OOTS #859 - The Discussion Thread

[Serafina]

Wow.

The major advantage of this is actually the same as that of the Smoke Stick - it prevents communication and coordination between the Linear Guild. Even if a few people aren't affected (such as Tarquin), the rest is still deafened. The smoke stick effectively blinds them regardless of the effects of the spell. Now they can't properly work together, especially since they're not a close team to start with!
Add Sabine getting banished (and possibly Quar as well) and the Mummies being destroyed and this is one hell of an opening salvo.

[Psyren]

ETA: Or not. It allows a will save. Given this is OOTS , assume Sabine makes a natural 20 .

Hey now, you don't know that. Being gone for a day would be a great way to set back the LG without removing Sabine from the story entirely.

[Bulldog Psion]

It's strange, but this is the first time I've actually been excited to see what happens next for years, rather than having a mildly masochistic interest in how the Order is going to get kicked around next episode.

Bravo, bravo!!!

[irenicObserver]

Time to google "Holy". Nice update. :D

I would hazard a guess that it was Holy Word.

[Finagle]

Actually, no, that would be "me neither." But "me too" works as well.

Neither is basically not + either put together. But how does "me too" work? Z'zdtri is agreeing with the negative statement "I can't see". Neither would be inappropriate because there's already a "not" in the sentence, and neither already contains "not". In either the pair (do, neither) or the pair (don't, either), there must be one and only one 'n' (not).

I hate Mary. I hate her too. Me too. So do I. <-- "I hate" is affirmative.
I don't like Mary. I don't like her either. Me neither. Neither do I. <--- "I don't like" is negative
I hope she won't complain. I hope so too. Me too. So do I. <--- "I hope" is affirmative. You are referring to "I hope".
I hope she won't complain. I hope her father won't complain either. <---- This is the same as the one just above, but here you are referring to "won't complain", which is negative.
I don't think she will complain. I don't think so either. Me neither. Neither do I. <--- "don't think" is negative.
Link

[silvadel]

Well that trap avoided Qarr being dismissed AND made it not reveal Malack's alignment -- well played.

[Agnostik]

The last panel pretty much shows that unlike Redcloak and that nameless Azurite High Priest, Durkon knows how to make Cleric spells flashy.

[Gift Jeraff]

Neither is basically not + either put together. But how does "me too" work? Z'zdtri is agreeing with the negative statement "I can't see". Neither would be inappropriate because there's already a "not" in the sentence, and neither already contains "not". In either the pair (do, neither) or the pair (don't, either), there must be one and only one 'n' (not).

I hate Mary. I hate her too. Me too. So do I. <-- "I hate" is affirmative.
I don't like Mary. I don't like her either. Me neither. Neither do I. <--- "I don't like" is negative
I hope she won't complain. I hope so too. Me too. So do I. <--- "I hope" is affirmative. You are referring to "I hope".
I hope she won't complain. I hope her father won't complain either. <---- This is the same as the one just above, but here you are referring to "won't complain", which is negative.
I don't think she will complain. I don't think so either. Me neither. Neither do I. <--- "don't think" is negative.
Link

People aren't robots. People talk like people. Not robots.

[Ninja Dragon]

This is what happens when you let Nale do the planning. In a battle of wits against Roy.

[Shmuel]

Neither is basically not + either put together.

Correct. "Me neither" = "I cannot either." "Me either" is just gibberish.

Z'zdtri is agreeing with the negative statement "I can't see". Neither would be inappropriate because there's already a "not" in the sentence, and neither already contains "not". In either the pair (do, neither) or the pair (don't, either), there must be one and only one 'n' (not).

They are two different sentences. Each requires its own negation.

(The person you quoted actually backs me up on this. You may want to go read it again.)

But how does "me too" work?

By being understood. Colloquial English doesn't always follow the rules, and that's okay.

(If it makes you feel any better, "I can't see" is construed here as "I am unable to see," to which "me too" is a reasonable response.)

[PureIrony]

This is getting good. I particularly can't wait to see how they plan to incapacitate Tarquin before moving in.

My estimate is the above + Sabine being banished.

I'm almost certain she will be. Getting sent back to her home plane would give her a chance to chat with the Fiends about her loyalties, and maybe get a bit more cryptic foreshadowing in.

[Essex]

I wonder if the Holy Word spell was chosen specifically because most of the Linear Guild have level adjustments, thereby making the spell a lot more likely to work on them.

If you assume that the core of the Linear Guild are all of comparable character levels to their OOtS counterparts, that would put the Drow at -2 HD due to level adjustment, possibly leading to paralysis for a minimum of one minute. Given the way that Zz'dtri is tilted back with a panicked look in the last panel, this may be a sign of falling off balance due to paralysis.

The templated Kobold is also almost certainly going down for the count due to a huge level adjustment from those wings.

As a Succubus has a whopping +6 LA, Sabine likely has a REALLY bad Will save (especially as her actual class levels are likely as a slow Will progression Rogue). Adding in the -4 penalty from the spell and she is almost certainly gone for the next 24 hours.

Of course, given the way that Durkon and Malik seem to respect each other, I wonder if Malik had to be protected from the spell by the trap wall in order for Durkon to agree to using that spell on the rest of the party.

The only immediate problem is Tarquin, whose ability to solo most of the OoTS without difficulty suggests that he is well above them in level, and thus likely immune to the spell's effects.

[Bulldog Psion]

The last panel pretty much shows that unlike Redcloak and that nameless Azurite High Priest, Durkon knows how to make Cleric spells flashy.

One of the advantages of worshipping Thor, in addition to all the sacred beer, that is.

[Simons Mith]

I have a holier word than 'holy'. Especially for a cleric of Thor: 'Beer'. Would have meant the unholy word was 'lager'.

(Probably ninja'd. Haven't read all the thread yet.)

[ThePhantasm]

Also, I love how Tarquin is pretty much mocking Nale in the midst of this chaos.

[Gift Jeraff]

This is what happens when you let Nale do the planning. In a battle of wits against Roy.

Hey, he completely outsmarted him in Cliffport.

[Stegyre]

Of course, given the way that Durkon and Malik seem to respect each other, I wonder if Malik had to be protected from the spell by the trap wall in order for Durkon to agree to using that spell on the rest of the party.

No. OotS is not yet aware of Malik's and Tarquin's presence in the LG, so it's pretty certain that was not a consideration.

A more important consideration is Tarquin's promise to Malik to leave Durkon to him (Malik).

[Edhelras]

I wonder if the Holy Word spell was chosen specifically because most of the Linear Guild have level adjustments, thereby making the spell a lot more likely to work on them.

Oh, I kinda thought the ECL was what counted, not the level from classes? So that a lvl 14 character with ECL+2 would count as lvl 16, for the purpose of this spell? But I was unsure about it.

[weeping eagle]

But how does "me too" work?

"I, too, cannot see." "Me too" is a common substitution for "I too". Or if you like, read it as "That is true for me, too."

For the record, I vote for "Nor I."

[Bulldog Psion]

"I, too, cannot see." "Me too" is a common substitution for "I too". Or if you like, read it as "That is true for me, too."

For the record, I vote for "Nor I."

"Nor I" would fit right in with the dark elf's personality, too.

[Essex]

Oh, I kinda thought the ECL was what counted, not the level from classes? So that a lvl 14 character with ECL+2 would count as lvl 16, for the purpose of this spell? But I was unsure about it.

Nope. The spell specifically states that it is based on Hit Dice. Neither CR nor ECL matter. That makes the spell lousy for fighting high HD monsters with party appropriate CRs, but great for going up against members of theoretically playable races.

[Douglas]

Oh, I kinda thought the ECL was what counted, not the level from classes? So that a lvl 14 character with ECL+2 would count as lvl 16, for the purpose of this spell? But I was unsure about it.

ECL counts for XP, expected character wealth, and what level party you're "supposed to be" in. Nothing else.

[Gift Jeraff]

I wonder what Blasphemy/Dictum/Word of Chaos would look like?

Blasphemy
Speech Balloon: Something you'd see on a metal band t-shirt.
Effect: Evil tendtrils

Word of Chaos
Speech Balloon: Random each time, so you'd get something like ¢#@0$
Effect: Trippy and distorted

Dictum
Speech Balloon: 01000100 01101001 01100011 01110100 01110101 01101101
Effect: I can't think of anything here

[Clovis]

Ouch. Looks like it's time for Durkon's 'posthumous return' to the Dwarven lands.

[Finagle]

By being understood. Colloquial English doesn't always follow the rules, and that's okay.

What is this "English" you speak of? I have never heard of it before.

Besides, think about how dull life would be without those wacky grammar nazis? The author has shown himself able to use semicolons correctly; but baffling usage errors creep in far too often. He even makes grammar jokes. Live by the sword, die by the sword. It's the principal of the thing.

EDIT: Hey! I just noticed that principle is now used in that comic instead of the original principal. Hurrah!

[JSSheridan]

I wonder if the Holy Word spell was chosen specifically because most of the Linear Guild have level adjustments, thereby making the spell a lot more likely to work on them.

: Typical. The dwarf casts one spell and bypasses the drow's spell resistance.

[Finagle]

: Typical. The dwarf casts one spell and bypasses the drow's spell resistance.

Applause...

[Psyren]

Well that trap avoided Qarr being dismissed AND made it not reveal Malack's alignment -- well played.

I doubt Malack is Good, which means the Word wouldn't have revealed much.

As far as Durkon dying, I predict that either Malack or Team Evil will be the cause, so he should be fine where he's at for the moment.

[GSFB]

We don't know for sure that affected characters are equal or lower level than Durkon, because we don't know what, if any, feats or magic items may be boosting Durkon's effective caster level. So with that in mind, how high could Durkon boost his CL for this? Assume he has every possible way to increase it.

[Sutremaine]

Of course, given the way that Durkon and Malik seem to respect each other, I wonder if Malik had to be protected from the spell by the trap wall in order for Durkon to agree to using that spell on the rest of the party.

For that to be true he'd need to know what each trap did (possible), and also have some backup spell (which would also have to be 'just the spell for that') in case Malack walked beyond the door's space or in case Sabine didn't accidently trigger the door (I assume that's the trap her tail triggered).