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Thread: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
-
2024-01-22, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Ice-nine is a polymorph of water which instead of melting at 0 °C (32 °F), melts at 45.8 °C (114.4 °F). When ice-nine comes into contact with liquid water below 45.8 °C, it acts as a seed crystal and causes the solidification of the entire body of water, which quickly crystallizes as more ice-nine. As people are mostly water, ice-nine kills nearly instantly when ingested or brought into contact with soft tissues exposed to the bloodstream, such as the eyes or tongue.
Welcome one and all to the Forty-Fourth round of Zinc Saucier challenge!
Here Playgrounders come to test their skill in, so to say, making cupcakes of fish or T-bone steak of green beans.
What exactly do you need to do? To make a build that has the same abilities, look and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!
For this round I brought you a contagious winter frost. I want to ask you Brood Spawn Template from Elder Evils for this round.
Spoiler: Image
Our challengers will have about 1 month to build a complete build up to Effective Character Level 20 using a 32 point buy and all official WotC D&D 3.5 materials (excluding Dragon Magazine, but including any WotC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Rimefire Witch without actually being it.
Entries must be submitted by Sunday, 00:00 (12:00 am) GMT, February 17, 2024. As usual, please submit your entries via private message to the chairman. Extensions are available.
Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.
Judges will then have as many time as they needed to post scores for all dishes.
Contestants will be judged and awarded a score of 1 through 5 in each of 4 categories:- Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc.)
- Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
- Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e. not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavor for power or using flaws)
- Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)
Submission:
To standardize Entries, please use this format when sending it in:
PM: loky1109
Subject: Zinc Saucier 44, Name of your Entry
For revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mail box.
If you have questions about the contest that feel inappropriate to ask in the main thread, please PM me with "Zinc Saucier 44 Questions". Keep in mind that I am not a judge, and so questions about how acceptable X or Y might be to judges will get (at best) a guess on my part due to my somewhat limited familiarity with the competitive community.
Recommended style is as the spoilers below. The end of the second post has a link to a Google Sheet that helps show the layout, if that will help you with planning out your build.
SpoilerNAME OF ENTRY
Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features 1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 7th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 8th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 9th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 10th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 11th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 12th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 13th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 14th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 15th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 16th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 17th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 18th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 19th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities 20th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
Code immediately below (spoiler).Spoiler[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[td][B]Level[/B][/td]
[td][B]Class[/B][/td]
[td][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/td]
[td][B]Fort Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Ref Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Will Save[/B][/td]
[td][B]Skills[/B][/td]
[td][B]Feats[/B][/td]
[td][B]Class Features[/B][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]New Class Level[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]+x[/td]
[td]Skills[/td]
[td]Feats[/td]
[td]New Class Abilities[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)SpoilerSpells per Day/Spells Known
Code immediately below (spoiler)Level 0lvl 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1st - - - - - - - - - - 2nd - - - - - - - - - - 3rd - - - - - - - - - - 4th - - - - - - - - - - 5th - - - - - - - - - - 6th - - - - - - - - - - 7th - - - - - - - - - - 8th - - - - - - - - - - 9th - - - - - - - - - - 10th - - - - - - - - - - 11th - - - - - - - - - - 12th - - - - - - - - - - 13th - - - - - - - - - - 14th - - - - - - - - - - 15th - - - - - - - - - - 16th - - - - - - - - - - 17th - - - - - - - - - - 18th - - - - - - - - - - 19th - - - - - - - - - - 20th - - - - - - - - - - Spoiler[B]Spells per Day/Spells Known[/B]
[table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
[tr]
[td][B]Level[/B][/td]
[td][B]0lvl[/B][/td]
[td][B]1st[/B][/td]
[td][B]2nd[/B][/td]
[td][B]3rd[/B][/td]
[td][B]4th[/B][/td]
[td][B]5th[/B][/td]
[td][B]6th[/B][/td]
[td][B]7th[/B][/td]
[td][B]8th[/B][/td]
[td][B]9th[/B][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]1st[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]2nd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3rd[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]4th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]5th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]6th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]7th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]8th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]9th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]10th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]11th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]12th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]13th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]14th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]15th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]16th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]17th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]18th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]19th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]20th[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[td]-[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others. Similarly, please try to refrain from speculating on possible builds too much even if you don't intend to use them yourself.
Spoiler: Previous Challenges- Soulknife
- Bard
- Monk
- Assassin
- Barbarian
- Warlock
- Paladin*
- Warblade
- Pyrokineticist
- Ninja*
- Druid
- True Necromancer
- Dervish
- Whisperknife
- Epic Infiltrator*
- Master of Vipers
- Ranger*
- Flayerspawn Psychic
- Totemist
- Walker in the Waste
- Drunken Master
- Cleric
- Duskblade
- Psibond Agent
- Argent Fist
- Fighter
- Artificier
- Knight
- Spellthief
- Factotum no cooks submitted
- Dragonfire Adept
- Battle Dancer
- Illithid Slayer one cook submitted
- Swashbuckler
- Chameleon
- Dread Necromancer one cook submitted
- Warmage
- Kensai one cook submitted
- Dread Pirate
- Familiar
- Life Eater
- True Dragon
- Rimefire Witch no cooks submitted
*: Classes marked with an asterisk have had their original posts updated to reflect the final results.
This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.Last edited by loky1109; 2024-02-24 at 10:56 AM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
-
2024-01-22, 06:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
- Location
- Moscow
- Gender
Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
FAQ:
Round section.
Q: TBD
Q: How the heck do I even do this?
A: Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to select a combination of race, templates, classes, alternate class features, prestige classes, skills, and feats, meld them into a single character that progresses from ECL 1 to ECL 20, that is as close as possible to the secret ingredient as possible in look, feel, class/race features. How you do it is up to you, I recommend you read previous competitions if you are interested in seeing how others have done it before you. Capture the essence!
Q: Is Dragon Compendium Allowed?
A: Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.
Q: What about 3.0 materials?
A: 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition. Here's a guide to most of what has and hasn't been updated. I strongly dislike how WotC "updated" Master of Chains, Master Samurai and Weapon Master and you are free to use 3.0 version of them. It's specific exception.
NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine #318, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.
Q: Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, Diablo II, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources?
A: The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Both Diablo II books are allowed. Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.
Q: What about online sources in general?
A: If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.
I know at this moment WotC archive is shut down. You can use archive copy currently accessible via the Wayback Machine.
Q: Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana?
A: A few specific things are explicitly acceptable. The elemental/environmental races, spelltouched feats, variant character classes, specialist wizard variants, whirling frenzy, aspect of nature, and racial paragon classes are legal. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten. Use of flaws to take free feats is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category (penalty for use of flaws for some other reasons is up to judges). Traits are -0.5 each. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed. In a similar vein, LA buyoff and fractional BAB are also disallowed. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.
Q: What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean?
A: As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.
However, Leadership may be taken to qualify for another feat or class (such as the Great Captain feat or Legendary Leader prestige class), though a character still doesn't get its usual benefit in those cases. This is to allow characters to access unproblematic material that'd otherwise be made unavailable because of the Leadership ban.
Q: What's the minimum score in a category?
A: Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirement for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.
Q: Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right?
A: No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavorably on it.
Q: So what's the deal with equipment, anyway?
A: There is no official policy on how much equipment you should list. Historically, judges have frowned upon "item dependent" builds, but unfortunately the definition of that has been applied to mean anything from builds that don't function if you remove one very specific item, to builds that so much as mention a particular weapon. Builds that don't list gear should be assumed to buy useful generics - items to boost their primary stats, cloaks of resistance, appropriate magical weapons and armor, and so forth. If a build would find particular items useful, they should be listed, but experience suggests that the more generic you keep them, the more favorably judges are likely to look upon them, as a build being shut down because the Thundering Bagpipes of Urist McTrumpetbritches were unavailable is considered a weakness. Similarly, requiring items in order to be able to qualify for things tends to be frowned upon.
Q: Do you have any other rules and guidelines on how to judge?
A: We do, actually, designed to try and avoid unpleasantness we've encountered in past contests. The things we've come up with to avoid repeating this are given below.
SpoilerOne Mistake, One Penalty
Spoiler: What does this mean?
Judges are only allowed to penalize once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.
Non-exhaustive list of examples:
Skills
Allowed:
- Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
- Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
- Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs
Not allowed:
- Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation
Prereqs
Allowed:
- Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
- Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
- Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalizing for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)
Not Allowed:
- "Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
- Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes
Other general things that are no longer allowed:
- Penalizing because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
- Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalize if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.
- Please don't base your scores off the scores of another judge.
Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.
And some competition specific moments.
- Since the goal is to emulate the Secret Ingredient, achieving much higher power than the Secret Ingredient is capable of is overkill and should be marked accordingly. Likewise if the build cannot match the power of the Secret Ingredient it should be marked accordingly. Individual judges can decide how much is too much, as each judge will have different tastes. The goal here is to prevent all entries being Wizard 20 because "they do it better."
- For creature-SI rounds just polymorphing into SI isn't enough. Of course shape changing magic isn't banned, but using such straightforward approach should be penalized in the Innovation part.
Q: Do you have any contest house rules or clarifications to ambiguous rules?
A: Some that have come up in previous contests and needed answers to:
- All creatures are proficient with any natural weapons they may have or acquire.
- Bonus feats that are granted even if you do not meet the prerequisites do not require you to meet the prerequisites in order to use.
- Able Learner's benefit applies to the level you take it.
- Weapons from soulmelds are considered to be magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR.
- Unarmed Swordsage grants Improved Unarmed Strike at level 1.
- Not finishing Savage Progression is subject to a penalty to Elegance
- One dispute per entry. Submit disputes by PM to the Chair.
NB: If you just don't understand what did judge mean you are free to ask (also by PM to the Chair). It isn't count as dispute. - Ghostwalk ghost is banned
- Gold, silver, and bronze are awarded regardless of ties (e.g., 2 silvers does not preclude bronze)
- Spelltouched feats are legal and can be taken just like any other feat when you meet the prerequisites and have the feat slot available.
- The Variant Classes in Unearthed Arcana are considered ACFs.
Q: Can I submit more than one entry?
A: You may submit up to two entries into a given competition.
Q: Can I make edits or revisions to my submission?
A: As long as it is before the dishes have been posted in the reveal, you are welcome to revise or make edits to your entry. Please do so by sending a new PM with the changes incorporated.
Q: What is the chair's stance on builds with an "adaptation/variants" section?
A: If chefs have adaptations or variations on the build they want to present, they are strongly encouraged to put them together in a single section in the entry writeup. If you have a large enough variation, consider something like this linked build which presents two similar concepts to be judged separately.
In a build where major adaptations or variants are presented that would alter the score, judges are free to score the entry based only on the "central" or "main" build.
Links amusement/edification:Last edited by loky1109; 2024-03-20 at 05:44 PM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-01-23, 05:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
I'm going to be honest: I don't like this ingredient.
There's a ridiculous amount of overlap with the true dragon round, for one. Claws, a bite, a strong elemental focus, blindsight, SR, SLAs, DR, a breath weapon of all things? I'm going to guess that any entry could've been handed in as an imitation white dragon two rounds ago and the only thing that'd raise an eyebrow is the lack of wings.
But even if we hadn't just had a very similar round: Brood Spawn doesn't seem like a fun template to emulate for me. It focuses on natural weapons and ice magic, and unfortunately 'natural weapons gish' is an extremely narrow concept that the rules don't support all that well. Grabbing a handful of 4th-level spells and a few even higher ones is a huge demand to make of a build chiefly focused on getting claws and melee feats. The biggest hurdle for me in the dragon round was fitting something analogous to their high-level SLAs onto my builds: this seems like it'd just be the same problem again, but with less choice in what SLAs to include. It might be possible to grab everything with a fragmented enough approach, but it's really hard to do it cohesively; too hard, I think, to make for a good ingredient.
Apologies if I'm being too harsh, but I genuinely do like this contest, and I'd be sad to see yet another round go empty. Was there a logic to picking broodspawn that I'm missing here?Last edited by Inevitability; 2024-01-23 at 05:29 AM.
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2024-01-23, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
I agree that on the surface this one does seem similar to dragons and may drive a lot of possible entries into classes that can get the exact spells. However, I have a good start for an Idea that does not do that. So I feel like this is more of a question of angle shooting whether you wanna take the "obvious" path or go unhinged.
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2024-01-23, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Sorry for that.
There's a ridiculous amount of overlap with the true dragon round, for one. Claws, a bite, a strong elemental focus, blindsight, SR, SLAs, DR, a breath weapon of all things? I'm going to guess that any entry could've been handed in as an imitation white dragon two rounds ago and the only thing that'd raise an eyebrow is the lack of wings.
Plus, I agree with Invoked.
But even if we hadn't just had a very similar round: Brood Spawn doesn't seem like a fun template to emulate for me. It focuses on natural weapons and ice magic, and unfortunately 'natural weapons gish' is an extremely narrow concept that the rules don't support all that well. Grabbing a handful of 4th-level spells and a few even higher ones is a huge demand to make of a build chiefly focused on getting claws and melee feats. The biggest hurdle for me in the dragon round was fitting something analogous to their high-level SLAs onto my builds: this seems like it'd just be the same problem again, but with less choice in what SLAs to include. It might be possible to grab everything with a fragmented enough approach, but it's really hard to do it cohesively; too hard, I think, to make for a good ingredient.
Apologies if I'm being too harsh, but I genuinely do like this contest, and I'd be sad to see yet another round go empty. Was there a logic to picking broodspawn that I'm missing here?
My logic was:
first - it's blue;
second - it could be emulated in enough many ways, I looked on all possible ingredients before open voting;
third - it's pretty much obscure.
I see now, I should make more clear voting in future.
If everybody who want to participate come and say: "It's bad ingredient, we aren't in for this SI." - it will be disappointing, but I could change SI quickly in order to not waste time.If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-01-23, 04:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
I'm pretty ambivalent on the ingredient so far. I haven't had any ideas yet, but I don't hate it. If Invoked has an idea, I'll be happy to end up judging it if I don't end up competing. Whatever course is taken is fine with me.
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2024-01-24, 07:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Perhaps I was being too harsh - after some work I did end up with a build that I think strays far enough from a draconic flavor to feel novel to me. I'm down to keep this ingredient.
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2024-01-24, 07:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
For my part, I pledge to refrain from using 'natural weapons gish' SI for several next rounds. Maybe more than several.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-06, 05:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
It's one ten-day for deadline. How's it going?
If somebody need extra time just ask.If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-11, 06:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Update: Currently writing the text for the build. The build itself is done. Should get it in time with no issues
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2024-02-18, 08:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Is it time for the reveal?
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2024-02-18, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-18, 05:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
It's revealing time!
Please don't post until I give a mark!If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-18, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Our first contestant:
Originally Posted by Grub DubIf you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-18, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Second contestant
Originally Posted by AlbidaIf you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-18, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Third hors concours chair's entry.
Originally Posted by Shard of Great IceLast edited by loky1109; 2024-02-21 at 01:28 PM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-18, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
That's all. Two entries plus one out of competition.
Any volunteers for the role of judge?
Table.
# Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Total Place 1 Grub Dub CE Desert Kobold Shadowcaster 5/Acolyte of the Skin 10/ Gray Hand Enforcer 5 2 Albida LE Advespa Spirit Shaman 1/Decisive Strike Feign Death Monk 2/Swordsage 1/Sacred Fist 8 3 Shard of Great Ice CE Frost Dwarf Mantled Psychic Warrior 16 loky1109 N/A Last edited by loky1109; 2024-02-21 at 01:28 PM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-18, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
I can start judging in the next couple of days. I'm busy for a little while, but it shouldn't take too long with only two+ a chair's entry. I'll post my rubric in the next day or two.
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2024-02-21, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-21, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Here's my rubric. It's a little more loose than what I've done before. Actual judging should come this weekend.
Spoiler: InnovationStarts at 3 by default, will be adjusted up/down from there. This one's very hard because it's going to be a little subjective. I'll try to explain myself clearly.
Is the method you took to getting Brood spawn abilities unexpected?
More generally, did you heavily use common build ingredients?
Is your build surprising?
Spoiler: PowerStarts at 3
Can you contribute successfully to a mid-op party?
Do you have stamina with your abilities that equals or exceeds that of the basic Broodspawn?
Do you have some defense and utility options that broaden your horizons?
Spoiler: EleganceStarts at 5.
Is everything legal and unambiguous?
Does you avoid dips and item reliance as much as possible?
Do you stick to flavor or do you mix it egregiously?
Is your entry neat and all sources are listed?
Spoiler: IngredientStarts at 3
Does your character feel like a brood spawn?
Can you effectively mimic pretty much everything that a brood spawn can do?
Is mimicking a brood spawn a build defining feature, or is it more of a sideshow?
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2024-02-25, 10:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Judging has arrived!
Spoiler: Grub Dub 14.75Spoiler: Innovation 4Shadowcaster is always surprising, and Gray Hand Enforcer is new to me. Acolyte of the Skin is pretty rare as well. All in all, an unexpected approach. +1
Venerable Dragonwrought kobold is disappointing, though. -0.75
Power Attack and Weapon Finesse are common, but the rest are all at least somewhat rare. +0.5
Your build came from an unexpected direction, though a lot of that comes from your classes. Still, overall it was pretty surprising. +0.25
Spoiler: Power 2.5The higher level mystery trick you used keeps your highest level abilities in line, but you still don’t bring much raw power to the table. Your summoning is enough to keep you somewhat relevant, though. Still, this build will often struggle to keep up. -0.5
Compared to a Broodspawn, you have similar stamina with your SLAs, but most Broodspawn also melee pretty well, and you have serious issues with offense in melee, though you do have solid defense from Acolyte of the Skin. -0.25
You do have good defense, as mentioned before, and some utility from summons. All in all, a slight bonus here. +0.25
Spoiler: Elegance 3.25While the shadowcaster higher level mystery trick works pretty clearly RAW, it is also against RAI, enough for a slight penalty here. -0.25
You are chaotic evil, and Gray Hand Enforcer requires non evil, meaning you don’t qualify. -1
You also mixed Eberron and Forgotten Realms material, though only a little. -0.25
You have great flow with your classes (I like one class and two finished prestige classes a lot) and don’t need many items. 0
Your flavor is a little all over the place, with allegiance to one organization as well as a dragon and using fiendish magic. Your backstory doesn't do a ton to tie it together, but there's nothing totally contradictory, just awkward, so only a small penalty. -0.25
Spoiler: Ingredient 5While you’ve suffered a little in the earlier categories, I feel that the true point of the build was this one.
You feel decently like a broodspawn. +0.25
You do a great job mimicking a Brood Spawn’s abilities. +1
Mimicking a Brood Spawn defines your whole build, which is very satisfying in this competition. +0.75
I could go on more, but you really earned this five.
Overall, I thought Grub Dub did a great job mimicking Brood Spawn from a very random direction. The build felt a little slapdash and wasn’t particularly powerful, but it did a great job getting nearly every ability of a Brood Spawn.
Spoiler: Albida, Who Darkens Heaven and Freezes Earth 18.5Spoiler: Innovation 4.25Monk and Swordsage dips are pretty common. Spirit Shaman much less so, and Sacred Fist is rare but not unheard of. All in all, a slight negative. -0.25
Advespa came completely out of nowhere, though. +1
Shape Soulmeld is always popular, but your other feats are fairly rare. +0.25
The overall approach was interesting, particularly the combos between Spirit Shaman and Advespa. +0.25
Spoiler: Power 4.5You have decent enough melee damage and can contribute offensively with powerful area control. You should be able to contribute well to a mid op party. +0.5
You have decent stamina as well, with plentiful spell slots and a number of at will abilities. +0.5
You also have powerful defense and regeneration, though the limited number of spells a spirit shaman can cast at one time limits your utility. +0.5
Spoiler: Elegance 4.75You have no legal issues. +0
A couple of dips isn’t ideal, but it isn’t the worst thing in the world. -0.25
Your flavor is quite cohesive and fits together nicely. I like the concept of an ascetic martial artist who just happens to be a devil serving an Elder Evil. +0
You are neat and have sources listed. +0
Spoiler: Ingredient 5Albida feels a lot like a Brood Spawn, as you yourself pointed out. This is cemented by your flavor text. +1
You mimic everything a Brood Spawn has except for weaknesses. +0.75
You put good effort into being a Brood Spawn, and it is definitely the main focus. +0.25
I really liked this build, which was a great combination of cohesive mechanics and flavor and precise emulating of the secret ingredient. I also really enjoyed the flavor text.
Dispute away!
Loky, for your exhibition entry, would you prefer a full judging or just general commentary? I'm happy to do either.
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2024-02-25, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Thank you for your judgement - no disputes!
Are there ideas for the next round's theme yet? I think Shadowdancer might be interesting for a PrC-focused round, or perhaps Dwarven Defender. If we're doing a base class... Dragon Shaman and CW Samurai look challenging but fun?Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-02-25, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Last edited by loky1109; 2024-02-25 at 03:08 PM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-25, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Ty for judging FactualArcher,
I got the score(s) I wanted so while I could add two small quips, I am satisfied and don't wanna go for any disputes.
Personally, I liked your judgment as I can clearly understand all the points/where you are coming from, and why they are scored the way they are scored.
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2024-02-25, 04:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Judging for Shard of Great Ice!
Total score, 16.5
Spoiler: Innovation 3.5Mantled Psi War is pretty popular, but not overwhelming. -0.25
Voidmind is a popular template, as high ish LA templates go, but Frost Dwarf doesn’t show up much, and common for high LA templates is still fairly rare. +0.5
Snagging abilities through Powers was fairly expected to me, along with careful spell selection, but the use of Voidmind was pretty innovative. +0
No dip builds are always a little surprising in these contests, but mechanically your build isn’t super surprising in its angle or concept. +0.25
Spoiler: Power 3.75You can do pretty solid damage with powers and melee attacks, though nothing particularly exceptional. Still, you’ll do fine in a mid op party. +0.25
Stamina is so so without a ton of power points, but you won’t have much trouble getting through the day. +0.25
You mimic most of the Brood Spawn’s good defenses with Void Mind, and though you’re not incredibly tough, you’re decently durable. +0.25
Spoiler: Elegance 4.25You use unupdated 3.0 powers, which I’m pretty sure is illegal, but it doesn’t make or break your build. -0.5
You have no dips. +0
Your flavor is nice and cohesive. A servant of Father Llymic corrupted by Mindflayers makes perfect sense. +0
Entry and sources are neat, though you didn’t really list skills. -0.25
Spoiler: Ingredient 5The feel of your character, a fanatical servant of evil with alien masters, matches Brood Spawn nicely. +0.5
You mimic pretty much everything Brood Spawn can do, save for a single weakness. +0.75
Mimicking a Brood Spawn is clearly the main focus of your build. +0.75
With this entry and with the others, I was really impressed by everyone’s mimicking of Brood Spawn. I would have a lot of trouble making any coherent build that mimicked anything that closely, so I was really impressed all round.
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2024-02-25, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
What ideas did you had?
Thank you for judging! I really appreciate it.
UPD: and the table!
# Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef FactualArcher Total Place 1 Grub Dub CE Desert Kobold Shadowcaster 5/Acolyte of the Skin 10/ Gray Hand Enforcer 5 14.75 14.75 2nd 2 Albida LE Advespa Spirit Shaman 1/Decisive Strike Feign Death Monk 2/Swordsage 1/Sacred Fist 8 18.50 18.50 1st 3 Shard of Great Ice CE Voidmind Frost Dwarf Mantled Psychic Warrior 16 loky1109 16.50 16.50 N/A Last edited by loky1109; 2024-04-26 at 03:13 PM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-25, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
Okay. I have two topics to discuss.
First. Next round theme.
I want to make next round base class round.
CW Samurai looks not very great for me. Dragon Shaman... has some intersection with dragon theme, I prefer to delay it. And I had my own thoughts about next SI. I want to post them before judgement, but no sooner had do this.
So, i have in mind the following options:
- Amazon from Diablo II: Diablerie
- Truenamer from Tome of Magic
- Factotum from Dungeonscape
- Soulborn from Magic of Incarnum
I know Factotum was an SI in 30 round, but there are no entries and I think it has potential as SI.
Second. FactualArcher partially touched this in his judgement of Shard. What about 3.0 psionics? By current rules unupdated feats/powers/PrC are legal. But there exists obvious issues. 3.0 psi conversion into 3.5 is... hard. Should we ban all 3.0 psi, or opposite should we explicitly allow 3.0 content where it doesn't conflict with 3.5 psi rules "update"? Maybe something middle?If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-25, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
I see both participants said they don't have disputes, but I give them 24 hours to change their minds. Reveal will be tomorrow.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-02-25, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
1. Amazon feels real weird to coherently emulate, given how it's near impossible to build an actual amazon without ending up with some strange mix of javelin, archery, and melee abilities. It's a maybe, but I wouldn't prefer it.
Truenamer grows on me the more I think about it, but its abilities are still so weird that I'd have to spend more time delving into it to decide if you can actually get them from enough places.
Factotum I don't know about - it's a class where the whole point is that it can do a little bit of everything - easy enough to replicate, but hard to make a cohesive whole. Then again, that's just a preference of my own - if everyone's going to have an equally hard time, I shouldn't feel too troubled.
Soulborn would strongly depend on how it's being judged. A soulborn round where merely imitating individual soulmelds is sufficient sounds great - but one where judges will look for actual chakra binds with actual soulmelds shaped feels dangerously restrictive.
Put me down for factotum > soulborn > truenamer > amazon, I guess.
2. Awkward for sure! I'd advice judges to accept anything that works about the same in 3.0 as it does in 3.5, but to come down hard on anything that had its functioning or impact massively altered by the 3.5 update.Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-02-25, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Zinc Saucier XLIV: Ice-IX
I would most prefer Factotum of these ideas, but the others all seem fun.
About 3.0 Psionics. I thought there was a rule saying that un updated 3.0 psionics aren't allowed, in opposition to the general rule that un updated stuff is allowed. I don't actually know where that rule is, though, so I might have actually made it up. Inevitability's method of handling it seems good.