117 The Battle for Gobwin Knob 105

[DCR]

<hackslashsnip>
But he's been getting a fragment of his sword with every meal - and breakfast hasn't come for his side yet.

What will the next Stupid Meal hold?

Meh. Sword forgets you must. It's coming, one way or the other. What I'm concerned about HASN'T come. Parson's been there in Erfworld for what, five days (turns) now? What is taking Gobwin Knob FIVE days to pop?

Must admit, I'm thinking in HoMM terms - could be WAY off. But it does give a reference point for comparison. In HoMM you get several dozen first and second tier creatures per week, so say, a dozen a day low tier creatures. You may get 3-8 top tier per week, so mebbe 1 a day (or turn, stay with me), or one every other day, uber unit. Ain't seen boop. Or heard, "A spidew popped yesterday, Lord Hamster."

What if a caster is queued? Or Warlord? Or flight of dwagons? Feels a bit deus ex (ha! now go re-install!), but it IS a legit possibility that could help get the odds up above 58%.

My two cents of little monetary value.

[The Adder]

And that is why Parson is not the Magnificent Bastard of Erfworld. For awhile, he was but once you are played you stop being a Magnificent Bastard. Now, if Parson comes out on top and at least equal with Charlie (so, not as a minion), then he gets his crown back.

A Magnificent Bastard being beaten by another Magnificent Bastard does not make their Bastardry any less magnificent. Take for example Light and L. They were both undeniably Magnificent Bastards, no matter how many times one magnificently out Bastarded the other.

[Lamech]

Hmm... Jillian is about to get stomped, Ansom has archers to spare, and Stanley hates Charlie and wants his dish, and Charlie has sent 32 Archons out of his base and is sitting right over Parson, Parson wants to win and save his friends in Erf.

I know how to make everyone happy 'cept the universally hated Charlie. Marbits move to the garrison the remaining treasury is spent on more blastity spells (to be saved or used on Archons). Air force goes up shielding the garrison (for a "round" at least), archons shot down, and become uncroaked. Parson and friends fly out (after telling them the Titans plan talked about by Stanley is joining up with RCC), meet up with Stanley and go stomp Charlie, (as soon as Stanley enters with the hammer no more Arkendish, massive bonus for uncroaked Archons who will probably want Charlie dead, for selling their bodies, mind controlling them, and risking their lives).

Ansom can probably be convinced that Stanley's self interest is in doing this, and its the only way to save Jillian. Stanley I have no idea. Also while the Archons will probably blast Charlie, they may be able to beat Stanley anyway and make off with the dish, and the Archons at GK may not be able to killed.

Might work, might not...

What if a caster is queued? Or Warlord? Or flight of dwagons? Feels a bit deus ex (ha! now go re-install!), but it IS a legit possibility that could help get the odds up above 58%.

I think that casters are somewhat random because of the comment they are "rare and valuable", not expensive and powerful. (On the other hand maybe they can only be built at certain random times.) I assumed dwagons were probably a hammer only thing.

[LordVader]

Meh. Sword forgets you must. It's coming, one way or the other. What I'm concerned about HASN'T come. Parson's been there in Erfworld for what, five days (turns) now? What is taking Gobwin Knob FIVE days to pop?

Must admit, I'm thinking in HoMM terms - could be WAY off. But it does give a reference point for comparison. In HoMM you get several dozen first and second tier creatures per week, so say, a dozen a day low tier creatures. You may get 3-8 top tier per week, so mebbe 1 a day (or turn, stay with me), or one every other day, uber unit. Ain't seen boop. Or heard, "A spidew popped yesterday, Lord Hamster."

What if a caster is queued? Or Warlord? Or flight of dwagons? Feels a bit deus ex (ha! now go re-install!), but it IS a legit possibility that could help get the odds up above 58%.

My two cents of little monetary value.

Ohoho, maybe Parson's holding out for an Ancient Behemoth, that'd be great.
Just imagining any of the HoMM III Level Sevens taking on an Erfworld army is hysterical. And it would certainly fit with the rarity, this whole thing's reminded me of HoMM since the start anyways, especially how crucial cities are to recruitment and funds, and how people level up and carry artifacts.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I really hate tvtroopes or whatever is the name of the thing. All this talk about Magnificent Bastards is getting on my nerves. One of the things I like about Erfworld is that the character's roles are not as simple as that.

Parson is not and never was magnificent, he's just trying to survive without giving up on this battle.

Nobody said that Tropes are simplistic. In fact, Tropes Are Not Bad, but rather a part of any work of fiction. The fact that characters like Parson are more than a single trait is speak highly of the writing in Erfworld, but that does not mean his traits do not have names.

I would object to your characterization of Parson as just "trying to survive." Look at the sheer glee he takes in discovering new and insidious methods of defeating his foes. Heck, it is impossible to deny that he enjoys the battle even if it means killing, deceit and a thousand other things he wouldn't try in RL. An interesting part of Parson's character is, in fact, the tension between his "game self" and "real self" in Erfworld - the same man who is broken up by the death of Misty is unable to comprehend that killing is killing, even in Erfworld.

EDIT:

A Magnificent Bastard being beaten by another Magnificent Bastard does not make their Bastardry any less magnificent. Take for example Light and L. They were both undeniably Magnificent Bastards, no matter how many times one magnificently out Bastarded the other.

Hmm... a valid point. I would distinguish that case in that while Light & L were dueling, neither was ultimately under the thumb of the other. Even when Light was imprisoned, he could plan and move against L.

Here, Parson isn't dueling with Charlie - Charlie just put him in a box. Right now, Parson is begging for time; he doesn't have any plan for how to out-fox Charlie, and Charlie knows it. The sheer dominance of Charlie at this juncture just overwhelms the little moments of glee that Parson had before - heck, his plan didn't even work at the end.

Parson's good, but he's going to have to take another level in Badass to have the control and style needed to really be Magnificent.

[Doctor Zuber]

My understand was that the Arkenhammer allows Stanley to control any dragon. So nobody in their right mind will use dragons against him because he would just wave the hammer at them and suddenly be in control of the unit.

Otherwise, as far as I know dragons are popped normally to whoever cares to build them. This also help to explain why they're using such silly flyers as peeps to stand against Stanley. Because using dragons against him is suicide.

[Zeku]

One thing we've kind of been ignoring for a while now is...what is the actual strategy Parson will use? We debated it endlessly on the donut of doom, and yet never now, perhaps because it's less obvious.

I have a feeling, after seeing this strip, that the strategy from the beginning was to play CHARLIE, not Ansom. You see, Charlie is greedy, it's the easiest thing in the entire world to predict.

First, the idea of faction betrayal was planted in Ansom's mind. This is not that important, but it's necessary.

Second, Parson tells Charlie about the artifact, not to actually get something out of Charlie, but just to let Charlie know that the artifact exists. This is also to test the limits of Charlie's thinkamancy, whether he had the ability to see if the other person was lying.

Third, Parson waited for both the deal from Charlie, and the following visit from Charlie, which you see in today's strip. The most important thing he's said so far is 'why don't you leave my airspace.' He knows that if he says this out loud, it is the one thing that Charlie won't do, not when he's sure he's won. Now, all Parson has to do is destroy the air commanders, and any Alliance air units that enter GK airspace will have no choice but to engage Charlie. (which means there will be no air attacks)

Fourth, Parson knows by the force composition that only Ansom's own units will be taking the city. (both for greed of spoil, and for honor) This means that Sizemore will be doing the bulk of the damage, no doubt completely sealing Ansom's forces inside the caldera, perhaps without even engaging them with units. All the fighting takes place on the walls, without air support.

I can't be totally certain about how the battle plays out at the end, but I think this is close.

[ishnar]

I don't get how people try to call Parson a Magnificent Bastard. He is neither Magnificent nor a bastard.

He doesn't even approach Rommel or share any of his qualities, except maybe strategy.

A MB is an ACCOMPLISHED bastard, Parson is still a wannabe whatever the future may hold. After he beats Charlie at his own game, then Parson will be a MB candidate.

Meh. Sword forgets you must. It's coming, one way or the other. What I'm concerned about HASN'T come. Parson's been there in Erfworld for what, five days (turns) now? What is taking Gobwin Knob FIVE days to pop?

Probably one of the points most overlooked here. But ya, What takes 5 days to pop. Probably another Dragon or maybe it's like Warhammer and you pop an entire squad, not just one unit at a time.

[DCR]

I have a feeling, after seeing this strip, that the strategy from the beginning was to play CHARLIE, not Ansom. You see, Charlie is greedy, it's the easiest thing in the entire world to predict.

Parson's too unbalanced after recieving eyeMs from Charles in 112 and 116-117 for that. But yes, selfish ambition can be fairly easy to predict. Unless they want you to think that way.

[Hectonkhyres]

Ohoho, maybe Parson's holding out for an Ancient Behemoth, that'd be great.

Yes, but what pops is a hundred foot high Hamstard. The new unit is based around the will of its creator.

[teratorn]

Otherwise, as far as I know dragons are popped normally to whoever cares to build them.

I don't think it works like that. If it were so Jetstone would have its own archons or gwiffons.

[dr pepper]

Here, Parson isn't dueling with Charlie - Charlie just put him in a box.

But Charlie doesn't know about quantum mechanics.

[tanonx]

I think that little 'heh' in there by Parson could be more about how Charlie just fell into something very bad. Parson's used his greed to get him to wait around an extra turn for the attack, waving the Arkenpliers in front of him. Once (if) the (by now fairly apparent) betrayal sham on Charlescom is played out, and the air command is removed, Com and the Alliance will be smashing each other up above. And Parson said that without Charlescom intereference, he had slightly better than even odds. Failing to mention that with the interference his odds would improve. He also had his bases covered, as if Charlie pressed further, he'd be able to say that if Charlie attacked, he'd have standard decreased chances, giving Charlie the info he thinks he needs.

Also, on the topic of those 5 days, do casters take up city production to create their units? There've been Boop golems being made, and uncroaked, that much we know for sure.

And I think MB-ness is based more or less on just how elaborate the plan is, and how easily they could make a Xanatos Roulette look like a Gambit. By this light, Parson is ten kinds of Chessmaster, with a bit of awesome going for him, but he's not so much Bastard, not by lack of competence as much as lack of the stylistic edge it implies.

[fractal]

If anyone wants a guess as to the total number of Archons, btw, I'm going to go ahead and say 32. Note that in the last panel they're divided into four groups, with clearly no room for a 5th. Since stacks get stronger up to size 8, but receive no benefit past 8 units, it seems reasonable to assume that each of those four groups is a stack of 8 Archons.

[Laurentio II]

Come to think of it, time doesn't seem to pass until a side ends their turn. What happens if one side simply refuses to end the turn?

Food, cleaning and healing came at start of your turn. Moving is limited to your movement stat every turn. A "frozen" side would slowly grown hunger. Hunting seems to be possible, but the limitation of movement means that you can't do it forever. After a time, you have to finish the turn, or die for starvation. And the guy after you would take the upper hand just because he receives food while you still are starving.

But honestly, I think that it's out of Erfworld cultural possibility to refuse ending a turn when you have done. It would like saying "Well, I can stop people using the road in front of my house if I get my own interiors and lay them on the road, with a sign saying "Don't step my interiors please". This way I can get a nap without car's noise". While theoretically possible, I'm sure no one would ever think to do it for real.

PS: if you thought it, please don't. It's bad for you. Really.

[LordVader]

I think that little 'heh' in there by Parson could be more about how Charlie just fell into something very bad. Parson's used his greed to get him to wait around an extra turn for the attack, waving the Arkenpliers in front of him. Once (if) the (by now fairly apparent) betrayal sham on Charlescom is played out, and the air command is removed, Com and the Alliance will be smashing each other up above. And Parson said that without Charlescom intereference, he had slightly better than even odds. Failing to mention that with the interference his odds would improve. He also had his bases covered, as if Charlie pressed further, he'd be able to say that if Charlie attacked, he'd have standard decreased chances, giving Charlie the info he thinks he needs.

Also, on the topic of those 5 days, do casters take up city production to create their units? There've been Boop golems being made, and uncroaked, that much we know for sure.

And I think MB-ness is based more or less on just how elaborate the plan is, and how easily they could make a Xanatos Roulette look like a Gambit. By this light, Parson is ten kinds of Chessmaster, with a bit of awesome going for him, but he's not so much Bastard, not by lack of competence as much as lack of the stylistic edge it implies.

I don't know, if he manipulates ErfWorld's resident Magnificent Bastard into conflict with his former allies, that'd be quite a stylistic piece of Bastardry.

[DigoDragon]

(Note to self: When I have a continually-updating form of fiction, I WON'T have forums for it. Watching people completely misinterpret- or completely miss- what's going on must be painful.)

Maybe it's painful, or maybe it's purely entertaining to watch the readers squirm when the next strip blows their minds with a new plot twist they didn't see coming.


Edit: Also, I like how Parson makes Charlie aware that Jetstone could beat him if it came down to a fight over GK. Fun.

[Gamebird]

I think those odds are "autoresolve" odds. ... Basically, I'm saying my auto-resolve odds were pretty pathetic, but by leading the enemy out of position, doing flank attacks, and doing other attacks specifically to hurt the enemy's moral, I was able to turn a hopeless fight into an undisputed win.

I took it more as that the Leadership bonus *was* the effect of leading units personally, directing them to specific targets, etc. Auto-resolve was when a leaderless stack engaged another leaderless stack and a chaotic general melee occured.

[TheJustWiseSage]

Well, it may be that the sword will either be able to grant the wielder fighting skill or alternately will control itself. It still might not be enough to make him a master warrior, but it would be a big help.

It should at least grant him an artefact bonus to his leadership of +2 which then applied to all units within the capital see Klog 4

If he was attuned to it (assuming it's like the arkenhammer etc) then goodness knows what it grants him, a higher bonus, even direct control over a unit type?

[SteveMB]

It should at least grant him an artefact bonus to his leadership of +2 which then applied to all units within the capital see Klog 4

If he was attuned to it (assuming it's like the arkenhammer etc) then goodness knows what it grants him, a higher bonus, even direct control over a unit type?

The question is whether the sword is like the glasses (simply giving him the same ability an Erfworld warlord would normally have) or like the armband (giving him a major benefit).

[Lamech]

It should at least grant him an artefact bonus to his leadership of +2 which then applied to all units within the capital see Klog 4

If he was attuned to it (assuming it's like the arkenhammer etc) then goodness knows what it grants him, a higher bonus, even direct control over a unit type?

The artifact bonus may not be a buff to leadership, but possibly just a every unit in the hex/stack gets a bonus. Although its a magic toy from a untested source, so it could do that even if normal artifacts don't. And if he is attuned to the sword, there goes my just give it to Bogroll/knight theory, (stupid plausible counter-theories). Hey has Parson checked if his gauntlet gives an artifact bonus?

[Name Lips]

How can Charlie "assist if necessary" -- either side -- if his turn is over? He can't just swoop in and save the day in a dramatic sequence, can he? He'd have to wait until his next turn to act...

[fendrin]

How can Charlie "assist if necessary" -- either side -- if his turn is over? He can't just swoop in and save the day in a dramatic sequence, can he? He'd have to wait until his next turn to act...

There's no indication he was referring to this turn. He's essentially going to 'watch the show' for a turn and then act appropriately.

[SteveMB]

There's no indication he was referring to this turn. He's essentially going to 'watch the show' for a turn and then act appropriately.

Yep. Ansom now needs to not merely take GK, but take it and bring in forces sufficient to prevent Charlie from making his own move next turn.

Given that he's willing to engage in sharp dealing (while not technically violating his alliance agreements), it seems that his earlier cavils about protecting his reputation were strictly limited to observing the jot and tittle of his contracts.

And it was Ansom who gave him the loophole, with the double-move sploit. Just one more thing for the alliance leaders, who are already questioning his judgment, to throw in his face if the fractures in the Coalition grow wider....

[fendrin]

Yep. Ansom now needs to not merely take GK, but take it and bring in forces sufficient to prevent Charlie from making his own move next turn.

Given that he's willing to engage in sharp dealing (while not technically violating his alliance agreements), it seems that his earlier cavils about protecting his reputation were strictly limited to observing the jot and tittle of his contracts.

And it was Ansom who gave him the loophole, with the double-move sploit. Just one more thing for the alliance leaders, who are already questioning his judgment, to throw in his face if the fractures in the Coalition grow wider....

Keep in mind though that as far as we know Ansom still has no indication that Charlie has failed to contract with Transylvito. Even if he does know, he probably hasn't told the other faction leaders.

[Lamech]

Keep in mind though that as far as we know Ansom still has no indication that Charlie has failed to contract with Transylvito. Even if he does know, he probably hasn't told the other faction leaders.

He will probably have some questions as soon as Charlie tells him, "I'm here to assist if nessacary". So will the other faction leaders. If Charlie is evassive Ansom and the other faction leaders will think the worst. If Charlie tells Ansom he ditched completely, Ansom will go beserk. Worse, he will probably become irrational about Jillian. Ansom might want to smash those Archons, he might even be able to convince the coalition.
P.S. Am I throwing out to many random theories?

[Aquillion]

How can Charlie "assist if necessary" -- either side -- if his turn is over? He can't just swoop in and save the day in a dramatic sequence, can he? He'd have to wait until his next turn to act...

He's in the hex. We don't know if that would let him interfere in combat, but in any case, there's no reason to think he couldn't simply ally himself with one side or the other during their turn. While I doubt this would give his units new move if done mid-turn (that would be an absurd exploit), it would almost certainly let them assist that side while in the same turn.

[DCR]

Yes, but what pops is a hundred foot high Hamstard. The new unit is based around the will of its creator.

Yeah, having read Hamstard's comic strips, I'd fear that unit.

[SteveMB]

Keep in mind though that as far as we know Ansom still has no indication that Charlie has failed to contract with Transylvito. Even if he does know, he probably hasn't told the other faction leaders.

Hmmm... judging from the intial confusion about why Plaid's turn hadn't started at dawn, units automagically know whether or not it's their turn. However, it's not clear if they know whose turn it is (if not theirs) unless there's an obvious indication (like units moving into their hex). Ansom might not know that the Archons are moving on Charlie's turn (independently) rather than on Transylvito's turn (as part of the new alliance Charlie was supposed to make).

However, the real question for Ansom is why Charlie is sending in all those additional Archons. It's unlikely (to say the least) that Charlie would just spontaneously provide lots of free extra support, unless he expected to get something big out of it. Another possibility is that Don King hired the extra Archons to make his own play for GK (opening yet another potential crack in the Coalition).

If Parson thinks about the question "What's Ansom going to make of this development?", he may yet turn this to his advantage.

[headhoncho]

What I get from Parson is that he is an awesome strategist, but also a master improviser who is best at reacting and rolling with the punches. Charlie's action isn't some part of his master plan that Parson was assuming, in fact from the previous strips we know Charlie got one over on Parson regarding the unrestricted mathemancy calculations.

But Parson's dealing with the situation as it develops, and even now is seeking to turn it to his advantage. To me, Parson isn't acting like a chessmaster at the moment, looking three or four turns ahead, but rather like someone who is concentrating wholly on the current step or the very next step. He is putting out fires, which given the situation he's been placed in, seem to start multiple times per turn.

Maybe when he gets some more space and breathing room, he'll be able to show off more chess-like skills. But until then, it's amazing that he's even been able to hold out this long.

I love the idea of him using Charlie's presence to bait Ansom into attacking the aerial Archon stacks, somehow.