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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    I was wondering what the 'worst' spells, powers, mysteries, invocations, etc, are for their level in 3.5, but couldn't find much recently

    (For some reason, forums and discussions seem to focus on the good and powerful??? Weird behaviour),
    and it'd be neat to know- not to avoid, but to create a character who uses the worst options of all of 3.5 effectively and still does well anyway. As a power move, ya know?

    On the powers side, Slow Breathing: +4 vs altitude sickness is weak for a 1st level power. I guess 0th level ones don't exist in 3.5 unless you forward port a PRC that gives them back, but I'd hesitate to ever use this, especially as once high altitude flight is viable you typically have so much gas based stuff going on you're fine
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    My best starting guess would be "Death Grimace" lvl1 (BoVD) - it does nothing but leaving your magical signature on a corpse, "identifying himself (truthfully or falsely) as the murderer".
    How about signalling everyone with or without a little access to divination to hunt you down ...?

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    If Pathfinder counts, then I nominate the spell Poisoned Egg. It, well, poisons an egg. For a couple minutes. With a low-DC poison that deals small amounts of dex damage. And then it becomes normal again, except (as the spell points out) against creatures vulnerable to eggs.

    Yup.
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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Iron Body does very little except give construct immunities, impose a 50% arcane spell failure, and grant an enhancement bonus to a stat wizards don't want an enhancement bonus to. As an 8th-level spell, it's ridiculously overpriced. Even if you get it on a divine caster, it's not all that good.


    Also, Blight feels very overpriced for what it does. You want to hurt a plant creature, then a regular low-level damaging spell will often be a better bet. And if you're casting it to destroy a single large plant... why? When is that something you desperately need to do?
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    How about "Crunchy Snow"?
    It causes 20x20ft of snow per lvl to be crunchy - having the single effect of making it hard to sneak on (-20 is severe though).

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    If Pathfinder counts, then I nominate the spell Poisoned Egg. It, well, poisons an egg. For a couple minutes. With a low-DC poison that deals small amounts of dex damage. And then it becomes normal again, except (as the spell points out) against creatures vulnerable to eggs.

    Yup.
    I wonder if this spell has ever been used in any of the build competitions? I would personally love to see what sort of glorious insanity would be the result of a dedicated optimizer trying to murder the world with poisoned eggs.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Vecna's Malevolent Whisper is another fun one: it's [Death] and [Mind-Affecting] so a million creatures are immune, it only works against creatures with 10 or fewer HP, it allows SR, and the sole effect is to put the target at -9 HP (causing them to die next turn).

    Firstly there's the targeting issue: unless you're using this on a random commoner you have no way of knowing what creatures are going to have too much HP to use this on. More importantly, any half-decent blasting spell should already be able to reliably deal 10 damage even on a succesful save; something like Orb of Force is going to be better in the vast majority of cases, even at level 7 when it's weakest.

    I suppose you could deliberately gloss over the word 'reduce' and argue this lets you heal up your frenzied berserker buddy?
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Vecna's Malevolent Whisper is another fun one
    Maybe because it only uses vocal component you can use it on your geriatric prison guard while you are shackled? 🤔

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Speak with plants. Non creature plants are highly unlikely to have any information you care about. Creature plants overwhelmingly either just want to eat you or have easier methods of communication.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Level 1: I am having a really hard time even imagining a use case for Slow Burn.
    Level 2: Extend Tentacles, is just appalling. Not only do you need to have tentacles in the first place (and which wizard would invest resources in order to put themselves in melee instead of casting), it uses your action for the ridiculous effect of increasing your reach by 5ft only, and for only 1rd/level.
    Level 3: Daylight is basically the effect of a cantrip in a slightly larger radius. Dispelling magical darkness is not worth it.
    Level 4: Crushing Despair inflicts basically the same effect as a saved Fear on a failed save.
    Level 5: Insect Plague is effectively 2d6 damage out of a level 5 slot.
    Level 6: Tenser's transformation. Sometimes you want a fighter in your party. You don't want to become the fighter, and you certainly don't want to become a featless armorless fighter that cannot use items and has already used their first standard action of the fight.
    Level 7: Legend Lore is a level 7 spell in the Knowledge domain. A level 7 spell with expensive material component and focus, requiring a casting time of half the in-game duration of a campaign, and giving "vague and incomplete lore" on a place of legendary importance. Nope.
    Level 8: I'll nominate Megalodon Empowerment as a Druid 8th level spell. It gives worse abilities than the Wild Shape you've had for about 10 levels now.
    Stormrage is also extremely bad. Two standard actions for the equivalent of a Fly spell and a Lightning Bolt is not a good rate for an 8th level spell.
    Level 9: Greater Revitalize Legacy. Using a 9th level spell to regain a use of a 4-7 level spell is bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by H_H_F_F View Post
    3.5 allows you to optimize into godhood, yes, but far more importantly, it lets you optimize weak, weird, and niche options into relevance.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnaeus View Post
    Speak with plants. Non creature plants are highly unlikely to have any information you care about. Creature plants overwhelmingly either just want to eat you or have easier methods of communication.
    For reasons I'm certain I've stated before elsewhere, this is just plainly untrue, if one approaches plant perception from a scientific point of view. Further,
    –one (be them PC or DM) either buys into what the game says, and treats it just like Speak with Animals or whatnot regardless; or
    –one will have to conclude Stone Tell is the single worst spell in the game, because despite being much higher level, it doesn't, and indeed cannot ever do anything (you find the senses and memory of planties insufficient? Try dirt; it doesn't have either).

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Also, Blight feels very overpriced for what it does. You want to hurt a plant creature, then a regular low-level damaging spell will often be a better bet.
    Or be Gnaeus, I suppose. I know I feel hurt.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    For reasons I'm certain I've stated before elsewhere, this is just plainly untrue, if one approaches plant perception from a scientific point of view. Further,
    –one (be them PC or DM) either buys into what the game says, and treats it just like Speak with Animals or whatnot regardless; or
    –one will have to conclude Stone Tell is the single worst spell in the game, because despite being much higher level, it doesn't, and indeed cannot ever do anything (you find the senses and memory of planties insufficient? Try dirt; it doesn't have either).
    And you were wrong there also. It is specifically limited to both the sensory abilities and the memory of a plant

    Stone tell is not commonly a good spell. But it DOES say it can "relate to you who or what has touched them as well as revealing what is covered or concealed behind or under them" Which does seem to directly contradict the next line "A stone’s perspective, perception, and knowledge may prevent the stone from providing the details you are looking for". So if the DM thinks line 1 governs, Stone Tell >>> Speak with plants, because a plant is almost never going to be able to tell you what touched them or what is concealed behind or under them. If line 2 governs, Stone Tell and Speak with Plants both qualify as useless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Or be Gnaeus, I suppose. I know I feel hurt.
    A spell to kill plant creatures is at least situationally useful. Its worth having as a prepared caster so that if you know you are facing a bunch of evil advanced treants you could memorize it. I wouldn't want it on like a fixed list. Blight is also a highly campaign specific utility spell, as it can autokill a plant non-creature of any size in a standard action. So if you have some kind of mile high fantasy super-tree with the elf capital nestled in the branches, they're in serious danger. If for some reason you want to kill an Integral Tree, accept no substitutes. That use, I admit, is SUPER niche. But it has the potential to be campaign defining if it is important.
    Last edited by Gnaeus; 2024-02-13 at 11:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by Gnaeus View Post
    And you were wrong there also. It is specifically limited to both the sensory abilities and the memory of a plant

    Stone tell is not commonly a good spell. But it DOES say it can "relate to you who or what has touched them as well as revealing what is covered or concealed behind or under them" Which does seem to directly contradict the next line "A stone’s perspective, perception, and knowledge may prevent the stone from providing the details you are looking for". So if the DM thinks line 1 governs, Stone Tell >>> Speak with plants, because a plant is almost never going to be able to tell you what touched them or what is concealed behind or under them. If line 2 governs, Stone Tell and Speak with Plants both qualify as useless.
    Ah, what could I possibly say to such an argument as "no you wrong"? Best I can think of is refer to my own previous, detailed response to your concerns, including an explanation of why "plants can't tell what's under them" might seem true – if one doesn't really know how plants even work.

    Also, by the same token, Speak with Plants specifies in its text that
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    [a] regular plant’s sense of its surroundings is limited, so it won’t be able to give (or recognize) detailed descriptions of creatures or answer questions about events outside its immediate vicinity.
    If you choose to read that as "plants can never recall or describe anything", be my guest, but all I actually see is that any description will likely be incomplete or not particularly detailed. Heck, it says plants can answer questions about events in their immediate vicinity. That these somehow must be present events is your own interpretation with no basis in the rules text.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Ah, what could I possibly say to such an argument as "no you wrong"? Best I can think of is refer to my own previous, detailed response to your concerns, including an explanation of why "plants can't tell what's under them" might seem true – if one doesn't really know how plants even work.

    Also, by the same token, Speak with Plants specifies in its text that

    If you choose to read that as "plants can never recall or describe anything", be my guest, but all I actually see is that any description will likely be incomplete or not particularly detailed. Heck, it says plants can answer questions about events in their immediate vicinity. That these somehow must be present events is your own interpretation with no basis in the rules text.
    Plant. May be able to say "Something touched me" Virtually never useful. Was it a squirrel? The plant doesn't know and neither do you. Rock. Can relate to you "Who or What touched them" IDK how. But it says they can. It is obviously not limited by the nonexistent senses of a rock. The rock can clearly, definitionally tell you what is buried behind or under them. Why? Again, IDK, rocks have no senses, maybe thats why it is a 6th level spell. The plant may know that there is some organic matter or something its roots can't penetrate. Is that a dead elk, or a person? A rock, or a chest? Again, the plant doesn't know the difference. It is limited by both the plants senses and its ability to understand what it is sensing. When you are done, you know that there is something useful or non-useful under the tree, which you presumably suspected before you cast a spell to talk to it. It is a spell only useful if understanding weather patterns or termite activity somehow helps you. The Rock MAY (depending on the interplay between clause 1 and clause 2) be able to tell you "An Orc (who or what touched me) hid a chest (What is concealed under them)" which may actually be useful enough to tell you whether you need to get out the pickaxe. The SPELL is clearly giving some level of retroactive senses and memory to the ROCK, because otherwise it would never be able to do what the spell says it can do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    If you choose to read that as "plants can never recall or describe anything", be my guest, but all I actually see is that any description will likely be incomplete or not particularly detailed. Heck, it says plants can answer questions about events in their immediate vicinity. That these somehow must be present events is your own interpretation with no basis in the rules text.
    The spell clearly does not improve the intelligence of the plant. It points out that stupid plant creatures may make inane comments. Memory is a function of intelligence. A 0 intelligence plant is going to have minimal memory and pathetic understanding. Now I will grant you, that a TREE may have a certain amount of innate physical memory, of things that are important to trees. It presumably would know that 3 years ago was a drought. Or if it was cut with an axe. Unfortunately, knowing that there was a drought several years ago is rarely useful, and anyone with speak with plants can probably tell that it was cut with an axe. What an adventurer would want to know is "3 days ago a band of orcs came through here". Int 0 tree will not remember things not important to it. Tree cannot see or hear orcs. Tree has neither the intelligence nor the senses to tell a band of orcs from a herd of deer. Unless they happened to cut or burn that tree, in which case, the tree would probably both remember and be able to sense it. But again, you could probably figure that out by examining the tree. And even then, it could probably only tell you it was on fire, not presumably how it happened. The spell clarifies it DOES NOT change the senses of the plant, and that it CANT give or understand detailed descriptions.
    Last edited by Gnaeus; 2024-02-13 at 01:02 PM.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    I don't see what's so wrong with Speak with Plants that it would rank so poorly. It's a little overleveled compared to Speak with Animals, but at least it has a really nice, clear, obvious use case of speaking with plant creatures (which druids often have as minions!), and, like, it's also at the same level as real head-scratchers like Diminish Plants, Daylight, Repel Vermin, and Secret Page—to choose a few examples from the PHB. There's no way it's the worst spell at its level.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    For reasons I'm certain I've stated before elsewhere, this is just plainly untrue
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    Last edited by Ozreth; 2024-02-13 at 01:25 PM.
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    smile Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Megalodon Empowerment is good for one reason only

    If you possess the wild shape ability, you can assume the shapes of animals one size category larger than normal.
    You cast it, turn into a Gargantuan animal, then dismiss it. Sure it's expensive, but getting access to an EPIC feat for an 8th level slot is not bad.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel7284 View Post
    Megalodon Empowerment is good for one reason only

    You cast it, turn into a Gargantuan animal, then dismiss it. Sure it's expensive, but getting access to an EPIC feat for an 8th level slot is not bad.
    Gargantuan animals like what? Seems pretty hard to top the dire polar bear (Huge, 39 str, improved grab) even if you're allowed to pull from gargantuan stuff. Maaaaybe the Roc, and even then that's forced to exist in an awkward middle ground where the dragonhawk offers better speed and detection and the DPB offers better combat prowess. If you're willing to spend an 8th-level slot to become a big flying brute, I'd rather go bear mode and use the slot on a proper buff.

    Maybe it's nice to turn into a zeuglodon for strictly aquatic combat? Though even then, the lack of improved grapple makes it worse than its ursine cousin in my book - that and the inability to switch over to dry land seamlessly.
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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozreth View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnaeus View Post
    Plant. May be able to say "Something touched me" Virtually never useful. Was it a squirrel? The plant doesn't know and neither do you. Rock. Can relate to you "Who or What touched them" IDK how. But it says they can. It is obviously not limited by the nonexistent senses of a rock. The rock can clearly, definitionally tell you what is buried behind or under them. Why? Again, IDK, rocks have no senses, maybe thats why it is a 6th level spell.
    No, the description of Stone Tell tells you the stone can tell you if it can perceive and know it, which is never. There. What's so hard to understand about how it's magic?

    The plant may know that there is some organic matter or something its roots can't penetrate. Is that a dead elk, or a person? A rock, or a chest? Again, the plant doesn't know the difference. It is limited by both the plants senses and its ability to understand what it is sensing. When you are done, you know that there is something useful or non-useful under the tree, which you presumably suspected before you cast a spell to talk to it. It is a spell only useful if understanding weather patterns or termite activity somehow helps you.
    It's a 1 minute/level spell. That's 5 minutes at least for a Druid. If the Druid is not stone cold dumb, asking the right questions to get an approximate shape for underground objects is not rocket science, which helps with the "is it a dead elk" issue. 5 minutes also allows for asking multiple trees, which is still faster than digging up the whole area when you know something should be there but not the exact spot.

    The Rock MAY (depending on the interplay between clause 1 and clause 2) be able to tell you "An Orc (who or what touched me) hid a chest (What is concealed under them)" which may actually be useful enough to tell you whether you need to get out the pickaxe. The SPELL is clearly giving some level of retroactive senses and memory to the ROCK, because otherwise it would never be able to do what the spell says it can do.
    By your logic, no, because it explicitly says it doesn't make the rock smarter, more perceptive or intelligent. It just doesn't work.

    The spell clearly does not improve the intelligence of the plant. It points out that stupid plant creatures may make inane comments. Memory is a function of intelligence. A 0 intelligence plant is going to have minimal memory and pathetic understanding.
    Same goes for the stone. And yet, magic.

    Now I will grant you, that a TREE may have a certain amount of innate physical memory
    All plants do.

    Int 0 tree will not remember things not important to it. Tree cannot see or hear orcs. Tree has neither the intelligence nor the senses to tell a band of orcs from a herd of deer.
    Twentyfold true for a rock. Plants do technically sense light and pick up vibrations, so they see and hear, after a fashion.

    The spell clarifies it DOES NOT change the senses of the plant, and that it CANT give or understand detailed descriptions.
    Again, I find it odd that you're so ready to ignore half the text for Stone Tell while insisting that limited means 'none at all' and not detailed likewise means 'none at all'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Troacctid View Post
    I don't see what's so wrong with Speak with Plants that it would rank so poorly. It's a little overleveled compared to Speak with Animals, but at least it has a really nice, clear, obvious use case of speaking with plant creatures (which druids often have as minions!), and, like, it's also at the same level as real head-scratchers like Diminish Plants, Daylight, Repel Vermin, and Secret Page—to choose a few examples from the PHB. There's no way it's the worst spell at its level.
    Gnaeus seems to hate this particular spell for some reason (or hates PLANTIES, in which case bad Gnaeus, BAD!) I cannot quite discern. I really don't get it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Gargantuan animals like what? Seems pretty hard to top the dire polar bear (Huge, 39 str, improved grab) even if you're allowed to pull from gargantuan stuff.
    BATTLETITAN!! 42 STR, Improved Grab and Swallow Whole, plus it's a DINOSAUR. Still only Huge, though.

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    smile Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    I agree that there are not a TON of options for Gargantuan animals, but there are some. Here is an old thread on here that discusses some options: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...sal-Wild-Shape

    There are definitely niche uses for some of them, combat or otherwise.

    Roc does certainly stand out with that strength score + flyer.

    Regardless, taking these options into consideration, I don't think the spell can be considered one of the worst anymore.
    Last edited by Rebel7284; 2024-02-13 at 05:39 PM.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    I feel qualified to weigh in on the worst invocations for each grade.

    Least
    It has to be soulreaving aura. The use case of death knell is so overwhelmingly narrow, and the temporary hit points you gain by using it are too ephemeral to matter. Honorable mention goes to drain incarnum and its paltry 1 point of Wisdom damage.

    Lesser
    Definitely no competition in this category: steal incarnum wins hands-down. It's pretty impressive that this invocation manages to have absolutely no effect against literally 100% of the statblocks in all of the Monster Manuals. And even against the enemies that aren't immune to it, a saving throw not only negates it but makes the target immune to it for 24 hours thereafter. And even if they fail the save, the payoff is that you steal a pathetic 1 point of essentia per 5 caster levels, which is...like, it's basically nothing! It's like the equivalent of inflicting the dazzled condition! Worst invocation in the game bar none. Honorable mention goes to thieves' bane, because who in the world thought that at-will hold portal was on the same power level as at-will fly?

    Greater
    I'm going to say the worst invocation here is almost definitely dragonward, because it is so laser-focused on hating dragons that it forgets to actually do anything to meaningfully inconvenience the dragons it hates. All it does is reduce the damage that dragons deal to you (DR 5 against natural weapons, resistance 20 against breath weapons) and make you immune to frightful presence. That's pretty sad. Honorable mention goes to hindering blast for the embarrassingly atrocious comparison with noxious blast at the same grade.

    Dark
    The loser here is dark discorporation on a technicality. Due to a rules dysfunction, the invocation prevents you from taking the action required to dismiss it, so you're trapped in swarm form for 24 hours, unable to take any standard actions. Awkward. Assuming you apply a common-sense patch for that particular bug, the next runner-up is probably instill vulnerability, which is just incredibly underwhelming for the level you get it. You need them to fail a Fortitude save against a 7th-level effect, and this is all you're getting out of it? Steal summoning gets an honorable mention for being absurdly narrow, but in its defense, at least when it does work, it probably wins you the fight on the spot.

    Worst invocations by spell level:
    1. Breath of the Night
    2. Soulreaving Aura
    3. Thieves' Bane
    4. Steal Incarnum
    5. Wingstorm
    6. Dragonward
    7. Instill Vulnerability
    8. Dark Discorporation
    9. N/A (there's only one invocation at this level and it kicks ass)
    Last edited by Troacctid; 2024-02-13 at 04:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by Curse View Post
    My best starting guess would be "Death Grimace" lvl1 (BoVD) - it does nothing but leaving your magical signature on a corpse, "identifying himself (truthfully or falsely) as the murderer".
    How about signalling everyone with or without a little access to divination to hunt you down ...?
    I don't think this one's too bad, but it's definitely an NPC spell, and a way to give a villain with a compulsion (like many Batman villains) a game mechanic way to leave a "calling card," but quickly, and without having to get your hands dirty doing a lot of carving and whatnot. Come to think of it, most slasher villains must have this spell, too.

    I think a large percentage of the really terrible-looking spells, abilities, feats, etc. either are the result of being for an NPC, for an extremely specific environment, or both.
    And 3rd edition highly encourages any effect that does X to have a game mechanic explanation for why you can do X. And thus, you end up with an official spell providing specific rules for evil assassins desecrating corpses in a flamboyantly magical way instead of just saying "Eh, let him do it with Prestidigitation or something."

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    At least Speak with Plants allows you to be democratic by pollen your constituency, even if the conversations are all a bit wooden and not much is going to stem from them.

    By contrast, Stone Tell rocks.
    Last edited by Saintheart; 2024-02-13 at 05:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    "Worst" can be defined in a few ways: Most narrow, smallest effect, and largest downside. The first two are often linked. This is because if you're doing something really narrow, you expect it to really pay you off.

    Here are a few 9th level spells in the "narrow/small" category, and the "actively painful" category.

    Most Narrow
    Greater Revitalize Legacy has already been mentioned, but it's not the only 9th level spell that could've been at 3rd or 4th level without issue.
    Breath Weapon Admixture doubles your breath weapon damage for 1 round, making it deal an equal amount of another energy type (the save DC goes down if you use sonic). This is for sure an "NPC Boss Dragon" spell because few 17th level wizards would use a 9th level spell to make something else deal more damage, when that other thing also grants a save.
    Sublime Revelry cures a small number of lingering effects an then makes its targets (1/level within 30 feet) take half attack damage and get mind blanked for 1 minute per level. I could maybe see some niche situations where this could come up but why would a 17th level cleric prepare this? Also, if you really want the effect, the spell is a sidegrade, not upgrade but sidegrade, to the 7th level spell Empyreal Ecstasy.
    Freedom from the player's handbook is largely just a dispel magic that hits everything that Freedom of Movement already stops, plus one 9th level spell. (Also, using the 9th level spell technically doesn't work because of how targeting works, but that's neither here nor there.)
    Actually, while on the subject, does Invoke Magic work? Scholars debate it to this day. It's a spell that you cast in places where you can't cast a spell with the effect of letting you cast another spell. So do I have to use Invoke Magic to be able to cast my Invoke Magic to be able to cast another spell? Who knows! How often are you encountering dead magic zones that you have this spell known or prepared? If the problem is an antimagic field, try wearing a wizard hat instead.
    Khelben's Dweomerdoom lets you spend a swift action to make a dispel check against someone and, if you succeed, they lose one of their highest level spell slots/prepared spells at random. That's it. At least the 1000gp item is a focus and not a component!
    Investiture of the Pit Fiend grants its target a fly speed of 60 (average) and fire resist for 1 minute per level. In addition, each round they can choose to have frightful presence, a standard action that deals strength damage in a burst (which hits you too), or four natural attacks that deal 2D6 damage. Anyway, I find it hilarious that this spell is the same level as Shapechange but with one tenth the duration. I mean, come on. it's worse than Polymorph.
    Sanctify the Wicked requires a 10,000 GP focus and costs you a level every time you cast it. What you get is a really limited Mindrape or Programmed Amnesia except instead of being dispellable, it takes 1 year. And if it's interrupted, the target will seek you out and attempt to kill you. Did I mention you lose a level?
    Edit: Mindrape is not dispellable; you need Miracle or Wish, or Break Enchantment if you change them too severely. And Programmed Amnesia is not dispellable either, although it's canceled in an AMF, but you can stop it with Wish, Miracle, or Greater Restoration.
    Unname requires you to use truespeech. (I mean, it's a 9th level medium-range save or die with a skill check, a fort save, and SR before it works. But mainly it's the truenaming thing.) This spell does have the niche use of being able to kill artifacts if your target's holding them.


    Actively Bad
    I have a few candidates for 9th level spells that it is simply incorrect to ever cast.
    End to Strife is a 9th level cleric/Apostle of Peace spell that forced all intelligent creatures within 80 feet of the caster take 20D6 damage any time they make an attack roll. "Oh," you might say. "What if somebody is attacking the caster with a longbow? What if somebody has a medium-range spell? What if somebody has a construct? What if somebody summons something?" To which I answer, good news! End to strife is not dismissable.

    The best I can make of this spell is that an evil cleric can cast it before routing an army or a castle with their undead army, and that's a weird primary use case for a spell in the Book of Exalted Deeds. If you're engaging your enemy without you rolling attack rolls in the first place, then you probably should just prepare a 9th level no-save-just-lose spell instead of this. Oh, if and you're using this on level-appropriate encounters, it's both [Mind-Affecting] and stopped by spell resistance.

    Mycontil's Last Resolt lets you spend a 9th level spell and a standard action in order to spend all of your remaining spells. All creatures within 10, 20, and 30 feet of you take 8, 6, or 4 damage per spell slot remaining, regardless of level. Ref half, SR yes. You take the maximum damage with no save or SR. If you really want to deal a lot of damage to people in a 30 foot burst, surely there is a better way that doesn't deal as much or more damage to you, and removes every spell you have at the same time? It's such a weird spell because you don't want to cast it at the start of an encounter because you'd probably try winning before killing yourself, but at the end of the encounter it's lost half its power. Why does it exist?

    And finally, the granddaddy of all terrible spells, it's...
    Transcend Mortality! This 9th level Wu-Jen only spell allows you to become much harder to damage or kill for 1 round/level, gaining DR, SR, energy resistance, immunity to many status effects (including ones like starvation and disease, which I find hilarious), and a +10 to saves. What happens when the spell ends? You are reduced to a fine pile of ash, no save. But don't worry: If you can't wait a full round per level, you can dismiss it early to put truths to those myths of spontaneous human combustion.

    Have you learned, prepared, and cast Transcend Mortality? I've found three failure points in your plan.
    Last edited by bekeleven; 2024-02-14 at 07:06 AM.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by bekeleven View Post
    Actively Bad
    I'd personally include PWK, because honestly if someone (either enemy or ally) is wasting a 9th-level slot on an Enchantment (Compulsion)[Death, Mind-Affecting] spell, I'd be personally offended. It hits Spell Resistance all the same as End to Strife, but with significantly lower potential damage output, single target, AND has close range (shorter than EtS' emanation).

    It doesn't (potentially) hinder allies in the same way End to Strife (potentially) does, but the emanation from EtS can be manipulated such that an ally that makes attack rolls can do so from outside the effect but not an enemy. It's a spell for protecting the backlines while enabling the frontlines (if they exist) to do their thing.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Some more suggestions,

    • Acid Splash. This spell actively encourages novice players to spend their turns pinging for 1d3 damage, instead of doing literally anything else. And that's just a horrible lesson for newbies, and potentially a big turnoff if they expect their character to be contributing.
    • Pyrotechnics. Yeah, it's a debuff spell that only works if you happen to have a bonfire nearby (how often does that even happen?), and then it hits your allies too. That should be a hard pass.
    • Stone Discus. It's a Pathfinder spell that duplicates Scorching Ray, except it tosses rocks instead of fire. Notably, that means that it targets regular AC instead of touch AC, which makes it pretty useless.
    • Interposing Hand. Much as I respect ol' Bigby, this fifth-level spell effectively gives you +4 to armor class against a single opponent, where the first-level Shield spell does the same against each opponent.
    • Telekinesis. For moving objects, this is upstaged by the lower-level Floating Disc, as well as by the martials in your party. For damage, this is just really bad for its level.
    • Wall of Iron. It's a wall that falls over for damage, in a random direction. As damaging spells go, plain ol' Fireball does it better. As walls go, you'll want one that doesn't tip over at random. Why does this exist again?
    • Forceful Hand. Hey, did you know what keeps enemies away from you without a roll? Yep, it's those wall spells again!


    $.02!
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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Some more suggestions,

    • Acid Splash. This spell actively encourages novice players to spend their turns pinging for 1d3 damage, instead of doing literally anything else. And that's just a horrible lesson for newbies, and potentially a big turnoff if they expect their character to be contributing.
    • Pyrotechnics. Yeah, it's a debuff spell that only works if you happen to have a bonfire nearby (how often does that even happen?), and then it hits your allies too. That should be a hard pass.
    • Stone Discus. It's a Pathfinder spell that duplicates Scorching Ray, except it tosses rocks instead of fire. Notably, that means that it targets regular AC instead of touch AC, which makes it pretty useless.
    • Interposing Hand. Much as I respect ol' Bigby, this fifth-level spell effectively gives you +4 to armor class against a single opponent, where the first-level Shield spell does the same against each opponent.
    • Telekinesis. For moving objects, this is upstaged by the lower-level Floating Disc, as well as by the martials in your party. For damage, this is just really bad for its level.
    • Wall of Iron. It's a wall that falls over for damage, in a random direction. As damaging spells go, plain ol' Fireball does it better. As walls go, you'll want one that doesn't tip over at random. Why does this exist again?
    • Forceful Hand. Hey, did you know what keeps enemies away from you without a roll? Yep, it's those wall spells again!


    $.02!
    A lot of these are only bad in the default use case, and I'd hesitate to put them on this list. Acid Splash is a great vehicle for precision damage that comes in really cheap wands; Pyrotechnics can work off of a torch or even a matchstick and there's ways of making yourself/your allies immune (assuming your DM doesn't let everyone close their eyes for a round a la gaze attacks). Telekinesis notoriously lets you make 15 attacks with large greatswords in a single round: that's 45d6 damage to be split as you please, no save no sr.

    As for Wall of Iron, even if you want to mischaracterize it as the tipping being inherent rather than an option you get to ignore: it's the easiest and cleanest way to break the core D&D economy! How's that not useful?
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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Abate Dracorage gets my vote, because the lexicographically first spell should be something cool instead of this rubbish.
    Last edited by Elenian; 2024-02-14 at 01:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Yeah, agree with Inevitability that all of those spells have perfectly good use cases. But if you insist on naming one of the damaging cantrips, Ray of Frost is definitely worse than Acid Splash: It allows SR, and cold is a more often resisted damage type than acid. Though, with as cheap as cantrip wands are, a rogue is probably going to carry both, just in case they meet something with cold vulnerability.

    And Telekinesis can be used to move (or immobilize) creatures, not just to damage them directly. And also note that the combat maneuver option doesn't allow for a save.
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    Default Re: Bottom Worst Spells of 3.5 by level

    Magic of Faerun's Spider Poison is a 3rd-level sorc/wiz spell that deals... 1d6 strength damage! On a melee touch attack! It's so insanely outclassed by Ray of Enfeeblement or Lesser Shivering Touch (1st-level spells!) that it's not even funny.

    There's just so many contradictions in the spell: do you want to very slightly hamper the enemy melee brute (the only kind of foe who really cares about dropped strength)? Then march your d4 hit die full caster over, hope he's not immune to poison, pray you overcome his high Fortitude save, and make him slightly weaker when he full attacks you next turn.


    Phantom Trap is another real stinker: spend 50 GP so anybody trying to steal your stuff... wastes a few minutes before realizing nothing's there? It's so blatantly a 'screw with the party' spell that they forgot to give it an actual use case.
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