Results 241 to 270 of 1465
Thread: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
-
2012-02-29, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
- Location
- Yes, that is true
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
*Exaggerated slap on the back*
I'm sure that gender will come to you eventually, in whatever form(s) it will.
I've read about schools that had unisex bathrooms. The idea was abandoned when sexual harassment, and even rape complaints came through. It's a shame that we've come so far as to not even respect the sanctity of the bathroom.
Any further comment on my part wouldn't be quite articulate today. (On that note, has anyone else ever felt... Depressed and not depressed at the same time? I dunno, I've just been unusually grouchy and it's bothering me. :/)
-
2012-02-29, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
- Location
- Yes, that is true
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
(For some reason, my last post seems to be showing in the "quotes" log but not on the page...)
*Exaggerated slap on the back*
I'm sure that gender will come to you eventually, in whatever form(s) it will.
I've read about schools that had unisex bathrooms. The idea was abandoned when sexual harassment, and even rape complaints came through. It's a shame that we've come so far as to not even respect the sanctity of the bathroom.
Any further comment on my part wouldn't be quite articulate today. (On that note, has anyone else ever felt... Depressed and not depressed at the same time? I dunno, I've just been unusually grouchy and it's bothering me. :/)
-
2012-02-29, 01:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
No, Kender. You get carried away when you essay-rant. It has nothing to do with something as ridiculous as perceived danger of rape. That's dumb.
Gender-segregated bathrooms are a comfortable & safe space for most people. I don't mean safe, like safe from physical harm: I mean in the sense of mental safety. I don't feel comfortable doing bathroom activities around women. Everybody I am ticking off in my head right now that I know in real life would feel as uncomfortable as me if the opposite gender could come in to their public bathroom safe space.
It's a serious, deeply ingrained, and quite frankly, naturalgendersex affinity. You can't just write it off like that.
My place of work -- which happens to be a very progressive University -- has gender-segregated bathrooms, plus single-stall unisex bathrooms for the very small minority who are uncomfortable with the former. I think that's a great solution.Last edited by Kneenibble; 2012-02-29 at 01:26 AM.
-
2012-02-29, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Gothenburg, Sweden
- Gender
-
2012-02-29, 01:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Bottom of a well
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
-
2012-02-29, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Aaand to disrupt the srs tone of my last post... I had to share this slice of absurdity from an online dating profile I just read. Listed as male but with a very female appearance in the photos.
I am not a tranny so dont think otherwise... I am a bottom... ;PLast edited by Kneenibble; 2012-02-29 at 01:51 AM.
-
2012-02-29, 01:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Bottom of a well
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
I am in love with George Takei.
He posted a great LGBT blurb related to dieting today on his facebook. You should read it.
-
2012-02-29, 02:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Yes, it is dumb. But it is one of the most common arguments I see against unisex bathrooms (and also against allowing trans people into their preferred bathrooms), so I don't think it's unfair to bring up.
I respect that you would be uncomfortable, and I certainly don't want to force people who are uncomfortable with unisex bathrooms to have to do their business in them, but I'm rather skeptical of your claim that it is a natural affinity. Do you have any studies to back that up? Have studies even been conducted on that sort of thing?Last edited by Nix Nihila; 2012-02-29 at 02:03 AM.
-
2012-02-29, 02:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Gothenburg, Sweden
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
I go in, do my business, wash my hands and leave. There could be an elephant in a pink tutu in the corner and I wouldn't care.
That's probably not literally true, but it sounds good.Avatar by CoffeeIncluded
Oooh, and that's a bad miss.
“Don't exercise your freedom of speech until you have exercised your freedom of thought.”
― Tim Fargo
-
2012-02-29, 02:13 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
I don't think I'd be any more uncomfortable with having a different gendered person in the same bathroom with me as I would with a same gendered person. That is to say, both of those things make me moderately uncomfortable. =P
Something to do with not wanting people to catch me in a vulnerable position, I suppose.Cobra Avatar by the lovely Miss Nobody.
-
2012-02-29, 02:18 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
I cannot imagine how one could study that kind of thing, so no: but the historical depth of the precedent is difficult to deny.
Bathroom activities are body activities -- specifically, genital-area activities; and activities around which we strange upright mammals already feel a degree of discomfort. Privacy is best; but when it is not available, as in public space washrooms: for the vast majority of people in whom sex and gender are congruent, that basic level of heterogenous sex kinship creates a safe space in which to do it. Hence, natural -- as in arising from nature.
I may be expressing myself poorly. Can you understand?Last edited by Kneenibble; 2012-02-29 at 02:18 AM.
-
2012-02-29, 02:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
I suspect it could be studied in the same way that other claims about whether a certain behavior is socially influenced or naturally arising are studied. Like the sort of studies which suggest that the perceived greater spatial intelligence of men is due to social conditioning rather than any inherent difference between men and women. Unfortunately, the exact methods of that sort of research are a bit unclear to me, as it's been a while since I've studied such things. I will make a mental note to read up on it and get back to you.
From a purely evolutionary standpoint, I can't see any reason why such behavior would arise either, but I am not a social scientist nor a evolutionary psychologist. (But dammit if I don't wish I could be. Alas, art keeps me too busy as it is.)Last edited by Nix Nihila; 2012-02-29 at 02:38 AM.
-
2012-02-29, 03:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
It is normal for humans to be coy of their bodies around members of opposite sex. There is no culture where coyness doesn't exist.
However, the manner in which it does exist is highly culturally dependent. For example, there are cultures where no clothes are worn - but the proper way for adults of different sexes to talk is back-to-back, to prevent leering.
Personally, I'm fine with unisex bathrooms, and even unisex changing rooms, showers and saunas. But I'd expect unisex bathrooms to not have urinals and have toilets in separate stalls with doors.
I actually find it somewhat ridiculous that workplaces are by law mandated to have separate toilets for men and women... when both are identical, with locked doors, and are meant to be used by one person at a time anyhow."It's the fate of all things under the sky,
to grow old and wither and die."
-
2012-02-29, 05:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
I strongly suspect that your discomfort is a learned response, Kneenibble. I imagine that if you'd grown up with unisex bathrooms as the norm, you wouldnt feel strange about it in the slightest.
Quotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
-
2012-02-29, 05:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2010
- Location
- Dublin, Ireland
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Let's defend us together!
As far as I can tell, it really is just a matter of scale. I would also be inclined to say that all mountains are made of rock, while it is possible (like with drumlins) to have hills made of sediment.
Oh, by the way, I checked into the thing about "safe days" for heteronormative sex. Apparently, if you track fertility right (which involves lots of paying attention and taking an accurate temperature at exactly the same time every day), it's almost as safe as condoms. The trick is doing it right, because everyone's different, and people who are menstruating are all on different cycles.
Hear hear.
Please don't call what I say dumb, when I'm responding to a prevailing opinion. I have literally never heard the argument "We should have gender-segregated restrooms because some people are inherently and drastically uncomfortable with eliminating waste around members of the opposite gender, but absolutely fine around members of the same gender." before. It has always, always, always been "Because that's how it is." or "To protect women from men."
I am wildly uncomfortable with eliminating waste around anyone at all (I'm one of those people who can't talk on the toilet), but that's why we have cubicles, rather than just a room full of toilets. And I would be equally uncomfortable, if someone walked into my cubicle, if they were a man or a woman.
But you and me aside, why can't the solution be unisex bathrooms, with some single ones, for people who are very uncomfortable with communal bathrooms for any reason at all?
Cheerfairy, Kenderwoman and Geologist by Succubus, Feminist Geomancer by Astrella, Kender Wizard by me
-
2012-02-29, 06:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
That sounds pretty interesting. I suppose I just haven't run into enough anime fans since high school to judge. Among the gamers here, several are genderqueer/trans/bi/&c.
Welcome back!
And I'm terribly sorry to hear about your revelation. By which I mean, good luck with that, and I hope it works out for you however you decide to act on those feelings.
If there were an elephant in the corner, pink tutu or not, I think I'd notice. Most bathrooms aren't all that big. Whether I'd care or just grumble about the freshmen leaving their crap in the bathroom like I usually do is another matter.
Also, I'd like to thank you for washing your hands after you do your business. Living in a freshman boys' dorm, one comes to appreciate those people with good hygiene.
I can't really understand. Isn't the stall privacy enough? I've comfortably done my business with a girl in the next stall. I respect that it's uncomfortable for you, but I don't really get why.
Is it really? I strongly suspect that if I hadn't grown up around all these silly humans, I wouldn't have an issue with nudity. But then, I'm not exactly normal anyway.
As for the gendered one-person restrooms--yes, that's ridiculous. Although when given the option I usually use the women's room in that case, because it's often cleaner. I think last time I went by the gendered one-person restrooms in the dining hall, the toilet in the men's room had urine on the seat and floor, while the toilet in the women's room only had a hair on the seat. I'd much rather touch a hair than drop trow in a puddle of urine.Jude P.
-
2012-02-29, 06:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Originally Posted by on Dwarf Fortress succession gamesOriginally Posted by Dwarf Fortress 0.40.01 bugs
-
2012-02-29, 06:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Quotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
-
2012-02-29, 06:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
*joins fistbumping and mutual defense*
As far as I can tell, it really is just a matter of scale. I would also be inclined to say that all mountains are made of rock, while it is possible (like with drumlins) to have hills made of sediment.
Oh, by the way, I checked into the thing about "safe days" for heteronormative sex. Apparently, if you track fertility right (which involves lots of paying attention and taking an accurate temperature at exactly the same time every day), it's almost as safe as condoms. The trick is doing it right, because everyone's different, and people who are menstruating are all on different cycles.
So basically, barely any women will actually know when their safe days are.
Please don't call what I say dumb, when I'm responding to a prevailing opinion. I have literally never heard the argument "We should have gender-segregated restrooms because some people are inherently and drastically uncomfortable with eliminating waste around members of the opposite gender, but absolutely fine around members of the same gender." before. It has always, always, always been "Because that's how it is." or "To protect women from men."
I am wildly uncomfortable with eliminating waste around anyone at all (I'm one of those people who can't talk on the toilet), but that's why we have cubicles, rather than just a room full of toilets. And I would be equally uncomfortable, if someone walked into my cubicle, if they were a man or a woman.
But you and me aside, why can't the solution be unisex bathrooms, with some single ones, for people who are very uncomfortable with communal bathrooms for any reason at all?
As for why that's not a viable solution, I'd guess the answer is Capitalism. One big unisex restroom is cheaper than two small gendered ones, but gets more complaints and potentially lawsuits. Having the couple of single ones also costs more.
How do they even do that? I have trouble using urinals even in the few single-person restrooms that have locking doors and a urinal as well as a toilet. They just have such a strong association with that feeling of exposure.
My ideal unisex restrooms would not have urinals, just lots and lots of stalls. And the stalls would be unable to open until the toilet is flushed and the seat is down, and there would be some kind of system to make sure people wash their hands. (Even in the girls' bathrooms here I often hear people walk out without washing their hands. What the heck.)
edit:
Really? I always thought it was eyes front at at all times, but talking is okay. Maybe it depends on the area.Last edited by noparlpf; 2012-02-29 at 06:24 AM.
Jude P.
-
2012-02-29, 06:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2011
- Location
- France
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Originally Posted by on Dwarf Fortress succession gamesOriginally Posted by Dwarf Fortress 0.40.01 bugs
-
2012-02-29, 06:45 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
-
2012-02-29, 07:10 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
It happens occasionally. It's weird as all get-out, though.
I read an Asimov story a while ago, where over hundreds of years, it had become absolutely taboo to speak in the men's bathroom, or even to acknowledge the existence of any other people in there.Quotebox
Avatar by Rain Dragon
Wish building characters for D&D 3.5 was simpler? Try HeroForge Anew! An Excel-based, highly automated character builder. v7.4 now out!
-
2012-02-29, 07:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
"Elephant trunks should be used for elephant things only. Nothing else."
Thank you Geomancer for the Death avatar.
My lets plays:
Alien vs Predator: marine chapter - Completed
Singularity - Canceled
-
2012-02-29, 07:12 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2011
- Gender
-
2012-02-29, 08:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- UK
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
-
2012-02-29, 08:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
- Location
- Yes, that is true
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
We shall be shields by which the patriarchy gets slapped right on the freaking chin.
See, that would have sounded so much cooler if I had the aviators and really big hat I've been wanting...
I've never gotten how people can do that.
I can't just from knowing that someone has a clear line of sight to any part of my body other than my face, but I've never been quite sure why.
Huh. Guess I'm ahead of my time, then.
-
2012-02-29, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
-
2012-02-29, 09:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Gothenburg, Sweden
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Spoiler
Highly relevant for this thread. Print it, take it home and practice.Avatar by CoffeeIncluded
Oooh, and that's a bad miss.
“Don't exercise your freedom of speech until you have exercised your freedom of thought.”
― Tim Fargo
-
2012-02-29, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2011
- Location
- Växjö, Sweden
- Gender
Re: LGBTAitP - Part 21: BLACKJACK!
Something gender-related I want out of my chest:
SpoilerWhen I was a kid, 5 or 6 years old, I had issues with infections in my nether parts. My mother had to, well, take care of that, and it hurt. I can almost feel the sting when I remember that episode of my life.
Anyway, once I said I wanted to be a girl, so I wouldn't have those infections (and the pain). Immediately, both my mother and my (elder) sister told me that I shouldn't want to be a girl, that girls have far worse problems with their nether parts (at least as far as hygiene goes). I'm not sure, but I think they said that boys can stand peeing as well.
I know they meant well, and they technically were right about the hygiene stuff, but it still seems so weird in hindsight. Like being a girl or wanting to be a girl would be that terrible.
Yay! (Also: don't kill yourself.)
So? It's not like LGB would start needing treatment because they hang around with people who does. I mean, surely they have no issues with people with disabilities, generally speaking (I hope).
My brain hurts.
The show really is hero-worship of a jerk, and rationalization of jerky behaviour. The writers really have no or little clue how the medical profession works. People skills are needed for a reason.
The earlier seasons of Scrubs were much better. Perry Cox may be a jerk too, but he's a different type of jerk, and he cares about his patients.
Some tangents: I think a big problem with society / subgroups is as well that they tend to present only one narrative as valid. The whole study - get a job - marry & and settle down is pretty prevalent, but it shows up in a lot of places. I can think of gatekeeping in relation to trans* people and medical care. (The whole, having to be straight, presenting very feminine etc. to be able to transition.) Other things I can think of is femme erasure in lesbian circles, gold star lesbians (aka lesbians who haven't been in contact with the vile male member), feminism being a mainly cis, white, upperclass women thing (more in the early days then now) leading to womanist segregation and such. Which is a shame, because more narratives just give you more angles to look at issues. (Which is also why it annoys me so much when people's stories / experiences aren't seen as valid; the whole "queerer / more trans than thou" thing; it's basically people telling other people that their theories are more important than people's experiences.)
That's the really unfortunate part about most MRA's; there are specific issues regarding men that need to be addressed but a lot of them get very knee-jerky and are dealing with a whole load of other -isms themselves.
I personally think that one of the reasons for these cliques are that when controversial topics are discussed, it so often gets heated and the debaters refuse to "take in" what the other side is saying and/or *why* the other side is saying that, which hardly leads to mutual understanding. So both end up hiding in their "safe" places and talk with the rest of their "mutual admiration clubs".
Incidentally, there are talks about allowing single women to get insemination in Sweden, and obviously, there are men talking about how discriminating this is to men. I can understand the logic behind that, and I guess allowing single men to have surrogate mothers could be a solution to that. At the same time, it all comes down to the fact cis males can't bear children. It's *unfair*, but if you have issue with that, the only solution is to pay science and hope it will fix that mistake ofMotherParent Nature.
Exactly, that's why the whole argument annoys me so much when it's brought up in "bathroom bills"; if someone is out to cause harm, they won't let a symbol stop them. And off course the hurtful side-effect of painting trans* people as sexual predators. :s
I dunno, I feel that since trans persons are generally even more persecuted than cis women, it's very unlikely they would try to harass cis women, in restrooms or other places.
BTW, if I was a heteronormative cis woman, I would be pleased if "some men wants to be women", rather than being threatened by it. But that's childish logic anyway.
Dysphoria:
SpoilerHaving a really bad bout of it again, skipped out on class today cause I felt really bad; been really nervous and panicky. I even cut myself in my arm earlier. Nothing severe, but still, it scares me. D: I'm feeling pretty okay right now though.
So, since I'm still too nervous to go to stores alone, I was poking online to order clothes; was thinking of getting a skirt and leggings / kneesocks and a matching top, but I don't know much about fashion. :< Any thoughts?SpoilerDon't do that again!
I'm so sorry you have to live through that.
*Hugs*
I like leggings, but kneesocks look nice too. :3
I read that story too. I'm pretty sure it was The Caves of Steel. Elijah Baley (the protagonist) also expressed jealousy at women who, in his opinion, have it easier when going to public restrooms, since they are allowed (in not encouraged) to talk with each other while being in those.Viking/Paladin by Astrella
Gender Bender by Geomancer.
In love with Skeppio.
Contact me:
-
2012-02-29, 10:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- UK
- Gender