Arena Tournament, Round 32: Chile II vs Cyn

[chilepepper]

Stuff I do between now and then

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R11 move to H9, dismount into G8
R12 move action to draw one of the spears to one hand, still have the scroll in the other

Round 14 (just after your rage ends)

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Standard action read scroll
DC4 caster level check (1d20+1)[6]
Ranged Touch (1d20+6)[18] (+2 for invisible) vs AC10 with his post-rage dex penalty and cover
Fire Damage (big money, big money, no whammies (4d6)[16]

stats

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HP 4/5
AC 23 +cover if applicable
Spells 1,3
Effects-
Mage armor, me : 14/360
Invis, me : 13/30 if spell casting was successful
Invis, hoofy : 12/30
Shield : 7/10

Cyn:
Resist energy, Cyn : 14/180
Invis, Cyn : he attacked
Post rage penalties
Cyn is in J12

Checking results of rolls, stay tuned for an update

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edit:
A ray of fire emanates from G8 and strikes you (I believe your touch AC is 6, I hit AC 18) for 16 damage. I believe that drops you, but if I'm mistaken, I appear in G8 immediately following the attack. I have a spear in one hand and a scroll in the other, if it matters.

edit2:
I'm not done with my turn, just waiting to see if you get to take your readied action or are dead

edit3:
By my count, that's 1 damage from your alchemist's fire, 4 from the badger, and this 16. Puts you at -3?

[Maurkov]

Ref Maurkov

@chile

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So, did you just recite a scroll while invisible?

[chilepepper]

refs

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Oh yeah, that wouldn't work would it. Can I drop the scroll and read it from the ground?

[stupnick]

Readying an Action
You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.

You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.

technically you read the scroll with the intention to attack me with it.. so once you read it. you become visible, and my ready action triggers, before your spell does.

my readied action is to attack you with the javelin, so my attack roll

(1d20+6)[11]
(1d6+4)[5]

so i believe if i hit you, you are dead before you kill me : )

[Maurkov]

Ref Maurkov

@Chile, refs

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Sure, you can drop an item to make it visible, but your oppenent is likely to notice.

Speaking of, back at post 45 you picked up a spear and incorrectly stated that it became invisible.

I don't think you used it, so the best retcon is to assume you picked it up and then dropped it again. Agree?

@Cyn

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He doesn't become visible until after his attack has resolved (which is why he gets the +2, no dex-- attacking while invisible). There is a problem with his action, however, so stay tuned.

Edit:

@Chile

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Arrgh. Reviewing, you read a scroll of See Invisible back at post 6, right? That might be something to include in your stat block.

What was the problem with post 8? A potion is a weapon-like object, and therefore eligible to be drawn during a move action.

[chilepepper]

Okay, before we continue, ref Maurkov has pointed out a few mistakes I made, I'm going to just throw them out in the open so you can decide if you have a problem with anything.

First of all, he says potions are weapon-like and can be drawn like weapons. I still disagree with that, a potion of invisibility isn't a weapon. Also the rule about drawing as a free action during a move says weapons, not weapon-like. Anyway, that changed one move action of yours, but both I and my horse went invisible before you could have attacked and I had move action to guarantee that, so I don't think that makes much of a difference either way.

Secondly, it was pointed out that you can't read a scroll while invisible, but it is possible to drop it and read it from the ground. I'd like to retcon my moves to reflect that. I double checked and you didn't have a readied action during any of those. I could understand the argument that you wouldn't have wasted the splash weapons if you knew my position. At the time of my actions, if I had to drop the scroll to cast, I would move after that to avoid being hit by anything. So it won't change any damage I did or didn't take, but if you want your splash weapons back based on the possibility that you would have thrown a javilin, I won't argue.

Third, when I picked up your spear and said it disappeared, that wasn't technically correct. In order for the spear to disappear, I'd have to tuck it into clothing or whatever. I didn't state I did that at the time. I assumed saying it disappears implied I tucked it into something to get it to poof. Ref Maurkov suggests that we retcon to say I dropped it after picking it up. Either is fine with me. I'm guessing, since you abandoned the spear in favor of the javilins, dropping it in it's square wouldn't have mattered. Either way is fine with me, I have spear of my own, so my current situation wouldn't change.

Fourth, if we're okay upto this turn, you'll see a scroll drop to the ground before the ray hits you. If that triggers your attack before the ray fires off, it doesn't matter because you miss me anyway.

Let me know what you think.

[Maurkov]

Ref Maurkov

Re: point 1, the difference between a vial of alchemist's fire and a vial of healing potion would be? Technically, while an initiate ref (me) can't make up rules, like what is or isn't a weapon-like object, I can point out it takes rather obtuse parsing to interpret the "draw a weapon" of the second paragraph to mean the specific act of drawing a weapon rather than the move equivalent action in which it appears:

Draw or Sheathe a Weapon

Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.

If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move.

Re: Point 2 (and 4). If you can see invisible, you can read scrolls while invisible, but I wish you included that in your stat block (as well as including your stat block with more posts).

Re: point 3, I don't believe you can tuck a two-handed weapon away into the folds of your clothing, but again, it's beyond my rank. I would point out that the Slight of Hand feat only works to conceal light weapons.

[stupnick]

well don't forget it's not just a two handed weapon, it's a two handed weapon 1 size catagory larger than he is.. it is a medium 2 handed weapon, and he is small sized..

not that it seems to matter, but i would have been able to target you easier if you would have been a little more clearer on things.

but i guess at the moment i don't have to much choice, as the match is pretty much over, and those "abuse" issues as you put it, wouldn't change much....

[Mavian]

High Ref Mav:

Actually, you have a couple of options Stupnik, you can request a rewind to the point that the infraction was made, you can just continue the match as is, or you can ask for a rematch due to having received bad information that completely changed the potential outcome of the match.

[stupnick]

well i am already 2nd level at this point. and i don't think it's worth another week or two, just to get 600g.... so let's just say it's over, and maybe for next time things will be realized.

[chilepepper]

I do apologize for the mistakes. At least I'll know the correct things to do when we meet in the level 2 FFA. Good match.

[Talic]

High Ref Talic

Chile II is declared the victor, and receives his prizes.

On a side note, Stupnick gets the good sportsmanship award. :)

[chilepepper]

@maurkov
Sorry about not throwing in my stat block more often. Likewise, sorry about not including the see invisibility, stupnick was already visible and I didn't think about the scroll thing, so I didn't think it mattered. I also didn't worry about the stat block because I wasn't actively in battle. I made sure to include it when I attacked, but I should have posted it all along in the first place.

The difference between alchemist's fire and a potion is that alchemist's fire is in a vessel that is designed to break on impact and designed to be thrown. A potion of invisibility would have neither of those characteristics, IMHO. However, I can see your point of view. It certainly deserves a ruling, I'll inquire in the waiting room for future reference. As for the weapon versus weapon-like, I misread the rule. I also assume the free action part applies to weapon-like drawing.

As for the tucking into clothing. It doesn't specifically say you have to cover the item completely with your clothing, though I agree that is probably the intent. One thing I didn't consider is that his spear is larger than my spear. It's certainly arguable that his spear, being larger than a two handed weapon for me, is untuckable regardless.

@Talic, Stupnick
I absolutely agree with Talic. Kudos to you Stupnick for being understanding of my unintentional mistakes. Chile II officially buys a mug of ale for each of us. "Here's to you good sir!"

[Maurkov]

@chilepepper, np. I try to run matches such that when the both sides eventually break open the spoilers to see what really happened, they can both say, "yeah, I deserved that." I realize that sometimes comes across as fixated on minutiae.

Thanks to both of you for being good sports.

[stupnick]

congratz Chile, i looke forward to future fights at level 2, as well as future alt fights at levle 1