Results 1 to 10 of 10
Thread: Possible natural spell balancer
-
2012-04-25, 07:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
- Location
- In the internet
Possible natural spell balancer
We've all heard of the various shenanigans Druids can pull with wild shape and natural spell(to the point many call it a class feature) as what makes the druid so powerful, I was wondering would the druid be more "balanced" if natural spell was a metamagic feat? It would still allow druids casting in wild shape but it wouldn't let them spam their highest-level spells as a dire bear.
Would this work? What adjustment do you think it should have?(+1,+2,etc)Sorry for my absence, but had a creative block for the past while.
SpoilerThere are countless ingredients that make up the human body and mind, like all the components that make up me as an individual with my own personality. Sure, I have a face and voice to distinguish myself from others, but my thoughts and memories are unique only to me, and I carry a sense of my own destiny.
The Zinc Saucier optimisation challenge, now with double prize money! Eternal Tower Campaign setting (WIP)
-
2012-04-25, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Gender
Re: Possible natural spell balancer
This might well improve the situation noticeably, although I doubt it would even drop them to Tier 2. Still, any little bit helps.
+1, I suspect; it's basically Still+Silent with an additional restriction (must be using special class feature) and fewer second-order advantages (not actually stilled, so grapple or paralysis prevents; not actually silent, so silence prevents and it breaks stealth). +2 is possible, but seems a little excessive -- just because druids are in fact overpowered is not a good excuse for overnerfing a specific aspect of that power. Balance in all things.Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
-
2012-04-26, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Location
- Not too hot, not too cold
- Gender
While it isn't as good as still and silent, but it isn't only half as good. It allows casting in wild shape. Wild shape was supposedly balanced by not allowing casting...
+1 is too weak, and +2 is too strong, and there isn't a +1½.
How about splitting it into two metamagic feats?
Natural Spell I covers 1st-4th level spells, level adjustment +1
Natural Spell II covers 5th-7th level spells, level adjustment +1
8th and 9th can't be cast in wild shape.
I know folks hate a feat tax...
-
2012-04-26, 07:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Texas, America
- Gender
Re: Possible natural spell balancer
I changed natural spell once along time ago;
Natural Spell [Metamagic]
Benefit: You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while polymorphed. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell.
You can also use any material component or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while polymorphed unless that form is normally capable of speech. A natural spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.
Keep in mind we home brewed druids so that they didn't get wild shape at all, but could opt to either spontaneously convert spells into either summon animals 1-9, poly-morphing/wild shapes, cures 1-9 or inflicts 1-9. Also druids who picked the Wild Shape spell casting tree got natural spell as a bonus feat at level 5.
-
2012-04-26, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
Re: Possible natural spell balancer
I think this would work better to balance out Natural Spell:
Natural Spell (Metamagic)
You may cast spells without a humanoid physiology.
Benefits: You may prepare a spell so that it may be cast when using wildshape. This spell is prepared as a spell of 2 levels higher, or 1 level higher when prepared with an additional metamagic.
Normally: You can not cast spells while wildshapedMy Homebrew: found here.
When you Absolutely, Positively, Gotta Drop some Huge rocks, Accept NO Substitutes
PM Me if you would like a table from my homebrew reconstructed.
Drow avatar @ myself
-
2012-04-26, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Possible natural spell balancer
The first step is probably to figure out which part of natural spell is the "broken" part. Is it the ability to buff your animal form? (If so, perhaps it makes more sense to depower druid buffs, and natural spell will be weakened as a side effect.) Is it the ability to use animal form for defense while casting? (If so, perhaps you want to make it harder to combine animal form with normal defenses.) Is it the ability to switch between physical and magical attacks without needing a standard action, and switching unlimited times a day? (I doubt it, as you're probably not going to want to switch that much so often anyway.) Is it the ability to attack with natural weapons in the same round you cast a (nonquickened) spell? (If so, I want to know how you pull that off.) Is it something else? (If so, what?)
-
2012-04-26, 11:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
- Location
- In the internet
Re: Possible natural spell balancer
Thanks for the feedback everyone.
@Yitzi:It's "broken" because it allows you to do all those things, I don't really think its broken but it's so powerful players would pretty much never not take it, I just wanted to tone it down to where it's still a good choice but not that good a choice, if you know what I mean.
@straybow: good point about the level adjustment costs, mind you I think what toapat suggested is probably the closest you can get to a +1 1/2
@tuggyne: I'm not trying to drop them to tier 2, I just wanted to make it so they can't cast 9thlv spells while tanking like a fighter quite as easily
@toapat&Jane_Smith: Thanks for the suggestions on how to do itSorry for my absence, but had a creative block for the past while.
SpoilerThere are countless ingredients that make up the human body and mind, like all the components that make up me as an individual with my own personality. Sure, I have a face and voice to distinguish myself from others, but my thoughts and memories are unique only to me, and I carry a sense of my own destiny.
The Zinc Saucier optimisation challenge, now with double prize money! Eternal Tower Campaign setting (WIP)
-
2012-04-27, 12:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Possible natural spell balancer
Actually would this allow Wildshape being only +1:
The spell can ONLY be cast when you are in Wildshape, and never otherwise.
Then again Wildshape is wildly regarded as being superior to normal forms at higher levels, and there would be a too short of a duration at lower levels...
Hmm..sounds like a bad idea already
-
2012-04-27, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
Re: Possible natural spell balancer
The question is which ones are worth more than a single feat; they're the ones that need to be depowered. (If each one isn't worth more than a feat but together they are, a good approach might be to depower some of them extremely, and let them back via other feats.)
I just wanted to tone it down to where it's still a good choice but not that good a choice, if you know what I mean.
@tuggyne: I'm not trying to drop them to tier 2, I just wanted to make it so they can't cast 9thlv spells while tanking like a fighter quite as easily
-
2012-04-27, 08:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Vienna, Austria
- Gender