122 The Battle for Gobwin Knob, Page 110

[HOLEkevin]

OK, we've established there are forces apparently ahead and behind Stanley's moving stack.

My question is, how in the world did a stack rise up behind him without him needing to fight his way through it?

Did Stanley's group approach along the base of a T intersection, with groups on either edge of the T?

Can groups set a "contingent move" to rise up and block after something else moves past it on its own turn?

Was Stanley's stack effectively veiled by the Foolamancer, defeating the first six pairs of warlord eyes?

Or (and I think this is most likely) has the Foolamancer turned the stack around and is the group in front of them an illusion?

I simply had the impression that Stanley was winging along in the middle of a group of his own flyers. (The Transylvitians.) There were therefore, his own units in front and behind — and probably to the sides too. Then, they turned a corner in the canyon, and saw a new bunch of enemies (who we think might be illusory) flying towards them.

[MReav]

Spoiler

Show

Stanley's going to get croaked, but just before he croaks, he's going to use the schmuckers he saved on the casting and support plan to designate an heir... probably Sizemore.

Me? I think:

Spoiler

Show

Wanda.

[Treadstone]

Hmm. My first thoughts were 'the dwagons are turning around temporarily to let the slower ones catch up, then they attack in full force.'

However it seems possible that Jack understood Parson's message, and is now attempting to trick Tool into returning to Gobwin Knob.

[Richbin]

Stanly will not 'designate' anyone his heir, as he does not beleive he can lose - he is on a holy mission, and until someone recognizes that crusade-like zeal and mirrors it, he will not hand that over.
He cannot.
It would be a betraal against type.

He is a tender sentimentalist as well - I like that about him.
He is apologizing to Jack, genuinely accepting the blame.
Wow.

[headhoncho]

I simply had the impression that Stanley was winging along in the middle of a group of his own flyers. (The Transylvitians.) There were therefore, his own units in front and behind — and probably to the sides too. Then, they turned a corner in the canyon, and saw a new bunch of enemies (who we think might be illusory) flying towards them.

Sorry, not sure I understand the above. How are the Transylvitians Stanley's own flyers?

Also, it's GK's turn, so unless there's a mechanism for "contingent moves" or something, the enemy stack can't be flying toward them.

Stanly will not 'designate' anyone his heir, as he does not beleive he can lose - he is on a holy mission, and until someone recognizes that crusade-like zeal and mirrors it, he will not hand that over.

He is betraying the thought that he could lose in this very strip, when he beseeches the Foolamancer to snap back into it because he will need the veil to protect FAQ soon. He is pretty clearly considering the unpalatable alternatives, if the Foolamancer doesn't snap back into it (i.e. FAQ will ultimately be found and squashed by the RCC).

[Eco-Mono]

I like Jack's break-the-fourth-wall moment in panel 3.

[reignofevil]

Something just occured to me.
Stanley ordered him to cast a veil.
Next two panels? Veil cast.

[Lamech]

I really think the battle is already over, dwagons have this annoying tendency to one hit warlords, with much smaller bonuses than what they have right now. This fight will be very short... and in the last strip panel four or five is happened at the same time as panel of of this strip; combine that with the gobwins having enough time to walk down the stairs and have a fight. Its over and done, GK didn't go neutral, so Stanley lives.

P.S. "But we might not make it y'see?" Stanley is giving up on his, I'm gaurented to win deal-io. Character development ahoy!

[SteveMB]

Also, it's GK's turn, so unless there's a mechanism for "contingent moves" or something, the enemy stack can't be flying toward them.

Sure they can -- The off-turn side is shown moving normally within the local battlefield all the time. They just can't pursue him if he leaves the hex (either because he actually punches through or because he's tricked by Jack into going the wrong way.

He is betraying the thought that he could lose in this very strip, when he beseeches the Foolamancer to snap back into it because he will need the veil to protect FAQ soon. He is pretty clearly considering the unpalatable alternatives, if the Foolamancer doesn't snap back into it (i.e. FAQ will ultimately be found and squashed by the RCC).

Actually, it sounds like he's saying they might not make it to Faq without a veil -- apparently his plan was to sneak past any enemies he encountered along the way.

Something just occured to me.
Stanley ordered him to cast a veil.
Next two panels? Veil cast.

Hmmm... taken by themselves, panels 10 and 11 could be the before and after pictures of sneaking through the enemy under veil, but that doesn't really fit Stanley's "We're punching through!" order in the final panel.

[Ragn Charran]

tl;dr summary: I don't think Jack cast an illusion to divert Stanley. I do think he can help the battle somehow (mirror images, etc. as already suggested) as Stanley pushes through to FAQ.
___

I have to disagree with almost everyone here. I see no evidence that Jack cast an illusion or Stanley is turning around.

1. We know units in a hex are invisible to units out of the hex (hence why Vinnie needed to waste bats on the Dragon Donut). Therefore, the sudden appearance of the Transylvito warlords does not require any sort of movement, veil, or ambush capability. Stanley entered their hex, there they are. The only questionable point is how they surrounded Stanley, but there's nothing indicating he can't choose to withdraw - note that he is choosing to punch through, suggesting there is an alternative (beyond surrender, which we know Stanley would never do). Note also that the bats were quite obviously "ambushed" by the dragons when exploring the donut - they flew in, then the dragons popped out of hiding and the unled bats couldn't withdraw - so I think it's reasonable to say it's dramatic positioning only.

2. Frames 10 and 11 are a wide angle showing both ends of the valley. Jillian is at one end, and the Transylvito warlords are spread out. They do not show Stanley turning around.

3. About the 12 Transylvito warlord count. Remember that the original plan was Vinnie, plus 10 others. Caesar specifically says he came out personally because of Charlie's change in plans. I think it's fair to assume he's a twelfth warlord added by the Don to try and improve the stacks - maybe chief warlords apply their bonuses to any hex they're in, we think it's the capital but Parson never leaves his.

4. I agree that Jack is now mostly sane, but given that Stanley is distracted (always looking down or back at Jack) it makes sense that Jack just saw the units first and was pointing them out. It's even possible that as a foolamancer he has a bonus to spot checks. He's shocked in frame eight, then points them out in frame 9, and looks downright bloodthristy when Stanley decides to charge.

[headhoncho]

Sure they can -- The off-turn side is shown moving normally within the local battlefield all the time. They just can't pursue him if he leaves the hex (either because he actually punches through or because he's tricked by Jack into going the wrong way.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to normal "background" type movement, I meant anything that would be actual "tactical movement" from hex-to-hex.

Actually, it sounds like he's saying they might not make it to Faq without a veil -- apparently his plan was to sneak past any enemies he encountered along the way.

He's got a pretty strong aerial group, so I definitely have the impression that he's more concerned about being spotted once he arrives.

Although now that you mention it, if he crushes a group, then the RCC will definitely know something's up, anyway...

4. I agree that Jack is now mostly sane, but given that Stanley is distracted (always looking down or back at Jack) it makes sense that Jack just saw the units first and was pointing them out. It's even possible that as a foolamancer he has a bonus to spot checks. He's shocked in frame eight, then points them out in frame 9, and looks downright bloodthristy when Stanley decides to charge.

One reason I think this is an illusion is Frame 9. The Foolamancer is REALLY intent, and he's murmuring straight into Stanley's ear, saying, "See what I see." And Stanley looks flummoxed.

[Richbin]

I am convinced that Stanley knows his plan might not succeed, but not that might get croaked. there is a huge difeference.. I actually sensewd he was more worried about Jack & Co. than himself.
IMHO, but YMMV

[reignofevil]

Hmmm... taken by themselves, panels 10 and 11 could be the before and after pictures of sneaking through the enemy under veil, but that doesn't really fit Stanley's "We're punching through!" order in the final panel.

I was talking about a veil was cast. Stanley didnt specify what KIND of veil. So its possible the fake enemy units (if they ARE fake) is not a betrayal, or Jack trying to protect stanley, but him fulfilling Stanley's orders. Just not in the way he wants.

[Name Lips]

The Foolamancer is on the loose. Jami says that we're supposed to interpret the panels as depicting Transylvito forces ahead and behind, and Stanly & Co. in the middle.

But the Foolamancer is back... and we know he's capable of hiding a kingdom of 3 cities from detection. I also think some sort of a veil or distraction has been cast.

But if we could tell what it was, it wouldn't be much of an illusion, would it? I get the feeling we're about to be surprised.

IMO, the best possible veil right now would be to wait for the battle to start and then make the dwagons look like Transyvito units, and half of each squad of Transyvito units look like dwagons. Even with individual illusions being seen through by individual Transylvito units, how can they possibly communicate that information to each other when everybody is seeing different things?

[slayerx]

One thing I noticed is that panels 10 & 11 appear to have six Transylvito warlords each. Now I ain't a Mathamancer, but I'm pretty sure that two times six is more than eleven (Vinny plus the ten sent by Don King)....

EDIT: The ninjas strike quickly....

Incorrect, their are only 11 Transylvito warlords... panel 11 has 6, and panel 10 has 5... one warlord in the middle of panel 10 is jillian on her gwiffen

Most likely the 6 behind were hiding on the mountina and move in for an ambush after Stanely passed by... the warlords in in front were also hiding and jump out to block his way

[edit] miscounted, their are 12

[fractal]

The Foolamancer is on the loose. Jami says that we're supposed to interpret the panels as depicting Transylvito forces ahead and behind, and Stanly & Co. in the middle.

Since units can move within a single hex on anyone's turn, I think it's reasonable that the Transylvito forces could have prepared an ambush to surround Stanley once he entered the chokepoint hex. Also, gwiffons only appear to be present on one side, which damages the veil theory (if Jami hasn't already killed it).

IMO, the best possible veil right now would be to wait for the battle to start and then make the dwagons look like Transyvito units, and half of each squad of Transyvito units look like dwagons. Even with individual illusions being seen through by individual Transylvito units, how can they possibly communicate that information to each other when everybody is seeing different things?

If a Foolamancer can veil enemy units in a combat situation, then wouldn't the right strategy be to switch everyone's appearance and then just tell his own team about it? That would ideally result in everyone fighting Transylvito units.

[fendrin]

Since units can move within a single hex on anyone's turn, I think it's reasonable that the Transylvito forces could have prepared an ambush to surround Stanley once he entered the chokepoint hex. Also, gwiffons only appear to be present on one side, which damages the veil theory (if Jami hasn't already killed it).

Jami killed the idea that panels 10 & 11 were a before and after of turning around. The fact that there are only gwiffons on one side reinforces that.

However, just because panels 10 & 11 don't represent them turning around doesn't mean it hasn't happened at all.

Also, neither point explains the fact that in panel 9 the gwiffons are behind Stanley and in panel 10 they are in front. There are only two reasons that could happen:

1. Stanley turned around
2. Jack is cast a spell (whether a veil or a distraction is not clear).

If a Foolamancer can veil enemy units in a combat situation, then wouldn't the right strategy be to switch everyone's appearance and then just tell his own team about it? That would ideally result in everyone fighting Transylvito units.

Jillian remarks that she would have loved to have taken Jack on missions with her... foreshadowing us seeing Jack in combat.

[tribble]

I like this, Stanley just became much more human in my sight. really, all I see here is Stanley petting the dog, and then jack points out the Transylvito units. I'm looking forward to seeing Stanley "Throw down" with the Transylitians, myself. finally we get to see some Arken-Bashing!

[Kanthalion]

If I didn't know any better I'd swear The Tool was showing some remorse for Jack's mental state.

[fendrin]

I posted this to the demotivator thread, but I thought it was somewhat relevant here, too.

Notice how well the image fits with new text I put in. If that's not scheming manipulation at work, I don't know what is.

All I can say is great job Jami, fitting strong body language to text that does not necessarily imply it.

[Jeivar]

Wow, Stanley actually almost took responsibility for something for once. But only almost. And that's why he's a villain, no matter how flawed his enemies might be.

THEORY: Jack actually has his wits back (somewhat) and is throwing up an illusionary ambush to derail Stanley from the real one.

Does anyone have an idea what Jack means by "The medium is the mess"? Maybe that he can THINK just fine, it's just articulation he's having problems with?

[Belphegor]

Pretty possible. We saw that thinkamancy has all kinds of weird backlashes (like Wanda's for instance). I would probably bet that it was just a side effect of broken mental link.

I wonder if Stanley didn't destroyed FAQ deliberately is there any chance of reasoning with Jillian.

[fendrin]

Does anyone have an idea what Jack means by "The medium is the mess"? Maybe that he can THINK just fine, it's just articulation he's having problems with?

As someone else noted it seems to be a play on the phrase "The medium is the message".

As for what Jack means by it, I think that may be correct, but he more liekly has some overt meaning behind his words. Everything else ahs been rather pointed, so why wouldn't this be?

Let's break it down:
What is Jack's medium? He could be referring to his spoken words, but I have a hunch he is referring to his 'artistic' medium, foolamancy.

What is the mess? The way he is speaking, perhaps, but also perhaps he is stating that he is about to 'mess' with perception via foolamancy?

[Lamech]

However, just because panels 10 & 11 don't represent them turning around doesn't mean it hasn't happened at all.

Also, neither point explains the fact that in panel 9 the gwiffons are behind Stanley and in panel 10 they are in front. There are only two reasons that could happen:
Stanley turned around
Jack is cast a spell (whether a veil or a distraction is not clear).

Those indestinct blobs in panel 9 are warlords, not gwiffions. The paler part on top, and the darker portion on the bottom are distinctive of warlords. And only two of them even have that yellowish tint, and I think it looks more off white. The blurrering makes it look confusing, and blends colors, and a couple warlords have white shirts. If you zoom in the yellow disappears completely by the way.

P.S.Hmm... I count four peeps here, and only three in panel ten. Perhaps six warlords in back and one peep, with a warlord hidden in panel nine, and a peep behind the dwagon wing in 11. If thats the case there are twelve warlords and one was off camera, the first time we saw them. Meh... if its important it will be made clear soon.

[fractal]

Here's another possibility, perhaps not likely, but no one has mentioned it. Even if we assume that the 6 Transylvito warlords plus Jillian are in front, and there are 6 more warlords behind, that doesn't mean that Stanley sees them. Our third person viewpoint might be completely different from Stanley's if he and/or the units are now under a veil. We don't actually know what he thinks he is about to "punch through".

Actually, it seems unlikely that there are 12 Transylvito warlords, given that Vinny already announced "eleven pairs of warlord eyes". And that has to be not counting Jillian (who may not be trustworthy). So it's not clear what all of those dark figures represent.

[Bongos]

Finally some payback!

They got the leadership bonus from Stanley the Tool, the artifact bonus from the hammer, a bunch of dwagons and the knight and it's their turn, with a warlord they can pick their targets and not get hung up by bats.

They are going to punch right through the warlords at the end of the pass, that way they aren't surrounded...

...and now that it looks like Jack is back (.........so are we gearing up for the Jack Nicholson Shining "Im back" moment or what?) he casts a veil or some other illusion, so the Transylvito crew can't find him when it's their turn.

[fendrin]

Those indestinct blobs in panel 9 are warlords, not gwiffions. The paler part on top, and the darker portion on the bottom are distinctive of warlords. And only two of them even have that yellowish tint, and I think it looks more off white. The blurrering makes it look confusing, and blends colors, and a couple warlords have white shirts. If you zoom in the yellow disappears completely by the way.

In Vinny's words: Ehh, I dunno...

I zoomed in and the yellow does largely disappear, however, in panels 10 & 11 all of the warlords have dark bodies and light heads, so why would two of them be wearing a light color in panel 9?

I mean we do see Cesare Borgata and the guy behind him in white shirts here.

So It's possible... but you haven't convinced me.

P.S.Hmm... I count four peeps here, and only three in panel ten. Perhaps six warlords in back and one peep, with a warlord hidden in panel nine, and a peep behind the dwagon wing in 11. If thats the case there are twelve warlords and one was off camera, the first time we saw them. Meh... if its important it will be made clear soon.

You know, it just occurred to me. Transylvito's strategy is obviously to maximize the warlord bonus by having (expensive) warlords with a lot of cheap units (bats) that get buffed by the warlords.

So what can a bat with a significant leadership bonus do? A swarm of them might be able to take down a dwagon...

[Bongos]

Obviously gwiffons ahead..

As far as warlords in front and behind, I think this pass is not straight but has turns..like a maze, only one path leads to FAQ though...

Stanley goes comes to an intersection and turns left, warlords in front , and warlords behind now.

We know Stanley can't make it to FAQ because he uses the explains his plans trope, so whats going to happen?

[Doctor Zuber]

Stanley and his dragons are tough in a fight though. With Charlie sitting this one out, transylvito may well have underestimated what they need to take down Stanley here.

[Gamebird]

As someone else noted it seems to be a play on the phrase "The medium is the message".

As for what Jack means by it, I think that may be correct, but he more liekly has some overt meaning behind his words. Everything else ahs been rather pointed, so why wouldn't this be?

Let's break it down:
What is Jack's medium? He could be referring to his spoken words, but I have a hunch he is referring to his 'artistic' medium, foolamancy.

What is the mess? The way he is speaking, perhaps, but also perhaps he is stating that he is about to 'mess' with perception via foolamancy?

It is just as pointed as all the other comments if you assume that the "medium" (ie, spiritual advisor, person just engaged in a Thinkagram, etc.) is Jack and the mess is the way he's been acting lately.