Will Webinar and his girlfriend survive?

[Lamech]

There is no obvious underground trap to Ansom. It's obvious to us, but we have the advantage of seeing what Parson is doing behind the scenes.

Does Ansom know he faces a dirtomancer? From Sizemore's surprise at what combat is like, I think Stanley has not used Sizemore in combat. Even if Ansom knows about Sizemore, does Ansom think a dirtomancer will even be effective in combat? Stanley clearly thinks not.

Ansom has a vast numerical advantage. Attacking everywhere at once in overwhelming force is Ansom's strategy. Committing massive forces through the tunnels is part of that plan, and he selected his best tunnel troops for that task, albeit not his best warlord. But it's a good strategy that would normalyy win. Parson beat Ansom to the punch and is attacking first in the tunnels. Parson's plan will succeed because of a game exploit that we don't fully understand yet.

Losing a won position, or being battled to draw, because of a previously unknown game exploit is far from "committing your forces to an obvious trap". Ansom is a competent if unimaginative general, who is letting massive force superiority lull him to sleep. And he's facing a gaming genius with his back to the wall in Parson.

Of course Ansom knows that Stanley has a dirtomancer, he encountered golems. So unless, all evidence to the contrary, those golems are not dirtomancer made, a dirtomancer is a given. Ansom made a dumb mistake, he made it so he lost his main advantage, numbers, tossed away powerful non-tunnel heavies, and played to Parson's strengths, gobwins and dirtomancy. The fact that he didn't consider Parson using magic in a deadly way, is a major mistake; and the mistake is made bigger by the fact deadly and powerful magic wiped out the air-force.

He is largely a seen by every one, including us as rigid and obsessed with rules and honor in ways most readers can’t relate to. The kind of character most people like seeing knocked down a peg or three. As such having him die immediately wont present much in the way of an emotional impact for us readers, most will either cheer his death or think that he deserved his end.

I see Webinar as a talented, insightful, and highly loyal Jetstone unit. He may be overly nationalistic (tribalistic?). He is a very good commander, and soilder. Let us count his succeses...
1) Not trusting the semi-mind controlled Jillian, and a bad leader anyway.
2) Realizing the walls were the correct location to attack.
3) Saving his whole stack, from firery death.
4) And last and most certainly least. Saving 15% or more on thinkagrams

[dr pepper]

Think zerglings versus protoss.

Clue please?

[Kish]

Starcraft.

[selgnij]

Clue please?

Like Kish said, it refers to Starcraft. The zerg are the race with cheap but weak units. So a prevelent strategy is to basically overwhelm their opponents through sheer force of numbers. The protoss are the opposite, having strong units that cost a lot to make. That means a poorly thought out protoss defense gets overwhelmed, because even though they have better units, they are badly outnumbered.

Of course a well thought out defense can hold back the zerg rush, at least for a while.

[Moechi_Vill]

I see Webinar as a talented, insightful, and highly loyal Jetstone unit. He may be overly nationalistic (tribalistic?). He is a very good commander, and soilder. Let us count his succeses...
1) Not trusting the semi-mind controlled Jillian, and a bad leader anyway.
2) Realizing the walls were the correct location to attack.
3) Saving his whole stack, from firery death.
4) And last and most certainly least. Saving 15% or more on thinkagrams

Certainly. I'd have him a Lieutenant General (division or higher) any day, or at least Colonel (brigade).
I don't agree completely that nr. 4 is certainly the least. In context to the current fight you are correct, but I can figure putting him in command of rich borderland region to administer during peacetime would be sterling. Ansom's father might find himself in need of a vastly revamped strategy soon, and liquid resources often suit those needs better.

He's not fantastic, but you're fortunate if the bulk of your leadership corps consists of competent nationalists like Webinar.
His only major flaw is temper. I'd notch down his tendency to judge, but since he's fairly perceptive this would be a bonus and not a flaw if not for his temper.

[CaptC]

Of course a well thought out defense can hold back the zerg rush, at least for a while.

Yeah. The biggest problem for a zerger is knowing when you've got enough zerglings. Your troops are generally only good at one thing (running fast and swarming) so your options are basically limited to "attack!" and "run away!" A horde army commander usually doesn't have clever tactics available if something unexpected happens.

That's what's happening in the tunnels. Webinar would normally have more than sufficient zerglings, but he's getting hit with unexpected traps and a dirtomancer in direct combat, and he's operating in a limited area that will make it difficult to bring his superior numbers to bear.

[Lamech]

Yeah. The biggest problem for a zerger is knowing when you've got enough zerglings. Your troops are generally only good at one thing (running fast and swarming) so your options are basically limited to "attack!" and "run away!" A horde army commander usually doesn't have clever tactics available if something unexpected happens.

That's what's happening in the tunnels. Webinar would normally have more than sufficient zerglings, but he's getting hit with unexpected traps and a dirtomancer in direct combat, and he's operating in a limited area that will make it difficult to bring his superior numbers to bear.

You never have enough zerglings to overwhelm a good defense. Terran firebats will stomp lings easy, especially if they are defensed-matrixed. A couple of archons can kill 5 lings in a single shot, templars can take out swarms of them, and reavers are pretty nice too. Throw arbiters in and there are instant choke points. The only things lings are good for are early rushes and trying to hit some place with bad defenses. Just running in and swarming will probably get you a whole lot of nothing, and defilers by the way are an absolute nessecity, especially vs. terran.

I Webinar's case its like running a swarm of lings into some well used templar, and archons. Even though his numbers may seem insane he will get stomped.

[Richbin]

My two pennies - Dora is cruched, and Webinar, following his pattern so far, becomes enraged, and either hurts or kills Sizemore.
He ends up being captured (I would hope), and used as a bargaining chip against Ansom.

[MReav]

I think at least Webinar is going to survive, if only so he can eventually take on Jillian (And lose)

Of course, the perfect irony?

Spoiler

Show

Parson has Webinar mind-fragged and then sends him against the coalition, and faces off vs Jillian.

[Richbin]

Or even more 'ruthless' - Kill Webinar once he is captured, simply to have an uncroaked Webinar deliver a message with the Alliances' Surrender terms before their booped behinds get handed to them...
:)

[Daran]

Noooooooooo...
Webinar .. Dora!
That was so cruel --- but it shows that war always brings losses one at least one side ... and again that war always is cruel ...

[Zolem]

And now the topic is "Who thinks they'll be uncoraked?"

[SteveMB]

And now the topic is "Who thinks they'll be uncroaked?"

[The Old Hack]

Grats on the new forum title, Steve.

[fehler]

Can't wait to see Ansom take the Arkenpliers to an uncraoked Webinar. Oh, the tear in his eye that will hang as he pops it shut.

[Krelon]

Can't wait to see Ansom take the Arkenpliers to an uncraoked Webinar. Oh, the tear in his eye that will hang as he pops it shut.

Honestly I'd like to see that too but It remains to be seen if you can uncroak enemy warlords. I had the impression that the ones Stanley had recycled were his own in the beginning.

[MReav]

Honestly I'd like to see that too but It remains to be seen if you can uncroak enemy warlords. I had the impression that the ones Stanley had recycled were his own in the beginning.

They probably were, but Uncroaked units are said to decay. Given that Stanley hasn't won a battle since he started questing for the Arkentools, assuming he had any uncroaked enemy warlords, they might have rotted through.

[SteveMB]

Honestly I'd like to see that too but It remains to be seen if you can uncroak enemy warlords.

It seems likely, since it's been established that you can uncroak warlords and that you can uncroak enemy units (and have them under your control).

[Krelon]

You can uncroak warlords .. check.
You can uncroak enemy units ... check.

But, for the sake of game balance wouldn't it be too powerful to uncroak enemy leadership? I could see it if the warlords became rank and file units. Good enough to have Ansom shed some tears about dusting Webinar the uncroaked piker or fly into (self)righteous frenzy.

[SteveMB]

You can uncroak warlords .. check.
You can uncroak enemy units ... check.

But, for the sake of game balance wouldn't it be too powerful to uncroak enemy leadership?

How so? You'd need to croak an enemy warlord first, and that isn't easy (apparently you have to fight your way through the rest of his stack first). And, obviously, you need a Croakamancer, and casters seem to be fairly rare (and probably expensive or otherwise limited in availability).

[Krelon]

How so? You'd need to croak an enemy warlord first, and that isn't easy (apparently you have to fight your way through the rest of his stack first). And, obviously, you need a Croakamancer, and casters seem to be fairly rare (and probably expensive or otherwise limited in availability).

Easily so. Once you have wiped out a stack together with a warlord you can start creating uncroaked inf which will be probably weaker than the original and you can add it to your troops which is already a great benefit. Now if you can also turn the warlords you could create a complete new army leadership+troops from your fallen foes and double/triple your army strength while the enemy loses numbers. Since warlords seem to be a valuable resource it appears pretty unbalanced to me. For me it would make more sense if you could uncroak only your own warlords and that only temporarily and only once until they are dusted or decay on their own. Still pretty powerful.

[teratorn]

Now if you can also turn the warlords you could create a complete new army leadership+troops from your fallen foes and double/triple your army strength while the enemy loses numbers.

Not really. They'll disappear at the start of the enemy's next turn. You only have one turn to move the enemy units or to move the caster there. To use it for battles far from GK then you need to have the caster within reach of the battle site, meaning it is risky.

[Lamech]

Not really. They'll disappear at the start of the enemy's next turn. You only have one turn to move the enemy units or to move the caster there. To use it for battles far from GK then you need to have the caster within reach of the battle site, meaning it is risky.

Not quite actually the corspes don't go *poof* if they get moved. So one would have to win the battle and bring the corspe back, but it could be more than a turn. Of course, carrying corspes around would create logistic problems, so it wouldn't be easy, especially for huge armies of infantry. Warlords on the other hand, a dwagon would do. I'm not sure what "moving" means exactly it could be at least one hex. It could be carried around in the hex a little. Maybe between city zones work.

[Krelon]

Not really. They'll disappear at the start of the enemy's next turn. You only have one turn to move the enemy units or to move the caster there. To use it for battles far from GK then you need to have the caster within reach of the battle site, meaning it is risky.

It might be risky but it is still overpowered. Risks can be minimized. After the decisive battle move a caster on a fast mount to the position were your whole army can defending him/her and all the corpses in the hexes where the battle took place are yours.

Beat one kingdom, convert most of its units to uncroaked.. go for the next. It might be ok if what all you get is a weaker version of the original troops and some decay but warlords on top of that seems just too much for me.

[SteveMB]

Beat one kingdom, convert most of its units to uncroaked.. go for the next. It might be ok if what all you get is a weaker version of the original troops and some decay but warlords on top of that seems just too much for me.

Also, it seems likely that, just as Sizemore has only so much power to keep healing golems and Maggie only has so much power to send Thinkagrams, Wanda can only animate so many uncroaked during a turn. It may be that uncroaking a more powerful unit or a unit that retains special abilities (like a warlord) uses up more of the limited supply of casting ability.

[The Old Hack]

Also, it seems likely that, just as Sizemore has only so much power to keep healing golems and Maggie only has so much power to send Thinkagrams, Wanda can only animate so many uncroaked during a turn. It may be that uncroaking a more powerful unit or a unit that retains special abilities (like a warlord) uses up more of the limited supply of casting ability.

Hmmm. I wonder how the Arkenpliers play into that? All we know about them is that they turn Uncroaked to dust, but is this because they are baneful for Croakamancy or because they draw and feed on Croakamancy? It would be interesting if it turned out to be the latter...

[Krelon]

Also, it seems likely that, just as Sizemore has only so much power to keep healing golems and Maggie only has so much power to send Thinkagrams, Wanda can only animate so many uncroaked during a turn. It may be that uncroaking a more powerful unit or a unit that retains special abilities (like a warlord) uses up more of the limited supply of casting ability.

I see .. you have (for example) 100 conversion points:
uncroaked inf: 1
uncroaked archon : 30-50
warlord: 50+ depending on abilities
(all numbers are just exemplary numbers without any claim to be true)

That would make sense. Add the uncroaked warlord decay (like ensign Toast and the others suffered from) and it keeps things balanced.

If it is indeed so I do not see much hope for Webinar and Dora to raise as warlords, what Parson needs now are big numbers not weak warlords (since he has a great bonus now and Wanda gives hers to uncroaked in addition to that). They could be raised as rank and file units though.

@ OldHack:
... yeah the Arkenpliers, they do sound like a power multiplier, they could even make Liches (uncroaked casters that retain casting abilities) and Revenants (better than life warlords) possible.

[MattR]

In response to the title of this thread i just have to say: 'computer says no.'

[MattR]

Maybe corpses inside a city hex dont poof.. thats why they say the corpse needs to be moved, i.e. away from the battle site.

This might explain why there were corpses still visible in the tunnels.... they were just dumped there after previous engagements waiting for Wanda to uncroak when she has the energy for it.

[Zolem]

Maybe corpses inside a city hex dont poof.. thats why they say the corpse needs to be moved, i.e. away from the battle site.

This might explain why there were corpses still visible in the tunnels.... they were just dumped there after previous engagements waiting for Wanda to uncroak when she has the energy for it.

...that makes sense actually.