A lurker's guess of Parson's plan

[danidas]

I posted the below message in the 118 page 106 thread but i felt other mite want to share their guesses as well.

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I figured that i should step out of my vial of lurkery to post this.

Here is my theory into Parson's plan based on what we currently know.

When Parson had Sizemore attack the marbits in the tunnels with extreme force it allowed Parson to make Ansom think that Gobwins garrison was where ever that attack came from. Since Ansom wants the tunnel forces to hit the garrison than it is save to say that Webiner is heading to that same spot with the tunnel forces. Now when i look at the pictures of Gobwins knob i can't help to get the feeling that Parson is about to have Sizemore kill 2 birds with one tunnel collapse per say. In other words i have the feeling that the one and only ramp up to Gobwin knob is about to go bye bye. This will wipe out both the tunnel forces and it will kill a nice chunk of the coalition forces as well as cutting off any reinforcements (the siege).

Now that the coalition forces are vastly cut down in force it would place the ball in Parson's court. Where i can't help to wonder what would happen if Parsons forces would bust though the wall from the inside out and what damage the collapsing wall will do to Anson's forces. If that is possible than it will cut the coalition forces power down even more. Making them easy picking for Gobwin Knob's forces and would allow Parson to take out the coalition with the least amount of casualties on his side.

Knowing my luck thou the author has something completely different in mind. This was just exactly what i would try to pull if i was in Parsons shoes.

[EricP]

I am guessing it has to do with the volcano. Like a lava trap. Flooding the tunnels with lava, that when cooled, harden and block tunnels. Following it with a frontal assault, pushing the main force into the lava pouring out of the tunnels.

But you're right, knowing Parson, it is more than that. He has to win big this turn or next turn, Charles is in Charge. If he wins big enough, Charlie may cut a deal and help Parson for the Mathmancy artifact.

[Richbin]

I can just see a combination of Charred corpses through the laval flows being gushed out back to the entrance newar three troops, only to be doubly animated, both as golems and undead, with Parson as the perfect Warlord giving them bonuses sstacked on the Dirtomancer and Croakamancer and throw in som Maggie tomfoolery stacked on top, and you see utter devastation follow - FEAR!!!!
Brrrrr.

[L'Aent'fon]

Hmm. Interesting idea. I like.

Also I wonder if Parson intends to take advantage of Charlies' presence with some precision strikes and then leading people around by the nose?

As I recall, leaderless stacks have to start fighting (and fight to the death) when they have some sort of contact with the enemy. I'm curious: if Parson were to split his "air force" -- stationing one "undead-unipegataur" in the same hex/arial-battlefield-area as each of Charlies' Archon-stacks; what happens if, say Sizemore and his golems do the hit an enemy stack, punch a hole to the leader, croak leader, disengage (wash, rinse, repeat) ... then have some of the surviving tunnel forces retreat to the surface, leading Ansom's leaderless stacks into a combat in a hex containing non-allied troops? We know leaderless stacks must attack enemies ... and we know that if you have a leader-unit, you can hit a stack, isolate commander units kill their "screening" forces, and eliminate them from the battle. We also know that you can withdraw from a fight you've started if you've got a leader and move.

I could see, with a bit of luck, that swarms of Ansom's leaderless crossbow-Marbits may well chase one or two retreating Gobwins or Uncroaked into a battle -- said battle occuring in an Archon-occupied hex ... single Gobwin infantry / piker / Uncroaked bites it ... then Ansom's guys open fire on the lone Undead-Unipegataur, it dies ... then, lacking a leader to call off the assault at that stage, Ansom's forces open fire on Charlie's Archons -- the only remaining "non friendlys" in the hex. Trading one or two wounded units to wipe a stack (or multiple stacks) of hostiles is not a bad tactic.

Basically if Parson could arrange for Ansom's forces to run headlong into Charlie's forces then both the groups threatening Parson's current position would maul each other -- and I wouldn't be surprised, given Charlie's apparent encirclement of the Tower, that Leaderless stacks would have to kill the Archons before moving through that battlezone to the tower itself.

But I don't know enough of the mechanics of combat to say for certain. Perhaps there is no necessity for leaderless stacks to engage "neutrals" in the same battlefield-hex. Although, if "engaging neutrals" could be provoked, even one such fight may convince Ansom that Charlie has changed sides and result in Ansom's forces ordered to remove the Archons as a preliminary measure to taking the city.

<chuckle> ... using the threatening forces of Charlie as "Archon Shields" (ala Human shields!) ... the idea amuses me.

[SteveMB]

Hmm. Interesting idea. I like.

Also I wonder if Parson intends to take advantage of Charlies' presence with some precision strikes and then leading people around by the nose?

As I recall, leaderless stacks have to start fighting (and fight to the death) when they have some sort of contact with the enemy. I'm curious: if Parson were to split his "air force" -- stationing one "undead-unipegataur" in the same hex/arial-battlefield-area as each of Charlies' Archon-stacks; what happens if, say Sizemore and his golems do the hit an enemy stack, punch a hole to the leader, croak leader, disengage (wash, rinse, repeat) ... then have some of the surviving tunnel forces retreat to the surface, leading Ansom's leaderless stacks into a combat in a hex containing non-allied troops? We know leaderless stacks must attack enemies ... and we know that if you have a leader-unit, you can hit a stack, isolate commander units kill their "screening" forces, and eliminate them from the battle. We also know that you can withdraw from a fight you've started if you've got a leader and move.

Hmmm... using the auto-engagement rule to set up a "Let's You And Him Fight" situation would be a neat trick -- providing a tactical advantage and leaving Ansom convinced (rather than merely suspicious) that Charlie has totally backstabbed him.

The question is whether ground units and air units count as "in contact" (perhaps it depends on whether or not the specific ground units are able attack the air units).

[Laurentio II]

The question is whether ground units and air units count as "in contact" (perhaps it depends on whether or not the specific ground units are able attack the air units).

Air units can be attacked only by flying or long range units. We can honestly suppose that troops meant for underground fighting are not flying, nor long range. So this tactic is not supposed to work.

At the same time, I won't count on "suddenly unit animation / uncroakment" as we know that it's a slow, dedicated work.

Now, a thing that I noticed one hundred of times, but never really questioned...

why. the. boop. does GK have a road around the walls? Who is the utterly booper that made a wide attacking site around perimeters walls?

"My Capital is ready, and can be attacked only by air or a small tunnel!"
"Or the road around the walls."
"Or the road around... what? Which road?"
"Ehm... I thought that it would had be nice to have some carnival around the city..."

[Richbin]

For all we know, that road was actually built there by Sizemore, and will be collapsed into the abyss upon command... :)

[Ben]

Hmmm... using the auto-engagement rule to set up a "Let's You And Him Fight" situation would be a neat trick -- providing a tactical advantage and leaving Ansom convinced (rather than merely suspicious) that Charlie has totally backstabbed him.

The question is whether ground units and air units count as "in contact" (perhaps it depends on whether or not the specific ground units are able attack the air units).

The only problem is that the theoretical non-led stacks will auto-engage any non-allied stacks. This includes GK forces, since the airspace is only attackable from the Garrison, and if any side gains complete control over the garrison, they obtain control over the city.

An interesting tactic might be to use the foolamancer to veil units in the garrison, so that Ansom's ranged attackers would auto-engage the only non-allied units they see (the archons).

On the other hand, this would be very risky, and it would involve letting many tunnel units survive until they get another turn. I get the distinct impression this isn't part of Parson's plan (especially since he made this plan before Charlescomm showed up).

[Burrito]

Another thing we can only conjecture on is Parson's Mathamancy on the outcome of Gobwin Knob surving the battle were done before the turns breakfast treats popped. That can only stack the odds in Gobwin Knobs favor even more. Unfortunatly I don't think we will ever really get to see a complete list of all units and their stats.

As far as one more crazy theory about parson's next move. I am going to assume Gobwin Knob is just one hex (I am pretty sure it is). If Parson were to have every unit stack with Sizemore, and then Sizemore were to set off the traps/spell/uber plan, wouldn't they all get experience points for it? wouldn't they all level up once or twice killing off all those marbits? In many games, even if the smallest noob unit doesn't do anything, but they are "in" the attack with the bigger units, they still get some of the experience points.
Erfworlders usualy don't boost the stacks past eight units because they don't get more bonuses for it, but we have already seen Parson exploit the "customary tactics" that are used in Erfworld. He gets to look at this whole situation as a metagamer.

Anyway, just another opinion.

[Fuzzypaws]

As far as one more crazy theory about parson's next move. I am going to assume Gobwin Knob is just one hex (I am pretty sure it is). If Parson were to have every unit stack with Sizemore, and then Sizemore were to set off the traps/spell/uber plan, wouldn't they all get experience points for it? wouldn't they all level up once or twice killing off all those marbits? In many games, even if the smallest noob unit doesn't do anything, but they are "in" the attack with the bigger units, they still get some of the experience points.
Erfworlders usualy don't boost the stacks past eight units because they don't get more bonuses for it, but we have already seen Parson exploit the "customary tactics" that are used in Erfworld. He gets to look at this whole situation as a metagamer.

That's actually a good plan. Even if GK takes up multiple hexes, which I believe it has been stated to do so, I'm sure the units have enough move to move one hex over, stack up, get experience points, then move back wherever Parson needs them to go next. And that's even if they have to spend move to move around the capital, which I think I vaguely remember it being said they didn't have to.

[Aquillion]

why. the. boop. does GK have a road around the walls? Who is the utterly booper that made a wide attacking site around perimeters walls?

Balance reasons. It would be an overpowered defensive position without that.

This is Erfworld, remember?

[Arkenputtyknife]

Even if GK takes up multiple hexes, which I believe it has been stated to do so…

It hasn't. Klog #11 says that it's made of four defensive zones, but that they're all part of the city and as such units can be moved between them without expending move, which strongly implies that the zones are subdivisions of a single hex.

[Laurentio II]

Balance reasons. It would be an overpowered defensive position without that.

This is Erfworld, remember?

How could do otherwise? But still, my brain hurts. As I told previously, I almost get myself kicked out of a theater during the Deep Helm's siege in Lord of the Rings. I was the one protesting. And I didn't read the book... people that did where moaning in desperation.

[Zolem]

How could do otherwise? But still, my brain hurts. As I told previously, I almost get myself kicked out of a theater during the Deep Helm's siege in Lord of the Rings. I was the one protesting. And I didn't read the book... people that did where moaning in desperation.

Realy? What where your problems with it, jsut out of curiosity?

[tribble]

An interesting tactic might be to use the foolamancer to veil units in the garrison, so that Ansom's ranged attackers would auto-engage the only non-allied units they see (the archons).

On the other hand, this would be very risky, and it would involve letting many tunnel units survive until they get another turn. I get the distinct impression this isn't part of Parson's plan (especially since he made this plan before Charlescomm showed up).

*BUZZER* Wrong! you can only veil units when you have a foolamancer in the same stack you're veiling, as stated in Page 64, and the Foolamancer is with Stanley.
Now, what I'm seeing here is that Parson is going to take a 3rd option, because he said "because he thinks I'm not going to do anything on My turn but dig in.Heh."
so we can conclude that Parson is not going to dig in, or at least thats not all he intends to do. Remember, this is the guy who on his First Turn playing the game smashed two fifths of the enemies siege machines AND set up a "Donut Of Death" directed at Ansom. the Donut failed, but that was not Parson's fault, as If Stanley hadn't recalled the Dwagons, Ansom, Vinnie, and Jilian would've been presenting reumes' for entrance into the City Of Heroes to the Titans.

[selgnij]

My thoughts went along these lines:

1) Some hit and run attacks in the tunnels, possibly with twolls to take advantage of their regeneration. Hit-retreat-heal-repeat. Nothing major, just enough to bring the warlords down there to the front/near the front. Rather than the hit and run attack they expect, Sizemore attacks with a full golem stack after collapsing the tunnel behind them to cut off retreat/help. Exit warlords, and a portion of the tunnels are retaken. Wande uncroaks the warlords, and Sizemore, the new warlords, the golems, and the gobwins, the tunnels become blocked off.

2) Wanda with the uncroacked airforce attacks the main force above ground, destroying more siege equipment, some towards the rear.

3) Parson sacrafices some units by sending them out to destroy the siege close to the gate.

Ansom's turn:

Ansome starts his attack above ground. (Tunnel forces are leaderless and facing a blocking stack) Eventually, he breaks the outer walls, but in doing so takes heavy loses to his siege equipment. (Parson pulls back all forces to the garrison as the walls go down.) Ansom's diminished siege forces cannot break the garrison walls, and Charlie is now facing a garrison packed with almost every unit in GK.

Summary: Tunnel forces left leaderless and facing a buffed stack of golems/ gobwins.

Ground forces control outer walls but are unable to breach the garrison.

Charlie is facing a garrison stronger than what he was prepared for, and there is the off chance that since Jetstone forces control the ground beneath them and they don't have a warlord available, they will be forced to attack. (Though they didn't automaticly engage GK on thier turn, so who knows on that one.)

[ObadiahtheSlim]

I'm thinking that Parson will hit the tunnels heavy. THis will make the coalition think that all the garrison is there. He then focuses all his units to taking the walls. But there's one problem. Nobody is there except the neutral archons. This means they will be forced to attack each other unless a leader is present. Heavy casualties on the coalition side while Paron has very few.