Order of the Stick: September I

[silvadel]

Yep Elan is stupid enough to pull off being an ogre pretty well...

[Angry_Bill]

"Oh, you're just so cute when you are unjustifiably confident." - Haley

Any DM's ever think this about their players?

Bill

[The Vorpal Tribble]

*rolls along the floor, shedding in mirth*

"Ok, I do as you say, strange ogre I have ever seen before. I go."

My players WISH I'd let that happen ;D

[Viscount_Grey]

Maybe you should, if you have one who can perform that illusion who has a high enough charisma modifier...

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Maybe you should, if you have one who can perform that illusion who has a high enough charisma modifier...

It'd be totally unrealistic, but sure, I could.

-=-=-=-=-

Btw, why does the ogre have a third arm? :o

*points to panel six*

Elan mess up and turn into an athach? ;)

[Devoured_Dude]

Of course, since Bluff is based on Charisma instead of Intelligence, Elan would made the ideal secret agent/master of disguise/con man/etc. Counterintuitive, but them's the rules.

Silvadel has a point too, that Elan's dimness helps him "get into character" when playing an Ogre.

My first post, BTW.

[bingo_bob]

Gah! My view of what the D&D world looks like is turning into little stick figures!

I just KNOW that every time I think of ogres or the 'change self' spell, I'm going to envision it along those lines! Curse you Rich Burlew! Curse you for helping me see what D&D looks like! :P

[Medesha]

I love how the ogres don't use capital letters.

[Kaerou]

Perhaps Elan has a very high bluff modifier. At his level, being around 10th.. and with 18 Charisma, he certainly has the capacity to have a modifier that makes even the unrealistic seem plausible with a good enough roll.

[chronoshift]

The ogre guarding the cave kinda looks like Roy.

[Eloco]

Roy should kick his butt and take his sword!

[Sundog]

Ah, Elan...setting the cause of bard respectability back one year at a time...per panel...

[Omega_Mage_Zero]

Elan is VERY dumb. Dumb as only a character in a humorous comic that makes fun of the dumb can be. But he's also brave and noble. His first instinct when seeing an underwater ogre is to jump in and fight it so Haley can rescue others. That's one reason beyond his good looks she likes him. Even though he's staggeringly Dumb.

EDIT: Also it was funny.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Perhaps Elan has a very high bluff modifier. At his level, being around 10th.. and with 18 Charisma, he certainly has the capacity to have a modifier that makes even the unrealistic seem plausible with a good enough roll.

Yes, well, get your escape artist and balance skills high enough and you can squeeze through keyholes and walk on clouds without magic, but that doesn't make it anything but unplausible ::)

This kinds of dumb D&D skill use is what made the comic so funny, because it obviously ain't just me noticing it ;)

[El Jaspero, the Pirate King]

"On second thought, maybe Roy doesn't need to know about any of this."

Priceless.

[GreyRat]

"Oh, you're just so cute when you are unjustifiably confident." - Haley

Any DM's ever think this about their players?

Bill

What I love is how proud they are about succeeding at pointless tasks, like aceing their sneaking rolls while they creep through a completely enpty house, and fast-talking an ally into doing what they were planning to do anyway. Yeah, guys, you rock. ::)

Aside: Thanks to the Giant for getting the comic up on the holiday, and here's wishing him a smooth transition into (another) new environment. Hang in there!

[Elethiomel]

Yes, well, get your escape artist and balance skills high enough and you can squeeze through keyholes and walk on clouds without magic, but that doesn't make it anything but unplausible ::)

This kinds of dumb D&D skill use is what made the comic so funny, because it obviously ain't just me noticing it ;)

Yes, well, doing implausible things with extremely high skill scores can be handled in several ways;
- The GM says: That's implausible. You can't do it. Suck it up.
- Everyone around the table accepts it as a balancing issue.
- Since the world is magical (and therefore implausible in itself), extremely high skills border upon magic - very clever Escape Artists actually make their bodies partly liquid, allowing them to trickle through keyholes. Not by magic as such but by "mind over matter"; In a world where forty-tonne animals can fly around, and not consume the entire world's population of animals to keep this up, "implausible" gets a whole new meaning.
- Players (and the GM) thinks it's fun that some characters can have the skills of Chiun (from The Destroyer books/comics) or Li Mu Bai (from the well known Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon movie), for instance.

[sniffles]

Ah, how satisfying to return from a long holiday weekend and get two steaming helpings of tasty OotS goodness! :D

(rubbing hands together gleefully) Plus I finally got my copy of "Dungeon-crawlin' Fools". A friend picked one up for me at Gen Con but I couldn't arrange to get it from him until yesterday. Autographed by Rich; my happiness abounds!!

happy happy joy joy
happy happy joy joy
happy happy joy joy joy!

[Techonce]

Elan, such a source of humor and he doesn't even realize it. Great comic.

Since I was gone for the weekend I have a question about Roy and the Ogre/2. Why does he get attacks of oppertunity? Roy was charging (at least he says so) and therefore the ogre/2 doesn't get AoO's. At least that is how our group has always played it. THe handly little table from WotC says No under AoO. It's not a move action, although it does include movement. We allow AoO from other creatures that threaten the charging character, but not from the target creature, otherwise what is the point of having a charge?

[Techonce]

Yes, well, get your escape artist and balance skills high enough and you can squeeze through keyholes and walk on clouds without magic, but that doesn't make it anything but unplausible ::)

Actually you're not fitting through that keyhole unless your head is small enough to fit through it. Now a little assistance from a friend with a heavy mace and you might just do it though...

Fixed quote tag...

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Not by magic as such but by "mind over matter";

Yes, thats called psionics ;)

In a world where forty-tonne animals can fly around, and not consume the entire world's population of animals to keep this up, "implausible" gets a whole new meaning.

Except for the roc, aren't most creatures who do that already magical naturally?

Actually you're not fitting through that keyhole unless your head is small enough to fit through it. Now a little assistance from a friend with a heavy mace and you might just do it though...

According to the Epic Level Handbook, a book that needs burned and its ashes scattered within the negative energy plane (except the monsters which are cool), all it takes is a DC 80 escape artist check to go through a space smaller than your head:
http://srd.pbemnexus.com/epicSkills.html#escape-artist

If you pick the right feats and max out your skill and only raise your dex, you could actually do it around level 28 or so with a nat 20.

[Nihility]

Yes, well, doing implausible things with extremely high skill scores can be handled in several ways;
- The GM says: That's implausible. You can't do it. Suck it up.
- Everyone around the table accepts it as a balancing issue.
- Since the world is magical (and therefore implausible in itself), extremely high skills border upon magic - very clever Escape Artists actually make their bodies partly liquid, allowing them to trickle through keyholes. Not by magic as such but by "mind over matter"; In a world where forty-tonne animals can fly around, and not consume the entire world's population of animals to keep this up, "implausible" gets a whole new meaning.

I tend to try to be more realistic in my games. I'll make the world and people a bit more flashy and use overly elaborate methods of getting an easy task done just to make it all more interesting and make the world seem a bit more fantastical.
However, I don't like to let players do things that seem over the top like the examples you all are giving. If you let them do things like that, they're just gonna try even more outrageous things, and if you don't want to let them do what they're trying to do, you'll run into an inconsistency problem and they'll want to argue that "you let my character do this, why shouldn't he be able to do this?". As for the implausability of magic, yes there's magic in the world. Some can harness these powers, some can't.
If you want to do crazy stuff like walk on clouds or squeeze through a key hole in my campaign, you'd better be playing a magic user.

[Elethiomel]

Yes, thats called psionics ;)

Psionics is mostly mind over external matter.

Except for the roc, aren't most creatures who do that already magical naturally?

"Except for the roc". I rest my case.

[RawBearNYC]

Elan, such a source of humor and he doesn't even realize it. Great comic.

Since I was gone for the weekend I have a question about Roy and the Ogre/2. Why does he get attacks of oppertunity? Roy was charging (at least he says so) and therefore the ogre/2 doesn't get AoO's. At least that is how our group has always played it. THe handly little table from WotC says No under AoO. It's not a move action, although it does include movement. We allow AoO from other creatures that threaten the charging character, but not from the target creature, otherwise what is the point of having a charge?

Ooooh, I just looked at the SRD. CombatI.rtf. There's a table in it that lists actions and whether or not they provoke an attack. It clearly says "No" under Charge. I think I need to go back and replay a whole mess of battles.

[Elethiomel]

I tend to try to be more realistic in my games. I'll make the world and people a bit more flashy and use overly elaborate methods of getting an easy task done just to make it all more interesting and make the world seem a bit more fantastical.
However, I don't like to let players do things that seem over the top like the examples you all are giving. If you let them do things like that, they're just gonna try even more outrageous things, and if you don't want to let them do what they're trying to do, you'll run into an inconsistency problem and they'll want to argue that "you let my character do this, why shouldn't he be able to do this?". As for the implausability of magic, yes there's magic in the world. Some can harness these powers, some can't.
If you want to do crazy stuff like walk on clouds or squeeze through a key hole in my campaign, you'd better be playing a magic user.

So you're going for the option of the GM saying: No, that's implausible. You can't do it. Suck it up. (And try a different way of solving the problem.)

Which is entirely valid, and wasn't meant to be looked at in a negative way in my post.

[Nihility]

So you're going for the option of the GM saying: No, that's implausible. You can't do it. Suck it up. (And try a different way of solving the problem.)

Which is entirely valid, and wasn't meant to be looked at in a negative way in my post.

I know. I was just stating the way I run my games. In my opinion there's nothing wrong with letting your players do crazy,unnatural things. It's all about having fun.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

If you want to do crazy stuff like walk on clouds or squeeze through a key hole in my campaign, you'd better be playing a magic user.

Amen, brutha ;)

Psionics is mostly mind over external matter.

The 65 or so psychometabolic powers, along with most of the clairsentient and a bit of the telepathic, psychoportative and psychokinsesis powers deal purely with the self, affecting none but the manifester.

"Except for the roc". I rest my case.

The roc is special case and 'should' be a magical beast. Humans on the other hand for example are very rarely inherently magical.

[Nikolai_II]

Ooooh, I just looked at the SRD. CombatI.rtf. There's a table in it that lists actions and whether or not they provoke an attack. It clearly says "No" under Charge. I think I need to go back and replay a whole mess of battles.

The charge in itself is not a "distracting act" and does not qualify for a "distract-AoO". If the charge-move makes one leave a threatened square somewhere along the way that still makes one a viable target for a "movement-AoO".

[Elethiomel]

The 65 or so psychometabolic powers, along with most of the clairsentient and a bit of the telepathic, psychoportative and psychokinsesis powers deal purely with the self, affecting none but the manifester.

All right. I still maintain that weirdness through high skill can have its place in a campaign.Not all campaigns, of course - tone, pace, atmosphere, these all matter. I just react badly when someone says something shouldn't be possible because it's "unrealistic" or "implausible". This is a game, it's not about realism or plausability -- it's about fun. Realism and plausability may make a game more fun, but it may make another game less fun.

Much the same way that the comic is about humour, not about realism or strict adherence to the rules.

The roc is special case and 'should' be a magical beast. Humans on the other hand for example are very rarely inherently magical.

Humans, for example, are very rarely epic level.

[RawBearNYC]

The charge in itself is not a "distracting act" and does not qualify for a "distract-AoO". If the charge-move makes one leave a threatened square somewhere along the way that still makes one a viable target for a "movement-AoO".

grrr...I missed footnote 1:
1 Regardless of the action, if you move out of a threatened square, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself, not moving, provokes an attack of opportunity.