Archons(and other unit side structures)

[Godskook]

Yeah, I was wondering what other people's take on what exactly Archons are. My best guess is that they are some kind of warlord/caster amalgam, and Charlie has no other units in his forces thus justifying why any side could be able to mass-produce those pixies.

If I'm right, I think I've got three of the sides pegged for unit structures. Charlie is one unit that does everything. GK is cheap or disposable with a couple surprises(golems, undead, and gobwins are disposable. Dwagons, KISS, and Stanley are surprises). TV is doombats and warlords(disposables+buffing)(I also kinda think that doombats get a higher bonus from their warlords than other units do).

[RPGuru1331]

Potentially, Charlie only employs Warlords and Casters. He's a mercenary. He's not obligated to field forces the same way other forces do.

[DevilDan]

I don't know that archons have proven to have any leadership at all; they may not count as warlords. I think they may be a subtype of casters (in which case, they can lead units but are still not called warlords). However, they may not necessarily be full casters: their energy weapons and other abilities (thinkamancy is what we've seen) may be a natural type of thinkamancy. We haven't seen them use magic words in the more common Erf-style, unless their battle-cries when croaking the wounded dwagons were a type of magic word. We don't even know if Charlie can pop them because he has the arkendish or if he uses the dish to give them their powers only.

As for TV. I like to think that this world will prove deeper than that. For all I know all TV units fly, but that doesn't mean that that side only has warlords and doombats. Think of all the funny living variants you could make based on other traditional "Monsters": wolfmen infantry, flesh-golem Frankenstein monsters, aquatic Black Lagoon monsters, etc.

[Brewdude]

Archons are just big flying units with lots of abilities other than the ability to be mounted (except, perhaps, when it's not their turn, but we won't go there...:P). There's no evidence that they can lead or that they give other units bonus attack or defense power.

[Welf]

I'm guessing that they are casters. Somehow Charlie found out how to produce casters willingly or in larger numbers than usual.

[MReav]

I'm wondering if he pops Archons, or if he pops normal units that get upgraded into Archons (presumably through the use of his Arkendish)

[SteveMB]

We haven't seen them use magic words in the more common Erf-style, unless their battle-cries when croaking the wounded dwagons were a type of magic word.

From what we've seen so far, a real-world reference (like the business buzzwords) is "the common Erf-style" of magic word.

Flight is apparently a natural ability of Archons (since Jaclyn could still fly after being uncroaked, and uncroaked casters don't keep their casting ability).

[Godskook]

As for TV. I like to think that this world will prove deeper than that. For all I know all TV units fly, but that doesn't mean that that side only has warlords and doombats. Think of all the funny living variants you could make based on other traditional "Monsters": wolfmen infantry, flesh-golem Frankenstein monsters, aquatic Black Lagoon monsters, etc.

Since most, if not all, air units so far shown have ~40+ move(gwiffons with less are always 'used', I believe), I really doubt that TV has anything else that flies. While land-based units are a possibility, I hold the seemingly contradictory position that requiring all sides to have unit depth actually makes the overall world more shallow. Compare Warcraft 2 and 3 to see something of what I'm referring to. In 2, the sides were nearly perfectly equal. Mostly the orcs where just repaints of the alliance side(or vice versa). In 3, different sides had completely different tech trees. Hell, even the peons varied a lot from side to side. I guess what I'm saying is that Erfworld can be pretty deep while still limiting TV to warlords, casters(or was she using a natural thinkamancy?) and doombats.

[Sieggy]

From what we've seen so far, a real-world reference (like the business buzzwords) is "the common Erf-style" of magic word.

Flight is apparently a natural ability of Archons (since Jaclyn could still fly after being uncroaked, and uncroaked casters don't keep their casting ability).

But if that's the case, why would Wanda uncroak an Archon immediately? Jaclyn was the first one uncroaked . . . If it's just airborne infantry, a chickie in a poodle skirt should have held no attraction. Unless . . . No, not going there . . . (I don't want to read about Wanda going out for a stiff one . . .)

She should have made a beeline to the unipegatard, which is capable of carrying her, if she was looking for guys who can dish out physical damage. She must have had a reason for uncroaking an Archon first.

[Alexei P]

I don't think they are casters: casters have been shown to be very rare, very valuable units one doesn't lightly throw in an open battlefield.

I don't believe they are warlords, either. Warlords seem to be the elite of unit types. They are leaders and decision-makers. And they seem to take a very long time to pop and are expensive to promote. I don't think any one side would throw a group of thirty warlords around. Not without lesser units to apply a leadership bonus to - the main battle function of the warlords.

I conclude they must simply be a powerful flier unit. Their special attack doesn't feel much different from what a dwagon's breath might do, and the flying is a natural feature. Their ability to manage to dispatch thinkagrams seems to depend rather on a remote contact with the Dish than on any personal ability.

As for why Charlie only seems to have archons - I don't think that has to do with the nature of his side. More likely, Charlescomm cities can produce many a type of unit. Charlie just ordered them to produce archons at the expense of anything else. Presumably, Archons lend themselves better to short-notice mercenary duty than any other unit in his catalog: high move, power versatility, high damage output, and intelligent enough to handle complex missions and unexpected developments.

[shadowdemon_lord]

My personal theory has always been that being attuned to the Arkendish gives Charlescomm the ability to pop Archons, as well as basic thinkamancy abilities to every unit under his command. Archons don't seem to be the match of Dwagons, nothing is as far as we can tell (boop, a small group of Dwagons with no bonus was able to take down Jillian), and she's a fairly high level warlord. And they have consistently been able to one or two shot just about everything, including siege and heavies.

Also, as to the what units does TV have debate. I'd bet they have ground units (and seige), why would you use anything but fliers when you know your up against a flight of dwagons?

[DevilDan]

But if that's the case, why would Wanda uncroak an Archon immediately? Jaclyn was the first one uncroaked . . . If it's just airborne infantry, a chickie in a poodle skirt should have held no attraction. Unless . . . No, not going there . . . (I don't want to read about Wanda going out for a stiff one . . .)

She should have made a beeline to the unipegatard, which is capable of carrying her, if she was looking for guys who can dish out physical damage. She must have had a reason for uncroaking an Archon first.

I truly think that we're reading too much into the idea that she uncroaked the archon first. Some unit had to be the first one, so why not the one that had been closest? (That is, the archon was closest, as she came close to where Jill was flying while talking to Wanda.) Unless we have real evidence that she went well out of her way to uncroak the archon first, I don't see that this is significant. In addition, it's possible that the archon has the most natural magical abilities and intelligence of the felled units, so that it might be more profitable to put the most energy into getting her uncroaked as close to her living stats and abilities as possible, so why not "treat" her first?

[Godskook]

I don't believe they are warlords, either. Warlords seem to be the elite of unit types. They are leaders and decision-makers. And they seem to take a very long time to pop and are expensive to promote. I don't think any one side would throw a group of thirty warlords around. Not without lesser units to apply a leadership bonus to - the main battle function of the warlords.

Archons seem bound by Duty, and if so, are some kind of commander unit(warlords and casters are the only types I know of).

[RPGuru1331]

...Wait, Jaclyn was uncroaked? Sauce plz? I seem to have missed that..

[DevilDan]

...Wait, Jaclyn was uncroaked? Sauce plz? I seem to have missed that..

Here is Jillian uncroaking an archon:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0108.html

Charles says the croaked archon was Jaclyn here (in which we see an archon as one of Jillian's uncroaked flying squadron):
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0112.html

An undead archon is shown here:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0115.html

[RPGuru1331]

Alright, it took me a bit. I confused the centaur things with uncroaked archons and thought it was just a case of a spell producing a unique result when combined with a particular unit.

[Alexei P]

Archons seem bound by Duty, and if so, are some kind of commander unit(warlords and casters are the only types I know of).

Is this Duty? I don't know. Certainly a case of using personal initiative, but hardly in the service of the ruler, in this case. More like willing to help out a random unit you happen to sympathize with at the moment.

[DevilDan]

Is this Duty? I don't know. Certainly a case of using personal initiative, but hardly in the service of the ruler, in this case. More like willing to help out a random unit you happen to sympathize with at the moment.

Excellent point. Plus, I think that we tend to underestimate free will in even the lowest units. After all, we don't know what the threshold is for "turning."

Obeying the rule about breaking the rules is also obedience... wait, does that make sense? Haha.

[Prowl]

Archons are just a particularly powerful unit type, really nice to have back in Warlords II. Flying, high strength, some special abilities and stack bonus, but not a warlord.

[shadowdemon_lord]

Still, Charlies archons must have warlords in the mix somewhere. Otherwise they'd get into random fights with things, which we've never seen happen. Now, of course it could be that no one's dumb enough to provoke them, but that seems like a bit of a risk to send large numbers of unlead troops far away from the capital.

[Finwe]

In times of great peril, two High Templar can take the final step down the Warrior's Path and merge themselves into the awe-inspiring Archon. By abandoning their physical form, the High Templar open themselves up completely to the Protoss gestalt, and they transform into a personification of pure rage. Protected by an immense energy shield, the fiery form of the Archon can wade through countless enemy troops, destroying them with massive bolts of raw Psionic energy. Those Templar that make this final sacrifice are honored forever in the scriptures of the Templar Archives.

The Archon Merge process is initiated when at least two High Templar are selected and the Summon Archon command is issued. The actual process takes some time to complete and in the meantime the the merged Templar are unable to attack and in a highly vulnerable state. Keep in mind, that once the two High Templar enter into their Psionic cocoon, the process is irreversible and the High Templar used to merge will be lost forever.

The Archon attack should be a terrifying sight for any opponent, considering that it can cause 30 base points of Normal Damage (up to 39 points of Normal Damage when full upgraded) to both air and ground targets as well as 1/2 splash damage to enemy targets within a 1-15 pixel radius and 1/4 damage within a 15-30 pixel radius. Also the splash damage will not damage friendly units such as your own, but will damage your allies units. Needless to say, in numbers, Archons can wreck absolute havoc on any enemy force, especially against masses of the smaller units (i.e. Marines/Firebats, Zerglings, etc.).

The Archon also classifies as a Hovering unit and as such, they do not set off Terran Spider Mines and can be useful for either completely bypassing any Spider Mine field to attack enemy targets or for clearing out Spider Mine fields (with the aid of an Observer or other means of detection) so that any supporting ground units can pass through.

The one weakness the Archon possesses is its fragile physical form. Although it has an immensely powerful plasma shield, the Archon only has 10 HP and when they're depleted, the Archon will die. Because of this, The Terran Science Vessel with the EMP Shockwave ability is probably the Archon's deadliest enemy. If hit by an EMP Shockwave, the Archon is left only with its 10 HP and at that point almost any enemy unit could kill the Archon. If an Archon does happen to get hit with EMP Shockwave, the best means of survival is to get to a Shield Battery as quickly as possible and recharge the Archon's shields. If your opponent looks to be an avid EMP Shockwave user, you should probably build Shield Batteries close to any battle fronts (since it will benefit any Protoss unit, not only the Archon).

Note that the more Archons you have, the more Shield Batteries you will want to build. A single Archon with fully depleted shields can drain a fully charged Shield Battery (Archons have a base 350 Plasma Shield points).

The Archon is immune to or at least not much affected by many of the special abilities found in StarCraft. Examples include Dark Swarm (an Archon can still attack within a Dark Swarm even though it has a short range attack), Plague (only decreases HP from 10 to 1 but does not affect the 350 points of Plasma Shields), Irradiate (complete immunity) and Spawn Broodling (complete immunity). The Archon is, however, susceptible to Protoss special abilities like Psionic Storm and Mind Control so be wary of enemy Protoss special ability units.

In island warfare, Archons can be extremely useful as mobile anti-air defense and if you have enough Vespine gas to produce the High Templar needed to summon Archons, you can easily deter any "drop" tactics or aerial assaults. Archons work particularly well against groups of Mutalisks as well as Wraiths (detected or not cloaked). They can also hold their own against Battlecruisers and Carriers (if they are within attack range), but be careful of Yamato Gun strikes from the Battlecruisers and be sure to attack the actual Carriers and not the Interceptors.

Makes sense if you can buy "Thinkamancy ~= Psionics"

[DevilDan]

Still, Charlies archons must have warlords in the mix somewhere. Otherwise they'd get into random fights with things, which we've never seen happen. Now, of course it could be that no one's dumb enough to provoke them, but that seems like a bit of a risk to send large numbers of unlead troops far away from the capital.

You could very well be right, or this could also be a case of Charlie making his own rules using the arkendish.

Sure, Charlie may have warlords. However, as mercenaries they are likely to always be placed under the command of the client's warlords.

[slayerx]

Still, Charlies archons must have warlords in the mix somewhere. Otherwise they'd get into random fights with things, which we've never seen happen. Now, of course it could be that no one's dumb enough to provoke them, but that seems like a bit of a risk to send large numbers of unlead troops far away from the capital.

Well considering how infantry can be promoted to warlords, its not impossible to consider that the archons could also be promoted to warlords if charlie wanted

[tribble]

it's possible that Archons are powered by thinkamancy (and maybe something else, like stagemancy) in much the same way that golems are powered by dirtamancy. so i guess i'm saying they're thinkamancy golems.

[Zolem]

it's possible that Archons are powered by thinkamancy (and maybe something else, like stagemancy) in much the same way that golems are powered by dirtamancy. so i guess i'm saying they're thinkamancy golems.

On that note, since they are controlled by long-range thinkamancy it's like they had a warlord with them so they don't auto-engage.