Lord Soth V.S. The Witch King

[EvilElitest]

1) So because it's illegal it's also invalid?
2) No, you relied on sheer persistence. And actually due to the definition of "amazing" it does in fact make it an amazing webcomic. Also the people who remained unconvinced where intelligent and logical people so they could have been convinced had your arguments been worthwhile.
3) You left many things uncountered despite your claims otherwise.
4) So if ME doesn't win it's absurd...

1) For vs. threads, of course. Numbers are meanenless
2) No, a hoard of bleating sheep reciting praise does not make something good or something true. If the pouplation of china says the world is flat, that world is not flat. Quality over quantity, vs. threads aren't vote or polls, because that is just a popularity contest, not a discussion. Same with real debates
3) Actually no, my only uncountered point was the nature of WK's prophecy and the WK's protection vs. the Frostmourn, both of which were dropped. Also don't accuse me of stubborness it was the pro LK people who necro
4) I didn't say that, just the ones where Me is defeated from teh start are absurd, like ME vs. real life. I mean, there isn't any contest
from
EE
4)

[GoC]

1) For vs. threads, of course. Numbers are meanenless
2) No, a hoard of bleating sheep reciting praise does not make something good or something true. If the pouplation of china says the world is flat, that world is not flat. Quality over quantity, vs. threads aren't vote or polls, because that is just a popularity contest, not a discussion. Same with real debates
3) Actually no, my only uncountered point was the nature of WK's prophecy and the WK's protection vs. the Frostmourn, both of which were dropped. Also don't accuse me of stubborness it was the pro LK people who necro
4) I didn't say that, just the ones where Me is defeated from teh start are absurd, like ME vs. real life. I mean, there isn't any contest
from
EE

2. a. So you're calling numerous fellow giantitpers "bleating sheep" incapable of forming their own opinions?
b. The population of China isn't going to call the world flat because most of the population of China is intelligent.
c. Once the debate is over the "winner" is the person who's arguments would be most convincing to an intelligent person.
3. You left several things uncountered but they are currently in ancient threads I won't bother to dig around in so it's basically your word against mine.
4. But wouldn't Sauron use his awesome, globe-spanning, corruption powers that instantly turn every sentient creature in 1000 miles into his loyal slaves?
Don't you also remember that "a nuke wouldn't hurt him[Sauron]"?
And then he could use those amazing mountain destroying powers that someone mentioned in one of those deleted threads (had a black dragon avatar)... What did he say? Of yes I remember:
"Had Gandalf chosen to use his full power then Sauron would have done the same and Middle Earth would have been destroyed."

It certainly looks like there's a "contest".

[EvilElitest]

2. a. So you're calling numerous fellow giantitpers "bleating sheep" incapable of forming their own opinions?
b. The population of China isn't going to call the world flat because most of the population of China is intelligent.
c. Once the debate is over the "winner" is the person who's arguments would be most convincing to an intelligent person.

a) only if a statement is being badly misinterpreted. I'm saying numbers make no difference in a debate, like real debates. numbers mean BS, it means nothing. It is the arguments
b)your certainly being stubborn about missing the point. I'm saying if China said the world was flat, that would make no difference. Numbers do no defeat fact
c) And numbers make no difference, that just makes it a popularity contest. People support their favorite character or don't read the whole thread (IE, issue that came up because some posters didn't actually read the thread) or
because they haven't understood the argument. Numbers don't counter anything

3. You left several things uncountered but they are currently in ancient threads I won't bother to dig around in so it's basically your word against mine.

Considering your using faulty fact in the description of the thread.....

4. But wouldn't Sauron use his awesome, globe-spanning, corruption powers that instantly turn every sentient creature in 1000 miles into his loyal slaves?

Snark is like a sword, you don't use it well you only hurt yourself

Don't you also remember that "a nuke wouldn't hurt him[Sauron]"?

Personally i don't really think it makes a difference ether way, the US army would have enough nukes to destroy Mordor a few times over

And then he could use those amazing mountain destroying powers that someone mentioned in one of those deleted threads (had a black dragon avatar)...

Well you ether are miss quoting him or he is wrong.

What did he say? Of yes I remember:
"Had Gandalf chosen to use his full power then Sauron would have done the same and Middle Earth would have been destroyed."

It certainly looks like there's a "contest".

The US army can cause enough damage in such little time that Sauron couldn't mount a proper defense
from
EE

[Lepre_Khan]

Really, you're both missing the point.

The WK wins because he was written by a vastly superior author.

Though, if we have to dish it out by other means:

Wasn't the prophecy made more or less off-hand by Glorfindel? He came in and routed the Witch-Kings force, but rather than chase down and kill the WK, he instead says something to the effect of, "I suddenly feel that no man can kill the Lord of the Nazgul".

Also: Wasn't it, at least partially, Tolkien's frustration with Macbeth that led to this prophecy. He felt that Macduff's loophole was too forced (just as he felt that the forest should literally have came to the castle [two towers, eh?]. So from here it seems like it would be a lot more than just some fancy spell/sword (That Glorfindel surely could have handled).

[GoC]

a) only if a statement is being badly misinterpreted. I'm saying numbers make no difference in a debate, like real debates. numbers mean BS, it means nothing. It is the arguments
b)your certainly being stubborn about missing the point. I'm saying if China said the world was flat, that would make no difference. Numbers do no defeat fact
c) And numbers make no difference, that just makes it a popularity contest. People support their favorite character or don't read the whole thread (IE, issue that came up because some posters didn't actually read the thread) or
because they haven't understood the argument. Numbers don't counter anything

a) So you didn't actually call anyone a bleating sheep?
b) And I'm saying that these are intelligent people who have reasons for being unconvinced. Thus these aren't just empty numbers, they have meaning.
c) How on earth is this related to my c) that you were replying to?

Considering your using faulty fact in the description of the thread.....

Does that sentence make sense to anyone? I think you need to improve your grammar as I can't make head or tales of this.

Well you ether are miss quoting him or he is wrong.

Obvious much?
Please repair your sarcasm/snark detector.

[EvilElitest]

a) So you didn't actually call anyone a bleating sheep?
b) And I'm saying that these are intelligent people who have reasons for being unconvinced. Thus these aren't just empty numbers, they have meaning.
c) How on earth is this related to my c) that you were replying to?

1) I'm saying that numbers are meaningless
2) no they don't, for the same reason that numbers don't make a difference in formal debates, it is about the arguments, not the amount of people you can get to stat unbacked support.
3) That numbers are useless in proving a point, it is only a popularity contest

Does that sentence make sense to anyone? I think you need to improve your grammar as I can't make head or tales of this.

back of dyslexia. I'm saying that you can't call my stuff faulty when your using numbers as your proof of victory

Obvious much?
Please repair your sarcasm/snark detector.

It isn't funny enough to be worth mocking, and it is a second person source

Really, you're both missing the point.

The WK wins because he was written by a vastly superior author.

pretty much, i wish that worked more often

Though, if we have to dish it out by other means:

Wasn't the prophecy made more or less off-hand by Glorfindel? He came in and routed the Witch-Kings force, but rather than chase down and kill the WK, he instead says something to the effect of, "I suddenly feel that no man can kill the Lord of the Nazgul".

personally i think it is a protection that Glorfindal noted, you know like "Hey, that guy can't be hurt by men" or "Hey that vampire can't be hurt by non magical weapons" but it could just be he had the gift of forsight

Also: Wasn't it, at least partially, Tolkien's frustration with Macbeth that led to this prophecy. He felt that Macduff's loophole was too forced (just as he felt that the forest should literally have came to the castle [two towers, eh?]. So from here it seems like it would be a lot more than just some fancy spell/sword (That Glorfindel surely could have handled).

Yeah, Tolkien field the Shakesphere needed to make those prophecies more literal powers
from
EE

[Vael Nir]

internet, forum, arguing, serious business...

[EvilElitest]

internet, forum, arguing, serious business...

yes we've heard it
from
EE

[Occasional Sage]

Hoping to re-track this some, can somebody remind me what the actual details of Soth's resistances/immunities are? I haven't read any Dragonlance in years....

On the topic of Soth being able to affect the WK, I'm doubtful. He was a man in life, and has never stopped truly being one in the centuries since as his thinking and reactions show. There's the "undead" technicality, but if that were a serious way to circumvent the WK prophecy then I can't imagine other Nazgul leaving him to lead them. Yes he was more powerful than the others, but not that drastically, iirc.

Speaking of "in life," there was mention of beefy magic being able to affect Soth. With all of the power gained by the direct support of Sauron, wouldn't the WK's potency be right up there with what you'd need? It'd be roughly similar to a deity's avatar stepping in, I'd think.

[doliest]

Speaking of "in life," there was mention of beefy magic being able to affect Soth. With all of the power gained by the direct support of Sauron, wouldn't the WK's potency be right up there with what you'd need? It'd be roughly similar to a deity's avatar stepping in, I'd think.

Maybe, but the only people shown to overpower(Or can) Soth were
A.Mina-

Spoiler

Show

Who WAS a godess

B.Raistilin-

Spoiler

Show

Who would go on to time travel, attempt godhodd, and just generally overpowered most things that ever existed

Also to the person who said Tolkien was the better author...aside from being a bad arguement, that's an opinion, I personally hate anything Tolkien has ever written.

[EvilElitest]

apperently Doliest has no taste

Anyways, just because powerful people defeated Soth, doesn't mean that soth can only be overcome by powerful people. He is a death knight, so he is powerful, but not unbeatable
from
EE

[Occasional Sage]

apperently Doliest has no taste

Anyways, just because powerful people defeated Soth, doesn't mean that soth can only be overcome by powerful people. He is a death knight, so he is powerful, but not unbeatable
from
EE

So what ARE the limits of Soth's protection? I've gotten, "This is what we've seen work," but not actual limits. For all we know, Mina and Raistlin were overkill by a large margin, right?

[Lepre_Khan]

Also to the person who said Tolkien was the better author...aside from being a bad arguement, that's an opinion, I personally hate anything Tolkien has ever written.

A bad argument? You sir, are far too kind. It was in fact a terrible argument! A joke of an argument some might say!

That said, it's far from an opinion. Or, if it is an opinion, it's the correct opinion to hold as any English Major or professor or really, anybody qualified to hold opinions on that sort of thing, can tell you.

Whether you enjoy Tolkien or not doesn't take away from his skill as a writer.

[EvilElitest]

So what ARE the limits of Soth's protection? I've gotten, "This is what we've seen work," but not actual limits. For all we know, Mina and Raistlin were overkill by a large margin, right?

Well i can get teh states for a Dragonlance Deathknight if that could help
from
EE

[Innis Cabal]

Well i can get teh states for a Dragonlance Deathknight if that could help
from
EE

You should know better then to look at stats over fluff. Shame on you EE.

Id say its a tie honestly, both have ill defined ways to kill them off

[Mr. Scaly]

At last, a return to the topic at hand.

I distinctly remember two things that Soth is vulnerable to, as discussed by those who were about to be attacked by him.

A) Extremely powerful magic. At the time, only Raistlin had that kind of power and he was in another timeline.

B) Extremely powerful holy blessings/weapons, of which none existed at the time or with the power to produce them.

And C) a plot device god.

Spoiler

Show

Let's be honest...Mina/Takhissis/whichever one did it didn't exactly defeat him. She/they returned him to mortality then dropped his castle on him, killing him over again.

Now, I see no reason for someone as evil as the Witch King to have a holy weapon/blessing. That leaves ridiculously powerful magic. And from what I remember he was always more warrior than mage, using his magic only to fight with Gandalf and pick on halflings.

[EvilElitest]

You should know better then to look at stats over fluff. Shame on you EE.

Id say its a tie honestly, both have ill defined ways to kill them off

but it is cannon through
from
EE

[Innis Cabal]

Its as cannon as SM stats.

Only the Dark Powers really can beat Soth, and then he is only ultimatly beating himself.

[Rowanomicon]

I always wanted to see Soth enter this, but then I realized that A) nothing good could come of it and B) there's really no way to settle it.

I think a one on one match is pretty much a tie.

They are both top tier swordsmen. No clear advantage either way.
They both wield powerful magic, but both have protection from most magic.

If Soth could sneak attack WK with the proper potent spell somehow then he could likely win, but sneak attacks don't generally happen in such one on one matches.

I'm not even going to touch the army battle.

OK maybe I will.
Since this is Soth v WK I think it's pretty obvious that Sauron and other such superior don't get involved, but if they are to have their servants then I think they should have all of them (later you'll see this doesn't make much difference).
So WK, Soth, and everyone with a lower rank is involved.
I'm not sure what this means for Soth, but for WK it means everyone on his side except Sauron and Saruman.

I gather Soth's forces are outnumbered and WK's are outgunned. Correct?

As I said earlier it doesn't matter all that much.
After a while everyone except the top tier will be dead.
For the WK this means himself and the other Nazgul are still around.
I can't really think of anyone else that could make it off the top of my head, except maybe for beings like the spirits of the Dead Marshes and other evil spirit types. It's up in the air if the Fell Beasts could make it for the Nazgul to still have at this point.

For Soth I'd say he'd still have the older Dragon that are on his side, and probably other things that I can't remember since it's been so long since I've read the books.

Now I'm actually going to drop it as I don't know where to go from here.

Sorry for my ramblings and poor spelling and grammer. I really shouldn't post if I'm not going to take the time to post well, but I am anyway.

Oh, and Lepre_Khan, you made me chuckle (and I agree with you), thanks.

[Mr. Scaly]

On a side note, if WK was once human then could Tahkissis do to him what she did to Soth?

[doliest]

On a side note, if WK was once human then could Tahkissis do to him what she did to Soth?

Probably, although if tahkissis showed up herself, she'd just kill him for his insolence. The only reason she didn't with soth was because A. she wanted to recruit him, and B. She knew it was probably what he wanted.

[EvilElitest]

On a side note, if WK was once human then could Tahkissis do to him what she did to Soth?

i doubt it, because the WK's soul is in the One ring.


On the note of Soth, i say again, while the Wk is extremly hard to hurt, Soth is still a Death Knight. An extremly powerful and dangerous Death knight, but a death knight none the less. He can still be killed
from
EE

[Steven the Lich]

1) An illegal poll
2) polls mean nothing, because in terms of numbers, nothing is proved. Lots of people like Eragon, that doen't make it a good book
3) you simply repeated your arguments again and again.
4) most other ME threads have a clear conclusions, mostly ME winning, through few bring about losses

1) You were the only guy making a fuss about it, accusing me of starting a popularity contest when I was just attempting to moniter the beliefs.
2) Hey, Eragon was a good book. No one can deny that. Oh yeah, and polls do mean something. They represent the main populations decisions and choices. Most of what we have in government is made up of polls. Don't say they count for nothing.
3) Well... we attempted to bring evidence to the table (Which you did not see), and we were trying to hold a calm argument, only retaliating to insults.
4) Yeah, ME is not instant win. Never was, never will be. It actually does tend to be a handicap when compared to worlds like Azeroth in Warcraft or Eberron and Forgotten Realms in D&D.

3) Actually no, my only uncountered point was the nature of WK's prophecy and the WK's protection vs. the Frostmourn, both of which were dropped. Also don't accuse me of stubborness it was the pro LK people who necro

It was never actually settled. It left off with you self proclaiming that "You were winning the thread".
PS, I actually do know that Frostmourne can penetrate the Wk's armor. Chaos damage FTW (bypasses even the invulnerability cheat... yes, I know it because I cheated... so sue me)

1) I'm saying that numbers are meaningless
2) no they don't, for the same reason that numbers don't make a difference in formal debates, it is about the arguments, not the amount of people you can get to stat unbacked support.
3) That numbers are useless in proving a point, it is only a popularity contest

1) Yet you seem to rely on RPG sources alot, which are in form, just numbers.
2) You are saying that people don't have good reasons for what they believe? Are you the judge of good reasons?
3) Well... in technicalities, a vs. thread is a popularity contest. Sure its a debate, but is it not trying to prove strengths they have over each other, and who, ultimately based on arguments, wins? Yes. In that manner, it is a popularity contest. Note also how some people said in the poll that the LK side placed forth a better argument.

On the note of Soth, i say again, while the Wk is extremly hard to hurt, Soth is still a Death Knight. An extremly powerful and dangerous Death knight, but a death knight none the less. He can still be killed

But not permanently. I think it did actually take a god to kill him. I've only read this up in the first few pages of his history, he is like a lich, his soul is bound to the world by a tomb thing.
Also, saying he is just a death knight by his class isn't fairly judging him. He is described as one of the most influencing and evil characters in the early D&D years. You can't just say he's a deathknight and say that makes him killable. While true, it is incredibly difficult, and out of all the people who likely attempted, he was only defeated by two powerful beings.

And now my opinion... I agree with Rowan, the two sides are just so powerful. Soth does have fewer numbers, while WK doesn't have as much overall power. One could say that quality over quantity wins, but its truly debatable. Numbers don't win a battle, but they sure do help.

Oh, and I think that the one ring doesn't count for squat when Sauron isn't involved. WK is vulnerable thus in vs. threads. And it truly debateable if the soul is actually in it. Unless it is possible to get proof of such a claim, don't make it.

[Mr. Scaly]

i doubt it, because the WK's soul is in the One ring.


On the note of Soth, i say again, while the Wk is extremly hard to hurt, Soth is still a Death Knight. An extremly powerful and dangerous Death knight, but a death knight none the less. He can still be killed
from
EE

I'm sure he can. I already listed the known quantities that could hurt him, ridiculously powerful magic, very high level holy blessings/weapons, or a god. Unfortunately WK isn't a god and has nothing holy about him, and I honestly don't think his magic is strong enough.

[EvilElitest]

1) You were the only guy making a fuss about it, accusing me of starting a popularity contest when I was just attempting to moniter the beliefs.
2) Hey, Eragon was a good book. No one can deny that. Oh yeah, and polls do mean something. They represent the main populations decisions and choices. Most of what we have in government is made up of polls. Don't say they count for nothing.
3) Well... we attempted to bring evidence to the table (Which you did not see), and we were trying to hold a calm argument, only retaliating to insults.
4) Yeah, ME is not instant win. Never was, never will be. It actually does tend to be a handicap when compared to worlds like Azeroth in Warcraft or Eberron and Forgotten Realms in D&D.

1a) which is in essence a popularity contest, because the implication is that the numbers make some sort of difference in a debate. It doesn't
1B)

One Topic, One Thread
There should be, in most cases, one active thread for a specific topic. Please check and see if there is already an active thread (one that has been posted on in the last six weeks and is no further back than page 3) discussing a topic before posting a new one.

a survey on another thread is illegal. you could do a popularity contest "who do you like better?
2a) Eragon a good book. your kidding right. That thing is simply pathetic. And the place to prove it. Eragon was the work of a hack, and is utter disgrace to the fantasy genre
2b) Actually, if your referring to the American government, no. Popular vote decides who gets into office, but once there the guys make the decisions. We have a representative government. Also note national debates. Numbers are worth nothing, zip, nada, other fancy words in a debate
2c) and if you get a few million people to say Shreeded Moose is a great webcomic, that doesn't make it any less sexist and bad
3a) i did see the evidence, and acted upon it. Mr. Scaly and I am Undead brought up the most evidence that actually proved something. If we are going to talk about evidence, it was you trying to disprove the WoW RPG (Published with approval form blizzard and is considered cannon)
3b) Don't attempt to start the moral high ground, in you first post you called me a troll. It sounds great to act with more moral clarity, but anyone who read your original posts, while having valid points, were not a promotion of civility. (yes i still remember you accusing me of not providing page numbers i had provided long before you joined)
4) Yes. But it isn't instantly defeated by any of those setting actually

It was never actually settled. It left off with you self proclaiming that "You were winning the thread".

it was dropped because Rowan had long sense proved his point without being disputed. The case is still true

PS, I actually do know that Frostmourne can penetrate the Wk's armor. Chaos damage FTW (bypasses even the invulnerability cheat... yes, I know it because I cheated... so sue me)

1)

Frostmourne is a unique and indestructible item - an artifact-level bastard sword with the following abilities: an increased chance to hit, increased damage, an increased chance of scoring a critical hit, an increased attack speed, the ability to strike incorporeal creatures as though they were fully corporeal, the ability to cause bleeding wounds and reduce the victim's stamina, bonus damage against good-aligned beings, bonus damage against living beings, and a life-draining effect that heals its wielder when he deals damage. MoM 174

The chaos thing is vague, i think it means he can overcome natural armor, not sure about spells, because in WCIII it doesn't let him overcome protection spells i recall
2) Actually, that wasn't hte point of argument. The point was that if it did hit the WK (which ironically enough, i was fine with) would it be destroyed like any thing else it does. All items that touch him are said to be destoryed by the WK, and Frostmourn is said to be indestructible

1) Yet you seem to rely on RPG sources alot, which are in form, just numbers.
2) You are saying that people don't have good reasons for what they believe? Are you the judge of good reasons?
3) Well... in technicalities, a vs. thread is a popularity contest. Sure its a debate, but is it not trying to prove strengths they have over each other, and who, ultimately based on arguments, wins? Yes. In that manner, it is a popularity contest. Note also how some people said in the poll that the LK side placed forth a better argument.

1)........what? I mean numbers like numbers of people, not numbers literally
2) I'm saying that saying "I agree" doesn't prove anything. According to your logic, because China has 1.4 billion people who follow a communist (in theory) system they are right in saying it is the best system. Or if all of Asia decided to unite and become fascist, would that make them fight?
3a) No, vs. threads are like debates. Not a popularity contest, which are "I like him better" or "I think he is better" They are debates, and like real debates they are governed by logic and arguments, not masses of numbers. There is a reason why vs. threads generally don't have polls. I did a vs. thread once, Sora, vs. link. I put a poll up, Sora, link, and just for fun, link's hat. Link's hat got more votes than sora. By your logic, that means if Sora and link's hat fought, link's hat would win because of its vote count. Now we both know link's hat would win because it is awesome in every possible way but hey
2b) and that is all they said. That means nothing. Saying "I think their argument is better" means nothing, because nothing indicates the've read the thread nor understand the argument. That is nothing but a popularity contest

But not permanently. I think it did actually take a god to kill him. I've only read this up in the first few pages of his history, he is like a lich, his soul is bound to the world by a tomb thing.

Just because he was killed by a god doesn't mean a god can only kill him. And what about this tomb?

Also, saying he is just a death knight by his class isn't fairly judging him. He is described as one of the most influencing and evil characters in the early D&D years. You can't just say he's a deathknight and say that makes him killable. While true, it is incredibly difficult, and out of all the people who likely attempted, he was only defeated by two powerful beings.

Dude, Deathknight is a template. What is What he became, like a vampire

Oh, and I think that the one ring doesn't count for squat when Sauron isn't involved. WK is vulnerable thus in vs. threads. And it truly debateable if the soul is actually in it. Unless it is possible to get proof of such a claim, don't make it.

1)Actually i does in terms of soul it does make a difference, just not in any other sense. For example, the fact taht the WK comes back doesn't make a difference your right. But hte nature of his soul vs. certain effects yes. True if it was a god she could just destory him out right in another manner
2) He is said to be bound to Sauron and hte one right. Remember when they are destoryed at rivendale

Mr. Scaly

i need to check my books, but i don't htink those are the only things needed to hurt him. They work best i imagine but not hte only method

from
EE

[Innis Cabal]

i doubt it, because the WK's soul is in the One ring.


On the note of Soth, i say again, while the Wk is extremly hard to hurt, Soth is still a Death Knight. An extremly powerful and dangerous Death knight, but a death knight none the less. He can still be killed
from
EE

Umm..EE....no, the WK's ring was not the One Ring....that was Saurons and Saurons alone. In fact... the WK never wore it...not in anything printed......ever.....

[EvilElitest]

Umm..EE....no, the WK's ring was not the One Ring....that was Saurons and Saurons alone. In fact... the WK never wore it...not in anything printed......ever.....

that isn't what i'm saying. The WK's has his own ring, which is bound to Sauron's ring. So the Wk is bound to the one ring. that is why he can't be destoryed until it is, and why he serves Sauron. The WK never had the One Ring i know
from
EE

[Bago!!!]

I found Eragon a good read. Don't like it? Thats your oppinion EE. Calling the Author a hack, though I find that rude and wrong, your entitled to your oppinion. And if it is not a popularity contest, then how can you win? By smiting others with logic or simply telling the other side that they are wrong? Cause some people just don't know when to quit, and others are epic level necromancers. But I digress from the topic.

From what I have read about Lord Soth, he has slain epic creatures with but a word, penetrated cities thought unconquerable, devestated armies, achieved cursed immortality, out matched almost all with sword alone, and was defeated by the head of the dark pantheon who had to restore his mortality to do so. All I can say, from a brief reading, the very character just plain rocks the witch king's socks. His magics defeated a dragon, he can practically destroy many foes at once.

Just a death knight? I thought death knights were more significant than a vampire, just like ring wraiths are more significant than your average undead GI Joe.

Would write more, but it is late and I need to sleep.

[EvilElitest]

I found Eragon a good read. Don't like it? Thats your oppinion EE. Calling the Author a hack, though I find that rude and wrong, your entitled to your oppinion. And if it is not a popularity contest, then how can you win? By smiting others with logic or simply telling the other side that they are wrong? Cause some people just don't know when to quit, and others are epic level necromancers. But I digress from the topic.

1) No, when i say i don't like Star Trek, but i reorganize some of its good points, i just don't like. Calling him a hack is accurate, because that is what the books is the work of, somebody with no talent. http://anti-shurtugal.com/mission.htm see there
The book is nothing but the work of a hack, somebody without any talent working off of cliches and fridge logic
2) the same way you win real debate, through logic
3) you brought it back from the dead, not I

From what I have read about Lord Soth, he has slain epic creatures with but a word, penetrated cities thought unconquerable, devestated armies, achieved cursed immortality, out matched almost all with sword alone, and was defeated by the head of the dark pantheon who had to restore his mortality to do so. All I can say, from a brief reading, the very character just plain rocks the witch king's socks. His magics defeated a dragon, he can practically destroy many foes at once.

1) Fancy descriptions don't prove a point. I realize Soth is powerful, i just don't think he can win
2) Um, he got cursed with immortality, nothing special
3) He was defeated by the dark godess, don't mean nobody else coudl hurt him
4) His magic scared a dragon i believe, i don't recall him killing one.

Just a death knight? I thought death knights were more significant than a vampire, just like ring wraiths are more significant than your average undead GI Joe.

I need to check hte rule book again, but i think they are just freaking powerful, not absurd
from
EE

[warty goblin]

4) His magic scared a dragon i believe, i don't recall him killing one.
EE

Having just read Legends recently I can officially say that Soth killed a dragon. Of course he did it in a timeline that never technically happened, but he is capable of doing so. Specifically in the "Raistlin becomes a God, kills everything" timeline when Soth assaults Palanthas, Tanis challenges him. Soth breaks out the Power Word Kill on Tanis and the dragon he's riding- Tanis is protected by the bracelet thingy, but the dragon goes to that great goldpile in the sky.

On another note, the actual power of Soth is, at least in the books, rather hard to quantify, but is pushing the top of the charts. Here's a few examples that come to mind:

When Soth tried to kill Crysania, Paladine wasn't able to actually stop his spell, but only alter its effects somewhat from "Very, completely and irrevocably dead" to "pretty much like dead, but capable of being brought back by like three people in the history of the universe, all of whom have been dead for 300 years." That's the best that one of the most potent dieties was able to do against Soth's magic.

He scares Tasslehoff. That's like, damn...

He even scares Ariakas, which is no mean feat, given that Ariakas is regularly in communion with the most evil being in the cosmos. In fact it's not 100% clear from the books whether or not Ariakas would be able to beat Soth.