A Role Reversed?

[Eldariel]

Actually, it does matter. Does it list a spell example? Because See Invisibility, a spell worded exactly the same way, does NOT penetrate this spell.

As I said, it's just a skill check; it doesn't draw any parallels to any spell. Here's the exact wording:
"As a swift action, you can attempt a DC 20 Spot-check. If successful, you focus your vision so clearly that you can pinpoint the location of invisible creatures within 30 feet. This clarity lasts until the end of your turn."

Really, the closest parallel I would draw is the Epic Spot-check that likewise enables seeing Invisibles. In fact, many skill tricks are simply epic skill uses with lower DCs (skill tricks are only usable once per encounter though, so it doesn't replace them, just makes the epic checks limitedly accessable earlier).

[Talic]

In that case, that's match.

This shows that an overly aggressive mage is vulnerable to optimized characters.

If you'd like to set it up again, I'll be happy to use the same character, same items, same spells, against the same three.

I shall then show you how it's played by a cautious mage.

[Adumbration]

If the character beats the DC by 20 or more, he or she can pinpoint the location of the invisible creature, though it still maintains total concealment from the character (50% miss chance).

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#spot

If it really is like the epic skill, you still have concealment...

[Solo]

In that case, that's match.

This shows that an overly aggressive mage is vulnerable to optimized characters.

If you'd like to set it up again, I'll be happy to use the same character, same items, same spells, against the same three.

I shall then show you how it's played by a cautious mage.

Can I bring my Decanters of Endless Water?

[Talic]

Can I bring my Decanters of Endless Water?

If you'd like to do repurchasing, I think that's easy enough. Rewind, Repurchase, and restart?

[Talic]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#spot

If it really is like the epic skill, you still have concealment...

With 16 attacks, he only needs 4 to win. I'm willing to concede the point, though pinpointing does still grant total concealment, correct.

[Adumbration]

Oh, all right. This has been a very interesting match to watch, though.

[Talic]

Wait for round 2. I don't intend to give my opponents any openings.

[Adumbration]

One day I'd like to pit my sorceror against that monster of yours.

[Talic]

That's no monster. If I wanted a monster, I would have made a fullcaster immune to all damage.

For this, I was trying to use a typical caster, without the key overpowered spells. I was doing this so that if won, it wouldn't be argued that it was the cheese that won.

[Adumbration]

... Damn, all this match I thought your guy was a wizard . Ah, well, I have to say, you could've done better with a few more rounds of buffing and some choice spells. Namedly Greater Arcane Fusion would've been nice, as well as Dragonsight, Eyes of the Oracle and Nerveskitter. As far as I've read these forums, they have not been directly connected with the cheese collection, Shivering Touch and Celerity.

In any case, I shall be looking forward to seeing how the next match goes, if it happens. Should be interesting.

[Eldariel]

With 16 attacks, he only needs 4 to win. I'm willing to concede the point, though pinpointing does still grant total concealment, correct.

That was only half of my full attack.


I'm up for a rematch, although I'd like a chance to fix my character up; the character is lacking 10 skillpoints, doesn't have prerequisites for Mage Slayer and overall just has a few things messed up, including the maneuver selection (he really should have Order Forged from Chaos). Also, I have Rod of Negation when I meant to have Rod of Cancellations. So yea, given chance to rework the character a bit, rematch sounds a fair game.

[Solo]

All I request is a +1 Halberd sheath that covers the blade.

[Turcano]

I'm game. Here's my updated build:

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Clodpool the Monastic Mage-Mangler

Human Hexblade 3/Monk 9/Occult Slayer 5/Cleric 1/Incarnate 2
Medium Humanoid (Human)
HD 15d8+5d10+80, hp 179
Init +10; Speed 60ft./x4
AC 38 (+8 armor, +6 Dex, +7 Wis, +5 deflection, +3 monk), touch 30, flat-footed 32
Base Attack/Grapple +16/+20
Full Attack +31/+26/+21/+16 ranged (1d6+9+3d6/casters, +5 magebane serren elvencraft composite longbow [+3 Str]) or +27/+22/+17/+12 melee (1d8+8+2d6/casters, +5 magebane serren elvencraft composite longbow [+3 Str])
SA & SQ: Armor restriction, elemental affinity (air & earth) (Ex), detect imbalance (Sp), smite extremist (Su), divine grace (Su), elemental burst (Su), hexblade's curse (Su), arcane resistance (Su), mettle (Ex), spontaneous casting, restricted spells, domains (pride, charm), turn undead (Su), AC bonus (Ex), flurry of blows (Ex), improved evasion (Ex), fast movement (Ex), still mind (Ex), ki strike (Su), slow fall 40 ft. (Ex), purity of body (Ex), wholeness of body, magical defense (Ex), weapon bond (Su), mind over magic (Su), vicious strike (Ex), auravision (Su), nondetection cloak (Su), blank thoughts (Ex)
Alignment N
Fort +28/+35, Ref +25/+32, Will +34/+41
Str 16 (+3), Dex 22 (+6), Con 19 (+4), Int 10 (+0), Wis 24 (+7), Cha 18 (+4)
Skills: Balance +20, Climb +9, Escape Artist +19, Jump +28, Knowledge (arcana) +7, Spellcraft +25, Spot +18, Tumble +22
Feats: Blind-Fight, Improved Trip, Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Occult Opportunist, Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Concealment, Pierce Magical Protection, Power Attack, Stunning Fist, Weapon Focus (longbow)

Important Equipment: +5 magebane serren elvencraft composite longbow [+3 Str] (77,000 gp), Bracers of Armor +8 (64,000 gp), Cloak of Charisma +4 (16,000 gp), Vest of Resistance +5 (25,000 gp), Monk's Belt (13,000 gp), Gloves of Dexterity +6 (36,000 gp), Ring of Protection +5 (50,000 gp), Headband of Wisdom +6 and Health +6 (custom item, X2.5) (90,000 gp), Scarab of Protection (38,000 gp), Winged Boots (16,000 gp), Manual of Gainful Exercise +2 (55,000 gp), Manual of Bodily Health +2 (55,000 gp), Tome of Understanding +2 (55,000 gp), stone of good luck (20,000 gp), pale green ioun stone (20,000 gp), Ring of Freedom of Movement (40,000 gp), Potion of Cure Serious Wounds x3 (2,250 gp), 3 rods of cancellation (33,000 gp), Hevard's Handy Haversack (2,000 gp), 2 tanglefoot bags (100 gp), 5 thunderstones (150 gp) Goggles of Seeing (custom item, see gem of seeing) (75,000 gp) Quiver of Elhonna (1,800 gp), 50 blue ice arrows (502.5 gp), 10 +1 phasing blue ice arrows (3,760.5 gp), 2 javelins of lightning (3,000 gp) 2 potions of resist cold 20 (1,400)

23 gp

Buffs: Indomitability, Greater Blink

[rockdeworld]

It's worth noting in advance what the Mage-Slayers' alignments are. In case of, y'know, a Chaos Hammer.

[Talic]

Mage gear will be reworked. Spell selection will remain the same. Buffs starting will change, slightly. Otherwise, I'll be good to go. (replacing metamagic rods of quicken with other rods).

[Solo]

Can't say if I'll have the time. Would like Eldariel to take over my character. Assume that i will be absent unless told otherwise.

Please continue my flamboyant antics.

[Talic]

We have plenty of other volunteers. If you don't have the time, I'd be more than happy to pull one of them in.

[Solo]

Sure, go for it.

[SamTheCleric]

What are the constraints for the mage slayers? can they, themself, be a type of caster... or we going non caster vs wizard?

[Eldariel]

No ability to cast over level 4 spells is the limit.

[Talic]

Constraints are classes which cannot, at any level, achieve higher than 4th level magic. Thus, Paladin and Ranger are ok, but Bard and Chameleon are out.

I'm looking over replacement rods.

[SamTheCleric]

Roger. I'm working on something now, if you've got a spot for me.

[Talic]

Spot held.

[Oslecamo]

Very interesting match. Is kinda funny the caster ended up being defeated by skills.

[SamTheCleric]

Erm, Sorry about the questions... but I assume standard WBL and averaging hit points?

EDIT: Here's the Wizard Killa' so far. A little off the wall... but I think it'll work.

[Talic]

Standard WBL (760,000 gp).

HP are max for 1st level, all levels after 1st are averaged.

[Talic]

Ghost Faced Killa? Nice. I'll be done with item lists by morning, sometime. It's hard to spend 760,000 gp. whew.

[Eldariel]

Here's my fixed up sheet:

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Dragonborn (Wings) Fire Elf Ranger 2/Targetteer 2/Warblade 6/Eternal Blade 10

BAB: 20/15/10/5
HP: 8+12d10+6d12+1d8+140 = 226
AC: 10 + 10 Dex + 6 armor + 5 shield + 3 deflection + 1 insight = 35
Touch AC: 10 + 10 dex + 5 armor + 3 shield + 3 deflection + 1 insight= 32
Speed: 30', Fly 30' (Good)
Initiative: 10+2+7 = +19

Base saves
Fort: 18
Ref: 8
Will: 5

Str: 16 (22)
Dex: 16 (30)
Con: 14 (22)
Int: 16 (20)
Wis: 8 (14)
Cha: 6

Flaws:
Poor Reflexes
Shaky

Feats:
F) Knowledge Devotion
F) Weapon Focus: Greatbow
1) Point Blank Shot
R) Rapid Shot
T) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Greatbow, Harpoon (Vital Aim as ability)
3) Mage Slayer
T) Hail of Arrows
6) Woodland Archer
W) Blind-Fight
9) Improved Flight
12) Power Attack
15) Martial Study: Shadow Blink
18) Martial Stance: Stance of Alacrity

Skill ranks:
5 Balance
23 Knowledge (Local)
23 Spot
23 Concentration
5 Jump
13 Tumble
11 Climb
5 Hide
2 Spellcraft
1 Sleight of Hand
Speak Language: Celestial

Point It Out
Collector of Stories
Spot the Weak Point
Clarity of Vision
Back on your Feet

Stances:
Blood in the Water
Absolute Steel Stance
Hearing the Air
Stance of Alacrity (on at the start)

Maneuvers:
Mountain Hammer
Wall of Blades
Moment of Perfect Mind
Iron Heart Surge
Iron Heart Endurance
Mind over Body
Douse the Flames
White Raven Tactics
Order Forged From Chaos
Shadow Blink
Diamond Defense
Time Stands Still

Class Features:
Ranger - Favoured Enemy: Arcanists, Spiritual Connection (CC), Track
Targetteer - Vital Aim, Hail of Arrows, Proficiencies: Longbow, Greatbow, Harpoon
Warblade - Battle Clarity, Weapon Aptitude, Battle Ardor, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge
Eternal Blade - Eternal Training 5/day, Eternal Knowledge (Arcana, The Planes, Nature, Dungeoneering, Religion), Defensive Insight, Tactical Insight, Island in Time

Equipment:
Tome of Dex +3 82.5k
Tome of Con +2 55k
2 Force Elvencraft Composite Greatbow +1 40k
1 Elvencraft Mw. Composite Greatbow (+3) 1.4k
Eager Greatsword of Warning +1 16.3k
50 +1 Magebane Arrows 8.3k
150 Mundane Arrows 20gp
48 Serrenwood Arrows 3.9k
200 Blunt Arrows 20gp
50 Adamantine Arrows 3.3k
Antimagic Torc 25k
Heward's Handy Haversack 2k
Chronocharm of the Grand Master .5k
Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker .5k
Cloak of Resistance +5 25k
Quiver of Ehlonna 1.8k
Ring of Mental Fortitude 110k
Ring of Freedom of Movement and Deflection +3 58k
Belt of Battle, Healing and Giant Strength +6 (as per MiC rules) 49.125k
Thistledown Padded Ghost Ward Armor of Greater Healing +5 60.7
Animated Ghost Ward Mithril Heavy Steel Shield +3 40.2k
Gloves of Dexterity +6 36k
Headband of Intellect +4 16k
Vest of Constitution +6 36k
Boots of Speed 12k
Dusty Rose Ioun Stone 5k
Eyes of Dark Vision, the Eagle and Wisdom +4 35.5k
3 Rod of Cancellation 33k
4 Potion of Enlarge Person .2k
Martial Script of Iron Heart Focus 2250gp

And my on-going buffs, maneuvers, etc.

Spoiler

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Spells on:
Greater Blinking
True Seeing

Maneuvers:
White Raven Tactics
Iron Heart Surge
Diamond Defense
Time Stands Still
Shadow Blink
Order Forged from Chaos
Moment of Perfect Mind
Iron Heart Focus (Script)

Stance of Alacrity

[Talic]

Please note: While it wasn't clarified at the beginning of the thread, all buffs that are cast upon you at the beginning of the match are assumed to be cast at Caster Level 20, for all spell effect purposes, including area of effect, range, duration, and dice rolled (example: wall of ice causes damage which scales with caster level).

Also, while I'm not disallowing multiple items (such as a cloak of charisma +6 and resistance +5), I shan't be using them, as I feel they're a touch on the cheese side.