OOTS #1299 - The Discussion Thread

[danielxcutter]

I did hear that’s why some regions of China drank tea and had a lot of recipes that don’t use a lot of water.

[arimareiji]

I have to wonder how tea became a thing. Something like this, perhaps?

"Hey, Bert! The puddle under this bush tastes better than the puddle over there."

"Brown water? That's disgusting, Ernie! I'll drink the water with live bugs and green scum! At least we know it isn't poison, and it is high protein as well."

As we now know, evolution picked the tea drinkers.

Or maybe…

"Hey, Bert! I tried boiling some water over a fire with these leaves in it, and my stomach isn't doing backflips any more like it did since another tribe moved upstream! Plus I think it tastes better!"

"Drinking boiled water? That's disgusting, Ernie! I'll keep to my all-natural fresh water!"

[Mordar]

I have to wonder how tea became a thing. Something like this, perhaps?

"Hey, Bert! The puddle under this bush tastes better than the puddle over there."

"Brown water? That's disgusting, Ernie! I'll drink the water with live bugs and green scum! At least we know it isn't poison, and it is high protein as well."

As we now know, evolution picked the tea drinkers.

Or maybe…

"Hey, Bert! I tried boiling some water over a fire with these leaves in it, and my stomach isn't doing backflips any more like it did since another tribe moved upstream! Plus I think it tastes better!"

"Drinking boiled water? That's disgusting, Ernie! I'll keep to my all-natural fresh water!"

Orders of magnitude less weird than "Huh, those monkeys are especially energetic and wakeful after eating those things off that plant. What do you say we grab a bunch (plant things, not monkeys), dry them out just so, hull them, roast them just so, grind them, then dribble really hot water through them in some sort of fibrous porous thing, and then drink the bitter water that comes out? I bet then we'd be just as happy as those monkeys!"

Of course, not only do I not get how someone came up with that plan, I don't get why people want to drink it, must less pay $8US+ for a cup of it filled with stuff to make it taste less horrible. I mean, Coke is right there and only about $1US per can! First person to bring up Mountain Dew gets a electronic zippie.

- M

[gbaji]

Orders of magnitude less weird than "Huh, those monkeys are especially energetic and wakeful after eating those things off that plant. What do you say we grab a bunch (plant things, not monkeys), dry them out just so, hull them, roast them just so, grind them, then dribble really hot water through them in some sort of fibrous porous thing, and then drink the bitter water that comes out? I bet then we'd be just as happy as those monkeys!"

Oh. They may very well have tried the monkeys first...

Of course, not only do I not get how someone came up with that plan, I don't get why people want to drink it, must less pay $8US+ for a cup of it filled with stuff to make it taste less horrible. I mean, Coke is right there and only about $1US per can! First person to bring up Mountain Dew gets a electronic zippie.

Well... if you are paying 8 bucks for a cup of tea/coffee, you are "doing it wrong". Both are quite cheap if you just make it yourself, at home.

On an historical note, steeping stuff in water to extract flavor and other good things (well, and sometimes "bad things" too) is kinda like one of the very first things people learned to do with "stuff", so it's not surprising at all, reallly. And never underestimate the ingenuity of people with a lot of time on their hands, and a need/desire to figure out something to do with just about every single thing that existed around them in nature.

I suspect for early man, they pretty much divided everything around them into two categories:

1. Things I can make stuff with. Refined into "how can I more easily make stuff, or make better stuff?"

2. Things I can eat. Refined into "how can I more easily eat this, or make it better to eat?"

I also think that just about all of the odd methodologies and "how the heck did they think of that?' stuff we look back on, came out of a desire to fit everything into one of those two. Sometimes, requiring quite a bit of work to get them there.

[DavidSh]

I suspect, over the ages, a lot of trial-and-error took place looking for medicinal plants. Matching the shape of parts of the plant with the shape of human body parts can take you only so far. Maybe you lose a few apprentices, but it is valuable to know that the leaves of this kind of holly yield a stimulant, while the leaves of those vines will make you very, very sick.

[Mordar]

Oh. They may very well have tried the monkeys first...

Well... if you are paying 8 bucks for a cup of tea/coffee, you are "doing it wrong". Both are quite cheap if you just make it yourself, at home.

Starbucks and Dutch Bros both called and suggest we're both mistaken (me because I don't drink coffee ever, you because of their clever business model/success).

- M

[KorvinStarmast]

...we're both mistaken (me because I don't drink coffee ever, you because of their clever business model/success).

- M

PT Barnum developed that business model: there's a sucker born every minute.

[Quizatzhaderac]

I don't have the source books, but I'm pretty sure that a red dragon has a huge advantage in grapple over an Allosaurus of the same size category; having a higher strength and a much higher BAB. Although, I've fine with it on "Rule of Cool" grounds.

If Calder was smart he'd be going for Bloodfeast's eyes or jugulars.

If he was less smart, he should be rolling around to (1) try to uses as much of his body to resist the neck grab as possible and (2) encourage the humanoids to keep a little distance.

Wouldn't the most dismissive term be either "Slave" or "You there!"?.

Let's not forget "resource"

Also, Daylight Saving (no s) Time is best time. Y'all can enjoy wallowing in darkness at 5 in afternoon if you want, but I'm all for year-round DST.

Ugg.. Daylight savings is bad enough, don't even get me started on daylight savingnos.

I will decline the term properly only once I can properly decline the actual thing!

San Fransisco, like many things, looks much much better from a distance than up close.

It's an odd thing, but anyone who disappears is said to be seen in San Francisco. It must be a delightful city and possess all the attractions of the next world

[Peelee]

Ugg.. Daylight savings is bad enough, don't even get me started on daylight savingnos.

Look, just because you're a spendthrift with nitrogen doesn't mean that some of us don't want to keep it!

If you won't decline, will you at least conjugate?

[Liquor Box]

England: the country that invaded the world for spices, then didn't like any of them.

As someone from neither USA or UK, I always find this US idea that food in the UK is bad, bland or boring a bit strange.

Just like USA, UK is a multi-cultural society. Borrowed cuisines like Indian are as much a part of UK cuisine as Mexican is a part of US cuisine. English people regularly consume dishes from all over the world, just like Americans. If you are talking about cuisines that are completely locally developed (rather than borrowed or adapted from somewhere else) I would have thought the USA is scaping the barrel as much as UK. In terms of what English people regularly eat, it includes all sorts of international foods (chinese dishes, sushi, pizza etc) just like USA.

[drazen]

Orders of magnitude less weird than "Huh, those monkeys are especially energetic and wakeful after eating those things off that plant. What do you say we grab a bunch (plant things, not monkeys), dry them out just so, hull them, roast them just so, grind them, then dribble really hot water through them in some sort of fibrous porous thing, and then drink the bitter water that comes out? I bet then we'd be just as happy as those monkeys!"

Of course, not only do I not get how someone came up with that plan, I don't get why people want to drink it, must less pay $8US+ for a cup of it filled with stuff to make it taste less horrible. I mean, Coke is right there and only about $1US per can! First person to bring up Mountain Dew gets a electronic zippie.

- M

Some of us have blood sugar issues so a Coke won't cut it (the diet ones taste awful, not an option).

Although I can't stand coffee either, so I'm getting sleepier by the year. 😜

To be relevant... um... would Bloodfeast get a strength or grapple bonus if he was hopped up on caffiene? Or is it like his hit points and he would need an allosaurus sized dose of the stuff to have any effect?

[Tzardok]

As someone from neither USA or UK, I always find this US idea that food in the UK is bad, bland or boring a bit strange.

I don't think that's a US thing. I'm German, yet I "knew" from childhood on that British food is weird and tastes bad (except for steaks. They've got really good steaks there).

[Peelee]

As someone from neither USA or UK, I always find this US idea that food in the UK is bad, bland or boring a bit strange.

It's not a US-specific idea. It's also a prevalent joke in much of Europe.

[Liquor Box]

I don't think that's a US thing. I'm German, yet I "knew" from childhood on that British food is weird and tastes bad (except for steaks. They've got really good steaks there).

Yeah, but I think it's a bit different with the US. Germany has a wide range of national foods that are quite unique, and it seems natural to me for Germans to prefer those things to those uniquely English foods. USA, being a young country, doesn't really have that in the same way. Instead they point to a whole lot of imported and adapted cuisines as being part of their national food makeup (cajun from France, pizzas from italy, mexican etc), but UK has imported/adapted foods as part of their national cuisine in a similar way.

[Mordar]

PT Barnum developed that business model: there's a sucker born every minute.

...but Starbucks coupled it with the "I'll get you to give me money to develop a dependence on giving me money...with whipped cream!" tenet to create a new dominant paradigm.

Some of us have blood sugar issues so a Coke won't cut it (the diet ones taste awful, not an option).

Although I can't stand coffee either, so I'm getting sleepier by the year. 😜

To be relevant... um... would Bloodfeast get a strength or grapple bonus if he was hopped up on caffiene? Or is it like his hit points and he would need an allosaurus sized dose of the stuff to have any effect?

Coke Zero ftw. Not crappy Diet Coke. With the exception of McDonald's "fully loaded" Coke I actually prefer Coke Zero by a significant margin.

Aside: There is a great security camera video of a bear breaking into someone's car (they had a food truck or something similar) and drinking cases of soda...and ignoring the diet varieties.

I think Bloodfeast would have to make a Fortitude save and a Will save. Make the Fortitude save and be able to squeeze a little harder, make the Will save to stay on task.

As someone from neither USA or UK, I always find this US idea that food in the UK is bad, bland or boring a bit strange.

Just like USA, UK is a multi-cultural society. Borrowed cuisines like Indian are as much a part of UK cuisine as Mexican is a part of US cuisine. English people regularly consume dishes from all over the world, just like Americans. If you are talking about cuisines that are completely locally developed (rather than borrowed or adapted from somewhere else) I would have thought the USA is scaping the barrel as much as UK. In terms of what English people regularly eat, it includes all sorts of international foods (chinese dishes, sushi, pizza etc) just like USA.

Yeah, but I think it's a bit different with the US. Germany has a wide range of national foods that are quite unique, and it seems natural to me for Germans to prefer those things to those uniquely English foods. USA, being a young country, doesn't really have that in the same way. Instead they point to a whole lot of imported and adapted cuisines as being part of their national food makeup (cajun from France, pizzas from italy, mexican etc), but UK has imported/adapted foods as part of their national cuisine in a similar way.

Massive adaptation and change. I'm pretty sure both Cajun (and Creole) and French chefs would scoff at the notion that they are the same, and we *know* American pizza is radically different than Italian (though interestingly pineapple is making inroads in Napoli of all places). The US has advanced steak and radically changed most BBQ, so I'd probably say those are pretty iconic. Heck, we even fixed the Hamburger for you!

- M

[Liquor Box]

Massive adaptation and change. I'm pretty sure both Cajun (and Creole) and French chefs would scoff at the notion that they are the same, and we *know* American pizza is radically different than Italian (though interestingly pineapple is making inroads in Napoli of all places). The US has advanced steak and radically changed most BBQ, so I'd probably say those are pretty iconic. Heck, we even fixed the Hamburger for you!

- M

Same for curries in UK:
"Restaurants in Great Britain use South Asian terms to identify popular dishes. Although the names derive from traditional South Asian dishes, the recipes have often been adapted to suit western tastes."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry_...onal%20dish%22.

[brian 333]

... (cajun from France...

[Pedantic Rant] Cajun cuisine derives from indigenous American cuisine assaulted by Patois and Spanish speakers primarily from the Caribbean region who brought Mexican influences along with African traditions and foods further modified in the Creole culture. It was not until after the Revolutions, (American and French,) that the French speaking refugees into the former French colonies tried to reclaim Cajun cuisine, and by then about all they could do was adjust the proportions of the spices. Cajuns consequently ignored these modifications, and went right on eating African okra, Mexican beans, and Caribbean spices with their native American seafood and game. [/Pedantic Rant]

[Pherick]

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! This is effing awesome!!!

[gbaji]

PT Barnum developed that business model: there's a sucker born every minute.

Well... darnit. Now I've got the Killer Klowns song in my head. Thanks... er... alot!

As someone from neither USA or UK, I always find this US idea that food in the UK is bad, bland or boring a bit strange.

Just like USA, UK is a multi-cultural society. Borrowed cuisines like Indian are as much a part of UK cuisine as Mexican is a part of US cuisine. English people regularly consume dishes from all over the world, just like Americans. If you are talking about cuisines that are completely locally developed (rather than borrowed or adapted from somewhere else) I would have thought the USA is scaping the barrel as much as UK. In terms of what English people regularly eat, it includes all sorts of international foods (chinese dishes, sushi, pizza etc) just like USA.

Right.. But given US historical origins and whatnot, we tend to associate the concept of "food from the UK" as all the boring staple kind of stuff that we don't associate with the broader cultural cuisine that both countries actually eat. So to us, Indian food is Inidan food. Asian food is Asian food. French, Italian, Persian/ME, African, etc... all associated with those other regions/countries.

Which, when we eliminate all of those, leaves us with what's left. Which is what we think of as "UK/British food". So.... Um.... stew? Various varieties of porridge? Totally not fair at all, but there you have it. And to be even less fair, we tend to zero in on the british even more for mediocrity by associating things like shepherd's pie and bangers and mash with Irish, and heck... even the Scottish get haggis, which at least checks the "exotic" box.

So yeah. Fair or not, anything boring and bland that we eat, we just kinda assume came to us from England. Just another in a long list of reasons to give ol King George the boot, I guess. Heck. We don't even give the English credit for our beer (and that's kinda sad given the origin and state of traditional US domestic beer, so that might actually be a positive for the UK, in a backhanded way, come to think of it).

[bunsen_h]

Orders of magnitude less weird than "Huh, those monkeys are especially energetic and wakeful after eating those things off that plant. What do you say we grab a bunch (plant things, not monkeys), dry them out just so, hull them, roast them just so, grind them, then dribble really hot water through them in some sort of fibrous porous thing, and then drink the bitter water that comes out? I bet then we'd be just as happy as those monkeys!"

FWIW, the coffee fruit is edible, so that would have been an obvious starting point. After that, people would experiment with cooking them, and parts of them, in various ways. For me, the real question is how people get past the disappointment of how the coffee beverage tastes compared to how the roasted seeds smell. (And, of course, the weird cult that has evolved that makes people think that stuff like civet coffee is a good idea.)

[Liquor Box]

[Pedantic Rant] Cajun cuisine derives from indigenous American cuisine assaulted by Patios and Spanish speakers primarily from the Caribbean region who brought Mexican influences along with African traditions and foods further modified in the Creole culture. It was not until after the Revolutions, (American and French,) that the French speaking refugees into the former French colonies tried to reclaim Cajun cuisine, and by then about all they could do was adjust the proportions of the spices. Cajuns consequently ignored these modifications, and went right on eating African okra, Mexican beans, and Caribbean spices with their native American seafood and game. [/Pedantic Rant]

This thinks it's from French Canada, and later made it's way to Louisiana.
https://boudreauxscajungrill.com/wha...0New%20Orleans.

But I'm aware that there are lots of disputes about where different dishes come from, so if this conflicts with other accounts, I can only shrug my shoulders.

Right.. But given US historical origins and whatnot, we tend to associate the concept of "food from the UK" as all the boring staple kind of stuff that we don't associate with the broader cultural cuisine that both countries actually eat. So to us, Indian food is Inidan food. Asian food is Asian food. French, Italian, Persian/ME, African, etc... all associated with those other regions/countries.

Which, when we eliminate all of those, leaves us with what's left. Which is what we think of as "UK/British food". So.... Um.... stew? Various varieties of porridge? Totally not fair at all, but there you have it. And to be even less fair, we tend to zero in on the british even more for mediocrity by associating things like shepherd's pie and bangers and mash with Irish, and heck... even the Scottish get haggis, which at least checks the "exotic" box.

So yeah. Fair or not, anything boring and bland that we eat, we just kinda assume came to us from England. Just another in a long list of reasons to give ol King George the boot, I guess. Heck. We don't even give the English credit for our beer (and that's kinda sad given the origin and state of traditional US domestic beer, so that might actually be a positive for the UK, in a backhanded way, come to think of it).

I think you're probably right that that explains the reason that Americans see it that way. I guess, I kind on think of pizza/mexican and other adapted foods as not being US foods for the same reason. But It just seems an inconsistent approach to take to see mexican or pizzas as american, but not curries as British.

Other things that I think that UK would claim as British and not adapted or imported (or at least not in the last few hundred years) is the roast meal, bacon and eggs for breakfast, fried fish and chips and apple pie alongside various other less well know dishes (like Yorkshire pudding etc). I suspect the ones USA has adopted (like apple pie) it also no longer associates as English, and the ones it has not (like Yorkshire pudding) it still thinks of as English; exacerbating the perception - the most popular English dishes (even excluding adapted dishes like curry) like apple pie are not credited to the British, but are instead seen as international, leaving only the ones USA did not adopt.

[arimareiji]

[Pedantic Rant] Cajun cuisine derives from indigenous American cuisine assaulted by Patios and Spanish speakers

Spoiler: snipped for space

Show

primarily from the Caribbean region who brought Mexican influences along with African traditions and foods further modified in the Creole culture. It was not until after the Revolutions, (American and French,) that the French speaking refugees into the former French colonies tried to reclaim Cajun cuisine, and by then about all they could do was adjust the proportions of the spices. Cajuns consequently ignored these modifications, and went right on eating African okra, Mexican beans, and Caribbean spices with their native American seafood and game. [/Pedantic Rant]

First and foremost, all my sympathies on the autocorrupt.

Second, because I can't resist: Geez, what is with the murderous lawn-lounging spaces? I thought the gazebo that ate Eric was bad, but…

[brian 333]

I swear I spelled it Patois!

[arimareiji]

I swear I spelled it Patois!

I >98% believe* you (and already believed it >95% likely when I posted). It exasperates me when I see autocorrupt take a properly-spelled word and change it to the wrong word, because the wrong word is more common.

It's like the old Microsoft paper clip, on steroids. "Hi, I think you're doing X. Would you like me to reformat it for you that way? Too bad, I already did it and good luck undoing it" … except autocorrupt doesn't even tell you, it just does it (and you have to catch it, despite our brains being likely to misread any cobmination of the same lettres as the exectped word, if they strat and end with the same letter).

* - And the <2% is only because you might be playfully expressing exasperation about your brain accidentally autocorrupting you, versus a computer doing it.

[fuschiawarrior]

I think you all underestimate humans determination to find a way to eat/ drink/ consume all of the things. As an example, cassava/ manioc is a tuber root that contains cyanide levels sometimes high enough to severely injure and even kill a person. It's also a staple food in large part of the world and here it is a long list of dishes that uses it as an ingredient. People would figure out how to consume coffee beans or tea leaves because we love to eat weird plants.

[Zephyr]

1. Great actions sequence.
2. Minrah: what spell is she casting? Protection from Evil?

I think it's Mind Blank.

[danielxcutter]

Clerics don't have that without specific domains and she's not even remotely high enough level to cast it even if Thor does supply one. Also, Protection from Evil does that perfectly well anyways.

[Kardwill]

I think it's Mind Blank.

Roy asked her to cast protection from evil in the previous comic, so I'm pretty sure it's that spell.

And hey, why cast a level 8 spell when a level 1 will do just fine?

[danielxcutter]

Protection against <Alignment> in general does extremely well at protecting against mind-control abilities. Mind Blank's just the primarily notable option for high-level characters for the following reasons:

• Protection against <Alignment> has a shorter duration than Mind Blank, which lasts 24 hours.
• Mind Blank protects against mind-affecting abilities that aren't mind-control-ish, like the psychic attack that Lauren used during the Vector Legion fight, or certain illusion spells.
• It also makes it impossible to use divinations and similar abilities to scry on the subject, although divine beings, epic magic, and arguably a very specific 9th-level psionic power can get around it. (For the record, Wish and Miracle can't bypass it.) This is an oft-overlooked and arguably much more minor benefit than the mental protection part, but it's still nice to have.

Still, spending an 8th-level slot on everyone would be a strain on resources for even far better optimized 3.5e parties around the Order's level, especially with so many sidekicks. There are actually items that provide Mind Blank effects for the wearer, even 24/7, but those are quite expensive. Calder might know this, but he probably also knew that if Haley wasn't lying - or even if she was, since mind-control abilities universally allow saving throws and thus aren't guaranteed to work - he'd have wasted a standard action when he's already so disadvantaged in terms of action economy.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yeah, but I think it's a bit different with the US. Germany has a wide range of national foods that are quite unique, and it seems natural to me for Germans to prefer those things to those uniquely English foods. USA, being a young country, doesn't really have that in the same way.

Brisket called, and reminds you that you need to learn a bit more about American cuisine.
(Maize/Corn and Hominy being two native agricultural products).