Domino Quartz's Delightfully Quaint Random Banter Thread #248

[Peelee]

Ah, a living positive feedback loop! Whatever could go wrong?





Meh, no need for that, even. All you need is a Silver Dragon that works as advertised. Foolishly trusting, Mr. Lee has revealed his big weakness to us long ago: temperatures below 30 °C are anathema to him. You mail him to Zod, and he's toast.

"foolishly trusting" would be a good descriptor of anyone who thinks i cannot function in the cold, yes.

"Oh please, Mr. Lee is my father. My friends call me Pee."

Spoiler: THAT'S IT!

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A STRICTLY THEORETICAL QUESTION to the moderating staff: would I risk getting hit by a breath weapon if I admitted I laughed?

See above.

[Anonymouswizard]

Well, like I often find myself saying in vtube adjacent spaces: I'm just a regular human person.

^{[citation needed}

Honestly my biggest issues with Rater's 'ultimate life forms' is that they seem to lack ways to reproduce. Which is all well and good until a weakness gets written in and suddenly having your species continue past your death becomes very important. Being able to survive disintegration doesn't mean absolutely nothing can kill you.

ETA: ah Peelee, but function for how long? Your agency should ship you to Scotland for a month just so you can learn to function in the cold and wet for more than 83 minutes.

[Peelee]

ah Peelee, but function for how long? Your agency should ship you to Scotland for a month just so you can learn to function in the cold and wet for more than 83 minutes.

A.) i cna function indefinitely in the cold. I would not be happy about it, is all. Which, really, is more of a weakness for anyone i meet in such circumstances.
2.) Isn't the US east coast where you Brits came and then died en masse in the winters?

[Anonymouswizard]

A.) i cna function indefinitely in the cold. I would not be happy about it, is all. Which, really, is more of a weakness for anyone i meet in such circumstances.
2.) Isn't the US east coast where you Brits came and then died en masse in the winters?

1) at least until you get washed away by the downpour.
B) the English did, the Scottish would have pulled out the sun loungers.

[Keltest]

1) at least until you get washed away by the downpour.
B) the English did, the Scottish would have pulled out the sun loungers.

Scotland doesnt have the sun, I refuse to believe they would have sun loungers to pull out.

[Peelee]

1) at least until you get washed away by the downpour.
B) the English did, the Scottish would have pulled out the sun loungers.

1.) not only can i swim, but i love to swim. My normal post-workout cool down is a mile swim, which isn't terribly helpful for my exercise routine except that i just plain want to do it. Unlike literally every other exercise i do, which all suck.

Bring on the water.

2.)Listen, I'm gonna lay my cards on the table here regarding Scotland:

Spoiler: If the doors opened to me, i would join in.

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[Anonymouswizard]

Scotland doesnt have the sun, I refuse to believe they would have sun loungers to pull out.

True, but all the English people who died in the first half of winter did

[Keltest]

2.)Listen, I'm gonna lay my cards on the table here regarding Scotland:

Spoiler: If the doors opened to me, i would join in.

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I'm with you friend. My ancestry is unfortunately enough generations away that I would have to immigrate the conventional way, so its unlikely to happen unless I win a lot of money somewhere, but visiting the isles and maybe tracking down the distant cousins is absolutely something on my bucket list.

[Rater202]

Honestly my biggest issues with Rater's 'ultimate life forms' is that they seem to lack ways to reproduce. Which is all well and good until a weakness gets written in and suddenly having your species continue past your death becomes very important. Being able to survive disintegration doesn't mean absolutely nothing can kill you.

*Insert sex=useless joke here*

Given that the target example in this case uses a symbiote as a base template and symbiotes have both the ability to replicate themselves and will spontaneously spawn a brand new, stronger symbiote* in response to major threats in eh near future, that's not an issue.

*Venom spawned Carnage when Thanos was gathering the Infinity Stones and Sleeper before the return of Tel-Kar, it's first host, who was fully prepared to force it to commit multiple genocides. Carnage spawned Toxin when the during Avengers disassembled, Scorn in the lead-up to the Chaos War, and Raze and it's unnamed sibling around the time of Civil War II. Dylan Brock, who strictly speaking is more Venom's son than Eddie's, was also born at a time that he'd be old enough to help fight against Knull when the King in Black arrived on Earth and the unique circumstances of his conception are brought up at the same time this was. There's no confirmed corresponding event for the Life Foundation Symbiotes, but they were extracted and gestated artificially rather than being natural births so they're an exception.

[Anonymouswizard]

*Insert sex=useless joke here*

I mean, if it was truly ultimate it wouldn't need the benefits sexual reproduction brings

More seriously I find the idea of the perfect/ultimate life form boring. At the end of the day I'd rather that the pinnacle of life be as flawed and problematic as the rest, even if that has to be a side effect of their own supposed perfection (such as the implications in the Alien movies that the species is efficient enough to destroy the biospheres it gets any kind of foothold in).

That is I'd rather the local eldritch abominations be Time Lords than unending void dragons. Heck, even Rassilon placing himself above their fellow Time Lords just gave them a boatload of new issues.

[Peelee]

More seriously I find the idea of the perfect/ultimate life form boring.

Unsurprising - one person's power fantasies are usually not other peoples' power fantasies. For example, vew, if any, other people have silver dragon avatars on these boards.

[Metastachydium]

Unsurprising - one person's power fantasies are usually not other peoples' power fantasies. For example, vew, if any, other people have silver dragon avatars on these boards.

You being you is not a power fantasy, I believe.

[Rater202]

I mean, if it was truly ultimate it wouldn't need the benefits sexual reproduction brings

You just said tha leaving out reproduction is a flaw, which is it

More seriously I find the idea of the perfect/ultimate life form boring. At the end of the day I'd rather that the pinnacle of life be as flawed and problematic as the rest, even if that has to be a side effect of their own supposed perfection (such as the implications in the Alien movies that the species is efficient enough to destroy the biospheres it gets any kind of foothold in).

Given that Xenomorphs are, depending on continuity, either artificially engineered as a bioweapon by the Engineers or else were crossbred from multiple baseline species by a malfunctioning android because he was fed up with other forms of life. Either way, their biosphere-destroying/corrupting properties would seem to mean that they're working as intended.

Though personally, I'd not classify them as "perfect" despite the insistence of the films. They might be without structural flaws in their biology, but their reproductive cycle is incredibly complicated and dependent entirely on external organisms. Additionally, while Xenos are depicted with level of superhuman strength, toughness, and regeneration that vary form individual to individual, it's pretty consistent that they will die to a well-trained human with a military-grade firearm unless said human is outnumbered or caught by surprise which makes them rather inefficient as weapons. If you know what you're doing they're honestly less of a threat than ordinary guerillas.

Additionally, while the xenos can absorb DNA from the host while gestating in order to better adapt themselves to an environment we know that such traits aren't passed down to offspring or even expressed by Queens and some examples seem to stagnate n their maturity such as the quadropedal "runners" spawned from dogs and bovines. As a species, the xenomorphs always regress to their baseline template rather than undergo generational improvement: They're stagnant.

Looking forward to Hickman's Aliens vs Avengers coming, though. Really wanna see what he pulls out of his ass to make that conflict not last longer than it takes Captain Marvel to glare at them or Thor to call down a storm.

Anyway: You're thinking about it the wrong way. The "flaws" that are interesting are personality traits that don't 100% correlate to biology in the first place.

Beyond that people argue that perfection is boring because once you're perfect there;'s nowhere else to go so you stagnate but... That's a flawed understanding of perfection. Perfection changes from moment to moment. Different times, situations, and environments each recall a different set of advantageous traits.

What's perfect for one will get you killed in another.

Thus, the "ultimate life form" would be an apex predator with an indefinite lifespan who can rapidly grow, adapt, and change to thrive in any given scenario, rather than one who is "already" perfect with no further ability to grow which thus dies when circumstances change to something they failed to predict.

[Peelee]

You being you is not a power fantasy, I believe.

Imean, well, for other people, being me can be.

Thus, the "ultimate life form" would be an apex predator

Being an apex predator seems needless.

[Metastachydium]

Imean, well, for other people, being me can be.

I prefer being a FLOWER (but thinking I'm funny would be nice to pull someday, so…).

[Batcathat]

Looking forward to Hickman's Aliens vs Avengers coming, though. Really wanna see what he pulls out of his ass to make that conflict not last longer than it takes Captain Marvel to glare at them or Thor to call down a storm.

That reminds me of the Superman vs. Aliens comic I read when I was a kid, where lack of sunlight (possibly in combination with kryptonite or something like that? It's been decades since I read it) just happened to bring Superman to a power level where he could fight multiple xenomorphs but not just curb-stomp them. That said, I remember finding it surprisingly entertaining (which is admittedly a rather low bar, considering I don't like Superman much and think the Alien franchise is alright at best, but still).

[Peelee]

I prefer being a FLOWER (but thinking I'm funny would be nice to pull someday, so…).

Then you're not one of those people.

[Rater202]

Being an apex predator seems needless.

Do you have another term for "no natural predators?"

[Anonymouswizard]

You being you is not a power fantasy, I believe.

Look, it's definitely a power fantasy for me, I'd abuse mod powers five seconds before I got them. Then get arrested when I tried to start my hoard by robbing a bank.

Do you have another term for "no natural predators?"

'No natural predators' seems to fit. 'Apex predator' carries the implication of being a predator, and so is a subset of the former group.

[Peelee]

Do you have another term for "no natural predators?"

Sure. "no natural predators".

Elephants aren't apex predators, but have no natural predators. Same for rhinos. And hippos. And galapagos turtles. Manatees.

Of course, manatees are a strong contender for ultimate life form. They seem pretty happy.

[Rater202]

And hippos.

Hippos are honorary apex predators.

Steve Irwin was afraid of them. Given that he'd just walk up and touch big cats, crocodilians, venmous snakes, and the like without fear, that's very telling.

Beyond that... I mean, while the average hippo eats a ostly plant based diet they are omnivorous and have been onversed eating animals. Hippos have also been observed attacking and killing other animals, and its' logical to conclude that if a hippo bites a crocodile the **** in half that it might come back to eat the carcass later if it's hungry enough so they do techncially meet the loose definition of a predator, so...

[Keltest]

Hippos are honorary apex predators.

Steve Irwin was afraid of them. Given that he'd just walk up and touch big cats, crocodilians, venmous snakes, and the like without fear, that's very telling.

Beyond that... I mean, while the average hippo eats a ostly plant based diet they are omnivorous and have been onversed eating animals. Hippos have also been observed attacking and killing other animals, and its' logical to conclude that if a hippo bites a crocodile the **** in half that it might come back to eat the carcass later if it's hungry enough so they do techncially meet the loose definition of a predator, so...

Theres a difference between being a predator and being able to kill something that attacks you or otherwise antagonizes you.

[Rater202]

Theres a difference between being a predator and being able to kill something that attacks you or otherwise antagonizes you.

they don't always wait to be antagonized, and when there's a non-zero chance of eating the thing you killed later the lines are murky.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah not every herbivore is like... an obligate "must eat only fruit or die" herbivore. Omnivorous behavior pops up where need, opportunity, accident, and free meat exist, after all. That, plus the fact that herbivores are by necessity more fierce and more prone to fighting than predators, means things like hippos and elephants are gonna **** your **** up worse than any predator if you go in with the idea of being a threat.

That doesn't mean they're like, apex predators, cause that's a very defined term, but it does mean they're a high rung creature in their environment. Hippos aren't indestructible despite how infamously deadly they actually are, and no amount of stompies is going to stop the occasional crocogator from eating one. Elephants are a bit more "apex" in that regard and even then they do get downed and eaten as well. It's how things go and all that.

All this is to say; "apex predator" is a very defined term, but even that isn't like, fully concrete- but it still doesn't really apply to like, hard to fell herbivores, because the operative word is "predator" here.

(to elaborate the "accident" part about; many deer and horses do end up chomping down on smaller prey species because they're just kinda in the way of their eating. Deer especially doesn't mind this since they can actually process meat fairly well, given a big aspect of their existence is devouring the bloody vellum of their own discarded horns.)

[Peelee]

Hippos are honorary apex predators.

Steve Irwin was afraid of them. Given that he'd just walk up and touch big cats, crocodilians, venmous snakes, and the like without fear, that's very telling.

Beyond that... I mean, while the average hippo eats a ostly plant based diet they are omnivorous and have been onversed eating animals. Hippos have also been observed attacking and killing other animals, and its' logical to conclude that if a hippo bites a crocodile the **** in half that it might come back to eat the carcass later if it's hungry enough so they do techncially meet the loose definition of a predator, so...

Imean, none of that makes it an apex predator. They just make thr hippo a fierce animal. If you want to argue "Steve Irwin was afraid of it" as a criteria for apex predator, you're certainly free to lobby the general scientific community for that.

Which is all just a diversion from the fact that "no natural predators" doesn't necessitate "apex predator". You're creating your own dream ultimate life form. Why make it a predator if you don't need it to be? Again, manatees.

[Anonymouswizard]

Theres a difference between being a predator and being able to kill something that attacks you or otherwise antagonizes you.

LIES! Giraffes are clearly predators.

You just don't notice because they consider plasma cannons and stealth fields unsportsmanlike.

[Rater202]

Why make it a predator if you don't need it to be? Again, manatees.

Well for one, predatory behavior correlates with intelligence. For two, IRL the only confirmed sapient life form to exit is an omnivorous apex predator.

LIES! Giraffes are clearly predators.

You just don't notice because they consider plasma cannons and stealth fields unsportsmanlike.

Spoiler

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[Bartmanhomer]

Hey everyone. I post Chapter 8 of my D&D: The Dragoon Family in Wattpad today.

Just to chime in the conversation: I know that sharks are predators.

[Anonymouswizard]

Hey everyone. I post Chapter 8 of my D&D: The Dragoon Family in Wattpad today.

Just to chime in the conversation: I know that sharks are predators.

Just out of interest what makes them dragoons? Because last time I checked D&D still made firearms and optional rule.

[Ionathus]

Of course, manatees are a strong contender for ultimate life form. They seem pretty happy.

Listen, sometimes the key to success is in how you define success As illuminated by esteemed philosopher Thomas Hobbes

If you want to argue "Steve Irwin was afraid of it" as a criteria for apex predator, you're certainly free to lobby the general scientific community for that.

I'm not opposed to animal categorization based on the whims of a trusted few individuals.

"Was Steve Erwin afraid of it?" can replace the food chain.

"How sad does David Attenborough sound when talking about it?" can replace conservation status.

"What random crap does zefrank have to say about this one" can replace taxonomy.

Well for one, predatory behavior correlates with intelligence. For two, IRL the only confirmed sapient life form to exit is an omnivorous apex predator.

Isn't there also something about how big brains cost a lot of energy, and predation/meat-eating is a great way to get those calories "efficiently"? Not that eating meat is efficient big-picture, but it's easier for the individual organism than hours of grazing...