Is Hex worth it at high levels?

[notthegiant]

I was wondering about Hex. It's a great spell for low-level Warlocks, but upcasting it only affects the duration, which won't matter too much in combat. Is burning a 5th level slot for a 1st level effect worth it when you could cast something like Summon Aberration or Hold Monster instead?

[KorvinStarmast]

I was wondering about Hex. It's a great spell for low-level Warlocks, but upcasting it only affects the duration, which won't matter too much in combat. Is burning a 5th level slot for a 1st level effect worth it when you could cast something like Summon Aberration or Hold Monster instead?

It really depends on the campaign that you are in and how many fights per day you tend to have. That's my experience.

[Skrum]

After trying to use it over several different characters, I've concluded that hex is not worth it - especially on a warlock. Basically, the only time it's viable both for the spell slot and the concentration it takes, the fight is easy enough that you doing an extra d6 doesn't matter.

The theoretical use of "cast it in the morning and rest to get slots back" never actually happens. Either it gets dropped due to damage, or you voluntarily drop it to cast something way better.

Niche use of the disadvantage on an ability check is the only time I use it. Like maybe I really have to grapple something. That's it. I would not recommend using it.

[Unoriginal]

I was wondering about Hex. It's a great spell for low-level Warlocks, but upcasting it only affects the duration, which won't matter too much in combat. Is burning a 5th level slot for a 1st level effect worth it when you could cast something like Summon Aberration or Hold Monster instead?

It's not worth it the overwhelming majority of the time, but there are a few cases where it can be more useful than the other options.

[Witty Username]

3rd-5th level spells are real good, and warlock doesn't get lower level slots,
This means hex is pretty niche. I wouldn't say useless, as it can come up over multiple fights pretty regularly,* but most of the time you will have something better to do from hypnotic pattern to a summon to counterspelling to fireball spam. Hex is when you have a slot to use and not much better stuff to use it for. Kinda like bless in all honesty, it is not big but it is something, and something is better than nothing.



*hot take, if you are taking fire to break concentration on hex, your winning.

[Chronos]

If the party tank is taking fire, they're winning. You're one of the squishies. You don't want to be the one taking fire.

And yeah, there are some niche situations where it's the best spell. But you have a limited number of spells known. Are those situations common enough to be worth spending one of your spells known on it? Because if not, then the number of situations where it's useful goes from few to none.

Now, if you're, say, a fighter with Magic Initiate, then it might be appealing. You don't have much else to use your concentration on, you're likely to make the concentration saves, you want to be drawing fire anyway, and you're always going to be attacking anyway. And maybe for a multiclassed warlock, so you have the option of using first-level slots on it, and have more spells known to choose from. But not on a straight warlock.

[Witty Username]

If the party tank is taking fire, they're winning. You're one of the squishies. You don't want to be the one taking fire.

Tanking is contextual, and who is doing what is an important part of this question.

For example, take a barbarian and a warlock. The raging barbarian definitely has more HP than the warlock, but AC won't be all that different and damage will usually be in the barbarian's corner. In this case the barbarian might be the one to draw fire from rather than towards.
Also other casters, summons, spirit guardians, battlefield control spells. A warlock isn't the only party member. Generally a warlock concentating on hex is efficient but low impact, if a smuck runs through a spirt guardians to hit you, they should question every life decision that brought them to this point.

This also touches on positioning, generally enemies won't be just picking targets from a buffet, they will be repositioning, either losing actions to dash, absorbing opportunity attacks, etc. If an enemy is taking this stuff over a hex, you are gaining more than losing.

And the last thing, in any combat that goes pear shaped, pivoting is important, a full health wizard is better a tanking than a fighter that has eaten several rounds of combat and is hitting the single digits HP, take your beats and make your short rest dice actually do something. Hex is a decent spell choice here where health pools are probably getting low to make the d6 worth, and concentration works like a threat tool. Other things can still be better but its something.

[Kane0]

Hex is alright, neither a complete waste nor a gamechanger. As you level your precious concentration will face more and more competition, especially so on a warlock which can very realistically end up spending only one slot for an entire combat encounter.

[Unoriginal]

Tanking is contextual, and who is doing what is an important part of this question.

For example, take a barbarian and a warlock. The raging barbarian definitely has more HP than the warlock, but AC won't be all that different and damage will usually be in the barbarian's corner. In this case the barbarian might be the one to draw fire from rather than towards.
Also other casters, summons, spirit guardians, battlefield control spells. A warlock isn't the only party member. Generally a warlock concentating on hex is efficient but low impact, if a smuck runs through a spirt guardians to hit you, they should question every life decision that brought them to this point.

This also touches on positioning, generally enemies won't be just picking targets from a buffet, they will be repositioning, either losing actions to dash, absorbing opportunity attacks, etc. If an enemy is taking this stuff over a hex, you are gaining more than losing.

And the last thing, in any combat that goes pear shaped, pivoting is important, a full health wizard is better a tanking than a fighter that has eaten several rounds of combat and is hitting the single digits HP, take your beats and make your short rest dice actually do something. Hex is a decent spell choice here where health pools are probably getting low to make the d6 worth, and concentration works like a threat tool. Other things can still be better but its something.

I once played in an one-shot where I had the Barbarian and the other player had the Warlock. IIRC we were 3rd level.

Long story short, the Warlock keeping Hex on the boss was key to our victory, but so was the Barbarian keeping the boss grappled and away from the Warlock.

Was great teamwork.

[JackPhoenix]

It's not worth it in combat. Now, the no-save disadvantage on certain type of ability checks (most likely Wis, for both Perception and Insight)? That's a different matter.

[RedMage125]

I once played in an one-shot where I had the Barbarian and the other player had the Warlock. IIRC we were 3rd level.

Long story short, the Warlock keeping Hex on the boss was key to our victory, but so was the Barbarian keeping the boss grappled and away from the Warlock.

Was great teamwork.

I pulled the same trick when 5e was new. Warlock Hexed the largest opponent on the field, and my dragonborn Valor Bard Grappled him while the rest of the team took out all the mooks. Then we stomped the big guy.

[notthegiant]

It's not worth it in combat. Now, the no-save disadvantage on certain type of ability checks (most likely Wis, for both Perception and Insight)? That's a different matter.

I'm laughing imagining someone casting Charisma-Hex on a noble or politician on the day of a big speech or debate and watching them stumble over their words. You could probably get some good money out of that if you're hired by a rival of theirs.

[Unoriginal]

I'm laughing imagining someone casting Charisma-Hex on a noble or politician on the day of a big speech or debate and watching them stumble over their words. You could probably get some good money out of that if you're hired by a rival of theirs.

If you can do it without the Hex being detected, and/or identified as yours.

[JackPhoenix]

If you can do it without the Hex being detected, and/or identified as yours.

Step 1: Hex a chicken in private.
Step 2: Sacrifice the chicken.
Step 3: Keep concentrating
Step 4: Move the curse on the intended target without having to cast a spell.

[KorvinStarmast]

It's not worth it in combat. Now, the no-save disadvantage on certain type of ability checks (most likely Wis, for both Perception and Insight)? That's a different matter.

The damage boost is OK if one has extra attack. But I agree with you that the disadvantage on ability checks can be very useful.

Athletics is a good one to pull this on. Either the Lock or the allied fighter can push/shove/grapple ETC with more chances for success.

There's another way to get a lot out of hex.

If we include the Tasha's material, there's an invocation that gives advantage on Con saves for concentration. (Eldritch Mind)
If we take a feat to Ret resilient Con, you warlock has proficiency and advantage on con saves.

Toss in Skill Expert (later in life) to get expertise in Athletics.

The above idea is probably most useful on a Pact of the Blade build ... but if you put this all together the chances for keeping concentration up are substantially increased so that Hex lasts for a long time in most cases.

If you've got a MC Warlock/Fighter, and get the extra attack from fighter, you can occasionally do a little nova with 2 or 3 attacks on your action surge flurry if you have hex up.

I've used Hex from a feat in that regard on a paladin, and I very good success with knocking enemies down and then smiting them.

I am getting more utility out of it now. Fighter 12 (at the moment) Warlock 3 (Genie) with a Fey Touched feat. (While I can now get Hex as a warlock spell, at the moment I am using other spells. When my rune knight gets to large size, he's got advantage on Atheltics checks. He's got good strength. Even with a lot of the foes having decent strength, me having advantage and them having disadvantage usually results in me knocking the prone or shoving them out of the way. And if I need to "nova" the knock prone, two attacks, then three attacks with the action surge all have the damage rider on them.

Spoiler: What spell am I tending to use more often?

Show

What spell is usually up for concentration at this point? Currently, protection from Evil and Good. I have natural proficiency in Con saves, and I took the invocation for advantage, and we've been facing a substantial number of aberrations, fey, fiends, elementals, undead. Keeping that concentration up is handy when I am trying to take versus those kinds of enemies.

For a pure warlock? the extra D6 added to their attacks is nice, but not earth shaking.

Step 1: Hex a chicken in private.
Step 2: Sacrifice the chicken.
Step 3: Keep concentrating
Step 4: Move the curse on the intended target without having to cast a spell.

Brilliant plan (though the rat from one's usual bag of rats may be good enough, or one's familiar ...)
With the chicken, you also get a nice dinner out of it...

[JackPhoenix]

Brilliant plan (though the rat from one's usual bag of rats may be good enough, or one's familiar ...)
With the chicken, you also get a nice dinner out of it...

It's true bag of rats is the traditional answer in D&D, but black roosters also have a long history in being used that way. And you can buy chickens for 2cp, you have to catch rats on your own. Unless you use your own familiar. You monster.

[Sigreid]

Whether it's worth it depends on whether your group has a way to take advantage of the disadvantage via grappling, traps or speech checks or whatever.

[Theodoxus]

It's true bag of rats is the traditional answer in D&D, but black roosters also have a long history in being used that way. And you can buy chickens for 2cp, you have to catch rats on your own. Unless you use your own familiar. You monster.

"Charlie Combover, you know the plan. We're gonna get rich if Duke Machinations gets elected, and the best way to do that is if I Hex Lord Proudpants. So, I promise, I'll use some of the funds the Duke is providing to summon you back, mmkay?"

I suppose it's a little better than convincing the beastmaster to sacrifice his donkey, or whatever.

[Sigreid]

"Charlie Combover, you know the plan. We're gonna get rich if Duke Machinations gets elected, and the best way to do that is if I Hex Lord Proudpants. So, I promise, I'll use some of the funds the Duke is providing to summon you back, mmkay?"

I suppose it's a little better than convincing the beastmaster to sacrifice his donkey, or whatever.

Orphanages are full of people that won't be missed...

[KorvinStarmast]

Unless you use your own familiar. You monster.

In this edition, the celestial spirit goes back to its dimension until you call it again. It can be an eagle or an owl next time...

(Good point on the black roosters)

[LudicSavant]

I was wondering about Hex. It's a great spell for low-level Warlocks, but upcasting it only affects the duration, which won't matter too much in combat. Is burning a 5th level slot for a 1st level effect worth it when you could cast something like Summon Aberration or Hold Monster instead?

The benefit of upcasting Hex as a Warlock is that it lasts longer than the short rest needed to refresh the slot, and thus can essentially become a "free" pre-cast, in which case yes, it can be worth it. Also, the ability to inflict Disadvantage on ability checks with no save is a relevant combo tool.

Summon Aberration, by contrast, you need to cast after your short rest, and thus is not a free pre-cast. It's a good spell that I use on Warlocks, but it's used for a different thing, in a different situation.

Hold Monster is a single target, all-or-nothing save or lose. Oh sure, if it lands on a lone big enemy, they basically lose the fight outright, but a lot of spells are like that without being quite as hit-or-miss. Also, big single targets at high levels often have legendary saves, magic resistance, or the like. I usually prefer solutions that shred them without having to go through their saves first (or, if it does go through their save, does something I want even if they succeed).

[RSP]

The best use of Hex is on a EB+RB/GoH+AB Warlock. It gets you additional damage on your most likely action. Add in Synaptic Static, Fireball, Counterspell, Dispel Magic, Dimension Door, or any other non-Concentration spell.

EB+RB is such a A) fun playstyle, and B) effective way to control a battlefield.

You certainly could do other Concentration spells, but when your gameplay is EB anyway, adding to your damage, while still having full slots, ain’t bad.

[Bardon]

It's a decent pick for the Fey-Touched feat. Doesn't use up a spell slot and can work pretty nicely with non-Warlock builds. The damage isn't game-changing especially at high levels but the ability check hit is pretty nice for a grappler or a few other circumstances.

[KorvinStarmast]

It's a decent pick for the Fey-Touched feat. Doesn't use up a spell slot and can work pretty nicely with non-Warlock builds. The damage isn't game-changing especially at high levels but the ability check hit is pretty nice for a grappler or a few other circumstances.

That is where my Rune Knight got it: Fey Touched. Also, the misty step once per LR is good for certain pursuit and escape situations.

[Chronos]

Quoth Sigreid:

Orphanages are full of people that won't be missed...

Well, unless you roll a 1.

[Theodoxus]

Friday early afternoon, a coworker was leaving, and someone shouted out "we miss you!" and I replied "But our aim is getting better!" - unfortunately, they heard it as "but our anus getting better"... and were VERY confused for a bit.

Don't roll a 1 in social interactions

[Hiro Quester]

And maybe for a multiclassed warlock, so you have the option of using first-level slots on it, and have more spells known to choose from. But not on a straight warlock.

Im playing a multi-classed Swords Bard 6/Warlock 5, so I have first level slots with which to case Hex.

But usually I'm starting off combat with Slow or Hypnotic Pattern to take out or debuff enemies, then moving into melee to start stabbing enemies. If the enemies save against those kinds of spells, and I'm in melee combat, it's usually prudent to keep hitting the bad guys than to try another big concentration spell.

In cases like that, bonus action Hex (with disadvantage on strength checks to help my grappler friend) then keep hitting things is sometimes worth it. Especially since I'm using a 1st level bard slot for it.

It's the fact that I can cast Hex as a bonus action is the only thing that keeps it in rotation. If I have a turn to set up, then using an action to cast Spirit Shroud for an extra d8 is better, or there are much better things I can do with my concentration (I will soon have access to Greater Invisibility, for elven accuracy advantage, for instance).

But Hex being a bonus action and the fact that I can use a 1st level spell slot for it, occasionally still makes it worthwhile.

However, it won't be for long. Because Shadow Blade is also a bonus action concentration spell, and upcasting that does even more damage per hit. And we have a Twilight cleric in our group who is always throwing shade (twilight sanctuary) to make Shadowblade have advantage.

Shadow Blade with a 3rd level spell slot granting advantage and an extra 2d8 damage per hit over a rapier or longsword, is better than using the 3rd level slot for Eldritch Smite, even.

And now I have extra attack from Bard 6, the restriction on thirsting blade only working for your Pact weapon is moot.

So when I take Warlock 6, I'm switching out Hex for Shadow Blade.

[Psyren]

As a free damage boost (i.e. you're a Warlock who's able to rest and get the slot back you spent on it while keeping it active) it's fine. But at high levels, most casters including them will usually have something better to concentrate on.

[Yakk]

A level 11 warlock wakes up. They capture or spot a small creature. They hex it, and then they kill it.

Then they take a short rest.

They are now concentrating on Hex and have all of their spell slots back. This hex concentration lasts 24 hours.

Their at-will damage goes from 31.5 to 42, a 33% boost. This lasts until they need their concentration for something else, or lose concentration.

You can also impose disadvantage on either strength/dex (if the target is likely to be grappled) or spellcasting attribute (if they have counterspell) checks.

If you spot a foe before combat starts, you can impose dex disadvantage to give them disadvantage on their initiative check.

[Theodoxus]

i made a ruling that you can cast Hex just like any other readied spell. You're concentrating on it anyway, so there's no real need to cast it on a critter to then kill. The real breaking from RAW is that I allow the casting onto a creature to still be a BA, instead of a reaction like readying a spell normally would be, and when initially readying the spell, I don't require a trigger - or at best, the trigger is generic like "I wait to cast the spell on the next creature I want to kill."