Doctor Who Thread III: Reverse the Polarity of the Neutron Flow

[The_Admiral]

I know that, but one can hope.

[navar100]

Who here thinks River Song was the woman at the store who gave Clara the Doctor's phone number? Interesting one line is said of it but then "forgotten". I wonder if it will be referenced again.

[Androgeus]

Who here thinks River Song was the woman at the store who gave Clara the Doctor's phone number? Interesting one line is said of it but then "forgotten". I wonder if it will be referenced again.

Most likely. Some people think it's Rose but I just feel like that's Rose lovers wanting Rose back (like how the prequel starts with a blonde haired girl and a coloured boy run past the camera and people were like "zomg, it's Rose and Mickey")

[Kosmopolite]

Nah, most likely it was River. And since it's Moffat, most likely River on the Doctor's orders.

[Weezer]

Overall, good episode. Pretty standard mid-range Moffat fare, flashy, quick dialogue, plot holes and not a lot of substance. I've only got one gripe:

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The villain. Since it was the Great Intelligence, they knew the Doctor would come and had some idea of his methods, but they didn't do a single thing to stop him. Their 'plan' was to just say that everyone couldn't be saved and expected him to wander off. Even if that were entirely true, the Doctor would still tear their entire operation down. Unless of course the GI didn't actually care about the brain eating, but I don't think that's likely.

[Hopeless]

Overall, good episode. Pretty standard mid-range Moffat fare, flashy, quick dialogue, plot holes and not a lot of substance. I've only got one gripe:

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The villain. Since it was the Great Intelligence, they knew the Doctor would come and had some idea of his methods, but they didn't do a single thing to stop him. Their 'plan' was to just say that everyone couldn't be saved and expected him to wander off. Even if that were entirely true, the Doctor would still tear their entire operation down. Unless of course the GI didn't actually care about the brain eating, but I don't think that's likely.

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The impression I got was that the operation was world wide and this was just the London base of its scheme so whilst the doctor took down one section it meant GI had time to dismantle and hide the others which could set up somewhere else and hide until UNIT gave up their search after all if Gi needed minds that badly there wouldn't have been any left by the time the doctor forced them to reverse the download...

I figure the whole operation was intended to keep the doctor away from the GI itself since there might be a link between Clara and GI...

[Friv]

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The villain. Since it was the Great Intelligence, they knew the Doctor would come and had some idea of his methods, but they didn't do a single thing to stop him. Their 'plan' was to just say that everyone couldn't be saved and expected him to wander off. Even if that were entirely true, the Doctor would still tear their entire operation down. Unless of course the GI didn't actually care about the brain eating, but I don't think that's likely.

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My suspicion is that the Great Intelligence more or less washed his hands of the whole thing the instant that the Doctor showed up. He warned his minions that the Doctor was incredibly dangerous, and they didn't take him seriously enough.

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The impression I got was that the operation was world wide and this was just the London base of its scheme so whilst the doctor took down one section it meant GI had time to dismantle and hide the others which could set up somewhere else and hide until UNIT gave up their search after all if Gi needed minds that badly there wouldn't have been any left by the time the doctor forced them to reverse the download...

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No, that was the worldwide hub - we saw some of the international people on the big wall.

I don't think that the GI actually needed to 'eat' minds to grow, he just needed the access to them. That's the main reason he wasn't too concerned when the whole thing fell apart; he'd already gotten what he needed.

[Kato]

Yeah, nice episode. Nothing mind blowing but okay.

The chemistry between Smith and Coleman was good, as before. It was fast paced and witty and entertaining. But... of course there were more or less bad plot holes. Still... I somehow felt a bit underwhelmed by the enemy...

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Also, I'll have to admit, the whole "I need to protect you" felt just the slightest bit off to. Maybe I just spent too much time lately studying the horrors of Twilight . He did camp outside his window and not sneak into her rrom to stare at her at least.
Okay, I'm not even half serious here but I did get some weird vibes from it, nonetheless.

And... yeah, the number was probably given to her by some important female, most likely River. Or maybe we'll learn of someone else who might be a candidate over the rest of the season.

[dps]

Most likely. Some people think it's Rose but I just feel like that's Rose lovers wanting Rose back (like how the prequel starts with a blonde haired girl and a coloured boy run past the camera and people were like "zomg, it's Rose and Mickey")

I'm not particularly a Rose fan, but I think that it was her because

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we know that Rose will be back for the 50th anniversary episode, and I'm guessing that's when we find out what Clara's deal is, so it kind of ties together. While I have no idea what Clara's deal will turn out to be, I figure this is Rose making sure that she got connected to the Doctor, sort of like Donna in "Turn Left". Just more of Moffat's recycling.

[thorgrim29]

Is it just me or was this episode very similar to the one where 10 and Rose stop a tv monster during the Queen's coronation?

[The_Admiral]

THis ep has given me an idea.

WHat would you think of a UNIT game? YOu play as small UNIT team attached to a city, let's say New York.

[Sunken Valley]

Somebody else thinks Bells of St John is sexist.

First 3 posts from top (though there's a gif further down commenting on the monk making the holy sign). First post I think is over the top I warn you. The third post however, is commented on in my review, though less articulately.

[Kato]

Somebody else thinks Bells of St John is sexist.

First 3 posts from top (though there's a gif further down commenting on the monk making the holy sign). First post I think is over the top I warn you. The third post however, is commented on in my review, though less articulately.

Yay, more sexism argument

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Post 1) Totally off. So, it would be more okay if it was a female GI controlling a man? Or a female controlling Kizet? Okay, I'll admit it's a bit... unpleasant how the woman is mostly a tool. But what happened to her in the end was supposed to be unsettling and would have been unsettling no matter the gender constellation used. (Also, the whole "imprinting - I still can't shake how this episode reminded me of the premise of Whedon's Dollhouse series - was way too vague to judge how far it was her being controlled and how far those were her actions. Not that I'd say she was THAT capable a villain anyway)

2) Uhm... the bit with the lady was - again - supposed to be creepy? It was the villain doing it, we are not supposed to think any of that was nice and okay? Maybe it's just me but I think nobody paid any attention to whether the actress was black when doing the casting. Jumping to conclusions about any intentions for a minor side characters skin color... "Sorry, we can't use you for that role because you have the wrong skin color. Our villain's disgusting plot could come pff as racist this way."

Concerning the second point... Maybe it's just me but the Doctor is patronizing all the time towards not only women, not only humans, but pretty much everyone if he feels like it. He's a 1000 year old time lord. It's okay if he talks down to a league of Cybermen but not to an ordinary woman?

3) Yeah, I mentioned how this felt... a bit off to me as well. It's not quite as unsettling as described but it would be rather creepy stalkerish in real life. It's the Doctor, so I'm probably giving him more leeway than I should, with someone else I would probably feel more strongly against it.

[Dienekes]

THis ep has given me an idea.

WHat would you think of a UNIT game? YOu play as small UNIT team attached to a city, let's say New York.

New York? I'd think London would make more sense. But I'd play such a game, sounds fun in a monster of the week kind of way.

[Hullabaloo]

Late to the party, but On-Demand put it up last night and I got to enjoy

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Best line

The Doctor: ... I fixed that rattling noise in the washing machine, indexed the kitchen cupboards, optimized the photosynthesis in the main flower bed and assembled the quadricycle.
Clara: Assembled the what?
The Doctor: I found a disassembled quadricycle in the garage.
Clara: I don't think you did.
The Doctor: ...I invented the quadricycle!

[Friv]

Somebody else thinks Bells of St John is sexist.

First 3 posts from top (though there's a gif further down commenting on the monk making the holy sign). First post I think is over the top I warn you. The third post however, is commented on in my review, though less articulately.

Alright, I'll bite.

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For Post #1 (The Doctor's creepy behaviour)... yes. It was kind of creepy, and more than a little off-putting. And Clara was creeped out and off-put by it! That's why she locked the door in his face, and why her first expression upon waking up was definitively a creeped-out one, and why when she opened her window and started yelling down at the Doctor, she didn't start off sounding very friendly.

It wasn't until several lines into that conversation that she thawed, and even then she thawed in a "this guy is kind of more like a ridiculous, awkward kid than a dangerous predator" way, not in a "I LUV YOUU" way.

I could be wrong, but I felt like this was partially showing that the Doctor's still not on an even keel. He's reeling, and not behaving quite correctly, and while this is funny it's also not quite good.

For Post #2 (The creepy bit with the waitress) - Again, that was super-disturbing deliberately. Note the drastic shift in the waitress's attitude to just having the Doctor watching her as soon as the Controller lets go. The point of that scene, directly, was that the Controller was considering all people to be tools to be used, not people to be interacted with, and the Doctor disagreed rather vehemently. (Also, I can't help but note that the blogger gives the power in that sequence to the GI, whereas the scene itself makes it pretty clear that the GI is being hands-off for this whole adventure and that's the Controller entirely. I guess admitting that the woman bad guy had power and agency would undermine the "women are useless" argument...)

For Post #3 - This is one of those things where different people will read different things. The Controller had been with the GI for about as long as the original guy in the Christmas Special had, and she more-or-less directly said that she'd been with the GI long enough that she wasn't sure she remembered what she had been any more. This strongly implies a connection between her and the Christmas Special guy, who was also bound to the GI at a young age, and molded into someone who wanted to destroy the world. I don't recall STFU Moffat yelling when that happened.

I mean, normally I don't jump to the "one instance doesn't mean sexism" argument, because I understand that there are extra problems, but this is a situation where the exact same thing has literally happened to a male character already.

*EDIT*
The thing that really bothers me about the "Steven Moffat is sexist, let's go back to the halcyon days of Russel T. Davies" is that Russel gave us the following companions:

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Rose Tyler, the Companion whose entire life was based around being in love with the Doctor
Micky, whose entire character arc was based around Rose Tyler being in love with the Doctor
Martha Jones, whose entire character arc was based around being in love with the Doctor
Donna Noble, whose entire character arc was about how much the Doctor improved her life, and then she got super-arbitrarily zapped and brainwiped against her will.
Donna's grandfather, who was awesome but whose entire arc was basically about trying to protect Donna.
Kylie Minogue, who loved the Doctor and then died.
River Song, who loved the Doctor and then died (and yes, Moffat wrote that one, but Davies approved it and if you're going to blame Moffat for things other writers do that goes both ways).
That British thief lady who flirted with the Doctor a bunch and then ran off.
That Martian lady who killed herself to motivate the Doctor.
Captain Jack Harkness, who got booted out of the TARDIS after three episodes.

The ratio is not strongly towards female empowerment, is what I'm saying.

[dps]

Somebody else thinks Bells of St John is sexist.

First 3 posts from top (though there's a gif further down commenting on the monk making the holy sign). First post I think is over the top I warn you. The third post however, is commented on in my review, though less articulately.

FWIW, I agree pretty much with what Friv and Kato posted. And that first post, while time-stamped from a coupld of hours ago, is pasted from something that someone linked to months ago (it might not have been here--may have been linked to from the Doctor Who Yahoo!Group).

As for the monk, that was probably a realistic reaction for a guy in a monastic order at the time. Here's some history you might not know: When the Vikings first reached Iceland, they found Irish monks already there. The monks had come to Iceland because in Ireland, even living in a monastary, they might accidentally see a woman while they were out tending cattle or the like, but in Iceland at the time, there weren't any actual settlements, just monastaries. Granted, that was about 400 years before the events in the episode, but I don't think the attitudes of monks had changed that much in the interim.

Now, is the attitude of the monks sexist? Absolutely. Is portraying that sexist? I can't see that it is.

[The_Admiral]

New York? I'd think London would make more sense. But I'd play such a game, sounds fun in a monster of the week kind of way.

The idea was to avoid the doctor entirely and instead hammer the villains with UNIT being awesome.

UNIT does stand for United Nations Intelligence Taskforce

[Thufir]

The idea was to avoid the Doctor entirely and instead hammer the villains with UNIT being awesome.

UNIT does stand for United Nations Intelligence Taskforce.

...the Doctor is not based in London. UNIT kind of are, at least partly.

[The_Admiral]

...the Doctor is not based in London. UNIT kind of are, at least partly.

Tell that to the strange fondness his TARDIS seems to have to that place.

Also I wanted to set it in the 70's right after doc 3 got his TARDIS fixed and wandered off.

[Strawberries]

Saw the episode as soon as it aired, but I finally have time to write something about it.

First of all, I really really liked it. Probably one of my favourites in the 7th series so far. And I really like Clara, too. I had reservation before (namely Clara coming off a bit like River Song - and I can't stand River Song) but as of this episode, I'm much more confident that I'll like her as a long term companion. Can we just NOT have romance, pretty please? I'm a bit tired of it, but hey, I can live with it, I suppose. If I have to.

Re: sexism

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Alright, I'm a woman and I self - identify as feminist, but this is getting a bit ridiculous.

-The villains are villains for a reason. They are supposed to be despicable. I don't imagine respect for women would be very high on a villain list, and I don't honestly see a problem with that.

-The monk's reaction: again, he is a medieval monk, I don't think he should be big on gender equality. Hell, the poor guy was scared of women. That's something that isn't really jarring, in a monk in that time period. And I found the scene pretty funny.

-Stalkerish Doctor. Well... Duh? I mean, thinking about the character for a bit: the doctor has lost Amy and Rory (and we've been told more than once that the doctor NEEDS companions). The Doctor also lost Clara twice... no, three times, if you count the partial download. And the Doctor is, by character, larger than life: he overreacts pretty much by default. He was worried about losing Clara for the fourth time and he overreacted, coming off as a bit creepy. And Clara, at least at the beginning, is suitability creeped out, refusing to let him into her house. Again, believable, again, I don't see the sexism.

Also, I agree with whoever said that the doctor talks down to pretty much everyone, not just women. The guy is a centuries old time lord with a superiority complex a mile wide. And how many times have we seen women tell him 'shut up, you are not THAT infallible'? I can remember a couple off the top of my head, mostly Amy and River, but I'm sure there are more.

Funnily enough, my problem with Moffat's women has always been the opposite: that they sometimes come off as a bit too perfect, too competent, lacking flaws to humanise them. Just shows how different the audience is, I suppose.

[Dr. Simon]

The story was strange, really, and full of holes. But it was fast-paced and witty enough that I didn't really care.

Which describes about 90% of all Doctor Who, ever.

Some people think it's Rose but I just feel like that's Rose lovers wanting Rose back

There are some?

Is it just me or was this episode very similar to the one where 10 and Rose stop a tv monster during the Queen's coronation?

The Idiot's Lantern. Not just you, I agree it was similar.

Somebody else thinks Bells of St John is sexist.

Hmm, but then lots of people think Scientology is a good idea. Also, maybe the monk thought Clara was a demon because, you know, he's from the 13th century and there's a disembodied voice coming from a strange box, not because she was a woman? Just sayin'.

[The_Admiral]

There are some?

Yes, I have encountered one in real life

[Eldan]

On the monk again: not only is he a medieval monk, the woman the doctor tells him about is apparently speaking out of a magical piece of string at the side of a blue box that glows and makes ringing noises. I think crossing himself is not entirely inappropriate.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Since we're getting close to the end of the thread, may I propose the next title?

Doctor Who Thread IV: The Scarfed Thread

[Kato]

Since we're getting close to the end of the thread, may I propose the next title?

Doctor Who Thread IV: The Scarfed Thread

I'm not entirely opposed but I'd prefer something jelly baby related.

On a not entirely unrelated note: I'm getting excited because I'm close to finishing my almost nearly authentic Doctor Who scarf. Yay.

[Dr. Simon]

Yes, I have encountered one in real life

I was beginning to wonder from the general attitude towards her in this forum!

On thread title, I proposed "Would you like a jelly baby?" a while back, and I suggest it again.

[Jimorian]

Doctor Who Thread IV: Under My Protection

[comicshorse]

Doctor Who Thread : 'It's bigger on the inside '

[Friv]

I was beginning to wonder from the general attitude towards her in this forum!

On thread title, I proposed "Would you like a jelly baby?" a while back, and I suggest it again.

I vote for this!