Swift ready spell abuse, is it RAW legal?

[Pezzo]

I have a few questions about how the swift ready spell works, and if it is possible to abuse it. It is a conjuration (summoning) spell from forge of war, it has a duration of 24 hours or until invoked, and targets objects. It is meant to don your armor and wield your weapons as a swift action.
First you cast the spell on the equipment of your choice, then at any time before the spell expires you can use a swift action to "invoke" that gear.

The abuse I had in mind was using the spell on an intelligent item, and with the "beckon the frozen" feat (frostburn p44), instead of summoning it, you could choose to summon its cold subtyped cousin, and since it is a summoned object it would not return from where it came when the spell expires (which is the moment it appears). With Swift ready being a 2nd level spell, it could be cast several times per day in this way, increasing the WBL at an absurd rate.
A chameleon could change the summoned intelligent item by picking different bonus feats each day that enhance summoning to get a variety of different kinds of the same intelligent item.

But there is the RAW problem, intelligent items are constructs, are they valid targets for the spell? A construct is an animated object, but is an animated object an object? An when the spell expires, the intelligent item summoned is definitely a creature, but maybe also an object, so it should definitely disappear, but maybe not, and if it does disappear, when does it disappear? The spell lasts 24 hours or until invoked, when is the object summoned? Is it when the spell is cast or when the item is invoked?

So, I know this shouldn't work, but maybe you guys know a way it could. And if you do, everybody gets an intelligent item!

[Anthrowhale]

This sounds hilarious, but my understanding is that object and creature are mutually exclusive designations.

You could potentially PAO a creature into an object, Swift Ready it, then have a claim that the invocation works even if it's reverted back to a creature since targeting validity is determined on cast.

[Biggus]

Swift Ready specifies it works on objects. Anything with a Wis and Cha score is a creature, not an object (PHB p.9, MM p.312-3). So as far as I can see, by RAW it doesn't work.

The only ambiguity I can see is that it specifies it can summon "magic items" and intelligent items are definitely magic items.

[Darg]

You could potentially PAO a creature into an object, Swift Ready it, then have a claim that the invocation works even if it's reverted back to a creature since targeting validity is determined on cast.

They'd have to be "equipment" at the time of activation too.

[Pezzo]

I've been trying to find something, but what I got were just more questions.
The sample intelligent items in the DMG don't mention physical ability scores, which animated objects have. Which leads me to read this:
"Intelligent items can actually be considered creatures because they have Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Treat them as constructs."
As "they're not constructs nor creatures, just treat them as if they were".
But if they are indeed constructs then, what happens to their hp and hardness? Do they gain physical ability scores as animated objects do?
And if they don't, creatures without strength and dexterity scores cannot exert force and cannot move, which means they shouldn't be able to speak either, and having no HDs would die on creation?
If they do get HDs and physical scores as animated objects, can an intelligent dancing weapon be considered a manufactured and natural weapon like the monk unarmed strike?
And when wielding or wearing an intelligent item, would you be grappling it? Or would it be riding you?

[InvisibleBison]

what happens to their hp and hardness?

They have the normal hp and hardness of whatever type of magic item they are.

Do they gain physical ability scores as animated objects do?

No, because they're not animated objects.

And if they don't, creatures without strength and dexterity scores cannot exert force and cannot move, which means they shouldn't be able to speak either,

Intelligent magical items that can speak presumably do so via magical means.

and having no HDs would die on creation?

I don't think this is the case. As far as I can tell, there isn't a general rule that creatures with zero HD automatically die. Gaining a number of negative levels equal to your HD kills you, true, but that's a property of negative levels, not related to having a specific amount of HD. In theory a creature with no HD might die because it has zero hit points, but magic items gain hit points in a manner unconnected to HD, so that doesn't apply in this case.

If they do get HDs and physical scores as animated objects, can an intelligent dancing weapon be considered a manufactured and natural weapon like the monk unarmed strike?

I don't think so. Animated objects, even those made out of actual weapons, get slam attacks from their nature as animated objects. This suggests that the process by which an animated object attacks is different from the process by which a weapon is used, and therefore that the weapon-esque attacks of a intelligent dancing weapon are just manufactured weapons.

And when wielding or wearing an intelligent item, would you be grappling it? Or would it be riding you?

Neither, I think. Grappling is a mechanically defined situation that is different from wielding a weapon, and the DMG has rules for unusual mounts that I think would disqualify wielding an intelligent weapon as a creature riding a mount.

[animewatcha]

In an interesting dysfunction with the spell, a spellcasting monk could use it on his unarmed strike.

[Saintheart]

In another interesting dysfunction, it arguably gets around a (FRCS) rune's standard action activation time, or possibly allows you to activate 3 runes simultaneously.

Touching a rune triggers the rune in it, and triggering a rune deliberately is a standard action. Runes are themselves magic items, or at least can be scribed on mundane objects. This swift action makes three runes appear in your hand simultaneously, since runes can be on objects as small as ioun stones by RAW. So at the very least all 3 runes go off on touch at once when all 3 appear in your hand - you can hold 3 ioun stones in 1 hand - and ideally they all go off as a swift action since the Swift Ready spell gets you around the standard action activation time, since they activate on touch.

[icefractal]

I was going to ask why Swift Ready even was (Summoning), but on reading the description of the subschool more carefully, it's just weirdly defined.

Creatures:
* Only there for the duration
* Not really dead if killed (but it's not a copy, you are summoning a real-ass creature who really gets stabbed and then regenerates by a special mechanism never mentioned anywhere else; also this only happens if it dies, so if you summon something, poison it severely, throw a bunch of curses on it, then the spell ends, that creature is just ****ed I guess).

Objects:
* Instantaneously moved, doesn't return back
* Really is destroyed if you destroy it

This should just be two separate subschools, IMO. And also summoned creatures should be some kind of copies, it's just goofy the way it works RAW. Like, what does "It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again." mean in the context that the spell doesn't summon specific individuals? If a Celestial Bear dies under your spell, you can't summon any Celestial Bears? Or maybe nobody at all can? Or it does effectively nothing because a different bear just gets summoned instead?

Edit: The more I think about this, the more bizarre the way it RAW works is. If it's the real beings getting sumoned, that's pretty horrific - you could at any point be yoinked from your home and made to follow any orders (Except casting spells with an XP cost; you can have a summoned angel stomp on puppies or a summoned demon studiously fill out paperwork for charity, but asking them to cast a SLA that would have an XP cost it if were a spell? That's over the line). And could someone take over Hell by repeatedly summoning devils, casting brainwashing spells on them so they become loyal sleeper agents, and just repeating that until they controlled thousands? I'm not recommending "if you use summon spells more than a little, a planar goon squad will show up and kill you" as good for the game in the slightest, but it does logically make sense in a world where that's how summoning works.


I mean, in practice, I'd say that Beckon the Frozen just changes the target, not creates one ex-nihilo, and therefore relies on the existence of "Cold Imps" or "Cold Celestial Horses" to be summoned. Since there isn't an existing "my intelligent sword but colder" to summon, it just fails.

But RAW, IDK. It might also depends on what "any summon spell" in BtF means. While it could be read as "any Conjuration (Summoning) spell" it could also be read as "any spell starting with 'Summon'"; it's a rather informal way to specify it.

[Darg]

I was going to ask why Swift Ready even was (Summoning), but on reading the description of the subschool more carefully, it's just weirdly defined.

Creatures:
* Only there for the duration
* Not really dead if killed (but it's not a copy, you are summoning a real-ass creature who really gets stabbed and then regenerates by a special mechanism never mentioned anywhere else; also this only happens if it dies, so if you summon something, poison it severely, throw a bunch of curses on it, then the spell ends, that creature is just ****ed I guess).

Objects:
* Instantaneously moved, doesn't return back
* Really is destroyed if you destroy it

This should just be two separate subschools, IMO. And also summoned creatures should be some kind of copies, it's just goofy the way it works RAW. Like, what does "It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again." mean in the context that the spell doesn't summon specific individuals? If a Celestial Bear dies under your spell, you can't summon any Celestial Bears? Or maybe nobody at all can? Or it does effectively nothing because a different bear just gets summoned instead?

Edit: The more I think about this, the more bizarre the way it RAW works is. If it's the real beings getting sumoned, that's pretty horrific - you could at any point be yoinked from your home and made to follow any orders (Except casting spells with an XP cost; you can have a summoned angel stomp on puppies or a summoned demon studiously fill out paperwork for charity, but asking them to cast a SLA that would have an XP cost it if were a spell? That's over the line). And could someone take over Hell by repeatedly summoning devils, casting brainwashing spells on them so they become loyal sleeper agents, and just repeating that until they controlled thousands? I'm not recommending "if you use summon spells more than a little, a planar goon squad will show up and kill you" as good for the game in the slightest, but it does logically make sense in a world where that's how summoning works.

Because asking it to spend xp is a real cost to the creature where as even dying isn't actually death for the creature when summoned. Not to mention it would break the mechanics of the game. Sometimes you just have to implement rules that limit things.

I mean, in practice, I'd say that Beckon the Frozen just changes the target, not creates one ex-nihilo, and therefore relies on the existence of "Cold Imps" or "Cold Celestial Horses" to be summoned. Since there isn't an existing "my intelligent sword but colder" to summon, it just fails.

But RAW, IDK. It might also depends on what "any summon spell" in BtF means. While it could be read as "any Conjuration (Summoning) spell" it could also be read as "any spell starting with 'Summon'"; it's a rather informal way to specify it.

In the world of frostburn there exists such creatures of the frostfell just as there are celestial/fiendish versions of the creatures you can normally summon. It's a splat book. If you want to use it you adapt the setting to accommodate it.

[icefractal]

In the world of frostburn there exists such creatures of the frostfell just as there are celestial/fiendish versions of the creatures you can normally summon. It's a splat book. If you want to use it you adapt the setting to accommodate it.

Yeah, but saying "there are frostfell regions of the planes where chilly versions of the normal outsiders exist" doesn't imply that "there is a frostfell version of your house where chilly versions of all your possessions that you might summon exist". The latter is a lot more of a setting change (and a sillier one) than the former.

Because asking it to spend xp is a real cost to the creature where as even dying isn't actually death for the creature when summoned. Not to mention it would break the mechanics of the game. Sometimes you just have to implement rules that limit things.

It also applies to using SLAs, which doesn't have a lasting cost. Also you can order a summoned creature to drink poison, which also has a lasting effect RAW.

But yes, it's for game balance. I'm just saying that the flavor they used to explain that balance is bad flavor. An easy improvement would be:
1) You're summoning an astral copy of a creature, not the actual creature.
2) It's not "unwilling" to use XP-costing SLAs, it's physically incapable of using them, the same way it's incapable of using summon abilities it may possess.

[Darg]

Yeah, but saying "there are frostfell regions of the planes where chilly versions of the normal outsiders exist" doesn't imply that "there is a frostfell version of your house where chilly versions of all your possessions that you might summon exist". The latter is a lot more of a setting change (and a sillier one) than the former.

Beckon the Frozen only applies to creatures you summon.

It also applies to using SLAs, which doesn't have a lasting cost. Also you can order a summoned creature to drink poison, which also has a lasting effect RAW.

But yes, it's for game balance. I'm just saying that the flavor they used to explain that balance is bad flavor. An easy improvement would be:
1) You're summoning an astral copy of a creature, not the actual creature.
2) It's not "unwilling" to use XP-costing SLAs, it's physically incapable of using them, the same way it's incapable of using summon abilities it may possess.

I do agree with you, but hindsight is 20/20. It's entirely possible they never thought about how deep discussions of 3e would go over the ways the rules can be a setting appropriate facsimile of physics.