Dota anyone?

[Kizara]

You must be playing a castrated version of Tiny.

Avalanche deals it's full damage, twice, if you toss your target on itself during it. Tiny instagibs 900 HP heroes NP at level 9.

I thought they recoded it this version so you can't do that anymore?
To be fair I very rarely play Tiny, so I may be wrong and it still works.

[Poison_Fish]

I thought they recoded it this version so you can't do that anymore?
To be fair I very rarely play Tiny, so I may be wrong and it still works.

It's been recoded as far as I know, and I play tiny quite often. I've done it multiple times before and haven't noticed a difference in damage with 6.54b.

The worst I hate with tiny is his with his avalanche it's very easy to sometimes shoot over your target. It's much better to lead into them rather then aim close. Also, the animation is bigger then the actual AoE.

The new throw, however, is awesome. Since it's targeted much better. The big problem with it is I've found it buggy. As there are times I'm right next to someone and I keep trying to throw them up into the air, but it keeps telling me "No target for throwing". They need to fix that, <_<.

[LordVader]

Lasthitting with CM is a challange, but is doable with sufficient practice I can assure you. Although even if you are extremely good at it it's still a little bit frustrating getting outdone by heros with twice your animiation speed and base damage. One of the biggest challanges with CM is that unlike many support heros, she has no reliable way to farm.

For practice though, start up the game in single player, buy your normal starting items, and go lane. Do this to about level 11, and then restart and try again. Do this until you get most creeps. Should give you a basic skill for using her animation.


For SandK, yes you need blink. Buy it ASAP. To use, start epi, click the dagger and shift-click where you are blinking to. Thus, when your channeling is done you immediately blink over.

Finally, BKB is a good item for both heros. And is a solid item for most games, regardless of your hero.

I plan on doing that, practicing last hitting with SK too is going to be necessary I think because of the extreme farming you can do with Caustic Finale. I've also done the blink + epicenter combo a couple of times and am getting good with it, which is a relief; I wish I could do the same with CM, lol, Freezing Field is good but impossible to pull off due to the cast time and channeling; I always get stunned and epic fail. :\

[Poison_Fish]

I plan on doing that, practicing last hitting with SK too is going to be necessary I think because of the extreme farming you can do with Caustic Finale. I've also done the blink + epicenter combo a couple of times and am getting good with it, which is a relief; I wish I could do the same with CM, lol, Freezing Field is good but impossible to pull off due to the cast time and channeling; I always get stunned and epic fail. :\

That's why blink dagger + BKB can be a lot of fun with her.

[LordVader]

yeah, lol.

Does BKB stop stuns though? The thing that always screws me (especially with people like Earthshaker/Enigma) is that I get stunned and it fails hard.

[Douglas]

BKB stops the vast majority of spells, including most stuns. There are a number of abilities that ignore it, but most of them are ultimates, and not even all ultimates ignore BKB.

[Arang]

Played around with Pudge. Hooking really makes the guy fun to play. I actually cheered when I hooked Centaur (like five minutes of towerhugging before). He must be fantastic when you're laning against Agi food and nukers, especially since you're getting HoD anyways.

What's good to get on Troll, though? I tried him round but ended up against a farmed Clinkz who had like 700 DPS. I've heard Stygian is good?

[mathieumg]

Attack speed with troll is good so you can get permabash (in melee mode)

[LordVader]

Yeah, that one's crazy, I hate troll. In fact, I hate most carries as CM tends to fall over and die to them, I've found.

Pudge can be REALLY fun, if you want entertainment watch "best of pudge hooks" videos on youtube, the funniest ones are the ally saves; there is this one where a medusa's about to get ganked by 3 enemies, right by the first Scourge tower in the mid, and Pudge in the river below hooks her out with virtually no HP left and they run. Priceless.

But yeah, if you can land the hook, hook damage + rot + dismember seems to burn through most heroes real fast.

I'm also thinking about trying drow ranger/clinkz, is drow ranger decent? I know clinkz is, from being on the recieving end of far too many ganks.

[mathieumg]

Silencing/dooming/etc. a rotting pudge is always nice too :p

[Poison_Fish]

A friend of mine made a pudge video of hooks all from one game (where their team just couldn't figure out how to deal with him). Hilarity ensues: Linky

Drow can put out some hurt with her ult, and isn't a terrible carry, though isn't an amazing one either. Her frost arrows are decent, but she's very killable, making a lothars very necessary.

Perma-bash troll is easy, but you want to get some life steal and farm like a mad man first. I'm partial to a satanic, as having more health keeps you alive longer. In addition to it's activation effect being very nice.

[Arang]

Drow is amazing against noobs (at least she was when I as a noob played against other noobs), just by buffing your DPS you'll be able to take down pretty much everyone with Frost Arrows before they even get to you. Even if they're not so noob the orbwalking option is very nice to have. Like Poison_Fish said, though, get some survivability on her because she has like 500 hp at level 25.

For all the Pudge fans, I took the liberty of rehosting Bengal_Tigger's excellent Practice your Pudge map. Provides drills of regular hooks, combo hooks, blocked (moving and static) hooks, blind hooks etc.

[LordVader]

This is the video I was talking about, really funny. That other one was great too, watching Zeus ult for all the kills was hysterical.

I'm gonna try Drow out, yeah, so I guess I'll try Lothar's, it's not that expensive either and Drow seems like she can farm real well.

[Poison_Fish]

Drow is amazing against noobs (at least she was when I as a noob played against other noobs), just by buffing your DPS you'll be able to take down pretty much everyone with Frost Arrows before they even get to you. Even if they're not so noob the orbwalking option is very nice to have. Like Poison_Fish said, though, get some survivability on her because she has like 500 hp at level 25.

For all the Pudge fans, I took the liberty of rehosting Bengal_Tigger's excellent Practice your Pudge map. Provides drills of regular hooks, combo hooks, blocked (moving and static) hooks, blind hooks etc.

Honestly, I think the best thing against "noobs" played by other "noobs" is noobseeker. So many people don't seem to understand rupture.

[Artemician]

Honestly, I think the best thing against "noobs" played by other "noobs" is noobseeker. So many people don't seem to understand rupture.

To develop into the habit of relying on your opponents' stupidity isn't really a good way to improve, I find.

[Poison_Fish]

To develop into the habit of relying on your opponents' stupidity isn't really a good way to improve, I find.

Hence I call him noobseeker. I don't like playing with stupid opponents, honestly. It's why I enjoy inhouses. But I seem to have a curse in pubs. If I pick a carry type hero, the enemy team can't seem to deal with the gankers/they aren't that skilled, game ends. If I pick a ganking hero, however, I feel like I can play the game besides farming, <_<.

Also, I never play bloodseeker anyway. I'll admit, rupture has good uses when chasing or to force a team battle you know you can win (or get a free kill), as either the whole team stays to protect their friend, or they ditch them. But hoping to get kills on rupture alone isn't that good.

[Artemician]

Hence I call him noobseeker. I don't like playing with stupid opponents, honestly. It's why I enjoy inhouses. But I seem to have a curse in pubs. If I pick a carry type hero, the enemy team can't seem to deal with the gankers/they aren't that skilled, game ends. If I pick a ganking hero, however, I feel like I can play the game besides farming, <_<.

I find that in Pubs I just tend toward playing badly. I think it comes from relying on your teammates too much, you expect them to help you in a pinch/know what to do, when a lot of Pubbers don't. Which results in me feeding horribly.

Also, I never play bloodseeker anyway. I'll admit, rupture has good uses when chasing or to force a team battle you know you can win (or get a free kill), as either the whole team stays to protect their friend, or they ditch them. But hoping to get kills on rupture alone isn't that good.

Bloodseeker has one thing going for him: Bloodbath, and that's about it. He's pretty worthless in most situations you could name, and barely useful in the exceptions.

[Poison_Fish]

Your right about BS. His noob senses, while useful, he's still a brittle hero who can easily get counter ganked(A stun and a 2nd disable is usually enough to take him out between just two heroes, up until late game).

His silence, while short, can be useful to put on someone like ES. But again, very situational, and I'd prefer drow's silence(or even better then that, Puck/Silencer) over his.

In pubs, I tend not to rely upon my team mates much either. But early on, it's still possible to get decent kills as a single ganker (NA, Tiny, etc.) and hope your pubby carry heroes they all like to play get farmed up against the other pubby carry heroes.

There are some games thought that I find good opponents. However, I still find the most amusing thing to do is to juke anti-mage for about 3 minutes in the scourge forest.

[Douglas]

What's this about BS's silence being short? It's 15 seconds long at level 4, longer than any other silence in the game except Doom, I think, and it single-handedly turned a defeat into a victory once in an in-house game when I played him - and most of the players involved were anything but noobish.

Obsidian Destroyer was being a major pain for all of us, and suddenly he turned into food when none of his abilities worked in any team battle until the battle was already over.

That, plus the near-haste-rune speed when chasing low hp heroes got me multiple kills that would otherwise have escaped.

[Lighturtle]

Blood seeker is a good anti jungle, and that's pretty much it...

Let me dig up this... ah there.

Spoiler

Show

Edit: my bad.

[LordVader]

Ah, the immortal MSDOS Paint Dota Rage thread. Funny stuff.
You mind spoilering that? It's stretching the screen a lot.

Something that really irked me today was the entire enemy team waiting until we had all chosen and then all counterpicking (I, for example, was laned against Anti-Mage as Rylai (Crystal Maiden) until Lycan swapped with me) which, although we did own them in the end, with the host disconnecting (he was on the other team) was still really annoying.

[shadowxknight]

Blood seeker is a good anti jungle, and that's pretty much it...

Let me dig up this... ah there.

If that's Terrorblade, that BS would've been screwed

[Artemician]

Bloodrage works in the small minority of cases in team battles, where you plop it on the Int carry/AoE spammer to reduce his effectiveness. Of course, the AoE spammer won't show his head until the clash has started, or a dedicated initiator will stun everyone and let his teammates get the spells off. Bloodraging a Lina who has all spells on cooldown is pretty counterintuitive. This leaves the usage of Bloodrage to be confined to Int Carries ala Silencer/OD, and extremely situational uses when you don't want someone to cast spells.

I've never been a fan of Thirst, because Clinkz and Slardar are just as good at chasing with their skills without being squishy melee heroes.

The thing about BS, is that you *have* to own, or you'll feed. There is no middle ground. If you're owning Bloodbath becomes super sick, and Bloodrage becomes more generally applicable because even if they have +80& damage, people wouldn't want to engage you anyway. But if you're not owning, people just laugh, turn around, stun you and then TP off.

[Cynan Machae]

Lol, that looks like a pic from the MS Paint Rage Thread

If that's Terrorblade, that BS would've been screwed

Well yea, except if the BS use Bloodrage first :P But yea, I guess one of the uses of BS "can" be to help gank vs jungling heroes like TB. But an intelligenent TB would play carefullly agaisnt a BS anyway.

[Kizara]

But if you're not owning, people just laugh, turn around, stun you and then rape your face.

Fixed it for you.

[LordVader]

Hmmm, SDd Clinkz today and not aggroing creeps with manual triggering of Searing Arrows is hysterical. I had harassed Obsidian Destroyer to half HP the whole time, even though he was two levels above me and Noobseeker laning with me never did anything.

This has definitely convinced me to try Drow.

[Poison_Fish]

Hmmm, SDd Clinkz today and not aggroing creeps with manual triggering of Searing Arrows is hysterical. I had harassed Obsidian Destroyer to half HP the whole time, even though he was two levels above me and Noobseeker laning with me never did anything.

This has definitely convinced me to try Drow.

If you want to try out orb walking, may I introduce you to silencer and viper. They tend to be the most fun with orb walking.

[LordVader]

I also want to try someone who relies more on DPS and thus can survive in the late game; Rylai doesn't do well at all in the later levels.

I'll probably try Drow, and Silencer looks fun too; be great having global wars with Zeus.

[Poison_Fish]

I also want to try someone who relies more on DPS and thus can survive in the late game; Rylai doesn't do well at all in the later levels.

I'll probably try Drow, and Silencer looks fun too; be great having global wars with Zeus.

Out of those three, viper may be your best bet. He's good at surviving very well because of his passive skin.

[Kizara]

Out of the 3 orbers (drow, viper, sil):

Drow: A pretty technical hero to play well, as landing (and timing) silences isn't as easy as you think but is a huge part of playing the hero well. Her lvl 1 orb is certinally fun but isn't as deadly as the other two. She does a better job in a dual lane then the other two, and isn't as strong of a solo.

Early: Good but not great. 6/10

Mid: Sub-par, should mainly be farming. 4/10

Late: Good but not exceptional. 7/10


Viper: A strong and fairly straightforward hero to play. Your orb allows you to catch people as you chase, making him one of the most intuitive orbwalkers. It's also a very strong harass tool. One of the strongest solos in the game, but is only moderate as a dual-laner.

Early: Very strong. 9/10

Mid: Still very strong, really good ganking ability and chaser. Suffers a bit in 5v5 fights if the game goes that way. 8/10

Late: A bit weak. If you did well early and late your frenzy and being an agility hero allows you to have a decent carry potential, but you are far from a main carry. You also shouldn't spend much time farming. 5.5/10


Sil: A fairly simple hero to play, with an ult that takes quite a bit of intuition, experience and map sense to use properly. A very strong orb gives him a good, if not amazing solo. Brings little beyond his exceptional lasthit ability to a dual-lane.

Early: Moderately strong. 5/10

Mid: Poor. No ganking ability, no good escape/defense skills beyond ult. Ult pretty useful in 5v5 fights if you can hit it at the right time. 3/10 (trying not to feed mid-game as sil in a competitive game is HARD, trust me.)

Late: Very strong. Your orb gives you a powerful carry ability and your ult is still really great for team fights. Lacking the supreme carry ability of heros like tb, dk or luna, you still are a massive late dps threat. 8.5/10