Erfworld 110, Parson's Klog 12

[SteveMB]

Hmm. An even further step down Delusion Road for the barbarian princess? I guess whether or not she does, and how desperately Jillian would cling to it, will answer the question of whether she's a Broken Bird or not.

It would be interesting to see her STILL believing in Wanda to some degree, but I think it's more likely that she'll be disillusioned and heartbroken at this point. Though where that'll lead her characterization for the rest of the story I don't know.

I'm inclined to think that you're right; the shock of Jaclyn getting croaked just after getting too close because she was trying to inform her that Wanda wasn't under a loyalty spell might be what it takes to blow away the last layers of rationalization.

[teratorn]

Ansom is strong, bright, with high charisma, everything about him is optimized, something a munchkin would make. Parson on the other hand...

From the top picture it's obvious that Ansom ended his turn (it's night). Next turn it's Jillian's.

The story is coming to an end in a few more strips and it's better that we are informed beforehand of what happens if the city falls. I prefer the klog format for that, but some people never liked it much. Of course it's also possible Jamie is teasing us. I don't know about the rest of you, but I want to see uncroaked Jaclyn.

[Wender]

I'm inclined to think that you're right; the shock of Jaclyn getting croaked just after getting too close because she was trying to inform her that Wanda wasn't under a loyalty spell might be what it takes to blow away the last layers of rationalization.

It's quite possible that she will swing too hard the other way: Why was she left completely untouched by Wanda's fireworks display? Sure, it could have been because she is just so powerful that she "made her save," or something like it, but it is also likely that Wanda deliberately acted to spare her.

The seed of doubt has been planted in Parson's mind now, too. Sure, he waves it away, but it's there. Wanda herself is now the only answer he has for Jillian. Meanwhile, I expect that there will be renewed pressure on Ansom to rein in Jillian, which is a no-win situation for Ansom to be in, and even more friction between Ansom and Vinnie.

Stanley seems to be continuing along his Lear-in-miniature subplot: In exile, lost (I'm wondering if he hasn't lost his way in the mountains, to boot), alone socially if not physically, with only a fool for company. Others have noted this upthread, but I have to pick at it some more. It seems significant to me that Stanley is confronting the reality of what he so arrogantly swore he would do—under the assumption, no doubt, that he would continue to be as charmed as he had been since discovering the Arkenhammer—and this is not what he signed up for. Perhaps if he reaches a moment of perfect despair and then receives a thinkagram from the people he was sure he couldn't trust, bearing exactly the information he needs, he will get a morale boost and head back to GK? The more hopeless and aimless his quest for Faq becomes, the more likely this outcome seems to me. He might be so far away that it takes him an agonizingly long time to get back...

[edit to add: I vastly prefer the klog updates to any attempt to shoehorn exposition into the comic. It makes sense that if the readers are puzzling over the same thing that Parson is, the place to show them hints, if not answers, is in the very medium where Parson does his puzzling. Anything else would be artificial.]

[dr pepper]

The Bachelor's in English Literature side of me approves...the MBA side of me wants the printed books to come out soon so I can feed the demand curve.

Hopefully, the gamer side of you can't wait for the home version.

[Tarnace]

Am I really that unfair?

Props for a recent update
Flops for making it a k-log

[fractal]

Am I really that unfair?

Props for a recent update
Flops for making it a k-log

I'll take whatever they want to put up, the pictures are nice, but the story and world are fascinating.

I like Parson's logic, btw. If he is to have a chance of winning, he needs for Wanda to be loyal. If she's not, everything is lost anyway, so he might as well assume that she is loyal. So, he does. It saves unnecessary time and worry about something he can't do anything about.

[Gez]

No, I saw it, but there's nothing that says Stanley is the only one with dragons.

If Stanley met a dwagon that wasn't his ally yet, he'd just show the arkenhammer and blamo! Instant ally. It's how it works.

Those are the three hobgobwin knights he took with him back then. He could only take three with him.

I think that Ansom looks so sad because finally he realized the really big boop he has gotten himself into.

And then he looks at his loyal soldiers, who are happilly chating by the fire, and this makes him even sadder.

It's one of these "OMG what have I done? They fought for me, they are willing to die for me, they're there all happy trusting I have a good plan, and I'm leading them all to their deaths because I was such an idiot! How did I reach so low?"

This is, even Ansom is bound to have sentiments. Power rose to his head when he become boss, and now he seems to be starting to recover his reason.

I think you meant Stanley. Ansom is the blond-haired radish-boy.

[Monan]

Stepping back out of the story and thinking about wargames in general, i think it's quite reasonable that killing a leader ends a side, at least in a game where all issues seem to be purely personal. But here's a question-- what of a conquered side that was never destroyed, and that has a designated heir-- when the conquering side is neutralized, does the conquered side regain its original loyalty? If so, Jillian would be able to claim her city just by entering it openly.

I'm still waiting to see what happens when Parson has a whole sword.

I wonder what new things have been coming in in his "Stupid Meals."

[Ptorquemada]

I like the klogs. They're a great way to pack several strips worth of exposition into one update. As a result of this one we now know:

1. just what "Didn't lose" meant and
2. what happens to GK and Parson if Stanley gets croaked.

I'd say that's a fairly major update in terms of plot, since there's been a LOT of speculation in the forums about Stanley's potential croakification and the effect on people we actually care about as a result.

In re Stanley's mood: While he's clearly not expressing great joy, it's a little harder to say what he IS feeling. I suspect that he's aware (because of natural thinkamancy) that the air defenses were fired and that the city hasn't fallen yet, so he's trying to figure out exactly what happened. He'd have to know that minus the dwagons GK couldn't hope to take out all of Ansom's air units, so why didn't they press the attack?

[HOLEkevin]

So these are just bonus pages? Hunh. Okay, that's cool.

[Vreejack]

So these are just bonus pages? Hunh. Okay, that's cool.

Apparently they can't quite get a real page together at thew moment. I wonder if they will keep these for the paper version. The material is interesting but I think I would prefer to have my questions answered by discovery in the story itself.

[Tarnace]

Apparently they can't quite get a real page together at thew moment. I wonder if they will keep these for the paper version. The material is interesting but I think I would prefer to have my questions answered by discovery in the story itself.

You are 100% correct. Part of good story telling is being hit by the unexpected or seeing old things grow, blossom and come to fruitition. While most stories "hint" at things, K-logs "klog" up the immersion by removing the story aspect and adding tacticle data that with all due respect has no merit without the world system explained. While many have argued about it's importance origionaly k-logs were only meant to help the story move along at first and give people a better feel for the "new" world. Now at almost 100 issues (should be 110 now) we still have them and they still just tell us about the current situation that we already know about.

Props - recent update
Flops - it's a k-log again

[Tarnace]

So these are just bonus pages? Hunh. Okay, that's cool.

Yes they are a "bonus" as in they are added in to supliment the main story. Unfortunatly the "bonus" is fairly weak as they come as often as real pages (approximatly every 3 weeks) and usually instead of them meaning the average new page is 3 weeks unless there is a klogs making it approximatly 6 weeks.

[fendrin]

You are 100% correct. Part of good story telling is being hit by the unexpected or seeing old things grow, blossom and come to fruitition. While most stories "hint" at things, K-logs "klog" up the immersion by removing the story aspect and adding tacticle data that with all due respect has no merit without the world system explained. While many have argued about it's importance origionaly k-logs were only meant to help the story move along at first and give people a better feel for the "new" world. Now at almost 100 issues (should be 110 now) we still have them and they still just tell us about the current situation that we already know about.

Props - recent update
Flops - it's a k-log again

You are obviously unaware of the literary device known as a 'monologue'. You should look it up some time. A few of the less famous writers have used it occasionally. Like that little-known hack scriptwriter known as Shakespeare.
For those who think I am am denigrating monologues, script/playwriting, and/or Shakespeare, you have missed the sarcasm.

Yes they are a "bonus" as in they are added in to supliment the main story. Unfortunatly the "bonus" is fairly weak as they come as often as real pages (approximatly every 3 weeks) and usually instead of them meaning the average new page is 3 weeks unless there is a klogs making it approximatly 6 weeks.

12 Klogs, 98 regular pages. That makes the Klog pages a whopping 11% of the strip. If 11% is 'as often' as the correlating 89%, then one of us needs to revisit basic math.

[SteveMB]

I wonder what new things have been coming in in his "Stupid Meals."

The last few have been parts of a sword (the hilt, and then part of the blade). Presumably the pointy end of the blade will show up at the start of his next turn.

[gymbrall]

12 Klogs, 98 regular pages. That makes the Klog pages a whopping 11% of the strip. If 11% is 'as often' as the correlating 89%, then one of us needs to revisit basic math.

I think Tarnace meant that we don't get the updates any more frequently when they post a Klog entry. (as in we've waited 3 weeks before only to get a Klog and then two weeks more for a regular page - though this week we've had two in pretty quick succession)

Having said that, I pretty much completely disagree with Tarnace about the value of the Klogs. Some of favorite works of fiction have used similar methods to convey what would normally be dry exposition (typically in a quoted block at the beginning of a chapter, such as in Robin Hobb Assassin and Fool series, or in footnotes, such as in "Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell", "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", or any of Terry Pratchett's Discworld.)

Anyway, as it is, I'll take what I can get.

[Jeivar]

It occurs to me now, what with Parson's statement that the remaining air units could have killed Wanda, that maybe her pure, distilled, eeevil look on page 98, panel 7 was due to seeing that she still has some influence over Jillian; At least to the point that Jillian was unwilling to strike back. Kind of a "Heh, still got her," look. Satisfaction at just how deeply her manipulations have affected the barbarian.

[Yodimus]

I don't understand how Klogs are filler. If "The Watchmen" had been a webcomic, all of those newpaper articles and "behind the mask" excerpts would have been treated as regular updates too. Or do you guys consider those to be filler as well?

I find it interesting that Parson has basically just said that he hasn't just accepted, but is actually willing to die for this cause. He even implied that he *could* try to negotiate a surrender, and lord knows he's got the knowhow. But he's not.

Gamer 4 life, yo, indeed.

Actually if Parson times his 'Ultimate Strike of Awesome' (which may not exist) just right - since the enemy fliers will take time to catch Tool - he could win the war AND become a neutral kingdom. :D
This election season: Vote Parson for Overlord!

[Eco-Mono]

Another Klog? They're just filling aren't they? So can't Stanley designate a successor? But he's a bit stuck up for that.

Even if he wanted to, I doubt he has the scratch.

But we still don't know how far "Special" goes.

[fendrin]

I don't understand how Klogs are filler. If "The Watchmen" had been a webcomic, all of those newpaper articles and "behind the mask" excerpts would have been treated as regular updates too. Or do you guys consider those to be filler as well?

They are considered filler because that is their intent (or at least it was originally, from my understanding). They were not originally part of the plan. That being said, "Life is what happens when you are making other plans." Sometimes an unplanned deviation makes a work of art better, not worse.

I find it interesting that Parson has basically just said that he hasn't just accepted, but is actually willing to die for this cause. He even implied that he *could* try to negotiate a surrender, and lord knows he's got the knowhow. But he's not.

Gamer 4 life, yo, indeed.

It could be the Loyalty thing as he mentions, but I also can't help but wonder if he still hasn't accepted the 'reality' of his situation. In other words, the idea that getting croaked would cause him to wake up in the real world might be floating around in the back of his pudgy head.

Actually if Parson times his 'Ultimate Strike of Awesome' (which may not exist) just right - since the enemy fliers will take time to catch Tool - he could win the war AND become a neutral kingdom. :D
This election season: Vote Parson for Overlord!

That would be... interesting. Also, that would make for a good break point between chapters, especially seeing this was an 'intro' chapter. It would allow erfworld to undergo any number of changes while not allowing Parson to 'get his bearings' any more than he already has.

[Charlicat]

In re Stanley's mood: While he's clearly not expressing great joy, it's a little harder to say what he IS feeling. I suspect that he's aware (because of natural thinkamancy) that the air defenses were fired and that the city hasn't fallen yet, so he's trying to figure out exactly what happened. He'd have to know that minus the dwagons GK couldn't hope to take out all of Ansom's air units, so why didn't they press the attack?

Thanks bunches for that insight! I hadn't thought about the "end-of-turn" update that he probably gets due to his faction leader status. Who knows...maybe he didn't expect GK to stand for long but is now concerned that he won't reach FAQ (or wherever he's going) before it falls. I'd assume he'd need GK to stand long enough for him to access the treasury to do whatever it is he's planning to do.

Intelligent, strategic discussion is fun!

[Ptorquemada]

Who knows...maybe he didn't expect GK to stand for long but is now concerned that he won't reach FAQ (or wherever he's going) before it falls. I'd assume he'd need GK to stand long enough for him to access the treasury to do whatever it is he's planning to do.

I hate to read too much into a single expression. Maybe he's afraid of the dark, or maybe he got a bad buwwito. Could be anything, really.

But, yeah, he could be concerned that things are starting already. He probably planned on at least another turn before the Coalition troops got there, figuring that they'd wouldn't pull an airstrike unsupported by ground troops. That would give him two puzzles: why did Ansom even bother with all the ground/siege troops if he was going to go the aerial route, and having done so, why didn't he follow through with it?

[charles]

Jillian, acted during Ansome's turn, As did the troops headed into the tunnels. But at the end of Jillian's turn she broke away, created a new side and met up with additional CharlesComm forces.

Jillian will now begin her next turn at dawn BEFORE STANLEY AND PARSON. Which mean's she's about to catch up to Stanley before Parson can unleash his plan.

I suspect that the Foolamancer is the same one that Jillian mentions, who came from Croatan (What I suspect is her original tribe, since it's mentioned as Wanda's). I'll bet Jillian catches Stanley in her turn, recognises the foolamancer, calles his name which wakes him from his defective state and finds out why Wanda is supporting Stanley.

Parson gets his turn to completely ruin Ansome's plans and then it's Ansome's turn to wrap up with the realisation that he's defeated.

Basically, I'm guessing that this is the last turn of the game. But as for the Klogs. Heck, I love extra information so I love the Klogs. If you removed the Klogs, I think the story pages could stand on their own but I think they're great as both a filler and extra tid-bits to flesh out the world. Its the problem you get with an entirely new world, you need to describe the entire world unlike a simple superhero in the normal world where the hero's the only odd thing that readers are unfamiliar with.

[Rosnet]

Oh my God! Moderator! They are talking about the update schedule and frequency! LOCK THIS THREAD IMMEDIATELY! Look, they actually used the word "schedule" and that is forbidd....AHHH!! I used it too! Look at what I have become, I can't even have a discussion about the discussion about the schedule...AHHH! I did it again!

Anyway, poop on buying any print products of this. By the time this story ends gas will be $13 a gallon and we'll be living in Waterworld where paper is a luxury.

And another klog, yay. There should be 10 of these for every page. I know text is hard to write and all.

[SteveMB]

Jillian will now begin her next turn at dawn BEFORE STANLEY AND PARSON. Which mean's she's about to catch up to Stanley before Parson can unleash his plan.

I suspect that the Foolamancer is the same one that Jillian mentions, who came from Croatan (What I suspect is her original tribe, since it's mentioned as Wanda's). I'll bet Jillian catches Stanley in her turn, recognises the foolamancer, calles his name which wakes him from his defective state and finds out why Wanda is supporting Stanley.

It would be a more difficult situation for her to try to hold any kind of conversation, though. First, I don't see how she could encounter the Foolamancer without Stanley's immediate interference (the way she encountered Wanda without Parson's immediate knowledge). Second, I'm sure Vinny and the surviving Archons would just love the idea of throwing away the initiative again so Jillian could have a chat -- I mean, it worked out so well the last time.... Third, well, it's her chance to croak Stanley. Is anything else going to divert her attention from that?

Parson gets his turn to completely ruin Ansome's plans and then it's Ansome's turn to wrap up with the realisation that he's defeated.

That would be quite a bitter pill to swallow, especially if (as I suspect) there's a layer of motivation beyond his public one of wanting to "end a great evil" and beyond his sorta-semi-admitted desire to uphold "the royalty thing". I think he wants to prove (including to himself) that Stanley is not favored by the Titans over him, the apparent verdict of the attuned Arkenhammer and the non-attuned Arkenpliers notwithstanding.

[fendrin]

maybe he got a bad buwwito

KISS: "How 'bout more beans, Mr. Tool?"
Stanley: "I'd say you had enough!"
(thank you Mel Brooks)

Jillian, acted during Ansome's turn, As did the troops headed into the tunnels. But at the end of Jillian's turn she broke away, created a new side and met up with additional CharlesComm forces.

Jillian will now begin her next turn at dawn BEFORE STANLEY AND PARSON. Which mean's she's about to catch up to Stanley before Parson can unleash his plan.

We don't know how many turns it will take for Jillian to catch up to Stanley for instance, one possible scenario:

 . . . . . . . F
. . . . . . . . 4
 . . . . . . . 3
. . . . . . . . 3
 . . . . . . . 3
J 1 1 1 1 2 2 3 *
 . . . . . . . 2
. . . . . . . . 2
 . . . . . . . 1
. . . . . . . . 1
 . . . . . . . 1
. . . . . . . . S

Where F is Faq, J is where Jillian started, S is where Stanley started (on the turn that Jillian started), and the numbers are where they are on that particular turn. * is where the combat would occur(on turn three, on Jillian's phase, so Stanley is still at the end of his turn two movement). I worked from the assumption here that Stanley was faster (as dwagons seem to have superior movement). However, this sort of thing could be created using any relative movement speeds because we do not know the relative distances involved. I also assumed that Killian doesn't want to go directly to Faq, as that would give away it's location to the other forces involved.

EDIT:
Doh! Why didn't I think of this earlier? Of course Ansom put Jillian in charge instead of Vinny. Jillian is Royalty, Vinny is just a noble, and thus inherently inferior in every way. Why would he put someone inferior in charge?

[charles]

Well, the comic was ment to finish around this time.

We've got Parson about to get the last part of his sword for his turn and Ansome getting ready to launch his final big plan at the end of his.

Makes sense that Jillian catches Stanley next turn to wrap all this up, but we can't have her croak him, unless Parson's "Special" distinction can help him there. Stanley's only had two turns of movement with B-class Dwagons, so Jillian's made one round of movement towards him and she's about to make a second to catch him. Plus while Jillian has "doesn't know what she wants" listed as a failing point, Stanley has "knows what he wants" listed as an advantage. And how else will we find out why Wanda follows Stanley?

Its a great chance to get some answers on how and why FAQ fell and any conspiracy surrounding the demise of King Saline IV. Jillian's in charge of the force and she's a barbarian, so her loyalties are her own.

[bengator]

Oh my God! Moderator! They are talking about the update schedule and frequency! LOCK THIS THREAD IMMEDIATELY! Look, they actually used the word "schedule" and that is forbidd....AHHH!! I used it too! Look at what I have become, I can't even have a discussion about the discussion about the schedule...AHHH! I did it again!

Anyway, poop on buying any print products of this. By the time this story ends gas will be $13 a gallon and we'll be living in Waterworld where paper is a luxury.

And another klog, yay. There should be 10 of these for every page. I know text is hard to write and all.

Kudos as to locking the forum. I can't stand that you can't be critical of update frequency. How thin skinned are these guys? If you don't like it or can't take it, then yank it and put it out directly in print, not webcomic, form. But I would think that would be very bad for business. They create a buzz from the internet with which they promote their products, both Erfworld and others, so they receive an indirect, if not direct, financial benefit from these pages. So I think its fair criticism and a bit of a dodge to say that we shouldn't complain for products that we get for free. The writers are free to, as I would, simply ignore the criticism and put out the work when they have the time to do so.

If Rosnet and others don't like the update frequency, they are free to stop reading. But is it really that big a deal to check the site once and a while? I come to the site for OOTS, and if there's an Erfworld update, I check it out. It just hurts Erfworld's story to have such a long time between updates because it becomes difficult to keep up the momentum and the nuances of the plot. It would be nice, and beneficial, I think, to the writers, to have more frequent updates to engage the readers.

Having said all that about censoring criticism, I like the klogs. The world that they have created is very complex, and there are elements such as rules, etc., that would be very difficult to share without sidetracking the story, which I find compelling. The klogs provide a background depth that is needed, especially for a casual reader like myself that hasn't put the heavy thought into the comic, that many here on the forum have, as to just how the Erfworld world operates. I don't view klogs as bonus, but as updates, that provide me more to chew on, give context to some of the pages from the past and give insight into Parson's character, although the hamster jokes usually go right over my head!

[charles]

There's quite a bit of delay on updates but the whole point is that they intend to update as frequently as they can and complaining about it won't improve the speed. It'll only clog up the forum and demotivate this incredible team. yes I know I said clog. "But hey. **** you, anyway" (if you take offence, then you don't really know what I'm talking about).

I don't know why I never looked this up but Parson's webcomic, Hamstard, actually states: "I like some older PC fantasy strategy games like Warlords IV and Civ II, and some RTS like AoE"
Now check out Warlords IV and Civ II and a lot of stuff matches up VERY WELL. Man! even now these guys are putting in the effort for those of us who want to take the time to dig deep.

[dr pepper]

Just had a thought. In real world wargames, all units in the same hex are considered encountered by all opposing units that enter. Is it that way in Erf? If so, how could Jillian see Stanly and the foolmancer separately? But if not, how could a leader be sure that all their units are actually stacked?