103 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 93

[ralphmerridew]

O.k. I think this falls under the TFHA-Level of ideas so here goes.

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Parson learns after-the-fact about the allegiance-switching double-move gambit.

Like me he finds this idea to be a crazily exploitable mechanic. If somehow he has the power to change his allegiance at will, he could theoretically never run out of turns. He'll take a turn at his normal time, give allegiance to another faction, get another turn, then again and again and again.

If Ansom can exploit this loophole I'm sure that Parson could find a way to do it as well.

Totally not feasible since GK has no allies, but you never know.

It's not crazily exploitable.

1: A side only gets one turn per day; this affects when on the day he gets that turn.
2: He can only gain one turn against an opponent. To gain a second turn, he'd need to first give up a turn.

[LoresLost]

"When the city fell. Shouldn't you have disbanded?"

This question implies that King Saline IV's units should have disbanded when the city fell and Saline was croaked. Sizemore's reply indicates that the reason this didn't happen is that Stanley was Saline's Heir (and thus the side was not left without a ruler when Saline croaked).

We know that Jillian was Banhammer's heir, so she (and other Faq units such as Wanda) were not disbanded when Banhammer (presumably) was croaked in the dwagon attack.

Note IF Stanley is croaked out side the city, his side may not disband but be leaderless (The rules given are not complete when a leader is croaked out side his capital).

ALSO the gobwin forces are not Stanley's 'Side' but an attached Alliance, And so may be the Twolls.

Now if Stanley is Croaked AND his side is disbanded ONLY Plaid tribe members may be affected (Bye Sizemore and Maggie it was nice ta meet ya) BUT it may leave Wanda, Parson, Gobwins, Twolls, and the Uncroaked.

These are two thoughts on how to Kill Stanley and not disband Parson by the rules we have seen so far and still have a large fighting force.

[zillion ninjas]

What does plaid have to do with gobwins? Nothing, yet gobwins are a city-less ally of the Plaid tribe. Don King may have made the unipegataurs an offer they could not refuse, and now they serve Transylvito.

Yes, the gobwins are allies of the Plaid tribe, not members. Similarly, there's no reason that the unipegataurs and orlies can't ally with Transylvito, but that wouldn't make them members either.

Ok, TFHA-level idea...

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Jillian is still under Wanda's influence, and has joined the coalition as a double agent. First she gained Ansom's trust, then she hatched this mad-cap plan to split the coalition, thereby saving her love, Wanda. She completely made up the Faq story so she could claim to be from somewhere else. The truth is that she that 'Banhammer' was really Saline IV, who had Jillian's memory wiped/altered to protect her when he was forced to make Stanley his heir. Oh, and Sizemore's memory was altered too.

You're absolutely right - that idea is entirely worthy of the TFHA.

I agree, I do think that what everyone is calling unipegataurs are actually earth angels

We have it by the Word of Titan that they are unipegataurs. I'd link to Jami's post, but the forum search function is failing. [citation needed]

[DougTheHead]

Wow. Ansom divided his forces between Stanley and Parson, and will probably have to divide them against Parson should he use a feint at the walls. Not to mention he seems to be the only person left with any sort of leadership bonus, or potential for strategic thinking.

I've got chillllls, they're multiplyin'
Ansom's looooosssing control-hol.

...Sorry if someone's already made that joke.

[ralphmerridew]

Sending Vinnie & his bats out probably doesn't hurt Ansom too much; there's no need for their recon abilities in the seige, but they would be extremely valuable in searching for Stanley.

Also, Transylvito, Charlescomm, and Barbarian are the three smallest forces in the alliance. Combined they have fewer than half the units of the next largest force. While he's sending away some powerful units, it's not going to lighten Parson's task by that much.

[Azukar]

I'm still sticking to my own Tin Hat theory that Wanda's spell actually did work.

She's been acting out of character since the spell was cast, and will soon have the perfect opportunity to screw up the alliance.

She's the leader of this hunting party, so presumable she has to do the breaking and re-aligning. Imagine Ansom's surprise when she fails to ally the team with Transylvito...

Edit: Yeah, someone else already thought it. But I've been thinking it since it first happened, so nyer.

[Cpt. Sqweky]

Here's a totally random therory that has no basis in what has been discussed, or even any facts. Mostly, I just think it would be cool.

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Ansom fights Parson, 1 on 1. Bogroll dies heroically protecting Parson. Parson, outraged at the death of his henchman, gets lucky and overpowers Ansom, croaking him and taking the arkenpliers for himself. He then becomes attuned to them and wreaks havoc on Jetstone and the remaining allies.

[Zeku]

Azukar, that's brilliant. I can't say what I'm really thinking here, because that would tick some people off royally, but I think what you're saying is a clear possibility.

This could mean that Wanda intended to overthrow Stanley from the beginning? Nice. But just having it inadvertantly work would also be cool.

[Mr. Wonderful]

I'm still sticking to my own Tin Hat theory that Wanda's spell actually did work.

She's been acting out of character since the spell was cast, and will soon have the perfect opportunity to screw up the alliance.

I like your thinking, but how do you explain Wanda's incapacitation? Maggie identified the problem as a result of the spell's backlash / failure.

[RedScholarGypsy]

Why do all auto-assume Stanley's on his way to faq?

I understand it makes sense and all, and it's the smart move, but it may not be stanley's only hiding place. we only know about faq because jillian was away from the capital the turn it fell. He could have done the same to another small secluded capital, one which had no survivors. Plus, he should know from wanda previously that jillian was from Faq.

Best solution is that Ansom split his forces on a false-assumption, and Parson will win the battle and stanley will survive because he went somewhere else.

[Ben]

O.k. I think this falls under the TFHA-Level of ideas so here goes.

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Parson learns after-the-fact about the allegiance-switching double-move gambit.

Like me he finds this idea to be a crazily exploitable mechanic. If somehow he has the power to change his allegiance at will, he could theoretically never run out of turns. He'll take a turn at his normal time, give allegiance to another faction, get another turn, then again and again and again.

If Ansom can exploit this loophole I'm sure that Parson could find a way to do it as well.

Totally not feasible since GK has no allies, but you never know.

When you think about it, it's only exploitable if you go *after* your enemy, since (by my interpretation of the mechanics) when a new side joins in / is formed, they start at dawn, pushing everyone else back, to avoid horrible mechanic abuse. Ansom's side, going late in the day, can do this once, but then Parson could theoretically split off a side to go before Transylvito, though this would have basically no effect with respect to Jetstone, since they still go before Ansom.

[Ben]

Yes, the gobwins are allies of the Plaid tribe, not members. Similarly, there's no reason that the unipegataurs and orlies can't ally with Transylvito, but that wouldn't make them members either.

The gobwins are natural allies of the Plaid tribe. The only natural allies of Jetstone are the Marbits, Elves, and Barbarian, none of which likely employ the Unipegataurs. Maybe elves, I guess, but I'm thinking Sofa King et al. I agree they're not part of Transylvito, since we know there are a fair number of them, and Vinnie still has bats.
I still think that Jetstone can't break alliance with itself, so they can't be actual Jetstone units either. As for their not having fliers... well, they don't have much in the way of magic users either.

Oh, and as far as Ansom's not having any leadership left... there's always Tarfu, Webinar, and his "girlfriend". And probably several others we haven't met yet because they weren't important to the story.

[Ya Ta Hey!]

...I'm thinking those are gargoyles, yo.

[Erk]

...I'm thinking those are gargoyles, yo.

What are, the already-met-and-described unipegataurs?

[slayerx]

Plus, he should know from wanda previously that jillian was from Faq.

That's assuming Wanda actually told Stanely about who Jillian is. Wanda may very well have never told Stanely that Jillian was the heir to Faq. Hell, if Stanely knew Jillian was faq's heir than he probably would have croaked her so that she couldn't rebuild faq. Wanda very likely kept Jillian's heritage a secret. Stanely likely just thinks that Wanda really likes torturing Jillian, but does not realize the full extent of their relationship and past.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Oh, and as far as Ansom's not having any leadership left... there's always Tarfu, Webinar, and his "girlfriend". And probably several others we haven't met yet because they weren't important to the story.

Those aren't "leaders" so much as Yes Men. Vinnie was Ansom's Lancer and helped to point out when he was overreaching and to help keep his arrogance in check. Jillian is mostly just badass, and possibly the superior tactician (though not strategist). Everyone else in the alliance is just far too worshipful of Ansom to keep him aware of his flaws - and when you're facing someone like Parson, you need to stay on your toes.

No, even though Parson had nothing to do with it, separating Ansom from Jillian and Vinnie is going to make the Battle for Gobwin Knob much harder for Ansom.

[Arkenputtyknife]

Bah. I suppose next you're going to tell us there's no Santa Claus?

Of course there is. I saw him in an anime, so he must exist.

Where is the borderline between TFHA theories and epileptic trees, and which side is which?

Why do all auto-assume Stanley's on his way to faq?

Because it was suggested by Jillian, the theory makes good sense, and so far, there have been no better suggestions for what he might be up to.

...I'm thinking those are gargoyles, yo.

I thought that at first glance, but even if they hadn't been identified elsewhere, gargoyles are usually shown to have membranous wings and those critters have feathered wings.

[Moechi_Vill]

Wow, now that was another twist, switch sides at middle of turn to gain another turn. slick I like it.

They're not gaining a turn, they're just moving up the turn order. It may be they gain a turn relative to Stanley, but that is all.

[Stallogarro]

Why are so many people convinced if stanley dies parson will disband? We know from the FAQ incident that units whose side is destroyed become barbarians, like Jillian.

Jillian was the King's daughter, making her the heir. As a leader without a Capital she became a barbarian. If Gobwin Knob falls Stanley would be a barbarian leader until he could rebuild Faq. If Stanley gets croaked, GK automatically falls and all Stanley units are disbanded.

Maybe. That's how I interpret it.

I could be way off, naturally. There's bound to be other loopholes yet to be discovered. The plot demands it.

[Frictional]

I like your thinking, but how do you explain Wanda's incapacitation? Maggie identified the problem as a result of the spell's backlash / failure.

My main theory (something I've been cultivating a while) is there was no spell. Wanda could have merely told everyone that is what it was, and what could they do but believe her? And Maggie just sees the results and makes a best guess.
The reason then that Wanda broke down was just an emotional thing; she doesn't know that Jillian is off backstabbing Ansom, she just saw her love betray her. So she goes into a deep depression. Jillian, meanwhile, has no way of knowing Wanda is in that state, and couldn't do anything about it anyway if she did.
Incidentally, I never once thought there actually was a spell cast my entire time reading the archive... until I came to the forums.

Oh, also? The Unipegataurs could be barbarians. Not all barbarians are under Jillian after all. On Parson's stupid meal they could've all been conglomerated into one 'Barbarian' category, but seperate in reality.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Where is the borderline between TFHA theories and epileptic trees, and which side is which?

I'm glad you asked!

As Number Two of the TFHA, it is my duty to set the record straight.

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As defined by The One True Wiki, Epileptic Trees are the general domain within which TFHA Theories are found. However, not all Epileptic Trees are TFHA worthy - we only accept the choicest selection of the vast forest of such theories.

To qualify, your particular theory should be:

1. Convoluted, but massively sourced with links
2. Definately "out there" but still reasonable/awesome enough that someone might buy it
3. Prone to being disproved by a simple fact, possibly already within the comic.

The prime example is the "Therkla is One-Eye's long lost daughter" theory. To prove it, massive amounts of Tropic and Start of Darkness references were used to show how it could be true and why it would be completely awesome if it was. It turns out, of course, that this theory is completely bunk, since Therkla does not now, nor has ever, looked anything like a goblin - and in fact, looked very much like a half-orc.

From Erfworld, I submit my "Charlie is a Woman" Theory. Since "Charlie" is already an ambiguous name (Charles or Charlotte, for example) it was possible that "Charlie" was a woman. Furthermore, by setting up an excellent source of UST for Parson, she could add a bit of extra spice to the further plotlines. Unfortunately, "Charlie" commands "Charlescomm" which makes it seem likely that "Charlie" is actually a man... or maybe a dragon-man.

Some things are not THFA worthy, of course. My so-called THFA Theory of "Parson is Charlie" theory is clearly a Xanatos Roulette which, while perhaps awesome, just has no real support for such an inference. Additionally, it requires Time Travel, which is a really cheap way to hang a Epileptic Tree together. A proper THFA theory needs to have that spark of Insane Genius which is going to get you added to The Island.

That said... I really need someone to make numbered tin-foil hats so that THFA members can appropriately identify themselves.

[djharr]

A totally out there TFHA deal. I am reasonably sure this is impossible, but I couldn't resist throwing it out.

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1. Charlescomm is committing extra forces to the new side.
2. Since the alliance with Jetstone is broken, this implies there is a new contract with Charlescomm.
3. Since this is a new contract, the old priorities and goals are defunct.
   
4. This contract is SPECIFICALLY to get Stanley personally, and has basically nothing to do with the fight around GK.
   
5. Charlie has just been introduced to a brand new asset that seems to have some great mathamancy capabilities.
6. Maybe he would like to use this new asset as part of his new forces...

Of course, there are some objections to this. If Parson were to participate in this action, wouldn't it go against his compulsion to support Stanley? Would he wind up being disbanded once Stanley saw him?

Almost certainly, this is a completely whacked idea, but it just seemed hilarious to me, so I had to write it up.

A couple of non-spoiler points. Since Don King is (presumably) the leader of Transylvito and Jillian has been (apparently) appointed "quasi-warlord" of the new side ("address all further inquiries to Commander Zamussels"), I am not sure that Vinnie has any kind of a leadership position other than being the highest ranking actual Transylvitoite (is that what they are called?) in the new side. However, Jillians position may rank him. Not sure.

When Jillian says, "You're the one that I want", I am thinking "You're the one that I want!, which would fit nicely with the whole dance fighting theme.

David

[Loyal2NES]

I just noticed that the Archons are dressed like schoolgirls...

[Gygaxphobia]

"Hey. You're the one that I want."

I love the continuing Greece quotes!
70's pop culture references rule.

[Ben]

Those aren't "leaders" so much as Yes Men. Vinnie was Ansom's Lancer and helped to point out when he was overreaching and to help keep his arrogance in check. Jillian is mostly just badass, and possibly the superior tactician (though not strategist). Everyone else in the alliance is just far too worshipful of Ansom to keep him aware of his flaws - and when you're facing someone like Parson, you need to stay on your toes.

No, even though Parson had nothing to do with it, separating Ansom from Jillian and Vinnie is going to make the Battle for Gobwin Knob much harder for Ansom.

Ah, I feel like we're splitting hairs here. I agree with you; he's sending most of the personalities who could stand on their own away. One could make a case for Webinar, but probably not in opposition to Ansom.
I was just saying that there are plenty of warlord units who can command stacks, give leadership and other less tangible bonuses, etc.

And in response to another post, you're right; other barbarian units could probably be barbarians too... we have only seen 3 or so of the Unipegataurs at once. But I have a gut feeling there are a few more of them (partly because the air units need to be a match for dwagons, there are (probably) no gwiffons outside of the barbarian forces, and Orlies and (increasingly decreasing numbers of) Doombats don't seem to be useful in combat, leadership bonuses or no.
Looking back through the archives, I'm thinking Unaroyal may be the faction. It'd be a stronger case if it said Uniroyal, though.

[Ben]

"Hey. You're the one that I want."

I love the continuing Greece quotes!
70's pop culture references rule.

I can do Greece quotes.

"This... is... SPARTAAAAA!"

[galdon]

I'm not liking this faction separation idea. all the units are taking a move right now, if you can finish your turn with changing factions, then a new faction takes it's turn next, then what is to stop you from just constantly changing leaders in order to have a never ending turn? sounds like a plot device that does not work at all if applied to a game and would be HIGHLY abusable.

[SteveMB]

I'm not liking this faction separation idea. all the units are taking a move right now, if you can finish your turn with changing factions, then a new faction takes it's turn next, then what is to stop you from just constantly changing leaders in order to have a never ending turn?

I'm assuming that you can't get two turns in the same day-night cycle (which would be highly abusable), and that what you can do is shift when your next turn comes. That lets you get two of your turns in between turns of another side -- but it only works once unless you reverse the process, which lets the other side get two turns in between two of your turns.

[Twisted Otaku]

I thought that at first glance, but even if they hadn't been identified elsewhere, gargoyles are usually shown to have membranous wings and those critters have feathered wings.

I'm telling you guys : p earth angels, like the prom song that they always play. Fit the mood for me when I saw vinnie and Jillian dressed that way.

[Justyn]

We have it by the Word of Titan that they are unipegataurs. I'd link to Jami's post, but the forum search function is failing. [citation needed]

I'm telling you guys : p earth angels, like the prom song that they always play. Fit the mood for me when I saw vinnie and Jillian dressed that way.

Jami says they are: Unipegataurs.