A Role Reversed?

[Talic]

As soon as Sam begins moving, the mage disappears, in a puff of Contingent spell.

Sam, edit actions if you like, otherwise, Eldariel's up.

[Adumbration]

OOC stuff:

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Let's see, it's 3v1 (not fair) in closed quarters (since else Mage could just teleport/kill people without any fear of retaliation), not using day-lasting buffs (gimped much?) with the Warriors buffed by some invisible party mages (making it more-than-3v1), and banning the most powerful spells (some more gimped?). Oh yeah, and all the Warriors are optimized and specifically built to beat up on Mages. I think the results are somewhat logical :P

Fair enough, although that would beg the question of the point of this exercise, apart from being fun, if Talic doesn't have at least a slim chance of winning. So far the reason for the victory has not been due to being outnumbered, rather the clever use of a single character.

[Eldariel]

And the bastard isn't visible anywhere, even if I have something along the lines of True Seeing?

[Talic]

OOC:

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OOC stuff:

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Fair enough, although that would beg the question of the point of this exercise, apart from being fun, if Talic doesn't have at least a slim chance of winning. So far the reason for the victory has not been due to being outnumbered, rather the clever use of a single character.

Simple. I took the challenge on myself, because I can. I failed the first time because I chose the wrong scrolls, and was too cocky.

I failed the second time because I tried the same trick twice, and justly paid for it.

New trick.

Not visible anywhere. Not to true seeing, not detecting ethereal, not detecting invisibility, not even blindsight, 200 foot range. No conventional or magical detection that has currently been levied against the mage will detect him as he currently is.

[Talic]

In other words, Ghostform made me able to safely travel through walls.
Contingent teleport put me somewhere in one. 5 feet in a wall, in any one square in the room. 2,400 possible squares. It's like Whack-a-mole, if the game were played in hell.

[Eldariel]

Well, whatcha gonna do, I guess. You're in some of the walls here and it doesn't feel like breaking them all would be of too much help. Not to mention, I don't even know if we could break these walls. I'll just move to J9 to about 25' altitude, take Int to AC and end my turn.

Damnit, I shoulda spent resources on learning One With Shadow.

[SamTheCleric]

Not changing my move.

[rockdeworld]

And Eldariel has been the one to kill him, with massive bow damage, both times (although Solo's True Seeing was the win condition the first time).

On the plus side, Eldariel has pretty much guaranteed either full victory or none, no partial victory

[Talic]

Mage Turn:

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Swift: Cast Arcane Spellsurge (I'm dragonblooded)
Standard: Using my Rod of Greater Maximize, cast a Maximized Time Stop.(Metamagic makes it full round, Spellsurge shortens it back down to standard) - 5 rounds

Round 1:
Free: 5 foot step, rise out of floor at J4.
Move: Draw Scroll 2.
Standard: Cast Make Manifest, Mass, Centered at the J9/K10 intersection, 25 feet up.
Swift: Cast Maw of Chaoscentered at the J9/K10 intersection, 25 feet up.
Round 1 done.

Round 2.
Swift: Cast Forcecage, windowless cell variant, Covering J9/K10, elevation 25 and 30 feet up.
Standard: Cast Make Manifest, Mass, Centered at C12/D13, ground level.
Round 2 Done.

Round 3.
Standard: Cast Make Manifest, Mass, Centered at 18N/19O, ground level.
Swift: Cast Maw of Chaos, Centered at C12/D13, ground level.
Move: Put up scroll.
Round 3 Done.

Round 4:
Move: Draw scroll 4.
Swift: Cast Maw of Chaos, Centered at 18N/19O, ground level.
Standard: Cast Wall of stone from scroll, creating a stone hemisphere covering 17M-19O, elevation 0-10. This should trap in Turcano.
Round 4 Done.

Round 5:
Standard: Cast Wall of stone from scroll, creating a stone hemisphere covering B11-D13, elevation 0-10.
Move: Put up scroll.
Swift: Cast Ironguard.
Free: 5 foot step down, into floor.

Resources used this turn: 4-9th level spells (time stop + 3 Maw of chaos)
3-7th level spells (Ironguard, Forcecage, Arcane Spellsurge)
3-Make Manifest, mass (from scroll)
2-Wall of stone (from scroll)

Description of my very, very long turn.

1) Everyone feels any blink effects abruptly end. Any effect or ability that sends you to a coterminous plane is lost. If you were currently on a coterminous plane, you are brought back to this one. There is no save to this effect.

2) Everyone feels some intense pain washing over you from a continuous effect.
Eldariel: (20d6)[79] damage
Sam: (20d6)[79] damage
Turcano: (20d6)[77] damage

There is no save to reduce this damage. However, if you have the Chaotic Subtype, you take no damage.

3) If you take damage from the above effect, you get a Will save (partial). DC 29. If you pass, you're fine. If you fail, you're dazed for 1 round.

4) Eldariel, you can clearly see the battlefield, and you see, where your allies used to be, there are now stone hemispheres. They cover from 17M-19O reaching from ground level to 10 feet up, completely encapsulating Turcano, and from B11-D13, from ground level to 10 feet up, completely encapsulating Sam.

No sign of the wizard.

[SamTheCleric]

Huh. Well then.

Will Save: (1d20+22)[33] with Mettle!

Oh.. and when you say any ability to go to coterminous planes is lost... you mean... what? Can I no longer ghost step (ethereal) ?

[Eldariel]

No sign of you...huh? Well, first things first, I'll use Stance of Alacrity to initiate Moment of Perfect Mind for the save.

(1d20+28)[38]

[Talic]

Huh. Well then.

Will Save: [roll0] with Mettle!

Oh.. and when you say any ability to go to coterminous planes is lost... you mean... what? Can I no longer ghost step (ethereal) ?

According to the spell description, if you were ethereal, astral, or shadow plane, you're in this plane now. You retain all abilities except for abilities which allow you to enter another plane. Thus, if you were ethereal, you're here (no more blink), and if you're here, you cannot leave this plane.

[SamTheCleric]

According to the spell description, if you were ethereal, astral, or shadow plane, you're in this plane now. You retain all abilities except for abilities which allow you to enter another plane. Thus, if you were ethereal, you're here (no more blink), and if you're here, you cannot leave this plane.

Roger. Thank you. Time to go crazy on a stone wall, it seems.

[Talic]

Further, the spell description of the effect that damaged you is that you take 1d6 damage per caster level. If you take damage, you must then make a will save.

Mettle cannot negate damage that happened prior to the save being made.

However, it will negate all future instances of damage, as well as the concentration check portion of the spell. (spell lasts for 20 rounds)

Spell to reference is Spell Compendium: Maw of Chaos.

Mage turn is over. Turcano is up.

[SamTheCleric]

Damage has been noted. Thanks for the reference. That's quite the nasty spell.

May I ask a few questions? First... Since the Wall of Stone is cast off of a scroll, it would have caster level 9. That makes it 2 inches thick (1 inch thick per 4 caster levels), giving each 5' square 30 hit points, correct?

Second..

It is possible, but difficult, to trap mobile opponents within or under a wall of stone, provided the wall is shaped so it can hold the creatures. Creatures can avoid entrapment with successful Reflex saves.

That's from the Wall of Stone text. Now I know we were in a time stop.... but would we get the saving throw? It seems illogical, but I don't see why we wouldnt by RAW.

[Talic]

At the time the save was called for, you were completely immobile, unable to interact with any of the spells or effects being cast. I can't see any reason why characters frozen in place, unable to move, even by accident, would be granted reflex saves.

I'll put it up to consensus vote however.

[Solo]

At the time the save was called for, you were completely immobile, unable to interact with any of the spells or effects being cast. I can't see any reason why characters frozen in place, unable to move, even by accident, would be granted reflex saves.

I'll put it up to consensus vote however.

A rogue in a 10x10 room still gets his reflex save aganist a fireball.... somehow.

[SamTheCleric]

This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds.

I would say, based on that... we would get our reflex saves.

[Talic]

I would say, based on that... we would get our reflex saves.

They are. Everything the caster does, however, is happening much, much faster. So fast, you can't even see me come through the floor spend half a minute up there, and disappear. I that time, I could drop up to 5 of those, without you having a chance to blink or even register sight. They all appear, as they are moving and appearin at my speed. So fast that you cannot even see or react to it. Reasoning that my spells aren't slowing down? My instant duration spells can't affect you. If I cast a lightning bolt, it hits you when you can't be hurt, and it's done.

Wall of stone is also an instant duration spell. Thus, it drops when you can't be hurt, because you're frozen, and by the time you can, it's long since been fully in place.

In other words, if my instant duration spells cannot interact with you, it also makes sense that you can't interact with them. If you can't interact with those spells, then things such as saving throws, while impossible, are typically rendered moot, by virtue of being invulnerable to being directly affected. This, however, does not directly affect you. And it leaves a lasting nonmagical emplacement

By the RAW, you should have a save.

By the common sense, you should not.

Is this running strict RAW, or is this running RAW, with common sense thrown in? That's what's up to the group decision, as it was not laid out before the matches began.

[Talic]

Another way of interpreting it could be:

While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends.

First: While time stop is in effect, you cannot be targeted or affected by my spells in any way.

Question: Is the wall of stone affecting you? Or is it merely forming around you?

Second: If a spell affects an area, and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop, it has normal effects on other creatures once time stop ends.

This means that it does not have normal effects on those creatures while the spell is ongoing.

We can safely establish that wall of stone affects an area. The duration is not longer than the remaining duration of time stop. Thus, the spell cannot affect you.
Aspects of Wall of stone:
1)creates a wall: doesn't affect you.
2)allows you a reflex save: is this an effect of the spell that affects you? If so, time stop makes you unable to use it, by virtue of being unable to be affected by the spell.

[SamTheCleric]

Honestly, I'm fine with not having a save...

But I would like an answer to the first question. If it was cast from a scroll, it's CL 9 giving it 30 hp. If you cast it, its CL 20, giving it 75 hp.

:)

[Talic]

Honestly, I'm fine with not having a save...

But I would like an answer to the first question. If it was cast from a scroll, it's CL 9 giving it 30 hp. If you cast it, its CL 20, giving it 75 hp.

:)

30 HP. Unfortunately, someone was in the air, lol. If I had 3 walls up, I'd be up there playing a lyre of building to negate all damage to the walls of stone for the next 30 minutes.

[Turcano]

First off, I make a Will save:
(1d20+41)[50]

And I have Mettle, so I don't have to worry about further damage.

Then I activate my Goggles of Seeing and retrieve and drink one of my potions of cure serious wounds, healing (3d8+5)[14] points of damage. And I think that's the end of my turn.

[Talic]

Top of the order.

Sam
Eldariel
Mage
Turcano

[rockdeworld]

I vote no save.

The key is in Wall of Stone's text:

It is possible, but difficult, to trap mobile opponents within or under a wall of stone, provided the wall is shaped so it can hold the creatures. Creatures can avoid entrapment with successful Reflex saves.

Emphasis mine.

Time Stop's text is as follows:

This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds.

Emphasis mine.

• Time Stop has the effect that the spellcaster (Talic here) cannot target other creatures with his spells. Wall of Stone does not target.
• Wall of Stone allows a saving throw for mobile opponents. During a Time Stop, all other creatures are treated as if frozen (read: paralyzed, unconscious, helpless, in other words: immobile).

Thus, by RAW, Talic's actions are justified.

[SamTheCleric]

I'll five foot step closer to the wall, draw a potion of cure serious wounds and drink it.

(3d8+5)[19]

End turn.

[Eldariel]

I'll fly 30' up to J9 elevation 55, and activate my Healing Belt for 2d8 points:
(2d8)[14]

Taking Int to AC and end my turn.

[Talic]

Eldariel, when you attempt to rise, you impact an invisible barrier. Specifically at J9, between the 30 and 35 elevation square. You've already started a move action, but if you'd like to change the standard action afterwards, you may.

[Eldariel]

I'll spend my Standard Action to use a Rod of Cancellation on the invisible wall, and Swift Action to activate Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker and move 15' up.

[Talic]

How are you getting the rod of cancellation into your hand?