Regarding Elan's plan in 836...

[Eldhusgaur]

Meeting Tarquin was a huge thing for Elan, so maybe Elan used sending to contact his mom, and tell her to contact Nale.
Tarquin could have told Nale his mother was dead, or something similar, so seeing her could be a huge thing for Nale.
Nale has been going through some character growth, and seeing/meeting his mother (and maybe get a dramatic monologue from her on her needlessly complicated plan to see him again) would change his outlook forever.

[AstralFire]

Nothing Elan does to Nale would affect Tarquin in any way aside from being prouder of Elan.

[Fish]

I think it's about getting someone to impersonate his mother, for the dramatic effect it could have upon Tarquin.

Why do I think so?

1. Rich has twice shown us what Elan's mom looks like. I put it to you, the reason is so he can bring in the character and have us recognize her by sight.

2. Haley has had a number of conspicuous encounters with cosmetics during this arc. Makeup -- a way to create a disguise.

3. Tarquin's ring of true seeing cannot penetrate mundane disguises. Illusions won't work but makeup would.

4. "A sense of family in someone who's good" suggests taking a good person and making them seem like family.

Also, let me just note an odd confluence of details. Upon using the Belt of Gender, Roy comments that "if it doesn't say it'll grow hair, it won't." What does Haley buy? Hair growth tonic. Curious.

[Rakoa]

You've completely sold me on that one, Fish. That is some amazing insight you've had there. Those little itty bitty details add up to...pretty well exactly what you concluded. Well done in noticing them.

[Fish]

I'll be the first to say my theory is probably wrong. I find the confluence of factors interesting. It has potential. But I'm not putting money on it. :)

[Reddish Mage]

I think a meeting between Adult Nale and his mother would be far more traumatic for the mother than for Nale.

That assumes that Elan's mother is as sweet, innocent, normal, naive and low-level a person as is suggested by the one panel she appears in + her dream sequence appearance. Should she appear, several of the above adjectives probably do not apply.

[Kish]

...No, it assumes that she's um...vaguely human. It doesn't matter if she's more powerful than Xykon and wiser than the wisest sage--the news that her darling son grew up to be a vicious serial killer is likely to be devastating.

[David Argall]

It is quite possible that the strip is meaningless in predicting what will happen to Tarquin. It is merely to show Elan brooding over the subject, and coming up with a plan that falls apart before it can be put into effect.
More likely Elan will have some part in dealing with Tarquin, but it is unknowable at this time how much or how, and we merely have a hint that could refer to anything.
[Durkon's dubious expression is pretty meaningless. Anyone listening to any of Elan's plans about anything is going to be at least dubious, if no outright scornful. We can't tell from this whether this is one of his collections of nonsense or something that will work great.]
We can guess what is in mind here, but it is just a guess.

[NZNinja]

You guys are all so close. Elan's sending to his mom was to tell her where to find Nale.

*spittake*

Oh my god... I really hope it was this now, because I really, really want to see Nale meeting his mother, even if Nale is a cruel, twisted little... well.

I really, really want to see Nale meeting his mother, specifically BECAUSE Nale is a cruel, twisted little... How will his anger, his evil, stand against the withering light of a mother's unconditional love?

Although having two planners of such unfathomable complexity in a confined space will surely overload the information-density limit of the fabric of the OotSverse space-time continuum, creating a new ungated rift.

Or perhaps not.

[murph04]

Okay, hear me out on this one.

Elan's major problem right now is devising a way of stopping his father without making Tarquin seem like a badass worthy of remembrance. All we really know is that Elan needed Durkon's help setting it up.
I know that a theory that's been floating around is that Elan asked Durkon to send a Sending Message to Elan's mother in hopes of getting her and Tarquin back together. I think the illusion wedding debunked this theory because having it happen for real now would just be a rehash of everything already said.

So who else could Elan have gotten a message to? I think it's none other than that dashing swordsman Julio Scoundrel.
Think about it: Julio is an more than capable fighter (coming 32nd in the Top 100 Swordsmen of the Century) Plus he's more than a match for Tarquin's pun-prowess.

If Julio wins and kills Tarquin then Elan gets what he wants. Tarquin dies not as a badass, but as a filler villain in one of Julio's adventures.

If the far more likely thing happens and Tarquin kills Julio instead then it will serve to give Elan the desire for revenge to kill his mentor's killer (Something Julio himself predicted would happen in comic #392). Even then it still works out in Elan's favor because now Tarquin won't be remembered as a badass, he'll be remembered as the ******* that killed the worlds most beloved adventurer.

I'd also like to point to Star Wars as a framing for Julio's entrance. Tarquin and Elan already parallel Vader and Luke (to the point that the reference it constantly, their first meeting certainly rings a bell). Why not have Julio be Ben Kenobi in this situation? The older mentor that gets killed by the protagonist's father is certainly a role he is capable of filling.

Lastly I want to look at the strip where Elan's plan takes form, #836 (sorry for no links they aren't working for some reason). Roy says "Maybe it's better to find a sense of family in those that are good than finding a sense of good in your family" at which point Elan has his idea. Though he only knew a short time I get the feeling that Elan looks at Julio as the father figure he never had. Julio even gives him his prize rapier, something that he intended to give to his son. So Elan gets the idea to have Julio (who he has a "sense of family in) battle Tarquin ( as he is unable to find a "sense of good" in).

It makes perfect sense because Julio and Tarquin are so similar. Both are masters of narrative structure, both are concerned with legacies, and both have acted as "fathers" to Elan. The only difference is that Elan identifies more with Julio's morals than Tarquin's.

So what do you think? Too crazy, or just crazy enough to work?

[Kornaki]

Tarquin wants to be killed by Elan because it will be a legendary story told for the ages. Making it more like star wars only helps him in that regard

[Bulldog Psion]

Well, on cursory examination, I'd say it's just crazy enough to work. Julio Scoundrel is at least a possibility, more so than Elan's mom, at any rate.

[HanKhalifa]

I agree with Kornaki; if Tarquin takes down Julio and subsequently loses to Elan, that would be damn close to his ideal way of going out: defeat a world-renowned badass and then get taken out by the son who you'd always hoped would be the one to do so.

However, I believe there might be some merit to the "Julio fights Tarquin and wins" scenario. Though, in that case, it seems to me that Elan gets little to no credit, so to speak, for simply orchestrating such an event, and therefore is somewhat cheated out of catharsis.

Honestly, the whole "Elan's secret plan" thing is (and will likely continue to be) one of the hardest-to-predict plot points, so I don't even bother speculating, here or in my head. But, it is interesting to do so. Heck, someone may even end up right.

[Eloi]

I don't think Julio would agree to come back though, being aware that he would be slain in the role of Obi-Wan, and he said as much.

[sengmeng]

If I had to guess, I'd say that Elan will somehow defuse his father's plan. I think he thought of a way to make Tarquin less "cool," robbing him of his desire to go through with the whole thing. He can only defeat him via better mastery of narrative concepts, after all.

Edit: Tarquin has never been angry in the strip so far, except when Gannji tried to extort him, and mild annoyance at Nale. Breaking his composure is the key to breaking him. He can't be called defeated if be dies exactly how he wanted to. Maybe Elan will do somehing to make it completely embarrassing to be beaten by him. Given Tarquin's misogyny, maybe it will be putting on the belt of gender changing, so he's beaten by his "daughter" instead of his son. Note: I'm not saying I hate transgendered people. I'm saying Tarquin might.

[David Argall]

Okay, hear me out on this one.

Elan's major problem right now is devising a way of stopping his father without making Tarquin seem like a badass worthy of remembrance. All we really know is that Elan needed Durkon's help setting it up.
I know that a theory that's been floating around is that Elan asked Durkon to send a Sending Message

So who else could Elan have gotten a message to? I think it's none other than that dashing swordsman Julio Scoundrel.
Think about it: Julio is an more than capable fighter (coming 32nd in the Top 100 Swordsmen of the Century) Plus he's more than a match for Tarquin's pun-prowess.

As already noted, Scoundrel thinks that seeing Elan again could be fatal for him, and while he like Elan he is not a big deal.
But more important, this is the story of the Order of the Stick, and they are to take the role of Superman, not that of Jimmy Olson. The party is to do the great deeds, not the NPCs. Scoundrel has served his purpose in the plot and is unlikely to be seen again, and is even less likely as the rescuing cavalry.

[AstralFire]

If I had to guess, I'd say that Elan will somehow defuse his father's plan. I think he thought of a way to make Tarquin less "cool," robbing him of his desire to go through with the whole thing. He can only defeat him via better mastery of narrative concepts, after all.

Edit: Tarquin has never been angry in the strip so far, except when Gannji tried to extort him, and mild annoyance at Nale. Breaking his composure is the key to breaking him. He can't be called defeated if be dies exactly how he wanted to. Maybe Elan will do somehing to make it completely embarrassing to be beaten by him. Given Tarquin's misogyny, maybe it will be putting on the belt of gender changing, so he's beaten by his "daughter" instead of his son. Note: I'm not saying I hate transgendered people. I'm saying Tarquin might.

I agree that derailing Tarquin's mastery of the story here is key.

I think his plan somehow involves ignoring Tarquin entirely. Demonstrating that Elan's accomplishments are to stay by his friends as support, rather than as center stage, because they are his family. That sort of act would be both dramatically appropriate and ruining to Tarquin's one spot of genre-blindness - that neither is he the main villain, nor Elan the main character. It'd destroy Tarquin's calm, too, I think.

[Ted The Bug]

I doubt that's what's going to happen, but I love the idea. Julio is one of my favorite non-main characters by a mile (up there with Shojo and the Oracle), and it'd be awesome to see him make one final appearance, even if he'd probably think that it'd lead to his death.

[murph04]

Hmm those are all good counters for my Julio theory, but if it turns out I'm right I'm going to do the "My crazy theory was right!" Dance.


I think the thing we need to look at is Durkon, since Elan's plan apparently hinges on him (though probably not anymore in light of recent events). What abilities does Durkon have that haven't been considered yet? I assume it's something we've already seen because it's not like Rich to spring a new power out of nowhere (at least not at climactic battles). Mass Death Ward, Thor's Might, Control Weather, and Wind-walk are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head. Can anyone think of any others?

[Dwy]

Off-topic, but possibly related to the plan:

How do you think Ian Starshine feels about Nale?
I mean, Nale is a known rebel in the Empire of Blood, killed the High Priest's "children" and has been wanted across the Western continent ever since.

Basicly, I wonder if Elan could use Nale's old trick's against him, this time by being the imposter himself.

[Kish]

Off-topic, but possibly related to the plan:

How do you think Ian Starshine feels about Nale?
I mean, Nale is a known rebel in the Empire of Blood, killed the High Priest's "children" and has been wanted across the Western continent ever since.

Basicly, I wonder if Elan could use Nale's old trick's against him, this time by being the imposter himself.

Considering what Ian said about blood, and his stated reason for being certain Elan was as rotten as Tarquin?

Not a chance. Ian would rather believe that Nale's whole estragement from his father is one massive put-on. If someone pointed out to him that Nale killed Malack's children, he would retort that Malack isn't Tarquin's blood and so Tarquin's loyalty to Nale surely trumps his loyalty to Malack--and he might even be right for once.

[Qaanol]

I'm going with, Elan had Durkon adopt him, so he's legally no longer Tarquin's son.

[murph04]

we know that Durkon has enough diamond dust for one more resurrection. Maybe Elan is going to let his dad kill him and "fake" his death

[Toy Killer]

I think it's about getting someone to impersonate his mother, for the dramatic effect it could have upon Tarquin.

Why do I think so?

1. Rich has twice shown us what Elan's mom looks like. I put it to you, the reason is so he can bring in the character and have us recognize her by sight.

2. Haley has had a number of conspicuous encounters with cosmetics during this arc. Makeup -- a way to create a disguise.

3. Tarquin's ring of true seeing cannot penetrate mundane disguises. Illusions won't work but makeup would.

4. "A sense of family in someone who's good" suggests taking a good person and making them seem like family.

Also, let me just note an odd confluence of details. Upon using the Belt of Gender, Roy comments that "if it doesn't say it'll grow hair, it won't." What does Haley buy? Hair growth tonic. Curious.

I can't find the page it was on, but doesn't Durkon cast the break enchantment spell?

Elan promises that Haley can make out with any of the recurring villains after she's turned to stone.

I don't know what i'm trying to point out here, but I feel like there is something in all the subtext of the last hundred pages or so that point out the plan. I think he is going to impersonate Tarquin and just be Elan trying to be Tarquin and let the country fail in it's own accord. I have a feeling that the belt has significance too, but I don't know how it ties in.

[murph04]

I was just wondering. Most of the theories (heck, even my Juilo one) revolve around Durkon using Sending.
Have we ever actually seen Durkon use sending?

[B. Dandelion]

I was just wondering. Most of the theories (heck, even my Juilo one) revolve around Durkon using Sending.
Have we ever actually seen Durkon use sending?

Yes.
..........

[Cybertoy00]

I may have brought this up in another thread, but I have two words which could explain what Elan has in mind;

Unpaid.
Alimony.

if Elan is contacting his mom, that might be the thing that could cripple Tarquin's plot without it being as dramatic as the general wants.

[deworde]

Okay hear me out on this.

This. I can totally see Tarquin coming back to find Julio Scoundrel posters everywhere. I've wondered if it was going to be this for a while, but everyone was all about the Elan Mom theory.

[twa_pehs]

A lot of good ideas here and lots that I agree with but for some reason Elans mother does not feel like the answer to me. The parallels between Vader and Luke are a good avenue to explore. Maybe Elan could convince Tarquin it would make a better story to redeem himself and become a good guy? Not sure how Durkon would be involved though.

What also occurs to me is that he could try to replace Tarquin with Nale. Nale in Tarquin's shoes would likely be incompetent and unravel all that his group had accomplished. This is extremely difficult to see happening due to the problems of Nale being convinced of a plan by Elan and having to put aside his own ego to pretend to be his father among many others. Durkons involvement is hard to see with this one too.

Neither ideas are likely but I thought I'd put them out there.

[Klear]

The parallels between Vader and Luke are a good avenue to explore. Maybe Elan could convince Tarquin it would make a better story to redeem himself and become a good guy? Not sure how Durkon would be involved though.

Unlikely. Tarquin's priority is living a life of luxury, a good story is a secondary bonus. And he knows that if he turned into a good guy, not only would he likely have to forsake all the power and riches he has now, but he'd be very likely to die in Elan's arms very soon afterwards.