Erfworld 91, Page 82

[fendrin]

Because she doesn't particularly want to settle down and rule a kingdom. She said so, and it fits what we know of her personality.

That does not preclude wanting revenge against Stanley for whatever it was he did, though.

That's very true.

[Doctor Zuber]

The more I think about things the more sense it makes to me that this probably is Wanda and Seymore that we are seeing in the background there in FAQ.

First the facts we know. We know that Jillian lost her homeland, and though she didn't like her homeland very much she still hates stanley for taking it. So we basically know Stanley did invade FAQ. Also we now know that FAQ is only accessable from air or tunnel. We know that Wanda and Jillian have a relationship that has probably gone on for a while. One that confuses me however is that we know Seymore was here in GK under the rule of the previous king, Saline IV. So how is it that we see Seymore in FAQ when we know he was under the rule of Saline IV at this time? Also there is the conveniently timed Goblin invasion which ended the reign of Saline IV.

We've seen and kicked around ideas about that looks like Wanda, and that looks like Seymore. I think it is pretty certain that Stanley staged an air invasion, using his advantages from the Arkenhammer. Has anybody considered the possibility that Seymore and or Wanda were there in FAQ as spies?

It is a pretty safe bet that Stanley invaded while Jillian was away. In fact I think Jillian might have even said as much. (need to go back and look for that one. ) This idea would tend to reinforce the idea of Stanley having spies in FAQ before the invasion. (I realize this is a bit complex for Stanley, but Wanda and or Saline IV could have had a hand in this plan.)

That would make sense... Jillian says that Faq had a good Foolamancer, and Ansom knows that Stanley has a Foolamancer. Connection!

This last one Throws me. The foolamancer looks nothing like this guy to the left of Wanda in panel 3. I don't know if I buy this theory. It would however make a certain amount of sense if Stanley had the foolamancer from the beginning and used some advantage of this to make the attack on FAQ easier.

[Krelon]

One thing is certain, though. Stanley MUST be unaware of Jillian's like to Faq, or he never would have let her live. I'd say she was out on a mission when she was disinherited, and she possibly got a thinkagram telling her what happened.

very true, if Stanley knew there is someone in the alliance who knows his hideout he wouldn't let her go.

If Faq were raised, Why didn't Jillian simply move in and rebuild?

I bet rebuilding a city costs a lot of resources. An alliance for sure has enough to do this, Ansom and the royal radishes for sure have enough, Stanley has an Arkentool and a lot of followers and some leftover shmuckers. A solo barbarian with a bunch of peeps? I doubt it. Besides, what would be the point in rebuilding Faq for Jillian once it's been discovered? Stanley would come back soon enough.

Anyway, from what Jillian tells, a warlord (or at least a heir) can continue on as mercenary even after his faction has been destroyed. In this case the Tool has nothing to fear from the fall of GK. But, will that free Sizemore and Parson and all the rest from his rule over GK?

Maybe part one is indeed the story how Parson becomes a major player? He cannot betray the Tool because of his spell bounds but with a turn of events like that he is "sorta" heir to GK, isn't he? It all makes sense.

Funny things is that In the end somehow Parson's plan would have worked: B-dwagons croak Ansom, Vinnie and Jillian, then hit'n'run rest of the siege (with promoted KISS guys as warlords). The alliance pretty much breaks apart, Parson remains slave to Stanley because he didn't fail, kind of ironic...

So, who will be the big bad in part two? Parson the conqueror?

[Doctor Zuber]

In most turn based strategy games like this rebuilding a razed city is actually fairly inexpensive, and is generally preferably to building a new city from scratch.

it's pretty normal in fact for it to just cost one settler/outpost/whatever unit which has a similar cost to really any other unit you can product, or sometimes slightly more.

What kills you is that a new built or rebuilt city starts with essentially no population, and takes MANY turns before it becomes really all that useful other than as a small source of income. And also you need to factor in all those buildings that need to be bought and built, like walls, barracks, temples, etc. These are NOT cheap, and take time.

Of course, this is all from assumptions that Erfworld is in many ways like other turn based strategy games.

[SteveMB]

In most turn based strategy games like this rebuilding a razed city is actually fairly inexpensive, and is generally preferably to building a new city from scratch.

it's pretty normal in fact for it to just cost one settler/outpost/whatever unit which has a similar cost to really any other unit you can product, or sometimes slightly more.

What kills you is that a new built or rebuilt city starts with essentially no population, and takes MANY turns before it becomes really all that useful other than as a small source of income. And also you need to factor in all those buildings that need to be bought and built, like walls, barracks, temples, etc. These are NOT cheap, and take time.

Of course, this is all from assumptions that Erfworld is in many ways like other turn based strategy games.

Hmmm... he took three KISS (specifically saying that's what his plan had room for), Faq has three cities... it fits.

[hajo]

The difficulty is in reconciling that with the fact that Jillian states that Stanley cost her the kingdom.

Banhammer got a new heir (the as-of-yet nameless sword-woman), which relegates Jillian from her former position as princess to that of a lowly warlord.

My theory on the matter is that Banhammer was somehow forced to declare Stanley as his heir.

There is no need for that - when Stanley kills Banhammer, rulership would go to the new heir.
It doesn't matter much if she still lives and rules - even the best footsoldiers wouldn't have a chance against the dwagons when Stanley gets back there next turn...

[fendrin]

Banhammer got a new heir (the as-of-yet nameless sword-woman), which relegates Jillian from her former position as princess to that of a lowly warlord.


There is no need for that - when Stanley kills Banhammer, rulership would go to the new heir.
It doesn't matter much if she still lives and rules - even the best footsoldiers wouldn't have a chance against the dwagons when Stanley gets back there next turn...

I think you need to read the comic again....
Jillian IS the 'sword swinging madwoman'. Banhammer didn't have an heir until he popped Jillian.

[Bongos]

Faq is the perfect place for Stanley to hide, accessible only by air and tunnel, means the majority of Ansom's forces can't get there, or it would take them a long time to get there

And only one person knows where it is.

and he still has the foolamancer so someone would have to be in the same hex to even see him.

and even if he is found after all that he still has the dwagons and the arkentool
bonus and the overlord bonus versus whatever fliers make it there which is probably better odds than what Gobwin Knob is facing.

He can always scout with the foolamancer and dwagons, he can always leave Faq if he finds out Ansom or Jillian are on their way to get him.

[SteveMB]

and he still has the foolamancer so someone would have to be in the same hex to even see him.

I think you have to be in the same hex anyway -- remember, Ansom had no idea what was in the center hex of the donut until he sent a bat to look.

Judging from that incident, it seems that veiling can conceal units even if the enemy is in the same hex, but there's a chance to see through it, at least for a high-level warlord. (Ansom went to see for himself after the bat found an empty hex; Wanda surmised that he expected to find veiled units.)

Another catch is that he apparently doesn't have a useful Foolamancer ("This is a veil?").

[Lamech]

I pretty sure that you don't need to be in the same hex to see stuff in that hex. Klog 8 would seem to imply that there can be vision range of greator than one when the henchman saw Ansom's troops. Page 80 might also imply that; Ansom knew the dwagons were gone.

[Arkenputtyknife]

I pretty sure that you don't need to be in the same hex to see stuff in that hex…

Looks to me as if terrain and elevation are taken into account. It makes sense that units hiding in trees could only be seen from within the hex, while units on open road could be seen from atop a distant tower atop a volcano. Faq doesn't have any concealment beyond the surrounding mountains, so presumably it might be visibly from some or all hexes in the same valley, from atop the neighboring mountains, and surely by units flying over them.

[SteveMB]

The comment that Banhammer decided that he needed an heir because of a prediction that Faq would fall would seem to confirm that Erfworlders live indefinitely unless and until croaked in combat.

[hajo]

Jillian IS the 'sword swinging madwoman'. Banhammer didn't have an heir until he popped Jillian.

You have a point here...
I read "Banhammer... that was my father" as evidence that erfworlders can also have 'natural offspring'.

[SteveMB]

You have a point here...
I read "Banhammer... that was my father" as evidence that erfworlders can also have 'natural offspring'.

It's more likely that "father" in this context simply means that Banhammer had Jillian popped for the specific purpose of becoming his heir.

[slayerx]

y'know, i really do wonder what kind of friction may await between Ansom and Jillian... From what w know of Ansom, nobility and status is very important to him and right now his very geared towards Jillian regaining her kingdom and status. Jillian on the otherhand clearly prefers her mercenary lifestyle and as such as no plans of rebuilding her kingdom and becoming a royal again; as long as their are battles to fight and poeple willing to hire her, she can keep going... I do wonder how Ansom will react when he finally realizes that Jillian is NOT gonna return to her former status and will remain as nothing more than a barbarian. Methinks, he's not gonna be too happy, and it could lead to a break up

One thing i kind of wonder is what happen to the rest of Jillians units, we have only seen Gwiffens... i can think of two possibilities... all the non-gwiffen units have been croaked, or Jillian, having no city, was unable to maintain upkeep of all her forces and chose to keep the gwiffens and loose anything else; either Gwiffens have 0 upkeep or Jillian just plain didn't like the other units... the leader probably generates smuckers of their own and thus can keep some units without a city...

[SteveMB]

One thing i kind of wonder is what happen to the rest of Jillians units, we have only seen Gwiffens... i can think of two possibilities... all the non-gwiffen units have been croaked, or Jillian, having no city, was unable to maintain upkeep of all her forces and chose to keep the gwiffens and loose anything else; either Gwiffens have 0 upkeep or Jillian just plain didn't like the other units... the leader probably generates smuckers of their own and thus can keep some units without a city...

We don't know if there were any other units on that mission besides Jillian and her gwiffons. If there were, perhaps they chose to give permanent allegiance to other lords (especially when it became clear that Jillian wasn't going to try to rebuild Faq) rather than continue as mercenaries.

[slayerx]

We don't know if there were any other units on that mission besides Jillian and her gwiffons. If there were, perhaps they chose to give permanent allegiance to other lords (especially when it became clear that Jillian wasn't going to try to rebuild Faq) rather than continue as mercenaries.

Well we see a number of other soldiers all riding gwiffens along with Jillian; even if they weren't with Jillian there's a high chance that they we out in the field when the city was attacked... and since Jillian was the heir, those units would still be part of Faq forces and not disband... though that would bring up the question; can a unit that is under a leader switch sides without being captured by that side? not to sure about all that

Frankly, i think it's possible Jillian didn't like the human units, though they were soldiers they may have been more like her father and not all that battle hardened from the merc work... as such she would gladly drop them and keep the gwiffens if she had to make the choice

And i realized that i'm posting in the wrong thread... i should be doing this in the new thread =/