Five Player CYOR (Werewolf)

[Emperor Demonking]

Normal gamre with one twist.

Pick one role out of Seer, Baner, Wolf or Townie. PM it to me. Unless I get no wolf players, that's your role. If I don't get a wolf, a random seer will become a wolf.

[Reinholdt]

WW game? In.

[TFT]

This should be fun... in.

[Jontom Xire]

In.

blah blah blah

[Recaiden]

In, This is strange.

[Selrahc]

In. Mooble skush.

[Emperor Demonking]

I've got five players, PM me your roles.

[Emperor Demonking]

Wolves; Win when the town is dead.
Townies; Win when the wolves are dead.

Day Begins

[Selrahc]

Well if no one else wants to say anything, I guess I'll start.

My guess is that "Townies" are masons.. because otherwise the role seems very underwhelming. It still seems pretty underwhelming.

I picked baner. How about the rest of you?

Also: The random first day lynch picker says: Mr X (Jontom)

[Jontom Xire]

You should know me better than that Selrahc.

Basically we're looking for someone who would voluntarily choose a wolf role. I think Reinholdt fits that bill best.

[Recaiden]

I agree that Reinholdt is more suspicious. Jonton would know that he is well known enough to be suspected immediately by both sides.
It's bold. deal with it

[Reinholdt]

Well Jontom Xire since my neck is on the line. Wouldn't he choose wolf so he wouldn't be night killed as he tends to be?

[TFT]

Now, we have 2 players who are very well known here. We have reinholdt who someone claimed would probably pick a wolf, which is in and of itself a decent arguement. However, we have Jontom Xire, who not only is known, but is known for being killed on night one. So we can assume he either went baner, in order to protect himself, or wolf, in order to not be killed night one. I honestly wouldn't think reinholdt would pick it, considering people would think it, as was claimed. So, I vote for Jontom

[Jontom Xire]

Hmm, I think the wolves just won. And I think they correctly guessed the role I picked. I'm also doubly convinced that Reinholdt is a wolf since, as Catseye pointed out, I could have gone baner to avoid night kill, so why didn't he think of that? Or maybe he did but didn't want to say it.

Of course, you all realise that with only five players, if there are two wolves and we lynch a villager on day one, then as long as the wolves don't hit a baner with their night kill, on day two there will be two wolves and one villager and so the wolves win - in one day/night cycle.

However I suspect that their are no townies. And I hope everyone realised that seers are virtually useless because the game can be won in one day/night cycle with just two wolves, and that with only one wolf, it gets won in two day/night cycles (assuming no failed night kills) so that the best way is just to be baner and then protect yourself. That effectively prevents the wolves' night kill completely.

[Reinholdt]

Hmm, I think the wolves just won. And I think they correctly guessed the role I picked. I'm also doubly convinced that Reinholdt is a wolf since, as Catseye pointed out, I could have gone baner to avoid night kill, so why didn't he think of that? Or maybe he did but didn't want to say it.

Actually, I didn't think of that because yesterday I had a couple of finals, had to pack, and drive home. I didn't give the game enough thought to think of each of the four possibilities, though I should have.

All the same, I think I'll stick with you on the basis of you =/= me.

[Emperor Demonking]

Jontom Xire was backed into a corner by the rest of the people. He tried to persuade them not to, but they didn't stop. Jontom Xire was lynched by the people. He never got to use his power for the greater good.

Jontom Xire was lynched. He was the Baner

As they looked at the body, they in unison said. "Mwa, ha ha. We wolves have killed a baner."
Then two of them spoke. "I thought we were the wolves."
"No, we're the wolves."

The Wolves Won.

[Jontom Xire]

Aaaaaaannnndddddd - TOLD YOU SO!

EDK,

for short games such as this, where one wrong lynch can end the game - like this, I think we need much longer days so as to properly debate stuff.

So who were the wolves? I'm guessing Reinholdt and Catseye. And if I'm right then I claim a posthumous victory for being completely awesome. Although actually I do have a small doubt about Reinholdt.

I also think I should have gone for the no-lynch vote as has been allowed in former small games such as this. Really, in small games it's the best option because one wrong lynch can lose the game, whereas night actions can give the wolves away.

[Emperor Demonking]

Recaiden, Selrhac
Catseye, Recaiden.

[Jontom Xire]

Sorry?

There were actually two sets of two wolves each? And one player was in both sets of wolves?

Was I the ONLY person who didn't pick wolf or something?

If there were two sets of two wolves, shouldn't the game be declared a draw? Or a victory for the villagers since the wolves would inevitably wipe each other out.

[Emperor Demonking]

Recaiden, Selrhac
Catseye, Reinholdt.

It'd be a tie between the wolves.

[Jontom Xire]

If you hadn't ended the game then, each pack of wolves would have killed one of the others.

The day vote would be a tie, and that night the remaining wolves would have (hopefully) killed each other and everyone would be dead.

I don't think having two wolf packs of two works. Sorry, EDK, but it doesn't. The wolves win conditions is usually when they outnumber the villagers. Well hello, one villager 4 wolves! Even one wolf pack outnumbers the villagers on it's own. The game was technically a draw between the wolves as soon as it started!

Let's suppose that by some miraculous fluke, I had survived the lynch and a wolf had been lynched instead. And let's face it, I would have had a better chance of survival if I had said "I think X is a baner" rather than "I think X is a wolf". So if I had survived, one wolf pack would be down to one player. If the other wolf pack had targetted him, then the wolves instantly win even if the other wolf pack target them too! Although I could have made out a good argument for a draw. But usually if you get one baner and one wolf left it's reckoned that the wolves have won.

So, basically, however you cut it the villagers lose. The only way they could have won is:

Day 1 - lynch wolf from pack B
Night 1 - pack A target baner (if lone villager is a seer - no chance of villagers winning) and pack B target pack A.
Day 2 - no lynch. If there is a lynch then if it's the baner then villagers lose, and if it's a wolf then villagers lose.
Night 2 - both wolf packs target each other.


Alternatively, and equally unlikely:

Day 1 - no lynch
Night 1 - both packs target each other
Day 2 - no lynch
Night 2 - both packs target each other

In other words, only on day 1 can villagers afford a lynch and every night the wolf pack kills have to exactly balance the remaining number of wolves in each party. The chances of that are next to impossible. So I, as the only villager, was just wolf fodder. Moreover the wolves couldn't afford to lynch me or they end up with a measly draw.

To sum up, it sucked for game balance. The number of villagers HAS to be greater than the total number of wolves. And the wolves can never afford to use their night kill because all villagers are sure to be baners.

I think you would have to put in the following restrictions:

At least 1 wolf
No more than 2 wolves
Only 1 wolf pack
At least 1 townie or seer (or night killable person)


I still love the idea, but it has to be balanced. 4 wolves and one villager ends up with the villager not wanting to lynch anyone, a complete reversal of the usual game, and the wolves not wanting to kill the only villager, another complete reversal.

[Emperor Demonking]

Yeah, I expected more people to pick town.

[Jontom Xire]

I think a good way to balance it is to say that if there are too many wolves they have to play townies. That should cool their ardour to play the wolf role.

Similarly, not enough wolves, the townies get promoted to wolves, then whatever power role (seer or baner) there are more than one of.

Are you going to run another?

[Emperor Demonking]

Possibly.

* *

[Reinholdt]

Yeah, I expected more people to pick town.

Truth be told, I was very tempted to pick a regular villager cause it's my favorite role.

Good call, though Jontom. Not sure how you knew me, but it seems I going to have to start varying my strategy.

And indeed, with some balance twinks I think this could be a very fun WW variant. Even for larger versions (there will have to be limits on roles somehow). I think Llama Llama Duck was going for something similar, but trying for the silly more than the balance.

[Selrahc]

Well I would be up for another game, if people still want to play.

Also, I have to say I only picked werewolf because there was a subtle implication that there might not be any werewolves otherwise. I'm dismayed to find out that it was such a popular choice. Next time I'll go baner, like I was originally inclined to do. Or maybe not.