Finding a good superhero game

[Tadanori Oyama]

I'd like some suggestions for superhero typed games. I'll be running and implimenting the new game, whatever it is.

My group is familiar with the d20 system (D&D mostly) and half of them are used to other rules systems as well.

I'm thinking of playing Mutants and Masterminds, it looks like a very open system. I've heard of Exalted fitting into this category as well.

So, any favorites to suggest, methods to make starting the new game easier? I'm open to any and all advise.

[hamlet]

Go get Palladium's Hero's Unlimited.

It's an excellent and very flexible system and those familiar with D20 will feel at home with it.

Have fun.

[Stupendous_Man]

m&m is good.

i hear warlocks make good equivalents of superheroes for d&D, and i've always wanted to try out an all warlock party..... might be interesting.

[batsofchaos]

Mutants and Masterminds all the way. The character building system is immense; I'd suggest setting a session aside solely for character creation. You will more than likely need it. That said, it's very versatile and expansive. Practically any sort of super-power you can imagine is available, and since it's a point-buy-based system you can customize characters to exactly the sort of character you want. Add in the fact that the abilities can be fluffed however you want, and you have a highly customizable game that can accurately recreate practically any idea you can come up with for a superhero.

[Grynning]

I have to disagree with using Palladium's Heroes Unlimited system. Like all Palladium games, it's messy and inconsistent, but the balance issues in HU are particularly glaring. A max level non-powered "gadgets and guile" character is nigh useless against even a first level flying brick type. Unless everyone power-games to the hilt (including the GM) it becomes not fun very quickly.

I highly recommend M&M 2nd ed. as a system. Been playing it for about a year now and I have very few complaints about the mechanics. It's a little more complex and you have to be willing to spend some time crunching numbers, but it allows you to create characters with ANY type of super-abilities (or lack thereof) you can think of, and since it uses a rank-cap system rather than levels everyone will remain fairly balanced. As a GM you should pick up the main book and the "Ultimate Power" supplement, and your players can get by with the cut-down softcover rulebook that sells for quite a bit less.

Edit: To be fair, I own a large number of Palladium books and have played almost all of their games. I just can't recommend HU for a first-time supers game, it will only lead to disappointment. Palladium's system works best for very low-powered games (unfortunately their most popular setting is Rifts, which is ground up meant for power-gaming, which means the whole thing breaks very quickly).

[hamlet]

I have to disagree with using Palladium's Heroes Unlimited system. Like all Palladium games, it's messy and inconsistent, but the balance issues in HU are particularly glaring. A max level non-powered "gadgets and guile" character is nigh useless against even a first level flying brick type. Unless everyone power-games to the hilt (including the GM) it becomes not fun very quickly.

Unless you realize that balance isn't really the province of the rules, but of the GM, and very specifically so. It says right out front that not all the character types are of equal power and that, in a straight up fight, many "mundane" characters will lose, badly, to even a minor super in the system and that it's up the the GM to build the campaign in a way that all characters have something to contribute.

Of course, if you try to treat all problems as a nail and you think the only tool worth having is a hammer, you're simply not going to have fun.

[Grynning]

I think many, many discussions on this and other forums have led to the conclusion that any system which relies too heavily on "Rule 0" for balance is not a well-made system. Having ran 2 and played in several more HU games I can say pretty definitively that it has major balance issues, regardless of how well the GM attempts to regulate the available power types and classes. I can also say that it's pretty disappointing to a player when they have a character concept in mind that simply doesn't work because they're not in the same league as the other players/baddies when it comes to power level.

M&M addresses these issues by using a well-constructed point-buy system that caps power ranks so everyone is on a level playing field, regardless of their character concept. I'm a convert, what else can I say?

[hamlet]

I think many, many discussions on this and other forums have led to the conclusion that any system which relies too heavily on "Rule 0" for balance is not a well-made system. Having ran 2 and played in several more HU games I can say pretty definitively that it has major balance issues, regardless of how well the GM attempts to regulate the available power types and classes. I can also say that it's pretty disappointing to a player when they have a character concept in mind that simply doesn't work because they're not in the same league as the other players/baddies when it comes to power level.

M&M addresses these issues by using a well-constructed point-buy system that caps power ranks so everyone is on a level playing field, regardless of their character concept. I'm a convert, what else can I say?

You may have concluded it, but those of us who disagree have not conceded it.

Having played in HU campaigns for YEARS at a time, I can say that neither I nor the group I game with have ANY troubles at all with the system or its balance issues.

I think that people who claim balance issues as a crippling flaw for the system simply misunderstand what Palladium's guiding game design principles are.

[Ecalsneerg]

I think many, many discussions on this and other forums have led to the conclusion that any system which relies too heavily on "Rule 0" for balance is not a well-made system. Having ran 2 and played in several more HU games I can say pretty definitively that it has major balance issues, regardless of how well the GM attempts to regulate the available power types and classes. I can also say that it's pretty disappointing to a player when they have a character concept in mind that simply doesn't work because they're not in the same league as the other players/baddies when it comes to power level.

M&M addresses these issues by using a well-constructed point-buy system that caps power ranks so everyone is on a level playing field, regardless of their character concept. I'm a convert, what else can I say?

M&M stil has the 'Rule 0' approach. Yes, the book does spell out that allowing Duplication with the Horde extra and Progression 5 is perfectly rules legal, but the GM should still disallow a character which can summon 100 copies of himself with a standard action. Very Rule 0.

That said, I'd still recommend M&M. Flaws like this are merely by-products of allowing pretty much everything and anything, and with a few exceptions the book points out to you, is very balanced overall.

[Morandir Nailo]

Throwing my hat in for M&M2e. Tons of flexibility, and since it uses d20 as a base your players will already be familiar with the combat basics.

Mor

[clericwithnogod]

Champions (I prefer running with the 4th edition Big Blue Book) or DC Heroes are my two top choices.

I really like Heroes Unlimited (and mixing in a little Ninjas and Superspies can be fun as well). I've never had any problems with it as a player or gamemaster.

[Tadanori Oyama]

Your only the second guy I've ever had mention Champions. The first one said good things about it.

I'll probably go with M&M for now and move into others once I'm used to running the genre a little more.

Thanks for the advise.

[Knaight]

M&M is good, although character creation takes a while. If you want a lighter system, Fudge Superheroes is good.

[Ascension]

I tend to support Silver Age Sentinels, but that's mostly because I found the hardcover SAS book, unused, for five bucks a while back, only to find, after I was done with my rejoicing, that apparently everybody and their cousin has switched to M&M... I'm too cheap to buy the M&M book, so instead I sit here on the side of the road with SAS trying to convince someone to play with me instead of following the crowd...

...

...I'm so lonely-y-y!

[Tadanori Oyama]

...

...I'm so lonely-y-y!

There there, I understand. I mean, I'm still gonna go play M&M and leave you wallowing in sorrow there but I understand.

[Collin152]

The Classic Marvel Superhero game.
It's free, easy, and fun. And fairly balanced, unless your only powers are breathign water and changing the color of things.

[Jayabalard]

While I know people who don't care for it, if you want to do a supers game that is a mashup of other genres (magic, sci-fi, psionics, steampunk, swashbuckling, martial arts, cyberpunk, mystery, horror, etc) you could pull it off quite well in GURPS.

If you do, though, I advise discarding the default GURPS supers game world... it's kind of meh...