Rainbow Warmage combo does not work by RAW

[Elves]

When a warmage gains access to a new level of spells, he automatically knows all the spells for that level listed on the warmage's spell list. Essentially, his spell list is the same as his spells known list.

Cleric Spell Access: A 10th-level rainbow servant can learn and cast spells from the cleric list, even if they don?t appear on the lists of any spellcasting class he has. Such spells are cast as divine spells if they don't appear on the sorcerer/wizard or bard spell lists.

The typical notion is that getting the cleric spell access ability means that all cleric spells are added to the warmage's spell list, and thus the warmage automatically knows them all and can cast them spontaneously.

The problem here is when you read closely.

"A 10th-level rainbow servant can learn and cast spells from the cleric list, even if they don?t appear on the lists of any spellcasting class he has."

The rainbow servant ability explicitly does not add the cleric spells to your class spell list. It just allows you to learn and cast them even if they are not on your spell list.

This means that far from being uber-powerful for the fixed list casters (beguiler, warmage, dread necro), it is almost useless to them. Because their spells known are the same as their class spell list, allowing them to learn spells that are not on their class spell list is meaningless for them. The only value they get from this class feature is in the following line:

The 10th-level rainbow servant can likewise read scrolls with cleric spells on them and use wands and staffs that contain cleric spells.

Live by the RAW, die by the RAW. Learning from this, we should read closely and not take famous charop combos for granted just because they're well known; oftentimes they are based on sloppy readings of the text. For another example, see my post about Selective Spell antimagic field.

[Crake]

The rainbow servant ability explicitly does not add the cleric spells to your class spell list. It just allows you to learn and cast them even if they are not on your spell list.

You're of the misguided notion that anything can change a class spell list.

Class spell lists are objective and unchanging, but a character's spell list can be change easily and dynamically. And a warmage knows all the spells on their spell list.

Take a read of the advanced learning class feature. It doesn't add it to the class spell list, it adds it to your spell list.

Now, your argument is that rainbow servant lacks the veribage of "is added to your spell list", however, since "spell list" is not actually a glossary defined term, and the functionality of the cleric spell access is identical to having a spell on your character's spell list, we can use common sense to say that, if it walks like a duck, and it looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

[Paragon]

Also, it says, by raw, that a Rainbow Servant can CAST and learn spells. Which, by the "live by raw, die by raw" thing you mention, is a paradox because no class can cast spells they don't have learnt previously

[Elves]

You're of the misguided notion that anything can change a class spell list.

I know there are some things that modify class spell list and which a warmage can use perfectly fine as a result. For example, the Arcane Disciple feat:

"Add the chosen domain's spells to your class list of arcane spells."

Something that adds a spell to "your" list also seems fine. That's not what rainbow servant does though. It lets you learn and cast spells that don't appear on your spell list. For traditional prepared and spontaneous casters, that works perfectly fine. For warmages it does not.

we can use common sense to say that, if it walks like a duck, and it looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Sure, but that's not what's happening here. The text in this case could not be more clear. Whoever thought of this combo just did not read it attentively, and assumed it was doing something other than what it says.

You can argue RAI that the writer was not thinking about this distinction. My take would be to agree that they probably weren't, but the reason they weren't is because for traditional casters it makes no difference. The text doesn't secretly mean something other than what it says, it just wasn't written with nontraditional casters in mind and so no trouble was taken to make it work with their unique rules.

It's a moot point, since charop combos are expected to work RAW.

-----

Interestingly, there's another way in which rainbow servant is bad rather than good for warmage/dread necro/beguiler: the class grants domains, but unlike the Arcane Disciple feat, the rules for gaining domains don't work with their form of spellcasting.

If the noncleric is a spontaneous caster like a sorcerer or favored soul, then she may select a domain spell to add to her spells known whenever she would have an option to choose a new known spell.

They don't choose known spells at all, except through advanced learning, which has its own restriction (wizard evocation spell) that probably overrides the text above. But you could argue that rather than acting perpetually, that restriction establishes the options available and the domain then expands those options, which would at least make the domain spells eligible advanced learning options.


I would also put this in the basket of something where the way a rule is worded is not friendly to nontraditional casters because the writer was likely not thinking about those classes. But like with the other ability, that doesn't mean the text says something other than what it says.

[rohde]

The D&D FAQ v 3.5 from 6/30/208, page 29 has this:

If a warmage (CAr 10) gains access to all the cleric spells though the rainbow servant prestige class (CD 54), does he really have all those spells to choose from each time he casts a spell?
If a warmage takes ten levels of rainbow servant, he adds all of the spells from the cleric spell list to his own spell list and can choose from all of them when he casts spells.

[Darg]

You're of the misguided notion that anything can change a class spell list.

Class spell lists are objective and unchanging, but a character's spell list can be change easily and dynamically. And a warmage knows all the spells on their spell list.

Take a read of the advanced learning class feature. It doesn't add it to the class spell list, it adds it to your spell list.

Now, your argument is that rainbow servant lacks the veribage of "is added to your spell list", however, since "spell list" is not actually a glossary defined term, and the functionality of the cleric spell access is identical to having a spell on your character's spell list, we can use common sense to say that, if it walks like a duck, and it looks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

Your argument is a basis for RAI, but not a RAW argument. WotC is an educated actor. In every other situation where they modify a spell list, they say it. In this case, they do not.

Your "quacks like a duck" argument can be used to say the opposite as well. You have "cleric spell access," the same verbiage used to describe a cleric's domain access. Access to a domain doesn't put the domain list on the cleric's list. So in the same way access to the cleric's spell list does not dump the list on your spell list. It also follows the rules established in the same book for arcane casters to learn and cast domain spells when they get access to them.

I find that a stronger argument, but ultimately rainbow warsnake is so embedded in the popular psyche that any argument against it is facing a social uphill battle.

Also, it says, by raw, that a Rainbow Servant can CAST and learn spells. Which, by the "live by raw, die by raw" thing you mention, is a paradox because no class can cast spells they don't have learnt previously

It's "learn and cast," not "cast and learn." In a normal situation an arcane class would have the opportunity to learn spells as they level. Warmage, beguiler, and dread necromancer do not. Unfortunately they also use the sorcerer's language in their spells ability. Thus they can only cast spontaneously spells they have learned. Cleric Spell Access does not add the spells to the list of known spells, which according to their spells ability is a separate list from any class list.

The D&D FAQ v 3.5 from 6/30/208, page 29 has this:

The FAQ isn't RAW. The FAQ is simply a compilation of rulings by a person who has access to the team. Many of the rulings flout the rules as they have been written to attempt to provide something maybe easier to understand or simply to add them where they don't exist. At best they could help paint RAI. However, at the same time the actor is biased toward making the audience happy rather than truly deciphering rules as they were intended. Sometimes what is intended doesn't make a fun game or interactions were never really thought about in the first place.

[Crake]

Your "quacks like a duck" argument can be used to say the opposite as well. You have "cleric spell access," the same verbiage used to describe a cleric's domain access. Access to a domain doesn't put the domain list on the cleric's list. So in the same way access to the cleric's spell list does not dump the list on your spell list. It also follows the rules established in the same book for arcane casters to learn and cast domain spells when they get access to them.

The issue is that “spell list” is not mechanically defined, so we cant realistically confirm nor deny whether meeting literally all the functional characteristics of having a spell on your spell list qualifies it as being on your spell list, regardless of whether it is explicitly stated as such.

Its a sort of all A are B, but not all B are A, however, we dont have any explicitly stated cases of Bs not being As, just a case of a B that is functionally identical to an A, but not explicitly stated as being an A.

If B is functionally identical to A in all but name, can you really say its not A?

Remember, complete divine was a pretty early written book, so the verbiage of “add x spell to your spell list” may simply not have been cemented as standard at that point.

[Elenian]

So, since Arcane Disciple adds spells to my class's list, if I take the feat as a Warmage it adds the spells to the Warmage class list.

If Jim, on the other side of the world, is also a Warmage, he can spontaneously cast those spells, right, because I've added them to the Warmage list?

Or are there three spell lists- my list, my class list, and 'the' class list?

[Troacctid]

Warmages do actually learn spells. When they gain access to a new level of spells, they learn all spells of that level on their class spell list. So, if nothing else, you should be able to gain access to 8th and 9th level cleric spells.

[Paragon]

It's "learn and cast," not "cast and learn."

Yes and while you read it as a statement that describes steps of an action, it could be read as 2 different options. You can learn on the one side and cast on the other.

If you want to implement (which I don't) that Live by RAW Die by RAW, you can do stuff like this.

My point was mostly attacking that second statement

[holbita]

To be honest, if you live by RAW... you live shortly. The game falls down very quickly if you don't try to understand RAW in context, just quick glance at the glossary is enough to know that this was not written with keywords in mind. You need to understand that they may use 5 different ways to talk about the same thing, if you try to treat each of them as separate ones you will not be able to work with the rules.

[Darg]

The issue is that “spell list” is not mechanically defined, so we cant realistically confirm nor deny whether meeting literally all the functional characteristics of having a spell on your spell list qualifies it as being on your spell list, regardless of whether it is explicitly stated as such.

Its a sort of all A are B, but not all B are A, however, we dont have any explicitly stated cases of Bs not being As, just a case of a B that is functionally identical to an A, but not explicitly stated as being an A.

If B is functionally identical to A in all but name, can you really say its not A?

Remember, complete divine was a pretty early written book, so the verbiage of “add x spell to your spell list” may simply not have been cemented as standard at that point.

I gave an example how having access to another spell list isn't adding it to your spell list by virtue of simple access. Having another possibility already dilutes the certainty of your interpretation. Regardless, the line, "Essentially, his spell list is the same as his spells known list," runs true either way cleric spell access is interpreted. But really, is the ability to access spells not on your list equivalent to having them on your list? This is the real question, and I obviously argue it does not. A low hanging fruit example of this is Anyspell. Just because you have access to those extra spells doesn't mean they are added to your spell list.

So, since Arcane Disciple adds spells to my class's list, if I take the feat as a Warmage it adds the spells to the Warmage class list.

If Jim, on the other side of the world, is also a Warmage, he can spontaneously cast those spells, right, because I've added them to the Warmage list?

Or are there three spell lists- my list, my class list, and 'the' class list?

Baseline everything that is gotten as a feature or an effect for a character is for just that character. Otherwise the rules get crazy and stop working all over the place. It's a slippery slope.

Warmages do actually learn spells. When they gain access to a new level of spells, they learn all spells of that level on their class spell list. So, if nothing else, you should be able to gain access to 8th and 9th level cleric spells.

Except the new spells are on the cleric spell list, not the warmage's spell list. Hence the debate.

[Crake]

A low hanging fruit example of this is Anyspell. Just because you have access to those extra spells doesn't mean they are added to your spell list.

Anyspell doesnt grant you the ability to use spell trigger or spell completion items of said spells the way that cleric spell access does, its not an equivalent example.

[Troacctid]

Except the new spells are on the cleric spell list, not the warmage's spell list. Hence the debate.

Rainbow servant allows you to learn the spells even though they're not on your class spell list. So, when you learn a new level of spells, it should also grant you access to cleric spells of that level. AFAICT, the sticking point in the wording is actually that it doesn't work retroactively for lower spell levels, not that it doesn't work at all.

[Darg]

Rainbow servant allows you to learn the spells even though they're not on your class spell list. So, when you learn a new level of spells, it should also grant you access to cleric spells of that level. AFAICT, the sticking point in the wording is actually that it doesn't work retroactively for lower spell levels, not that it doesn't work at all.

There is a problem with that theory. The three classes in question don't learn spells on their list; they automatically know them. Contrast that with their advanced learning abilities that represent "the result of personal study and experimentation."

[animewatcha]

The typical notion is that getting the cleric spell access ability means that all cleric spells are added to the warmage's spell list, and thus the warmage automatically knows them all and can cast them spontaneously.

The problem here is when you read closely.

"A 10th-level rainbow servant can learn and cast spells from the cleric list, even if they don?t appear on the lists of any spellcasting class he has."

The rainbow servant ability explicitly does not add the cleric spells to your class spell list. It just allows you to learn and cast them even if they are not on your spell list.

This means that far from being uber-powerful for the fixed list casters (beguiler, warmage, dread necro), it is almost useless to them. Because their spells known are the same as their class spell list, allowing them to learn spells that are not on their class spell list is meaningless for them. The only value they get from this class feature is in the following line:




Live by the RAW, die by the RAW. Learning from this, we should read closely and not take famous charop combos for granted just because they're well known; oftentimes they are based on sloppy readings of the text. For another example, see my post about Selective Spell antimagic field.

In the games that you are in, when you have your character cast spells that require attack rolls (touch or not), you are applying non-proficiency penalty (good old -4) to them right? Or even humanoid monks and such to apply non-proficiency penalty to unarmed strikes.

@everyone else: I can connect this to the thread, but need answer from OP.

[Elves]

The D&D FAQ v 3.5 from 6/30/208, page 29 has this:

Thanks for posting this. Like Darg said, many FAQ answers are wrong, but I don't think that means the FAQ is worthless. I think it should be treated as a valid rules source. But it's not errata, so per the primary source rule the original source still takes precedence if the two contradict. In this case, I think that FAQ answer is incorrect because it contradicts something that in the text is clearly stated.

I could see a DM using that answer to justify an RAI-based ruling that the combo works, but RAW I don't think it holds up.

Rainbow servant allows you to learn the spells even though they're not on your class spell list. So, when you learn a new level of spells, it should also grant you access to cleric spells of that level. AFAICT, the sticking point in the wording is actually that it doesn't work retroactively for lower spell levels, not that it doesn't work at all.

I think you're misreading slightly here Troacc.
"When a warmage gains access to a new level of spells, he automatically knows all the spells for that level listed on the warmage's spell list. Essentially, his spell list is the same as his spells known list."

Becoming able to learn a spell is not the same as learning it. In this case, the warmage has no mechanism by which to learn a spell that is not on his spell list. He is able to learn the cleric spells, but has no way to do so -- other than, arguably, advanced learning.

In the games that you are in, when you have your character cast spells that require attack rolls (touch or not), you are applying non-proficiency penalty (good old -4) to them right? Or even humanoid monks and such to apply non-proficiency penalty to unarmed strikes.

Monk US proficiency is a famous gaffe. Touch spells don't incur non-proficiency because touch isn't a weapon. Weaponlike spells in general don't because they aren't weapons either, they simply "function like weapons in certain respects" (RC). But you can certainly find other examples of commonly-ignored dysfunctional rules that would hamper play. The reason we ignore them is because it's common sense to do so. I don't think it's common sense to brush over the rules in order to permit an uber-powerful charop combo.

And as I said to Crake, I don't believe this is a dysfunction; it's just rules text that is unfriendly to warmage because the author likely wasn't even thinking about that niche class. Complaining that it's unfriendly to them is like complaining that it doesn't offer anything to incarnum characters, or that a prestige class with abilities that are good for sorcerers isn't also good for wizards.

[Beni-Kujaku]

Becoming able to learn a spell is not the same as learning it. In this case, the warmage has no mechanism by which to learn a spell that is not on his spell list. He is able to learn the cleric spells, but has no way to do so -- other than, arguably, advanced learning.

Does a wizard have a mechanism by which to learn a spell that is not on his spell list? No more than a Warmage. A Warmage learns all the spells in their list when they level up. A wizard learns 2 spells from their list when they level up‚ then can learn more spells from their list by scribing them. If Rainbow Servant does nothing to a Warmage‚ I'm unsure how you think it works for a wizard.

[Crake]

Does a wizard have a mechanism by which to learn a spell that is not on his spell list? No more than a Warmage. A Warmage learns all the spells in their list when they level up. A wizard learns 2 spells from their list when they level up‚ then can learn more spells from their list by scribing them. If Rainbow Servant does nothing to a Warmage‚ I'm unsure how you think it works for a wizard.

The argument is that it allows them to learn the spells, but doesn't add them to the list, and since warmage's learning mechanism is that it knows all the spells on it's list, then it would follow that the warmage is not given the opportunity to learn those cleric spells.

I disagree with the assessment that the cleric spells are not added to their list though, since cleric spell access has all the functional equivalency of having a spell on your spell list.

[Darg]

A Warmage learns all the spells in their list when they level up.

They do not actually learn spells. They already know them. While your argument may be made for beguiler and dread necromancer, warmage in particular learns all their spells in preparation to be a warmage. Leveling up just gives them the ability to cast spells they've already learned.

Not to mention "automatically knows" is kind of counter to learning something.

gain or acquire knowledge of or skill in (something) by study, experience, or being taught.

[Chronos]

I think the answer to this one might be complementary to the answer to how warmages interact with Versatile Spellcaster. That one says that a first-level warmage with Versatile Spellcaster can use two first-level spell slots to cast one of their second-level spells, because they already know them (and ordinarily can't cast them just because they lack the slots to do so). On the other hand, if they don't already know all their spells, but learn them as soon as they level up, then Versatile Spellcaster wouldn't work, but Rainbow Servant would.

[Elves]

The argument is that it allows them to learn the spells, but doesn't add them to the list, and since warmage's learning mechanism is that it knows all the spells on it's list, then it would follow that the warmage is not given the opportunity to learn those cleric spells.

I disagree with the assessment that the cleric spells are not added to their list though, since cleric spell access has all the functional equivalency of having a spell on your spell list.

Thanks Crake, that's well put. I always appreciate when despite having different readings people can understand each others' arguments.

I think the answer to this one might be complementary to the answer to how warmages interact with Versatile Spellcaster. That one says that a first-level warmage with Versatile Spellcaster can use two first-level spell slots to cast one of their second-level spells, because they already know them (and ordinarily can't cast them just because they lack the slots to do so). On the other hand, if they don't already know all their spells, but learn them as soon as they level up, then Versatile Spellcaster wouldn't work, but Rainbow Servant would.

That Versatile Spellcaster trick doesn't work for warmage, at least not out of the box. "When a warmage gains access to a new level of spells, he automatically knows all the spells for that level listed on the warmage's spell list."

But that doesn't affect the rainbow servant debate. If my OP isn't clear enough, Crake restated it well in the post I just quoted.

[icefractal]

I'm not convinced that "knows" and "learns" are meaningfully different here. A Sorcerer "learns" spells, and then those become part of their "spells known".

[Darg]

I think the answer to this one might be complementary to the answer to how warmages interact with Versatile Spellcaster. That one says that a first-level warmage with Versatile Spellcaster can use two first-level spell slots to cast one of their second-level spells, because they already know them (and ordinarily can't cast them just because they lack the slots to do so). On the other hand, if they don't already know all their spells, but learn them as soon as they level up, then Versatile Spellcaster wouldn't work, but Rainbow Servant would.

Or as the book describes, they learned the spells in their training prior to level 1 and gain access to the ability to use that knowledge when they level up.

Warmages access their magic peculiarly, at least compared to the way wizards, sorcerers, and clerics do. A warmage selects his spells from a limited pool of knowledge that rarely changes. Early in their difficult training, warmages instill deep within themselves the knowledge of all the spells they will ever need. Warmages know fewer spells than wizards and even sorcerers, but the spells they do know are enhanced.

Throughout their training, warmages are forced to wear ponderous garments (meant to familiarize their bodies with the limitations of movement in armor) while drilling constantly with spells, most of which are too high in level to be cast by the student.

Now, beguiler and dread necromancer don't declare that they learned their spells in the same way, or how at all, but considering warmage is the origin of the class type it's reasonable to assume they should work the same way in some fashion. After all, they copy word for word most of the same verbiage.

As for versatile spellcaster it is quite clear. The spells a warmage has knowledge of aren't considered a known spell until the level they'd be able to cast them.

I'm not convinced that "knows" and "learns" are meaningfully different here. A Sorcerer "learns" spells, and then those become part of their "spells known".

Learning is the process and knowing is the result. When the game says a character learns something, it implies that the character goes through the process of learning to make it known. Warmage in particular has already done the learning prior to level 1. They just gain access to the knowledge they had already accumulated prior when they level.

[Crake]

They just gain access to the knowledge they had already accumulated prior when they level.

It would be more accurate to say that they gain the ability to APPLY that knowledge.

Honestly, this entire post makes me lean toward rainbow servant NOT working, but versatile spellcaster almost CERTAINLY working.

Take this line: Essentially, his spell list is the same as his spells known list.

Your spell list includes spells ABOVE your normal level. A level 1 mage can still use a wand of scorching ray, because scorching ray is on their spell list, regardless of being able to cast it or not.

Similarly, a level 1 warmage knows even their 9th level spells, they simply lack the capability to cast them. They knowledge isnt sealed away, or locked somehow, its there, and all they need is the power to apply it, which is something that versatile spellcaster provides

[Darg]

It would be more accurate to say that they gain the ability to APPLY that knowledge.

Honestly, this entire post makes me lean toward rainbow servant NOT working, but versatile spellcaster almost CERTAINLY working.

Take this line: Essentially, his spell list is the same as his spells known list.

Your spell list includes spells ABOVE your normal level. A level 1 mage can still use a wand of scorching ray, because scorching ray is on their spell list, regardless of being able to cast it or not.

Similarly, a level 1 warmage knows even their 9th level spells, they simply lack the capability to cast them. They knowledge isnt sealed away, or locked somehow, its there, and all they need is the power to apply it, which is something that versatile spellcaster provides

I subscribe to the RAW that you can't cast spells of a particular level unless you have the appropriate class level. Versatile Spellcaster doesn't negate that rule (I also prescribe that to DMM to cut the cheese so to speak). But I don't really care to argue that case particularly hard though. The rule is a bit obscure and it isn't always clear where the line is that determines what is in conflict and what is not. I personally err on the side that if there is an understanding that does not conflict then that is the rule.

[Crake]

I subscribe to the RAW that you can't cast spells of a particular level unless you have the appropriate class level.

My arguement to that is that the context of the rule is specifically describing the requirements for getting bonus spell slots from high ability scores. If you can cast a higher level spell through some other means (like the one provided to you by versatile spellcaster), this rule does not forbid that, however, just because you can cast a higher level spell through versatile spellcaster, doesn't mean you'll get a bonus spell slot for that level, because your CLASS level is not high enough to provide a bonus spell slot.

See, and now that I'm thinking about that... it actually kinda ruins a tiny bit of my favourite chameleon build, I always took it to be that, if you had a spell slot, you got bonus spell slots from high ability score, but it seems like that's not enough of a qualifier, so there's no point in getting 7th or 8th level spell slots as a chameleon, you may as well just go all in on 9ths or above for metamagics.

[Elves]

I'm not convinced that "knows" and "learns" are meaningfully different here. A Sorcerer "learns" spells, and then those become part of their "spells known".

That distinction isn't important. It's that being able to learn a spell is obviously different from learning or knowing it -- a sorcerer is able to learn a lot of spells, but only learns and knows a few.

A warmage rainbow servant becomes "able to learn" cleric spells. However, the only spells they learn and know are the spells on their spell list, and rainbow servant doesn't add the cleric spells to their list, so it does them no good. Except in that arguably the cleric spells become eligible advanced learning choices.


BTW, we shouldn't forget that the rainbow servant capstone is still incredibly good -- for wizards. I would probably houserule use of the table version (6/10 casting) rather than the text version because of how good it is.

Honestly, this entire post makes me lean toward rainbow servant NOT working, but versatile spellcaster almost CERTAINLY working.

Take this line: Essentially, his spell list is the same as his spells known list.

Your spell list includes spells ABOVE your normal level. A level 1 mage can still use a wand of scorching ray, baecause scorching ray is on their spell list, regardless of being able to cast it or not.

Again, in light of this quote I don't see how warmage could be interpreted as knowing all their spells from the start: "When a warmage gains access to a new level of spells, he automatically knows all the spells for that level listed on the warmage's spell list."

As for VS, it depends on how you interpret "gains access". Does it mean actually gaining the appropriate class level? Does it mean having a spell slot of that new spell level? Or does VS itself count as a form of access? (You still need to CL boost so you can cast a spell of the higher level.) I lean toward gaining access meaning gaining a spell slot of that level, but the other two readings are plausible.

[Crake]

Again, in light of this quote I don't see how warmage could be interpreted as knowing all their spells from the start: "When a warmage gains access to a new level of spells, he automatically knows all the spells for that level listed on the warmage's spell list."

As for VS, it depends on how you interpret "gains access". Does it mean actually gaining the appropriate class level? Does it mean having a spell slot of that new spell level? Or does VS itself count as a form of access? (You still need to CL boost so you can cast a spell of the higher level.) I lean toward gaining access meaning gaining a spell slot of that level, but the other two readings are plausible.

I was more referring to the flavour text, not any rules text. I personally find, as a DM, that the easiest way to make internally consistent rulings is to understand how something works from an in-universe perspective, rather than adherance to a strict RAW, so that matters far more to me than what the exact wording of the rules are.

It's also part of the reason why I'm not hugely fond of just haphazardly refluffing rules, because while it may be mechanically the same, a refluff can come with drastically different in-universe repercussions.

[Darg]

My arguement to that is that the context of the rule is specifically describing the requirements for getting bonus spell slots from high ability scores. If you can cast a higher level spell through some other means (like the one provided to you by versatile spellcaster), this rule does not forbid that, however, just because you can cast a higher level spell through versatile spellcaster, doesn't mean you'll get a bonus spell slot for that level, because your CLASS level is not high enough to provide a bonus spell slot.

See, and now that I'm thinking about that... it actually kinda ruins a tiny bit of my favourite chameleon build, I always took it to be that, if you had a spell slot, you got bonus spell slots from high ability score, but it seems like that's not enough of a qualifier, so there's no point in getting 7th or 8th level spell slots as a chameleon, you may as well just go all in on 9ths or above for metamagics.

No, it's specifically the ability to cast spells of a particular level:

In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level.

You must be of a high enough class level to cast spells of a given spell level. You can use two spell slots of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher. They come into conflict when trying to cast spells of a higher level than you can normally cast. Unlike precocious apprentice, the feat isn't giving explicit permission to ignore the earlier rule.

Let's give a similar example. The general rule is that you can't apply a metamagic feat twice to the same spell. However, Widen Spell says, "You can alter a burst, emanation, line, or spread shaped spell to increase its area. Any numeric measurements of the spell’s area increase by 100%." The feat says you can do something and it doesn't limit you in the way the general rule does. Should the general rule set boundaries or should the feat's non-limited nature overrule it? Nobody thinks it should and in the same fashion the other conflict shouldn't be ruled differently either. BUT, honestly RAW doesn't state how one should approach these conflicts and the RC only says that "specific trumps general" which would technically negate both of these general rules. Unless, of course, we conclude that the lack of specific address to the conflict itself is a generalization and thus the general rule becomes more specific to the situation than the feats. From my experience, this way of doing things leads to quite a bit of non-cheesy RAW that just works.