Magic: The Gathering Thread XIV: Instant Annoying, Just Add Hexproof

[Litewarior]

Splash green for your own Thragtusks?

Honestly, Thragtusk is extremely dominant in standard right now, the only decks that don't run them are Zombies and Red Deck Wins, pretty much every other deck, control, midrange, G/W aggro, and combo run it.

here is an article on Thragtusk and possible ways to combat it, including Slaughter Games.

[Togath]

Generally $25 or so. If they have really valuable cards in them, they can go for $30 or more, but the Rakdos one is petty universally sold at $25.

I'll keep my eyes out for the rakdos one then

[tgva8889]

What does one do to stop oneself from wanting to play at least half a dozen-a dozen different commander decks, especially when one already has two or three perfectly good ones?*


*I freaking love my Elesh Norn commander deck. Love it, love it, love it. Just needs a few edits when I have the time before going to play commander at a local place on the 13th.

My solution is to make a deck list, then get lazy and realize if I want to play the deck, I have to actually get all the cards and put them together into a 99-card pile with 1 card set aside. That usually stops me. I'm also lazy and content with my 5-6 other decks and the 3-4 I lend to my brother.

[9mm]

so got bored and made a naya deck, however it currently mostly just a mass of creatures; and while I'm for the most part happy with the suite, I want to cut the numbers down so I can have room for things like removal and reach.

4 Silverblade Paladin
4 Serra Angel
4 Tenement Crasher
4 Garruk's Packleader
4 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Hamletback Goliath
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Arbor Elf
4 Rancor
4 Farseek
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Plains

what cuts would you recommend and what removal/reach should I add?

[Fable Wright]

so got bored and made a naya deck, however it currently mostly just a mass of creatures; and while I'm for the most part happy with the suite, I want to cut the numbers down so I can have room for things like removal and reach.

-snip-

what cuts would you recommend and what removal/reach should I add?

Some of the high drops should probably go, like one or two (or more) Packleaders and Goliaths. I personally dislike Tenement Crasher, as there are better cards to play, and cutting some of them might help.

What you should add is Pillar of Flames and either Brimstone Volley or Searing Spear. They both clear blockers, and both can be used as reach.

[Sinfonian]

What you should add is Pillar of Flames and either Brimstone Volley or Searing Spear. They both clear blockers, and both can be used as reach.

I agree wholeheartedly. I should add though, that the number of Pillars vs other options should be influenced by the metagame you play against. If you're expecting a lot of Zombies, then you'll want to go heavier on Pillar.

[Lord Seth]

Vintage, like Extended and Commander, wasn't included due to not having enough tournaments in that format. I have seen more Commander tournaments (though I dislike the competitiveness that brings out in a fun format) than Vintage tournaments. It is the most expensive format to get into, if you take all of them into account. Legacy is the most expensive mainstream format.

But you didn't say that. You said the most expensive format.

[tonberrian]

I need more good goblins, so I can build Krenko, Mob Boss Commander and not be terrible.

[tgva8889]

But you didn't say that. You said the most expensive format.

Technically, I think Vintage is less expensive to get into than Powered Cube, since you need 1 copy of literally all the best and (therefore) most expensive cards in Magic ever. I haven't done the math, but I imagine if you built a Powered Cube it would be worth more than the average Vintage deck, even taking into account full playsets of duals in Vintage.

It's entirely possible that Vintage might actually be less difficult to get into, because the banned list rarely changes. So once you have a Vintage deck, it is probably going to be legal literally forever, and as far as I know the Vintage meta doesn't change that often, so if you make a Tier 1 deck it is likely to remain competitive for the long haul. Legacy I know changes pretty consistently, at least from what I've seen. That may be because of the SCG Series. In any case, to remain competitive in Legacy you need to change your lists (and possibly your deck choice) pretty often, which can get expensive if you don't have friends with cards. I feel like Legacy changes way more than Vintage does in this respect, though I'm sure the release of cards like Griselbrand affects Vintage as well.

Basically, the formats are probably somewhat comparable if you perform analysis along a long enough time period, but if you are starting from nothing and buying exactly one deck in the format, Vintage is probably more expensive since that deck will probably cost more than a Legacy deck in just 7 or 8 cards.

I need more good goblins, so I can build Krenko, Mob Boss Commander and not be terrible.

Actually, depending on what you're trying to do, you can do it with only a single non-Krenko Goblin. Check out the list near the bottom of this article.

[Lord Seth]

Technically, I think Vintage is less expensive to get into than Powered Cube, since you need 1 copy of literally all the best and (therefore) most expensive cards in Magic ever. I haven't done the math, but I imagine if you built a Powered Cube it would be worth more than the average Vintage deck, even taking into account full playsets of duals in Vintage.

Powered Cube isn't an official format. Theoretically you could make up a format that requires 4 of each Power 9 and say that's the most expensive format, but it's not an actual format.

It's entirely possible that Vintage might actually be less difficult to get into, because the banned list rarely changes. So once you have a Vintage deck, it is probably going to be legal literally forever, and as far as I know the Vintage meta doesn't change that often, so if you make a Tier 1 deck it is likely to remain competitive for the long haul. Legacy I know changes pretty consistently, at least from what I've seen. That may be because of the SCG Series.

You'd need to explain what you mean by "changes pretty consistently." If you're referring to the fact you see different decks in the top 8, that's because there's a lot of different decks in the format. There's a lot of competitive decks. Maybe only 5-10 can be considered Tier 1, but a Tier 2 deck can definitely take home the prize. A few weeks ago 12-Post had a 2nd place finish at an SCG Legacy Open, and I didn't even think that deck was still a thing until then. The competitive decks don't change that much in Legacy. Yes, some do fall out of favor and sometimes new decks come in, but for the most part the current decks are just the decks there were years ago with newer cards added, like Canadian Threshold's transformation into RUG Delver. Actually, it wouldn't even cost much to change a 2009 Canadian Threshold deck into a 2012 RUG Delver, because the biggest difference between the two is that you now play 4x Delver of Secrets and have more options in what your fetchlands are. All the potential new cards for the deck are pretty cheap to get because they tend not to have the availability problems of the old cards.

In any case, to remain competitive in Legacy you need to change your lists (and possibly your deck choice) pretty often, which can get expensive if you don't have friends with cards.

Not really. If you're changing your list, the differences usually aren't really that expensive because the incoming cards are new cards, which, with the exception of something like Jace, the Mind Sculptor, are generally reasonably cheap, especially once they rotate out of Standard. See my RUG Delver example.

Changing a deck can be more expensive, and admittedly is required in some cases. However, let's actually take a look at costs here. The deck that won the most recent Vintage Championship cost a little over $7,000 (I'm going by TCGPlayer's "Low" price). For that amount of money you can buy a playset of EVERY dual, EVERY fetchland, Force of Will, Wasteland, and still have about $3,000 left to buy the other stuff you need.

And you don't need to do it "pretty often." That kind of thing is mostly just for the realm of the really top players, you know, the ones whose names you see repeatedly in Top 8's. And even they tend to stick to a limited number of decks they play because if you're constantly switching your deck, it means you're playing with something you have less experience with and are going to be doing more poorly with.

If you're switching decks like a maniac then maybe Legacy would be eventually more expensive, but even then after a while you'd end up with such a solid base that it'd become much less expensive to change decks because they share cards. Eventually you'll be building up all the duals and fetchlands and the other cards that are shared between decks. Going from Show and Tell to RUG Delver is going to be a lot cheaper than going straight to RUG Delver, for example, as you'll already have the Volcanic Islands and a fair number of the fetchlands. Unless you're trading/selling your cards for new ones, in which case the point is moot anyway.

[Eldariel]

so got bored and made a naya deck, however it currently mostly just a mass of creatures; and while I'm for the most part happy with the suite, I want to cut the numbers down so I can have room for things like removal and reach.

4 Silverblade Paladin
4 Serra Angel
4 Tenement Crasher
4 Garruk's Packleader
4 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Hamletback Goliath
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Arbor Elf
4 Rancor
4 Farseek
4 Rootbound Crag
4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
3 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Plains

what cuts would you recommend and what removal/reach should I add?

This deck really feels like it just lacks a gameplan. Serra Angel (e.g. Baneslayer Angel costs the same and...yeah), Hamletback Goliath (way too expensive for a body with no useful effects) and Tenement Crasher (a small body for its cost and does nothing) are also kinda low on the powerscale far as constructed goes.

Soulbond creatures would really appreciate some Hexproof creatures to safely pump; considered Sigarda, Host of Herons? Mana Elves also open you up to Wraths which are kinda abundant right now though there's not much you can do about that. You need some card advantage effects later to make up for those; Thragtusk and Angel of Serenity are the strongest green-white options for that currently (Packleader can of course do some work if you can chain up stuff after it) though admittedly they're of course kinda cash heavy.

Planeswalkers that play into the beatdown gameplan like Garruk Relentless can also work to this effect since neither Supreme Verdict nor Terminus actually hit 'em. I'd expect you might need Centaur Healers against faster decks too; Silverblade Paladin is your only early non-acceleration drop (indeed, the only thing you can accelerate into on turn 2) and definitely not the kind of card you want to play turn 2-3 (since you need something big to Soulbond).


Your choice of utility is more complex; you probably need an Oblivion Ring or two as an all-purpose answer but you don't probably want too many since Ray of Revelation is such a beating otherwise. Selesnya Charm isn't the worst thing ever though the extra power needed for it to act as removal compared to Reprisal is a bit annoying. It makes creatures to Soulbond with in a pinch and acts as a decent removal and occasionally even a combat trick. Then you probably want few burn spells though the exact selection is more difficult.

Also, this deck looks like it could probably utilize few Gavony Townships later when you do get a lot of mana going on and a bunch of mana elves that stand around otherwise uselessly. Doubly so since you want to apparently be Rancoring things up.

[Togath]

How is Drainpipe vermin in a black or B/R deck? It's a 1 mana creature, and has a decent effect(though some of the 1 mana cards with unleash are better for damage)

[Fable Wright]

How is Drainpipe vermin in a black or B/R deck? It's a 1 mana creature, and has a decent effect(though some of the 1 mana cards with unleash are better for damage)

Terrible. The problem with the card is that 1/1 bodies are more or less irrelevant in almost any format. The discard effect doesn't actually do too much, and you have to hold mana open to get value from it. It's either a 1 mana 1/1 (bad), or a 1/1 that wastes your mana every turn for 1 (worse). Some people think it's okay in Limited events, like Sealed, but it's pretty much universally agreed it's bad in Standard.

[Togath]

Darn, and after doing a search(not 100% sure how to use the search yet) just about any other 1 mana Black, Red, or neutral creature is stronger,
The main ones to look out for would be;
Chronomatron(at least a 1/1 creature, and it can buff itself +1/+1 each turn), Deathrite Shaman(for the deal 2 damage effect, or the ability to use destroyed lands), Nivmagus Elemental(since it can stack +1/+1 counters quickly), Rakdos Cackler(since it's a 2/2 creature), or Slitherhead(since if it dies you get a free +1/+1 counter)
Correct?

[Fable Wright]

Darn, and after doing a search(not 100% sure how to use the search yet) just about any other 1 mana Black, Red, or neutral creature is stronger,
The main ones to look out for would be;
Chronomatron(at least a 1/1 creature, and it can buff itself +1/+1 each turn), Deathrite Shaman(for the deal 2 damage effect, or the ability to use destroyed lands), Nivmagus Elemental(since it can stack +1/+1 counters quickly), Rakdos Cackler(since it's a 2/2 creature), or Slitherhead(since if it dies you get a free +1/+1 counter)
Correct?

Diregraf Ghoul.
Stromkirk Noble.
Gravecrawler.
Your search seems to be missing out on Innistrad block, if you didn't include those three. The best are probably Cackler, Diregraf Ghoul, Gravecrawler, and Stromkirk Noble, in order. Gravecrawler is probably not worth the price tag right now, and Stromkirk Noble might actually be better in your deck. If he can get in for damage twice, he becomes a bigger threat than Gravecrawler; Gravecrawler is just listed higher because you can occasionally cast them from the graveyard, which is a pretty powerful ability. Probably too situational for your deck, though.

Chronomaton isn't that good in Standard, because it requires mana to grow every turn and is fairly easily dealt with, and takes a lot of time to become big enough to be relevant. Nivmagus Elemental requires a lot of cheap Instants and Sorceries to abuse, so it wouldn't fit really well with your deck. Slitherhead is probably not good in your deck, but in decks that dump him straight into the graveyard (With Lotleth Troll, Liliana of the Veil, whatever) he's a free pump spell. Deathrite Shaman is actually really good, but the price tag may or may not be worth it. I certainly wouldn't run more than 2. His job is basically to exile Instants and Sorceries to give you the reach to kill an opponent who has stabilized. Also, as an aside on his first ability, it usually exiles land that sacrifices itself, rather than land that was destroyed via another card.

[Togath]

I'll look into the Innistrad block, the cards look pretty useful.
I also recently found a local gaming shop, so I might be able to find sets other then return to ravincia

[tgva8889]

Powered Cube isn't an official format. Theoretically you could make up a format that requires 4 of each Power 9 and say that's the most expensive format, but it's not an actual format.

Technically, you didn't say anything about the competitiveness of the format at any point in any of your arguments. You said the most expensive format to get into was Vintage, not that the most expensive competitive format to get into was Vintage. I believe you are wrong, and provided a counterexample.

You'd need to explain what you mean by "changes pretty consistently." If you're referring to the fact you see different decks in the top 8, that's because there's a lot of different decks in the format. There's a lot of competitive decks. Maybe only 5-10 can be considered Tier 1, but a Tier 2 deck can definitely take home the prize. A few weeks ago 12-Post had a 2nd place finish at an SCG Legacy Open, and I didn't even think that deck was still a thing until then. The competitive decks don't change that much in Legacy. Yes, some do fall out of favor and sometimes new decks come in, but for the most part the current decks are just the decks there were years ago with newer cards added, like Canadian Threshold's transformation into RUG Delver. Actually, it wouldn't even cost much to change a 2009 Canadian Threshold deck into a 2012 RUG Delver, because the biggest difference between the two is that you now play 4x Delver of Secrets and have more options in what your fetchlands are. All the potential new cards for the deck are pretty cheap to get because they tend not to have the availability problems of the old cards.

That's fair. I suppose it depends on what you consider "cheap," but yes, that makes some amount of sense.

Not really. If you're changing your list, the differences usually aren't really that expensive because the incoming cards are new cards, which, with the exception of something like Jace, the Mind Sculptor, are generally reasonably cheap, especially once they rotate out of Standard. See my RUG Delver example.

Changing a deck can be more expensive, and admittedly is required in some cases. However, let's actually take a look at costs here. The deck that won the most recent Vintage Championship cost a little over $7,000 (I'm going by TCGPlayer's "Low" price). For that amount of money you can buy a playset of EVERY dual, EVERY fetchland, Force of Will, Wasteland, and still have about $3,000 left to buy the other stuff you need.

And you don't need to do it "pretty often." That kind of thing is mostly just for the realm of the really top players, you know, the ones whose names you see repeatedly in Top 8's. And even they tend to stick to a limited number of decks they play because if you're constantly switching your deck, it means you're playing with something you have less experience with and are going to be doing more poorly with.

If you're switching decks like a maniac then maybe Legacy would be eventually more expensive, but even then after a while you'd end up with such a solid base that it'd become much less expensive to change decks because they share cards. Eventually you'll be building up all the duals and fetchlands and the other cards that are shared between decks. Going from Show and Tell to RUG Delver is going to be a lot cheaper than going straight to RUG Delver, for example, as you'll already have the Volcanic Islands and a fair number of the fetchlands. Unless you're trading/selling your cards for new ones, in which case the point is moot anyway.

That's fair, but I assume that if you are going to "get into a format" you intend to win as much as possible. Changing your deck to match the metagame is an important element of doing so, so my assumption is that someone who is intending to being winning consistently in a format will do so.

I imagine that Vintage changes even less frequently than Legacy does, so that if you purchase a 75 and maybe some metagame sideboard cards for a good Vintage deck, you probably never have to play anything else ever. Maybe this is wrong, but that was my understanding of the power in the format. If that's wrong, then yes, it is more expensive to get into Vintage. I assume neither of us know enough about Vintage to determine whether that's true or not, but if you do, please enlighten me. As a result of this assumption, even if you only change decks in Legacy such that it costs $20-$50 between each tournament (which I don't think is super-unreasonable), if you barely ever need to change your Vintage deck, the Legacy deck will, eventually, cost more to play.

Theoretically it may be cheaper to get into Vintage because there aren't any significant Vintage tournaments except for the Vintage Championships, and the majority of the Vintage tournaments I've heard of besides those allow you to play some number of proxies, which cuts the cost of your deck significantly.

Also, since price comes up a lot in discussions, I vote that we use the Black Lotus Project as a point of comparison, since I think we should standardize the prices we use.

[Lord Seth]

Technically, you didn't say anything about the competitiveness of the format at any point in any of your arguments. You said the most expensive format to get into was Vintage, not that the most expensive competitive format to get into was Vintage. I believe you are wrong, and provided a counterexample.

Except whether it's "competitive" or not is besides the point. Commander generally isn't considered particularly competitive, but it is an actual format with a banned list and such.

Also, it is worth pointing out that the context, I believe, showed we were discussing constructed formats, which cube drafting is not.

However, even ignoring that, you can make up any format you want to try to disprove the point. The format you mentioned (Powered Cube) doesn't mean as expensive as, say, Millionaire, a format in which all decks must, according to TCGPlayer's price estimates, be worth at least $20,000. That's more expensive than yours! But it's not an actual format.

That's fair, but I assume that if you are going to "get into a format" you intend to win as much as possible. Changing your deck to match the metagame is an important element of doing so, so my assumption is that someone who is intending to being winning consistently in a format will do so.

"Getting into" a format means to actually have a deck and be able to compete. That's what getting into means; you have to actually enter the format to do anything, which is, again, what "getting into" means. Actually changing your deck a lot is what you do when you're already in and are trying to be really competitive. That's going quite a bit farther in. Especially when the original message I was replying to was clearly talking about someone new to a format. If you're "getting into" Legacy or Vintage or Modern or anything else, you're not going to be actually switching around decks a lot, you'll want to just get a decent deck and start playing, and maybe switch things up eventually.

I imagine that Vintage changes even less frequently than Legacy does, so that if you purchase a 75 and maybe some metagame sideboard cards for a good Vintage deck, you probably never have to play anything else ever. Maybe this is wrong, but that was my understanding of the power in the format.

Well, first off, you just described Legacy pretty well. You can take a good deck from 4 years ago and still play it today (unless it's a Survival of the Fittest deck, then you're kind of screwed, though I guess you throw in Fauna Shaman to replace it). It might not necessarily be great anymore, but you can still play it. A CounterTop deck not playing Terminus or Entreat the Angels might not be optimized, but it's still decent.

And as far as I can tell this is true for Vintage also. I looked at the Top 8 at the most recent Vintage Championship (I believe the biggest Vintage tournament in the United States). All of the decks had cards from recent years. Let's look at the deck that won the whole thing. Cards that are from the last few years (Zendikar onward) are:
Blightsteel Colossus
Snapcaster Mage
Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Flusterstorm
Mental Misstep
Nihil Spellbomb
Scalding Tarn
Grafdigger's Cage

In addition, the remaining top 8 had the following recent cards in them:
Phyrexian Metamorph
Phyrexian Revoker
Wurmcoil Engine
Steel Hellkite
Kuldotha Forgemaster
Myr Battlesphere
Precursor Golem
Slash Panther
Leyline of the Void
Nature's Claim
Gitaxian Probe
Bloodghast

(Side note: Someone had City in a Bottle in their sideboard. Which is all the more funny because after thinking about it, I realized it was an okay sideboard card in the format.)

Now, it's true that some of these cards are quite cheap to get ahold of. But some are a bit more pricey. However, the point is that if you want to be the guy who can win the big tournaments (admittedly, there are few big Vintage tournaments...), then you have to adopt new cards. It doesn't even necessarily mean you'll be changing your deck focus, but you will need to change some of the cards in it as better options become available, or, alternatively, better things occur for your opponents and you need a way to answer them.

So, yes, you can make a deck, wait several years, and still play it. However, if you want your deck to be fully optimized, you will have to adopt any new cards that are good in it. Just like Legacy.

The real question becomes how much deck types change in Vintage; that is, when you'd need to switch up decks to be really strong for the metagame. And that's something that's harder for me to determine about Vintage. The big problem is the general lack of tournaments makes it harder to determine whether a deck is truly viable or not, it isn't like Legacy where you get Top 16's on an almost weekly basis and can see if certain decks aren't placing at all. After all, a deck might be perfectly good, but if there aren't many tournaments, doesn't have a shot to really show off. High Tide was perfectly capable of winning an entire SCG Legacy Open, but you wouldn't have known it if you were looking at Legacy Top 8's for 5 months beforehand. And as I've mentioned before, I thought 12-Post was pretty much a dead deck until someone hit #2 with it at an SCG Legacy Open. So I could look at some decks from several years ago that were popular, see they haven't been placing at all in the last year, and erroneously conclude they're no longer good just because they haven't had enough of an opportunity. And indeed I've really only looked at the Top 8 of several Vintage tournaments, so my knowledge is even more limited than that would be.

Still, we can try. This looks like a good list to see what the top decks were in the past. And, at least according to my rather limited knowledge of the format, some of these decks do seem to have fallen out of favor, and some new ones have risen up. For example, Dredge is now a major deck in the format (and would have likely been in that article had it been printed one year later). In contrast, Oath of Druids decks seem to have died down (none in Top 8 of Vintage Championships, Bazaar of Moxen, or Grudge Match). I wonder how much of that is due to Grafdigger's Cage...

So, it is quite certain that if you're a Vintage player, you will at least need to, at a minimum, adjust your deck. Just like Legacy! Whether you need to actually change your deck type if you want to be top-tier is a trickier matter, but it does seem like this is true for Vintage. Just like Legacy!

All of this actually makes me interesting in checking out Vintage, which from what I hear is actually a really interesting format, though the cost is rather troublesome...

As a result of this assumption, even if you only change decks in Legacy such that it costs $20-$50 between each tournament (which I don't think is super-unreasonable),

What do you mean by "each tournament"? This is vague. How frequently are we talking in terms of tournaments?

if you barely ever need to change your Vintage deck, the Legacy deck will, eventually, cost more to play.

I feel this is incorrect even if you do only need to "barely ever" change your Vintage deck, but I believe I have sufficiently shown that, yes, it at least needs some changes.

Also, since price comes up a lot in discussions, I vote that we use the Black Lotus Project as a point of comparison, since I think we should standardize the prices we use.

I prefer using TCGPlayer's prices, as they conveniently will tally up the price of an entire deck for you. Though it does bring up the trickier question of whether to use their High/Med/Low. I usually use Low because I generally can get them for cheaper than that if I look, so that's the best price for how much something would cost you if you're willing to scrounge a bit.

[tgva8889]

Fair enough.

[Bucky]

Chronomaton isn't that good in Standard, because it requires mana to grow every turn and is fairly easily dealt with, and takes a lot of time to become big enough to be relevant.

Chronomaton is okay in mono-red, as another one-drop that threatens to break through again around turn 7.

[Sith_Happens]

Chronomaton is okay in mono-red, as another one-drop that threatens to break through again around turn 7.

What's a turn 7?

[Squark]

Yeah, if mono red has hit turn 7, you're depending on an opportune burn spell to end the game, not a creature that will waste mana turn after turn until you finally attack with it and it gets blown up with the removal spell your opponent drew in the intermittent time.

[Lord Seth]

Chronomaton is pretty great in Limited but rather mediocre in Constructed. The main issue is that decks that want the game to go on for long enough for it to become useful (e.g. control decks) probably aren't going to want it in their decks.

[dragonsamurai77]

This is just theoretical/for PBP, but any thoughts on this Modern deck? (It's a bit over 60, but I'm not sure what to take out)

Spoiler

Show

Forest x18
Mounain x10
Eldrazi Temple x4
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn x2
Spawnsire of Ulamog x2
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth x2
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre x2
Ulamog's Crusher x2
Awakening Zone x4
It That Betrays x2
Emrakul's Hatcher x2
Kozilek's Predator x2
Nest Invader x3
Artisan of Kozilek x2
Primal Growth x4
Rampant Growth x4

[Togath]

How many of a non land card can you have in your deck?, It's probably a stupid question, but I haven't been sure

[dragonsamurai77]

How many of a non land card can you have in your deck?, It's probably a stupid question, but I haven't been sure

4, and that also applies to nonbasic lands.

[Togath]

Ah.
I also managed to draw a duel sided card in a booster pack earlier today...which side do I put facing up when building a deck?, Nevermind, just found the rules in an old wizards article, use a checklist card or a card sleeve for them, correct?

[Lhurgyof]

My current EDH deck I'm testing out this week is Urza's Worst Nightmare.

Just a funky deck using a weird general. I playtested it 1v1 against my friend tonight, and it did decently.

[Lhurgyof]

Ah.
I also managed to draw a duel sided card in a booster pack earlier today...which side do I put facing up when building a deck?, Nevermind, just found the rules in an old wizards article, use a checklist card or a card sleeve for them, correct?

That is correct.

[Squark]

So, I was thinking about building a no rares cube to draft at college (I already have the sleeves, and a fair number of decent card choices for it). An issue that's come up, though, is Aside from Savage Twister, are there any other mass removal spells at uncommon-common level?