My Little Pony XXXV: The Thread Everypony Should Know

[Sean Mirrsen]

People trying to judge fantasy worlds by reality's standards again.

If something is significantly different from our world and is accepted as normal, then it shouldn't be treated as something abnormal, if its abnormal for the world, its abnormal for that world.

if its normal for a world where dragons exist, for dragons to easily fly, therefore it should be treated as normal. its normal for dragons to eat gems, therefore its normal for them. as long as the world keeps being consistent about what we know, then there is no problem with it.

and I personally say that any fantasy world has completely different subatomic particles, and other such building blocks that make everything as different as it can be, even the mathematics of the world, so that to reduce anything down to a scientific explanation, you'd have to reinvent mathematics and physics itself to do so, that cannot interact with our world's physics.

therefore, obviously ponies, dragons and everything are made up of things we don't have names for, using math and processes we wouldn't understand,
using rules that are different from ours. because I find trying to figure out how all this works in the real world strange, because they clearly work on completely different rules that couldn't possibly explain how we exist, because our rules cannot possibly explain how they exist.

Well, the problem with that line of thinking, for us overly analytical people, is the principle TVTropes calls "Like Reality Unless Noted". That is, given a world where most things are similar to reality, and faced with something strange that isn't given an explanation, unless the show explicitly provides an in-universe explanation for said something, we can infer that said something probably works in a way that is possible, plausible and/or logical in the real world. Since we're not given an explanations for dragons' gemstone digestion and flight capability, we can attempt to extrapolate a possible mode of operation through processes we know to be at least feasible in reality, before resorting to "it's magic".

Of course, in regards to flight it's pretty obviously magic (as in the case of pegasi as well), but as long as there's a somewhat scientific explanation to be found, we will continue searching for it.

[Lord Raziere]

nah, that makes too many assumptions. 1. your assuming that there is indeed an explanation that works. 2. your assuming that they have had time to focus on explaining such things. 3. that the setting is fully developed 4. that the protagonists view things from our perspective of reality.

and so on. to the protagonists that IS reality. if we came up to them and told them about our reality they would answer back with a bunch of questions and similar over-analysis pointing out how a bunch of things we have/do don't make any sense to their rules. therefore we can't assume that its Like Reality Unless Noted, because they are in a separate place where reality is completely different! Like Reality Unless Noted only works in places set in the real world!
if it has its own internal consistency, it has nothing to do with our internal consistency, therefore useless for analyzing.

[Lix Lorn]

People like analyzing. Therefore they will analyze. Their analyzing doesn't hurt anyone. What's more, it's interesting.

[Litewarior]

People will try to dissect anything and everything to understand it by our laws. Read most stories that contain magical theory, they will refer to our laws of physics and how they interact with magic (conservation of energy, friction, etc.). Few stories will just contain an explanation that we can't understand (because that makes readers feel dumb) or just say that it's magic, deal with it (feels like a cop out).

[Aotrs Commander]

Also "it's magic" doesn't mean "has no explanation." I am a great believer in explaining what the magic does when "it's magic" is invoked (magic is, after all, simply another science, despite what technologically and thaumateurgically primative societies often claim. It has it's own rules and laws, complex, not easily understood though they may often be.)

And just because one thing is magical, it also doesn't and never should mean "nothing has any meaning, because everything is different" (Indeed, little annoys me more than "it's magic, I don't have to explain it¹" and I actually ferverently disagree with the MST3K mantra when applied injudiciously.

When I say "dragons have to be magical to fly", I should really have said "dragons (and many other creatures/aliens/etc) passively draw on what is best termed as "background magical radiation" with a fairly minimal thaumatergical signature which is in fact a common source of all supernatural special abilities (and the reasons superpowers in general work at all, let alone all magic or psionics etc etc) which enables their physical structure to function in a form that permits them to fly, breath fire (etc etc) and do all the other things they do."

Note "background magical radiation" is virtually impossible to detect even magically, unless you happen to have a very clear understanding of magic science (as in an understanding considerably greater than 21st century Earth has of physics) and you know eactly what you're looking for, unless you happen to be in a region where the "background magical radiation" is in flux (i.e. waxing and waning).

(I mean, I could explain - in reasonable detail - Aotrs thaumatergical theory, though it would make no sense to any of you, as the advancement is on the same level as Aotrs technology, well beyond 21st century science which would require years of study to get your head around the basic principles; it's literally like trying to explain quantum and molecular physics to a Roman - from the Roman Kingdom.)

Reality runs to the lowest energy level. If there's a way to do something non-magically, that should (and generally does) be the first explanation, with magic/sufficiently advanced technology/whatever applied only where absolutely necessary, to expand on what's already there and/or "cover the gaps". (That's a good principle to apply to everything, incidently, from world design to real-world combat applications.)



¹Actually, yes, you DO have to explain it - not in detail, not as replicable science - but yes, actually you DO have to show that you've at least thought about it, or your ghost will be explaining it to the nice Lich with the Rocket Launcher and you won't be moving on until he's satisfied...

"It's magic, it [technobabble]" is perfectly fine, however, so long as you at least have put some effort into trying.

Lazy writing makes me angry.

[Litewarior]

I'm not saying technobabble is a bad thing, I actually like it. However, when people watch things that have technobabble, they might start to think to hard about it, head starts to hurt, and they won't watch the show as a result (This probably doesn't happen often but I don't know). If however, they use commonly known physic laws, then the people can understand them better and feel smarter, and want to watch it.

Also, writing technobabble that makes sense is hard. But I do agree with you, lazy writing is a terrible thing and should be a mortal sin (Replace thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods with thou shalt not be lazy, and the world instantly becomes 5x more productive).

[Thanqol]

I smell a ship!
*Flees*

UOLizie one image: Jayden+thistle, action: MAKEOUTS

Harem pants made Jayden angry. This makes her blush.

Since you are spreading pretty pictures around, shameless self promotion! http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228920

On an unrelated note for those lacking all techsav, how do I post a link with any name I want rather than the URL?

(url=www.yourlink.com)My link! (/url) except with square brackets rather than round ones. Also the blue planet with the chain in the buttons box at the top of the screen.

"I... you guys are fighting about... harem pants? What? And, uh, nothing much, not really, I guess..."

"No, this seems like a pretty belligerent conversation to me..."

"OK, yes, blind and deaf, hooray, but could we, uh, have talk in, I dunno, a somewhat more friendly way?"

Jayden: "Listen up, pansy. You can either assert your opinion too or you can lie down like a coward but what you can't do is get me to lie down too. This stuff is too important for half-measures."

(Is a pony. Does not have a wallet.)

Mask: "Then what did I just steal?" *Looks; it's a Guild of Chains newsletter starring her* "Lix!"

*listens to universe singing*

So don't call me a moron
I'm super-astute!
There is no conundrum that my core cannot compute
No don't call me a moron
My IQ is equal to the infinite space from here to the moon...

Oh wait sorry, wrong universe, thats Autocthon.

I always heard him as 'Master Builder.'

*changes the universe radio*

*Hears Death Notes opening theme*

Whoops sorry, thats the Whispers of the Neverborn

'I'm only happy when it rains.'

[Rebelhero]

Yeah, see.
She is chipper. She is loyal. She likes setting things on fire, possibly with bullets. Those combine so that terrible and interesting things will always be happening, but you'll be spared the bodily harm because she likes you.

Provided nothing she just pulled out is both classifiable as a power tool and a lethal weapon at the same time, I really don't see your objection.

Ponyard is just shy. He wont actually say that hes INTO what i do to him. Trust me, ive talked to Ms. Pierce. She told me what goes down.
*horrified*O.O; SKY! THIS IS NOT THE PLACE.
Says the pony with the catch phrase of "ADVENTURE!!"
You guys are enjoying this aren't you.
Not as much as you enjoyed -Censored-
*Blushes* oh my...
......you better pray no one else heard that.


I am trying so hard no to cross any lines here. But their back stories and adventures are just too funny. Do i roleplay too much?

[SiuiS]

Trouble is, that would put your target profile up more and, more pertinently, that makes it more likely that someone will shoot you with an anti-armour weapon. (Nowadays, nearly everyone carries some form of light anti-armour, as thay can be smaller enough that the equivalentof an RPG-22 can be part our your standard kit. It's more or less a requirement, actually, since there are that many things out there that are bigger and meaner (Strayvians, Powered Infantry, us, WarDroids, Cybertanks etc etc) that you sort of have to be prepared for it.

(The Aotrs are unusual in that we don't tend to carry a disposable LAW as part of our standard equipment. Though somewhat, this is due to our greater reliance on magic - the standard Lightning Bolt spell in the Aotrs arsenal is quite up to the job, and, of course, the squads all have a dedicated Snake Launcher operator.)

I'll have to concede if you press the issue, especially because I have absolutely NO idea of how prevalent artillery or armor piercing weapons would be. No point in a shield of that expense if it's just goin to be immediately targeted by anyone who knows better.

However, all the initial benefits bandied about for heavy weapons would actually apply to shields. Each one could carry a shield waaaaay to big for any other critter to carry as effectively. I cannot say that I know the exact math between expected weapon output versus plausible armor resiliency, but from where I'm currently standing I could see a Jalyrkeion having a shield/wall stron enough that if the enemy can trivialize it, the Jalyrkeion brass are idiots for dropping infantry there anyway.

But I suppose that's as far as I can take that line of reasoning.

Ah, that was me falling into Manouvre Group termininology. "Fully stabilised" means that you don't suffer so big a penalty firing off-road (though it applies to vehicles, rather than infantry).

On further consideration, though, I think them being able to run while firing (because unlike humans, they don't need to swing their arms as part of their balance) as if an (unstabilised) vehicle is probably more than good enough - as you rightly say, I was overexaggerating their ability to hold their guns level.

Aye, I recognized the gamer jargon. My mistake was, upon initial scan, thinking you said they were as stable as, say, a prone rifleman with a bipod, as opposed to always considered on level terrain or whatnot. My knee jerk was "nothing that moves can ever really be that stable!" and I didn't catch it until the end. My faux pas.

Pffftahahahaha!

Yes, I watch anime - anime English DUBS (like Naruto).

And only limited numbers at that (I'm more of a cartoon, than anime fan). Naruto and Pokemon are the only two I watch in earnest (though I've seen a fair bit of Dragonball Z).

I can just about recognise Japanses when spoken - due to the fairly small numbers of things I've watched subbed (Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha) or some of my JRPGs, but familiar? Heck no!

No foreign language skills, remember?

(I prefer dubs, generally, since I tend to watch while having supper (what, I like my chocolate and I like my cerial and cheese too! (No, not at the same time...) Unlike Xykon, I can still eat, so damn it if I'm not gonna enjoy myself), which you kinda can't do when watching a sub.)

Honestly, I you say "nah roo tow" instead of "neh rudo" you've got the level of skill I was talking about - the ability to read a character bio and not say "what kind of pansy ninja is named 'Sassook'?"

Please tell me about the wonders of a massive reptile surviving on minerals with no nutritinal value, please.

nitrtional value

minerals

Dunno about you, but I take in minerals all the time.

and I personally say that any fantasy world has completely different subatomic particles.

I used this exact argument a couple days ago in the IRC, actually. It prompted someone to rant the word "flesh!" at me for a while. Good fun!

Also "it's magic" doesn't mean "has no explanation." I am a great believer in explaining what the magic does when "it's magic" is invoked (magic is, after all, simply another science, despite what technologically and thaumateurgically primative societies often claim. It has it's own rules and laws, complex, not easily understood though they may often be.)

And just because one thing is magical, it also doesn't and never should mean "nothing has any meaning, because everything is different" (Indeed, little annoys me more than "it's magic, I don't have to explain it¹" and I actually ferverently disagree with the MST3K mantra when applied injudiciously.

When I say "dragons have to be magical to fly", I should really have said "dragons (and many other creatures/aliens/etc) passively draw on what is best termed as "background magical radiation" with a fairly minimal thaumatergical signature which is in fact a common source of all supernatural special abilities (and the reasons superpowers in general work at all, let alone all magic or psionics etc etc) which enables their physical structure to function in a form that permits them to fly, breath fire (etc etc) and do all the other things they do."

Note "background magical radiation" is virtually impossible to detect even magically, unless you happen to have a very clear understanding of magic science (as in an understanding considerably greater than 21st century Earth has of physics) and you know eactly what you're looking for, unless you happen to be in a region where the "background magical radiation" is in flux (i.e. waxing and waning).

(I mean, I could explain - in reasonable detail - Aotrs thaumatergical theory, though it would make no sense to any of you, as the advancement is on the same level as Aotrs technology, well beyond 21st century science which would require years of study to get your head around the basic principles; it's literally like trying to explain quantum and molecular physics to a Roman - from the Roman Kingdom.)

Reality runs to the lowest energy level. If there's a way to do something non-magically, that should (and generally does) be the first explanation, with magic/sufficiently advanced technology/whatever applied only where absolutely necessary, to expand on what's already there and/or "cover the gaps". (That's a good principle to apply to everything, incidently, from world design to real-world combat applications.)



¹Actually, yes, you DO have to explain it - not in detail, not as replicable science - but yes, actually you DO have to show that you've at least thought about it, or your ghost will be explaining it to the nice Lich with the Rocket Launcher and you won't be moving on until he's satisfied...

"It's magic, it [technobabble]" is perfectly fine, however, so long as you at least have put some effort into trying.

Lazy writing makes me angry.

Agreed. I also dislike the characterization of science as a discrete thing which implies legitimacy. Science is "everything that is known". It implies a bit of objectivity, but really, if you can apply the scientific method to magic, then magic IS science. It's just magic, instead of chemistry or geology or physics.

-

Lixie: I may also know how to purr, but it's entirely reflexive. Aeolus be much better if I could do it on command...

[PrinceAquilaDei]

Hey new guy I haven't been able to respond to yet! Aquila.... Argh. I'm terrible with James (see above).

The code for putting whatever in a URL is

this is going to be the actual text of the link

I'm gonna go get some more bed rest now. get offa my lawn!

Smartphones are terrible, but what else is new. Thanks, Hopefully I wont mess that up whenever it becomes relevant.

[Dexam]

My thoughts on the nature of dragon and pegasus flight, as presented in MLP:FiM...

I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but my reasoning for dragon and pegasus flight in Equestria can be summed up with one simple explanation: the atmosphere of Equestria is significantly more dense than Earth's atmosphere.

Dragons and pegasi are capable of flight in much the same way that Earth whales and dolphins are capable of swimming. In fact, I would posit that the dragons and pegasi in Equestria are not so much as "flying" as "swimming" through a thick atmosphere.

High atmospheric density also explains why falling ponies seem to take a long time to fall relatively short distances (Rarity in Sonic Rainboom, Fluttershy in Cutie Mark Chronicles); why the butterflies are capable of supporting filly Fluttershy's weight (dense musculature in the butterflies for flying through the dense atmosphere vs the relatively lower density of a pegasus); how a sonic rainboom is possible at "slower than speed of sound" (sound travels much more easily through a denser medium, hence the speed of sound in Equestria is much lower than Earth). It also explains the relative indestructability of ponies - they have evolved with low-density (decreased mass) high-strength skeletal structures to cope best in the thick atmosphere.

Let's take this another step further: a dense atmosphere would be relatively "soupy", limiting the range of vision. Hence ponies have evolved very large, anime-esque eyes to capture the limited light; and brightly coloured coats, manes, and tails to attract the attention of other ponies. The show's light levels looks "normal" to us, because it's presented as if viewed through the eyes of a pony.

That's all I've got for now, but there's a (quasi-)scientific explanation that doesn't rely on "it's magic, I don't have to explain ----". I'm sure someone will come along and poke holes in my theory, but hey - that's how science works!

[Pokonic]

My thoughts on the nature of dragon and pegasus flight, as presented in MLP:FiM...

I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but my reasoning for dragon and pegasus flight in Equestria can be summed up with one simple explanation: the atmosphere of Equestria is significantly more dense than Earth's atmosphere.

Dragons and pegasi are capable of flight in much the same way that Earth whales and dolphins are capable of swimming. In fact, I would posit that the dragons and pegasi in Equestria are not so much as "flying" as "swimming" through a thick atmosphere.

High atmospheric density also explains why falling ponies seem to take a long time to fall relatively short distances (Rarity in Sonic Rainboom, Fluttershy in Cutie Mark Chronicles); why the butterflies are capable of supporting filly Fluttershy's weight (dense musculature in the butterflies for flying through the dense atmosphere vs the relatively lower density of a pegasus); how a sonic rainboom is possible at "slower than speed of sound" (sound travels much more easily through a denser medium, hence the speed of sound in Equestria is much lower than Earth). It also explains the relative indestructability of ponies - they have evolved with low-density (decreased mass) high-strength skeletal structures to cope best in the thick atmosphere.

Let's take this another step further: a dense atmosphere would be relatively "soupy", limiting the range of vision. Hence ponies have evolved very large, anime-esque eyes to capture the limited light; and brightly coloured coats, manes, and tails to attract the attention of other ponies. The show's light levels looks "normal" to us, because it's presented as if viewed through the eyes of a pony.

That's all I've got for now, but there's a (quasi-)scientific explanation that doesn't rely on "it's magic, I don't have to explain ----". I'm sure someone will come along and poke holes in my theory, but hey - that's how science works!

Also, clouds are almost as dense as the ground below, and are as such that entire towns can be built on "cloud-stuff."

[Aotrs Commander]

I am trying so hard no to cross any lines here.

Don't worry, if things get too crazy, I've got the new and improved sanityinator ready to restore order!

Wasn't the Sanityinator a cattleprod duct-taped to a Snake warhead?

Yes, but that was the prototype. The horribly, painfully unsucessful prototype. The Mark II is purpose built!

Hff! Yeah, right! What did you do, weld a hundred cattle prods to a capital starship missile?

...

...

...No...?

*facepalm*

I'll have to concede if you press the issue, especially because I have absolutely NO idea of how prevalent artillery or armor piercing weapons would be. No point in a shield of that expense if it's just goin to be immediately targeted by anyone who knows better.

However, all the initial benefits bandied about for heavy weapons would actually apply to shields. Each one could carry a shield waaaaay to big for any other critter to carry as effectively. I cannot say that I know the exact math between expected weapon output versus plausible armor resiliency, but from where I'm currently standing I could see a Jalyrkeion having a shield/wall stron enough that if the enemy can trivialize it, the Jalyrkeion brass are idiots for dropping infantry there anyway.

But I suppose that's as far as I can take that line of reasoning.

Physical shields generally all have the same problem, that once you get to firearm level of speed, you can't move them to intercept fast enough (you can't see the shots coming), and generally making them infantry-weapon proof makes them too heavy to be infantry portable, given weapon penetration. (It should be remembered that armour is the last-ditch defense, not something you should rely on). Mainly, though, it's the fact you can't cover enough area against weapons that are much faster and more accurate, and that it tends to give your enemy something more obvious to shoot at.

And, as I can tell you from personal experience, shields are best used with other people in a shield wall. In my youth I did LARPing for a year or two, and my Dad made me a Roman Legionary-sized shield. Not only is it a bugger to cart around (even made of plywood with a (heavily) padded rim), I found it all too easy to get outflanked in the general melee. (Everyone else had "shields", if the had them at all, hat I'd barely qualify as bucklers! They, however, called mine a "table" because it was so big. In fact, it was a little bit undersized, because I wasn't quite full-grown...) Like everything else, shields are not all that easy as you'd think to use, and clearly take a bit of skill or practise to master!

(Shields made of energy, by which I mean historical-style shaped shields made of forcefields or something as opposed to "shields" in the starship sense are occasionally used or sorts... Though the only thing I can bring to mind off the top of my head, is the Herosine Empire's Psiloi Gravitic Orb Scout, which is basically a floating ball of a droid about two foot wide, and has a shield only to it's fore, because of the power contraints. (Shielding all around would have made the defense mostly worthless for the same power output, so they installed emitters only to the front.)

Honestly, I you say "nah roo tow" instead of "neh rudo" you've got the level of skill I was talking about - the ability to read a character bio and not say "what kind of pansy ninja is named 'Sassook'?"

Well, there is that.

Though there might be a bit of cultural in it as well - I vaguely recall reading/hearing (from entirely unsubstantiated sources) that Americans tend to read more phonetically, for some reason. (Which is why you guys spell colour and armour wrong¹.) It might even me an immediately local bias, given that there are at least two places names in my immediate area (well, immediately as far as US distances go...!) with non-phoenetic names (Derby itself "Darby" or in local parlance "Daaarby", and Crich ("Cr-eye-ch", and I've heard the latter pronounced wrong at least once on TV...)

Also, I did hear the Naruto dub before I ever read the names, rendering my entire point moot, aside from a humourous anecdote on local placenames.

I can ramble nonsensically with the best of 'em...

Agreed. I also dislike the characterization of science as a discrete thing which implies legitimacy. Science is "everything that is known". It implies a bit of objectivity, but really, if you can apply the scientific method to magic, then magic IS science. It's just magic, instead of chemistry or geology or physics.

Exactly.

My thoughts on the nature of dragon and pegasus flight, as presented in MLP:FiM...

I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but my reasoning for dragon and pegasus flight in Equestria can be summed up with one simple explanation: the atmosphere of Equestria is significantly more dense than Earth's atmosphere.

Dragons and pegasi are capable of flight in much the same way that Earth whales and dolphins are capable of swimming. In fact, I would posit that the dragons and pegasi in Equestria are not so much as "flying" as "swimming" through a thick atmosphere.

High atmospheric density also explains why falling ponies seem to take a long time to fall relatively short distances (Rarity in Sonic Rainboom, Fluttershy in Cutie Mark Chronicles); why the butterflies are capable of supporting filly Fluttershy's weight (dense musculature in the butterflies for flying through the dense atmosphere vs the relatively lower density of a pegasus); how a sonic rainboom is possible at "slower than speed of sound" (sound travels much more easily through a denser medium, hence the speed of sound in Equestria is much lower than Earth). It also explains the relative indestructability of ponies - they have evolved with low-density (decreased mass) high-strength skeletal structures to cope best in the thick atmosphere.

Let's take this another step further: a dense atmosphere would be relatively "soupy", limiting the range of vision. Hence ponies have evolved very large, anime-esque eyes to capture the limited light; and brightly coloured coats, manes, and tails to attract the attention of other ponies. The show's light levels looks "normal" to us, because it's presented as if viewed through the eyes of a pony.

That's all I've got for now, but there's a (quasi-)scientific explanation that doesn't rely on "it's magic, I don't have to explain ----". I'm sure someone will come along and poke holes in my theory, but hey - that's how science works!

That's a really interesting theory, actually. I kinda like it. I'm not sure I'd adopt it as my fanon, but it has a certain charm to it, nevertheless!



¹Yes, yes, you changed the spelling, but it was to make it more phonetically spelled. (Similar attempts have been made in the past on both sides of the pond. Nun ov them reely eva workt, tho...)

[Mando Knight]

how a sonic rainboom is possible at "slower than speed of sound" (sound travels much more easily through a denser medium, hence the speed of sound in Equestria is much lower than Earth)

The speed of sound would be higher, and there's clearly a Mach cone forming around Rainbow Dash before the Rainboom occurs. (Which, incidentally, points toward it being not due to breaking the sound barrier, but due to some kind of super- or hyper-sonic effect)

[Soras Teva Gee]

Also "it's magic" doesn't mean "has no explanation." I am a great believer in explaining what the magic does when "it's magic" is invoked (magic is, after all, simply another science, despite what technologically and thaumateurgically primative societies often claim. It has it's own rules and laws, complex, not easily understood though they may often be.)

And just because one thing is magical, it also doesn't and never should mean "nothing has any meaning, because everything is different" (Indeed, little annoys me more than "it's magic, I don't have to explain it¹" and I actually ferverently disagree with the MST3K mantra when applied injudiciously.

When I say "dragons have to be magical to fly", I should really have said "dragons (and many other creatures/aliens/etc) passively draw on what is best termed as "background magical radiation" with a fairly minimal thaumatergical signature which is in fact a common source of all supernatural special abilities (and the reasons superpowers in general work at all, let alone all magic or psionics etc etc) which enables their physical structure to function in a form that permits them to fly, breath fire (etc etc) and do all the other things they do."

My thoughts as a unicorn wizard are much the same. Magic does not just work because its magic. There is a certain value to having a miraclous occurence that transcends the conditions possible with magical aids available.... but this must be managed with the same utmost care from the point of view of the story.

[Lord Raziere]

I never said that science is only real world stuff. Science is a method.

I'm just saying, that the physics, the product of scientifically examining the world of Equestria, would yield far different results than what we know of. The more we would use science to figure out their world, we would eventually figure out that it would be fundamentally different from ours at the most basic, smallest pieces of reality, so different that our observations would lead is to conclude that they don't even have atoms, they have something similar to atoms, but we wouldn't have name for it. they would forms of energy similar to ours, but behave in different ways that would make us classify it as "not-exactly fire" and "not-exactly sound" but nevertheless they would be like sound, fire, and such, but they wouldn't be sound, fire, water whatever as we know them.

therefore due to your constant analysis and use of science, you would only eventually create a system completely different from that our system, even though the method, science, was the same method to figure out our own. the same can be said of all fantasy worlds. to me this is just logical after sustained analysis, the end that you will eventually always come to because you analyze them and try to figure them out. therefore I think it useless, because you will create a standard that was already there and already different from our own reality.

far faster, to just say "their rules are different from our rules, and I should just accept that" and leave it at that, to my way of thinking. accept that their rules are internally consistent, unless noted that its not internally consistent and that some unusual is happening.

[Dexam]

The speed of sound would be higher, and there's clearly a Mach cone forming around Rainbow Dash before the Rainboom occurs. (Which, incidentally, points toward it being not due to breaking the sound barrier, but due to some kind of super- or hyper-sonic effect)

Argh! *facehoof*

You are quite correct - a denser medium would result in a higher, not lower, speed of sound. I have only my tired and enfeebled brain to blame.

Also, this would mean that Rainbow Dash is even more awesome than previously thought.

[Tectonic Robot]

Jayden: "Listen up, pansy. You can either assert your opinion too or you can lie down like a coward but what you can't do is get me to lie down too. This stuff is too important for half-measures."

"What the heck are you two even arguing about? Seems to me like you're just trying to pick a fight, friend! And besides, half-measures suffice for most things."

[Thanqol]

"What the heck are you two even arguing about? Seems to me like you're just trying to pick a fight, friend! And besides, half-measures suffice for most things."

Jayden: "We were arguing about two Arcanum spheres, Forces - the mastery of heat, light, sound, gravity, electricity, velocity, ecetera - and Prime - the 'magic of magic', which does countermagic and mana manipulation and so on.

"That's what we were doing. Following this, my gracious opponent cast a spell to dress me in this ridiculous getup and fled the area. So we've moved beyond the realm of civilised debate and into the realm of electric megadeath beam cannons. Like I said before," Jayden said, producing a flashlight with an ominous amount of scorch marks around the bulb, "uncivilised would be much more interesting."

[Draconi Redfir]

People trying to judge fantasy worlds by reality's standards again.

If something is significantly different from our world and is accepted as normal, then it shouldn't be treated as something abnormal, if its abnormal for the world, its abnormal for that world.

if its normal for a world where dragons exist, for dragons to easily fly, therefore it should be treated as normal. its normal for dragons to eat gems, therefore its normal for them. as long as the world keeps being consistent about what we know, then there is no problem with it.

and I personally say that any fantasy world has completely different subatomic particles, and other such building blocks that make everything as different as it can be, even the mathematics of the world, so that to reduce anything down to a scientific explanation, you'd have to reinvent mathematics and physics itself to do so, that cannot interact with our world's physics.

therefore, obviously ponies, dragons and everything are made up of things we don't have names for, using math and processes we wouldn't understand,
using rules that are different from ours. because I find trying to figure out how all this works in the real world strange, because they clearly work on completely different rules that couldn't possibly explain how we exist, because our rules cannot possibly explain how they exist.

I just like theorizing how things might be possible without the handwave of Magic. I'm not saying this IS how things are in that world", i'm just saying "this COULD" be how things are in that world."

[Kato]

Thought maybe I should put that here.... er... discuss?

[Soras Teva Gee]

Thought maybe I should put that here.... er... discuss?

I linked that last page, but it did get a bit buried. Such is ponythread.

[Kato]

I linked that last page, but it did get a bit buried. Such is ponythread.

Ah, sorry. Missed that.
Well... I guess there are just some types of people who can be bronies and then some who just won't give it a chance... after all what highschool bully could ever be converted to the joy and bliss that is FiM.

[Thanqol]

Ah, sorry. Missed that.
Well... I guess there are just some types of people who can be bronies and then some who just won't give it a chance... after all what highschool bully could ever be converted to the joy and bliss that is FiM.

If you looked at what I was like in high school you'd find it very unlikely that I'd be here today.

[Pendulous]

Ah, sorry. Missed that.
Well... I guess there are just some types of people who can be bronies and then some who just won't give it a chance... after all what highschool bully could ever be converted to the joy and bliss that is FiM.

Or maybe this show needs to force the kids to watch more than the intro?

[otakuryoga]

Hey Amish Pirate

posted this a bit ago but i dont think you saw it since it was a bottom of page post...or i missed your comment on it if you did

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[Tectonic Robot]

Jayden: "We were arguing about two Arcanum spheres, Forces - the mastery of heat, light, sound, gravity, electricity, velocity, ecetera - and Prime - the 'magic of magic', which does countermagic and mana manipulation and so on.

"That's what we were doing. Following this, my gracious opponent cast a spell to dress me in this ridiculous getup and fled the area. So we've moved beyond the realm of civilised debate and into the realm of electric megadeath beam cannons. Like I said before," Jayden said, producing a flashlight with an ominous amount of scorch marks around the bulb, "uncivilised would be much more interesting."

Oh, well, just... don't murder each other, then?"

[SiuiS]

Pony road trip? *Suddenly I want to fly over to California and hit the road on the way to BroNYCon rather than take the shorter route straight there.

Regardless! *Barring any unfortunate incidents you can count me in. *I'll have to pass on the road trip part, but I'll be at the convention.

So I'll put you down as needing space for sleep, but not travel. *Question; what part of Canada do you live in, and if we get other Canadian bronies on line, would you be willing to be picked up with them? I mean, of it's a situation where I'll be nearby anyway, would you change your mind, or is it a matter of bein able to leave when you need to, not when the group does?

@Sius: That is one awesome idea and color me interested if not able to make any firm commitments at the moment. I literally am not even 100% on where I might be on the Eastern Seaboard come this summer. I was already planning on attending though.*

(I'm 25 with a perfect driving record though and made many trips around the NYC area so if availible I would gladly help drive)

Noted. If you're going to be there anyway I'll hall you out for floor space.

If at all possible I do not want to dive around the city though. Plan would be to give some lucky businessman at an outside garage our vehicle, and march to a trainamajig for transit to our locale. The earth ponies among us would naturally help with any excess luggage.

Now that sounds awesome. There are about a million reasons why I can't join in even though this sounds so awesome that I actually want to now. I wish you luck in your grand endeavor though.

Ah, don't take that kinda attitude mate! If its anything other than prior engagements or not wanting to go, we are totally willing to work out how to get you there.

Yes yes it is. *As for the next con I will let you know when things are loser I should have a job or two between then but I also have PAXEast and am planning to do some traveling over the summer so I have a lot of saving to do but I really do want to do another BroNYCon as this last one was the best time I have had in awhile.

Floor space, no transit needed. Gotcha.

Oh goodness, so much I need to post but I'm stuck at a conference with only a phone. So short version: SiuiS and Gaelbert please poke me if I don't post responses at you soon.

Poke, maybe? Can't recall if you said anything, gonna check.

stuff

Argh. I just cannot seem to quote you today...
Starting point is California bay area. Not entirely sure where, just yet. Depending on Brony density, either San Francisco, or the Concord/Wallnut Creek area. I'll mark ya down though.

Well, I am thinking of going, but I if I do I will be traveling there on my own.*

That being said I support this endeavor and so will contribute to alleviate this burden. Probably in monetary form, SiuiS, PM me when you have estimated the logistics and requirements.

Noted. Do you want to be put down for floor space, as it were, or will you be bunking alone?

I didn't want to stick this in a quotepost because I want people to read it:
NorCal/Bay Area bronies willing and able to make it to the Brony Beach Bonfire this Friday night in San Francisco, let me know so we can meet up or something. PM, email, smoke signal, homing pigeons, what have you. I want to meet some of y'all.

(Also, the final part of the quote post will be much, much smaller.)

Kinda bummed I missed this. But! It's good to know there is a large group in my area. With luck, we can wrangle things together, start a friendly competitive rivalry with Tink and the east coast con-bronies. Because when ponies try to outdo each other with super big parties?

Everypony wins.

You think that sounds creepy? You're planning on using cartoon ponies to entice people to get in a massive van, and then you're taking them across state borders.
I mean, I'm (hopefully) going to go with you, but still.
It's an awesome idea though, I don't mean to sound critical.

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;D

One Gaelbert, for van, cargo and floor space. Gotcha.

Nice. I live in San Francisco, and I might be able to make it. I'll get back to you in a couple of months.

Assuming the 'darn I have to work' was about the bonfire two nights ago, good stuff. I'll have you down as a tentative yes.

How do you phone people do this? Posting on an iPod is tough.
Anyway I had another involved pony dream that started with the announcement that MLP was all part of a deal between Hasbro and Celestia to get humanity used to the idea of magical ponies before revealing the actual existence of Equestria to the world, and ended with Topaz attending a Bronycon with Lyra and Bon Bon. Good times.

The only things I got from the last bronycon were black disks about the size of a fifty cent piece, bearing the marks of Celestia, Luna and Nightmare Moon (all on one neck cord, so I can flip 'em around as a mood indicator ) and small recalls of Lyra and Bon Bon, laminated on tiny lanyards and hanging from my keychain.

I guess... I guess I'm finally able to come out and say it.

[spoiler]

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guess who is my favorite pony?

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Bon Bon :smallredface

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Though Lyra is best supporting pony, and a darn good marefriend to boot.

[spoiler]

Ok, phone response time is go!*

@SiuiS: So I figure what the hay, Faust will be there and your latest travelogue has me super jealous so I'm going to be crazy here and say that you can count me in for Operation Faust. Send me a PM and I can further coordinate with you!

You got it. Actual planning begins when I get a chance to sit down, calculate miles, gas consumption, routes, room costs, and groceries.

That is, probably Tuesday.

Ponyard is just shy. He wont actually say that hes INTO what i do to him. Trust me, ive talked to Ms. Pierce. She told me what goes down.
*horrified*O.O; SKY! THIS IS NOT THE PLACE.
Says the pony with the catch phrase of "ADVENTURE!!"
You guys are enjoying this aren't you.
Not as much as you enjoyed -Censored-
*Blushes* oh my...
......you better pray no one else heard that.


I am trying so hard no to cross any lines here. But their back stories and *adventures are just too funny. Do i roleplay too much?

RP too much? Nah. We don't want a bunch of posts in a row that are nothin' but RP, but you're doing fine.

Starry looks at Sky Rocket, her eyes widening. For the briefest instant she looks shocked, before her eyes unfocused and she stares past and through the other pony, bells chiming gently*

Smartphones are terrible, but what else is new. Thanks, Hopefully I wont mess that up whenever it becomes relevant.

... Double dagnabbit! Not only did I mess up on the proof reading, but I apparently used the wrong tag. It was supposed to show the tags without engaging their function. I'll have to find how to do that again...

Luckily you quoted me, and got to see the example anyway...

Don't worry, if things get too crazy, I've got the new and improved sanityinator ready to restore order!

Wasn't the Sanityinator a cattleprod duct-taped to a Snake warhead?

Yes, but that was the prototype. The horribly, painfully unsucessful prototype. The Mark II is purpose built!

Hff! Yeah, right! What did you do, weld a hundred cattle prods to a capital starship missile?

...

...

...No...?

*facepalm*

Ugh. Facehoof indeed.
What wasn't that your idea?!

Physical shields generally all have the same problem, that once you get to firearm level of speed, you can't move them to intercept fast enough (you can't see the shots coming), and generally making them infantry-weapon proof makes them too heavy to be infantry portable, given weapon penetration. (It should be remembered that armour is the last-ditch defense, not something you should rely on). Mainly, though, it's the fact you can't cover enough area against weapons that are much faster and more accurate, and that it tends to give your enemy something more obvious to shoot at.

That's the thing. I'm not saying make them carry around cumbersome but useless riot shields; I'm asking if, given technological advances and the full understanding of their Telekinesis, could they carry around bunker walls? Mobile cover? A lot of the encumbrance issue is mitigated because they could not only transport but also wield the device. And it wouldn't be used like a shield, to parry bullets - it would be planted, maybe extra anchored with some TK, and fired around without having to expose the soldier. Metallurgically it is feasible, if expensive. The callibur of weapon that would breach it would be enough that they wouldn't try to hide behind said cover from it anyway.

Your responses make me lean towards no, and I'm only beating this issue because I'm not sure I'm coming across clearly, is all. I say 'shield' and I mean 'as effective as a five foot thick earthen rampart'.

And, as I can tell you from personal experience, shields are best used with other people in a shield wall. In my youth I did LARPing for a year or two, and my Dad made me a Roman Legionary-sized shield. Not only is it a bugger to cart around (even made of plywood with a (heavily) padded rim), I found it all too easy to get outflanked in the general melee. (Everyone else had "shields", if the had them at all, hat I'd barely qualify as bucklers! They, however, called mine a "table" because it was so big. In fact, it was a little bit undersized, because I wasn't quite full-grown...) Like everything else, shields are not all that easy as you'd think to use, and clearly take a bit of skill or practise to master!

I actually have much the same experience, though also with some re-enactment stuff (and stupid stuff with a few close mates. Machete scars on my fingers and all...) which is t
My main reason for being so hesitant - shields aren't designed to be permanent. They save your hide long enough for you to win, and buy a new one.

(Shields made of energy, by which I mean historical-style shaped shields made of forcefields or something as opposed to "shields" in the starship sense are occasionally used or sorts... Though the only thing I can bring to mind off the top of my head, is the Herosine Empire's Psiloi Gravitic Orb Scout, which is basically a floating ball of a droid about two foot wide, and has a shield only to it's fore, because of the power contraints. (Shielding all around would have made the defense mostly worthless for the same power output, so they installed emitters only to the front.)

That was also in the back of my mind. Could these small, mobile walls be technologically reinforced? We are dealing with Yes, because tech limits are obvious and minimal. I am ignoring whether it's cost effective, and trying to see whether it would be likely to protect a soldier rather than get him killed faster.

Well, there is that.*

Though there might be a bit of cultural in it as well - I vaguely recall reading/hearing (from entirely unsubstantiated sources) that Americans tend to read more phonetically, for some reason. (Which is why you guys spell colour and armour wrong¹.) It might even me an immediately local bias, given that there are at least two places names in my immediate area (well, immediately as far as US distances go...!) with non-phoenetic names (Derby itself "Darby" or in local parlance "Daaarby", and Crich ("Cr-eye-ch", and I've heard the latter pronounced wrong at least once on TV...)*

Also, I did hear the Naruto dub before I ever read the names, rendering my entire point moot, aside from a humourous anecdote on local placenames.

I can ramble nonsensically with the best of 'em...

Rambling is fun~

And aye. I'm pretty sure Americans read more phonetically. Those of us who can read, at any rate; 12th grade, at around 18 years, students can be divided into those who have been reading at "college level" for years, and those who don't know that then/than, or whether/weather are different words. You know, the ones who call other people "retarted", not realizing I'd have to have been pastry-ified in the fire. Place in order for it to happen again...

¹Yes, yes, you changed the spelling, but it was to make it more phonetically spelled. (Similar attempts have been made in the past on both sides of the pond. Nun ov them reely eva workt, tho...)

I am the last bloke who would argue with you about whether americans or the English get to decide what is and is not English. But I'm also the kind of bloke to be perfectly accommodating to the spoils of war and such. So I'm a pretty weird American.

My thoughts as a unicorn wizard are much the same. Magic does not just work because its magic. There is a certain value to having a miraclous occurence that transcends the conditions possible with magical aids available.... but this must be managed with the same utmost care from the point of view of the story.

Magic can be looked at in this regard based on understanding. I know that electricity is the flow of electrons from teeny tiny particles. And that this current acts like electricity. I know electricity can cause movement in physical objects, I can even from how. I know that adding a bunch of on/off gates to a circuit board allows for complicated circuitry, but at this level I start to lose cohesion. Between "electricity make copper open or close" and "this is the Internet" I am baffled.

But if you look closely, you see how it works. Basic basic functions, set up to be controlled by "key strokes". From there, a metacircuit can be set up that is controlled by keystrokes, and only executes when the master control is hit - that is, the command is "sent" by pressing enter.

Nowadays we have folks executing grand programs; robotics, video games, cellphones. And just as a master gamer can make the game behave beautifully, but doesn't necessarily have any idea how the game code works, a master program can design an elegant as all get-out game without understanding how hardware and. Circuitry and electricity work.

Payrolls know what video games are. Hedge wizards and charlatans can play a good game, and wizards can write, compile and execute their own programs. The good ones can even customize the hardware somewhat. When you get tithe point of understanding every layer of functionality, that's Archmage territory.

But circuitry is based on science. Programming isn't quite so much based on science, even though it is scientific.

Magic that is done at the level of "I don't know how it works, but it does" is just the result of over-achieving "Magus Colleges" removing the footwork. And I'm sure you've seen people come up with perfectly reasonable, logical, even functional rationales for why their computer behaves the way it does, even though with basic computer knowledge you know they are dead wrong.

Magic that's just magic means someone doesn't know why it works, just that it does. This ignorance doesn't make their art any less scientific, it just makes it more heuristic as such mages are likely to experiment and find things out, but not using due scientific process. And saying this isn't magic or isn't science is bunk, because computers are basically science AND magic; how by fire does a moving electron abstract upwards into an Xbox game? Magic is the best answer I can give you.

-

MLPFIM Card game design.

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Set up
In the beginning of each battle, each player draws 6 cards from their deck of 40 cards. *Then each player put pony cards with total levels no greater than 6.*

Game Play:
On a player’s turn, starting with the player with the lowest starting level total, the player draws a card and may put a card into play. Also on their turn, a player may choose Characters card in play and attempt to defeat another player’s Obstacle card. During an attempt, the player plays any number of Support cards from their hand to increase one or more of the Character’s Strength values. Characters can be used as Support cards at a weaker effect. The owner of the obstacle may play Counter cards to increase an Obstacle’s Strength. If the resulting Strength Value is greater than that of the obstacle, the player wins an Element. *Used Support Cards and Discards are discarded.
The game ends after one player wins 6 Elements, each other player has no Characters, or after the final remaining player’s 10th turn, the winner being the player who won the most Elements.

Types of Cards:
Character: Character Cards are used to defeat Obstacle Cards or as level 1 Support cards in a pinch. Each Character has a level between 0 and 6 and three Strength values: Mind, Body, and Heart.

Obstacles: Obstacle Cards are used to draw more cards or remove Characters from play. Obstacle cards have levels between 1 and 6 and three Strength values: Mind, Body, and Heart.

Support: *Support Cards are used to power up Character Cards.*

Counter: *Counter Cards are used to power up Obstacle Cards.

Design ideas:
There are 6 types of factions, one for each Pony.
Twilight Sparkle: Twilight decks will have powerful Support and Counter Cards but her Characters are weak for their level.*
Rarity: *Rarity decks powerful Counters that make their Obstacles hard to defeat.
Fluttershy: *Fluttershy decks will swarm the enemy with many Characters, allowing them to always have a strong Character of each Strength type in play.
Rainbow Dash: *Dash decks will have Character cards with Strengths higher than that expected at their level with the drawback of weak Counters.
Pinkie Pie: Pinkie decks have set themselves up for surprise victory of rounds.
Applejack: Applejack decks will have many ways to draw cards and reuse discarded cards.

Do me a favor, mate. Do a sloppy design of what each card looks like (basically "picture here, numbers here, power here, cost here" etc.) and a bunch of specific card texts, and I'll try and put some together and play test.

[Thanqol]

Oh, well, just... don't murder each other, then?"

"Don't worry, I don't believe in Death,"

*Control Light+Scrying+Transform Energy - launches telefrag deathray at SiuiS*

[Rebelhero]

RP too much? Nah. We don't want a bunch of posts in a row that are nothin' but RP, but you're doing fine.

Starry looks at Sky Rocket, her eyes widening. For the briefest instant she looks shocked, before her eyes unfocused and she stares past and through the other pony, bells chiming gently*

*nightscream nudges Skyrocket and nods over too Starry*
Looks like we have acquired an on looker. *winks*
You may wish to start running now. *looks into her unfocused eyes* Oh man, you did it this time Sky. She went blank.

First Starry was a filly correct? you have to reaquient me with her/him, i might not have been around or missed this pony coming into play.


Also bad memory is bad.

And to keep this pony. how about 1000 pony pictures?

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Ponies 1

ponies 2