixty more years.

[Radar]

Webcomic artists are notoriously mortal.

I give El Goonish Shive maybe fifty, sixty more years.

So... the characters have some chance of graduating from college?

[Errorname]

In a comic with some deeply weird stuff the shockingly significant fable pastiche might be the weirdest. I didn't think it was very good and I hope this arc doesn't linger on it, but I do have to respect just how insane it was.

[Fyraltari]

Exposition truly is an artform that Dan knows of.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Mist, the dreamwalking unicorn...

Oh dear. This is going to go so badly for her, isn't it?

[Fyraltari]

Exposition truly is an artform that Dan knows of.

This is going to go so badly for her, isn't it?

Perhaps I'm being too harsh on Dan...

[DavidSh]

Perhaps I'm being too harsh on Dan...

It's curious how someone would notice the name "Mist", and not notice the pronouns listed "(He / Him)", since they are in the same information box.

[Yuki Akuma]

Wow, that is one pretty boy. Like Noah. Is that just how Seyunolu look?

I mean, I'm not complaining...