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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SangoProduction's Avatar

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    Default Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    In 3.5, we have Use Magic Item, which lets us emulate, for the purposes of magic items, our alignment, race, and even spellcasting ability. All without costly (or even any, strictly RAW, material components or tools).

    How does one go about emulating Evil, without being Evil, for the purpose of an unholy executioner's axe.
    Or emulate being an Orc for.... honestly, I don't know of a single orc-based magic item, but assume there's one.

    Diegetically, of course.
    Last edited by SangoProduction; 2024-03-21 at 02:17 AM.

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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    In 3.5, we have Use Magic Item, which lets us emulate, for the purposes of magic items, our alignment, race, and even spellcasting ability. All without costly (or even any, strictly RAW, material components or tools).

    How does one go about emulating Evil, without being Evil, for the purpose of an unholy executioner's axe.
    Or emulate being an Orc for.... honestly, I don't know of a single orc-based magic item, but assume there's one.

    Diegetically, of course.
    I mean, the rules for it are right in the UMD skill description, are you looking for something more?
    World of Madius wiki - My personal campaign setting, including my homebrew Optional Gestalt/LA rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Playing a wizard the way GitP says wizards should be played requires the equivalent time and effort investment of a university minor. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole, or are you comfortable with just throwing a souped-up Orb of Fire at the thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Humans are rarely truly irrational, just wrong.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Probably the items also don't know how to determine that so you engange in a philosophical debate until they are too confused to resist ..? Basically every check on use magic device would be similar to a brute force hacking attack so the device will just activate out of confusion 🤷
    😉

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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    I mean, the rules for it are right in the UMD skill description, are you looking for something more?
    Diegetically: relating to artistic elements that are perceived as existing within the world depicted in a narrative work.
    Basically, in-world explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Curse View Post
    Probably the items also don't know how to determine that so you engange in a philosophical debate until they are too confused to resist ..? Basically every check on use magic device would be similar to a brute force hacking attack so the device will just activate out of confusion 🤷
    😉
    That got a giggle out of me. I like it.
    Last edited by SangoProduction; 2024-03-21 at 02:28 AM.

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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Its about mentally lying to the item hard enough that it believes you. You hold The Doom Sword of Baby Killing and think really hard about killing babies until it goes "Damn thats one babykillin dude sounds dope im in" but yknow in terms of your aura and crap.
    I Am A:Neutral Good Human Bard/Sorcerer (2nd/1st Level)
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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Haven't really thought about this one, but I'd go with -

    People emit various auras, constantly. It's an automatic process, like your heart beating, but in the same way that yogis can consciously control their heart rate, you can consciously control (with some difficulty, hence the skill check) your aura emission.

    However, the part that's weird is that it can't be used to fool spells like Detect Evil. Possibly you can only control your aura emission in regards to a specific non-sentient receiver? Except then it still seems like UMD should be able to fool magic traps ... which maybe it can if they count as magic items and you know they're there? If UMD weren't already one of the best skills, I'd just add "divination fooling" to it, but it is.

    I suppose you could say that the divinations are picking up a different form of aura than the ones which govern magic item interactions, or the divinations are more sensitive and don't get fooled?
    Last edited by icefractal; 2024-03-21 at 03:12 AM.

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    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    I don't know of a single orc-based magic item, but assume there's one.
    Amulet of Wordtwisting (MIC p71). Not particularly relevant to the discussion, I just wanted to play with the big kids.

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    Devil

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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    You force your will on the item, similiar to how you force your will on people with Intimidate.

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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Diegetically: relating to artistic elements that are perceived as existing within the world depicted in a narrative work.
    Basically, in-world explanation.
    Ooooh, thanks for the explanation, that's my new word of the day!

    To the topic though, hmm... That's a curious thought. Alignment, I think, is easy enough, just project a different moral outlook when using the item, but... race? That one's a little harder to explain I guess. I imagine it would have something to do with manipulating the "code" of the item, sort of like, how a hacker might use a stolen session ID to pose as another person, but I guess that just comes under mAgIc which isn't really a helpful answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazyan View Post
    Playing a wizard the way GitP says wizards should be played requires the equivalent time and effort investment of a university minor. Do you really want to go down this rabbit hole, or are you comfortable with just throwing a souped-up Orb of Fire at the thing?
    Quote Originally Posted by atemu1234 View Post
    Humans are rarely truly irrational, just wrong.

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    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    but I guess that just comes under mAgIc which isn't really a helpful answer.

    Nah, comrade, It's tricking the magic into doin' the magic for someone it shouldn't be doin' the magic for. Fiddlin' the weave just so in a way more native to the species, or class, or whatever in question.

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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Maybe you can't change the sum total of your aura, but you can stir it around a bit, so while you're wielding the Doom Axe of Babykilling, you shift all of the negative parts of your aura into your hand that's holding the axe, leaving the rest of your aura over the rest of your body a little bit good-er in comparison.

    As for emulating race, I think that for that, you'd first have to explain how the item interacts with race to begin with. Which might be different for different items.
    Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Activating a magic item like a wand is relatively easy. You wave it around and try the 20 or so most common command words (wizards aren't nearly as clever as they think they are, and the 9 times out of 10 the password is something obvious like "Mordenkainen" or "I'm batman").

    Emulating an alignment (or race, or class) is a bit more esoteric. It's all about getting into the right frame of mind.
    Tricking an item into thinking you're evil isn't so much thinking ugly thoughts, or adopting the right mannerisms (although a lot of people will do that and it seems to help them), it's more changing the way you see yourself and changing the way you see the world.
    It's the vibe of the thing.
    Fundamentally, the magic item is trying to look inside you and decide if you measure up. Emulation is about showing the item what it wants to see.
    I am rel.

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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crake View Post
    Ooooh, thanks for the explanation, that's my new word of the day!

    To the topic though, hmm... That's a curious thought. Alignment, I think, is easy enough, just project a different moral outlook when using the item, but... race? That one's a little harder to explain I guess. I imagine it would have something to do with manipulating the "code" of the item, sort of like, how a hacker might use a stolen session ID to pose as another person, but I guess that just comes under mAgIc which isn't really a helpful answer.
    I've always thought of it as hacking/programming.

    It's like the wand or whatever has embedded code:

    DetectUserRace
    IF User.Race = Elf THEN UnlockAllAbilities ELSE DeleteUser


    When doing UMD you're just inserting a line between the two lines above:

    SET User.Race = Elf

    The coding part is simple; the tricky bit is getting in to the point that you're able to modify its code. Likewise, programming the code to activate and use magical sensors to correctly execute DetectUserRace was much harder than writing the wand activation code.
    Last edited by RexDart; 2024-03-22 at 09:31 AM.

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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    In 3.5, we have Use Magic Item, which lets us emulate, for the purposes of magic items, our alignment, race, and even spellcasting ability. All without costly (or even any, strictly RAW, material components or tools).

    How does one go about emulating Evil, without being Evil, for the purpose of an unholy executioner's axe.
    Or emulate being an Orc for.... honestly, I don't know of a single orc-based magic item, but assume there's one.

    Diegetically, of course.
    If you have Use Magic Device skill, you are well practiced in the art of making magic devices do what you want them to do. This may seem like a magical power in its own right, but it really isn't; it's just an extraordinary skill. In a world in which magic is real and non-magical beings have to cope with it, everybody has some power at least to resist magic. This is what saving throws are all about. When you acquire Use Magic Device skill, you merely develop your natural magic resistance a few steps further through conscious practice. Instead of merely resisting magic, you learn to manipulate it to do what you want it to do.

    But the theory of how Use Magic Item skill works is easy to explain. Putting it into actual practice is harder.

    Probably, some kind of advanced play-acting is involved. You stretch as tall as you can and raise your arms to pretend that you are a giant, or you crouch down low to pretend that you are a halfling. You add other gestures to specify race in other ways. To be a dwarf, stick out your elbows and scowl; to be an elf, make every move a dance move; to be a gnome, giggle a lot; to be a halfling, smack your lips and think about elevenses. To be an orc, say "Orc smash!" It probably works better (and sounds better) if you say it in Orkish; thus, knowing a few orkish phrases, for the purpose of getting the most out of magic weapons designed for orcs, probably belongs to Use Magic Device skill.

    But the way you look to observers – who may think you've gone crazy – isn't what really matters. What matters is the impression that you make on the magic item itself. A performance that looks cheesy and hammy to all Humanoid observers may look and feel like pure genius to the Dwarven Thrower that you hold in your hand, which, after all, is a non-intelligent object without any esthetic taste. It may love your performance merely because you flatter it and pretend to give it what it really, really wants, which is to be wielded by the dwarfiest dwarf who ever dwarfed.

    But what if your imitation of a dwarf falls flat and the Dwarven Thrower is insulted? Well, this can happen. Indeed, it does happen if you score a "natural one" on your Use Magic Device check. Fortunately, the Dwarven Thrower forgets the insult after 24 hours, so that you can try again tomorrow.

    All of this works in the way that it does because this is how magic works. Although I have spoken of a Dwarven Thrower as if this unconscious tool had a conscious mind, actually it doesn't. However, it still responds toward a skilled wielder with Use Magic Device skill as if it had a conscious mind. Don't over-think it; if you do, you're likely to fail. Success in Use Magic Device skill involves Charisma and practice, not any deep understanding. It's an art and not a science.

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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke of Urrel View Post
    If you have Use Magic Device skill, you are well practiced in the art of making magic devices do what you want them to do. This may seem like a magical power in its own right, but it really isn't; it's just an extraordinary skill. In a world in which magic is real and non-magical beings have to cope with it, everybody has some power at least to resist magic. This is what saving throws are all about. When you acquire Use Magic Device skill, you merely develop your natural magic resistance a few steps further through conscious practice. Instead of merely resisting magic, you learn to manipulate it to do what you want it to do.

    But the theory of how Use Magic Item skill works is easy to explain. Putting it into actual practice is harder.

    Probably, some kind of advanced play-acting is involved. You stretch as tall as you can and raise your arms to pretend that you are a giant, or you crouch down low to pretend that you are a halfling. You add other gestures to specify race in other ways. To be a dwarf, stick out your elbows and scowl; to be an elf, make every move a dance move; to be a gnome, giggle a lot; to be a halfling, smack your lips and think about elevenses. To be an orc, say "Orc smash!" It probably works better (and sounds better) if you say it in Orkish; thus, knowing a few orkish phrases, for the purpose of getting the most out of magic weapons designed for orcs, probably belongs to Use Magic Device skill.

    But the way you look to observers – who may think you've gone crazy – isn't what really matters. What matters is the impression that you make on the magic item itself. A performance that looks cheesy and hammy to all Humanoid observers may look and feel like pure genius to the Dwarven Thrower that you hold in your hand, which, after all, is a non-intelligent object without any esthetic taste. It may love your performance merely because you flatter it and pretend to give it what it really, really wants, which is to be wielded by the dwarfiest dwarf who ever dwarfed.

    But what if your imitation of a dwarf falls flat and the Dwarven Thrower is insulted? Well, this can happen. Indeed, it does happen if you score a "natural one" on your Use Magic Device check. Fortunately, the Dwarven Thrower forgets the insult after 24 hours, so that you can try again tomorrow.

    All of this works in the way that it does because this is how magic works. Although I have spoken of a Dwarven Thrower as if this unconscious tool had a conscious mind, actually it doesn't. However, it still responds toward a skilled wielder with Use Magic Device skill as if it had a conscious mind. Don't over-think it; if you do, you're likely to fail. Success in Use Magic Device skill involves Charisma and practice, not any deep understanding. It's an art and not a science.
    And with that, I'll declare the thread won.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Use Magic Item, Emulation, and You.

    I disagree on the grounds that it's making the common mistake of not saying roll a natural one and fail. Because if you have the ranks, Cha mod, and bonuses to get to or over the DC on a natural one you still succeed. Unlike attacks and saving throws, nat 20s aren't automatic successes and nat 1s aren't automatic failures.

    It's otherwise a pretty fun description.

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