LGBTAitP #37: Once upon a time...

[Kneenibble]

There is a random banter thread for random banter. This is a support thread. And when part of the flirting is censored like a couple pages ago, that's definitely too much.

It is a support thread on a forum about games, media, and comics. But we're not talking about proscribing discussions of Pokemon or Batman -- and for many people here, Internet "physical" affection is a form of fun and support.

[Kindablue]

It is a support thread on a forum about games, media, and comics. But we're not talking about proscribing discussions of Pokemon or Batman -- and for many people here, Internet "physical" affection is a form of fun and support.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

[The Succubus]

I don't know what to do.

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I want to come out to my parents, or at least to my mum. I feel like I'm ready to and I want to get this done before we're visiting my brother in Australia at the end of July so I can come out to him when we're there. But she's having a lot of stress – managing the preparations for the vacation, lots of guests due to a big festival in the nearest town, my guest sister leaving, my ill/weak grandparents ... I know that coming out to my mum while she has a lot of stress is a bad idea and I also don't want to put her through any more stress but I also really want to come out to her. I'd also have liked it if my sister was here for support when I come out, but she is so busy with uni that she will only come home shortly before we leave for Australia. She was here this weekend, but we had guests, so there wasn't time for coming out. *sigh*

– Juniper

I'm not really sure what to suggest, Juniper. Best you can really do is hope for a quiet moment to sit down with your mum and talk to her.

I hope it all works out for you, hun.

[Irish Musician]

LGBTAtiP #38 - Colorful Music for Life


Sorry, on a music kick today and have been driving my boss crazy with all sorts of music playing in the office

~Matthew~

[Karen Lynn]

I need the affections and flirting. It's therapeutic to me. This is always a suppose thread first, but without our friendly, familial banner and chatting, this place would be dead.

If you take the flirting out, you take the warmth out. If you take the warmth from the planet's core, you're left with an icy rock.

[MeanMrsMustard]

LGBTAtiP #38 - Colorful Music for Life

Ooh, is it new thread time?
More Flirting Stuff:
I understand that some people would feel uncomfortable if there was no flirting, but I also understand that people feel uncomfortable with flirting. I don't see why it would be a big deal to spoiler the "How are you? *cuddle*" "Fine, and you? *licks*" stuff. Especially stuff past *hugs*.
Yes, flirting and similar banter can bring warmth, but it can also bring discomfort, especially if it goes on for pages and pages without any actual content other than *cuddle* *hug* *smooch*.

[Astrella]

@Tanail; I'm really sorry to hear about the bad dreams. I hope they pass soon and you'll get some quality sleep in.

-----

Had a nightmare myself:

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What I remember: basically my brother and I were in a game at first instead of studying and then suddenly we were building a mall and my dad ended up chasing us throughout it and being furious and I'm pretty sure it's just because I feel really guilty about wasting my last two years at uni. :/

I'm good, thanks.

Thanks for the welcome. I've been thinking about getting a sex change for a bit under a year. Either way, you've got a nice community here. Communities are fun

Anyone mind if I ramble on about my thoughts for a bit? I'm on holiday right now, can't talk to any professionals.

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I'm male. I've got a desire to become female, but I only started feeling it in my late teens. I'm logically minded to the point where I have a bit of trouble with emotions. I'm about as upset about being male as i get about things, which isn't much. I'm very excited about the prospect of being female.

It feels like...I could be attractive for a change. I don't feel ugly at the moment, just ...null. If I was currently a girl I'd be unattractive, but men...I can't think about them I that way.

I want to be pretty. '

Hmm, okay if I just ramble some thoughts of my own?

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The feeling null and being very logical sounds a lot like me before my breakdown honestly. Two years ago when I started dealing with my trans stuff I basically failed all of my exams, had anxiety attacks and a whole bunch of nasty stuff and that sorta broke the dam for me and unleashed a whole array of emotions. I couldn't cry at all when I wanted to before, and now it just comes really quickly. Hmm. About the feeling null, that sounds familiar too. It made me doubt whether I wanted to transition or was just meh about being a boy, I identified as genderqueer for a while because of that. But when I started actually not jus surpressing it I guess my defence mechanism sorta went down, and dysphoria got a lot worse. I think knowing what it is also makes it a lot more tangible. Hmm.

Got dropped from the warehouse job, guess I just wasn't able to keep up. Back at the temp agency with like 8 other people waiting for work. At least they have wifi. Hugs please?

Aw, that really sucks. :c *offers hugs*

I'm feeling better, the cold didn't get as bad as I had feared. Also, my adorable 8-year-old nephew is here this week and he said I look like his dad/my brother in my new shirt. ^^

Yay.

I don't know what to do.

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I want to come out to my parents, or at least to my mum. I feel like I'm ready to and I want to get this done before we're visiting my brother in Australia at the end of July so I can come out to him when we're there. But she's having a lot of stress – managing the preparations for the vacation, lots of guests due to a big festival in the nearest town, my guest sister leaving, my ill/weak grandparents ... I know that coming out to my mum while she has a lot of stress is a bad idea and I also don't want to put her through any more stress but I also really want to come out to her. I'd also have liked it if my sister was here for support when I come out, but she is so busy with uni that she will only come home shortly before we leave for Australia. She was here this weekend, but we had guests, so there wasn't time for coming out. *sigh*

– Juniper

Hmm, being concerned about not wanting to make your mum more stressed out is something I worry about a lot, but there probably isn't going to be a perfect time to come out. How about when your sister is around before you leave for Australia cause you mentioned you'd like to have her around for it?

[Irish Musician]

Ooh, is it new thread time?

Just about, yes!

And I don't think anyone is saying cut out flirting totally, because that would be sad for me too. But I think, like many people have said before, thinking before we post. You aren't going to please everyone, nor should you because that would make you go crazy, but if we are at least mindful of others feelings towards it, maybe we can cut down on the awkward feelings people get.

~Matthew~

[Zorg]

We ask people to self-moderate, spoiler or PM a few things - overly clinical discussion of scientific sides of things, bleak and depressing (if necessary) news articles or topics, blunt replies and so on and nobody minds because I think we all understand that those things can be (oft unintentionally) hurtful or distressing to some of our thread goers.

It has been illustrated on several occasions that extreme, prolonged bouts of graphic flirting upsets and distresses several of our regular threadgoers for a variety of reasons. It doesn't mean we can't have friendly, familial banner and chatting - it just means we need to be aware that some things that may seem enjoyable and no problem to us (or even necessary!), are a problem to others and we should be accommodating and accepting of how our behaviours can affect others, especially in a public space (doubly one that proclaims it is open to everyone).

Isn't that part of the reason for these threads?

[Eldest]

Flirting stuff:

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It bothers me sometimes, like a while back when everyone was talking about BDSM stuff and going on about putting collars on each other and way more detail than I needed to know. It bothered me because it felt super exclusionary in a way because even if I did or did not have an interest in that it's not something I would roleplay on a public forum and also I find that sort of intimate talk a bit alien to me except amongst my very closest friends (like, three people in the world).
Also to go on from Siuis' post and an earlier discussion about cliques, it could seem like if you're not participating you're not a part of the thread.
It's also hard because sometimes the thread feels more like a "LGBTA+ people chat thread" than a "LGBTA+ support thread".

It's like the difference between a meeting at a place for people to come and discuss issues, but hangout and chat if nothing's going on, against a bunch of friends sitting around in a McDonalds talking and most of them are queer.
I admit that even in the Micky D's situation I'd feel super uncomfortable if everyone started flirting anyway, but I'm aware that that's me. Problem is that it just feels awkward to say things like "hey guys I'm totes depressed and thinking about killing myself" because it's like you're not speaking up at a support group but dropping a heavy-issues bomb at your friend's party.


Well... that's my take on it anyway.

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Collars were iffy, but again, it's something you aren't interested in and that's fine. But I'm going to go back to the MLP example, I'm fine with people putting that in the thread, but I don't have an interest in it.

The fact that you're iffy about speaking up in here about problems is an issue, and I don't know how to help. I would be dropping any ongoing conversation at the time to try and help as soon as it came up. In fact, the only reason I'm talking about the flirting instead of Juniper's thing about coming out to her mom is because I don't know anything to help with it. But this being a friendly place for people to be themselves is, IMO, important to the support aspect of the thread, and I think that light flirting is part of it. See next response for a bit more on that.

There is a random banter thread for random banter. This is a support thread. And when part of the flirting is censored like a couple pages ago, that's definitely too much.

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You realize that I'm not saying that level of flirting is appropriate? I started this conversation in response to what I thought was people asking for no flirting whatsoever. It wasn't, I misunderstood, but I still think that the thing with Setsume (I'm sorry, I've been trying to avoid naming anybody, but specificity overrides anonymity at this point) shouldn't have been a problem. Spoilered, maybe. But saying we went right back to the same levels as before was, IMO, not true and uncalled for.

And seconding (thirding, fourthing, whatever) the Colorful Music for Life title.

[Mina Kobold]

I need the affections and flirting. It's therapeutic to me. This is always a suppose thread first, but without our friendly, familial banner and chatting, this place would be dead.

If you take the flirting out, you take the warmth out. If you take the warmth from the planet's core, you're left with an icy rock.

I quite agree that removing all flirting would be a bad idea, as it clearly is a big comfort and joy for many people here, but I think everybody is agreeing to that. It's just that it can get a bit beyond people's comfort zones and feel exclusive. Not always, but akin to how flirting dialogue and hugging in a support group is welcomed, but sexually explicit talk and making out would make others feel disturbed.

I know it is not intentional, but saying that taking the flirting out equals taking the warmth out... Well, it makes me feel a bit outside of the group. It's other things entirely that warm the thread for me, and it does occasionally feel a bit too much like there's an expectation for people to be licking, kissing and groping each other. I know it's far off the intent, and I don't have much against being pretend-hugged, but I like that we often offer alternatives to hugs and don't need to all be comfortable with the same standard level of intimacy.

And, because that was probably clumsy and rude; here is a colourful video of animated kittens (I didn't have anything GRSM-related to say, sorry! m(_ _)m)

PS:

*Cookies and/or hugs Lena and Tanail*

Mmrrr, those dream sound quite terrifying. I hope they don't reappear and that things turn much better on all fronts. ^_^

[Karen Lynn]

I, for one, *hate* MLP, and this is my first mention of it. If you want to talk about off topic, annoying, and detracting...

Why don't we just spoiler tag every post, and have a wonderfully detailed list of tags in the OP? That way, nobody has to deal with what they don't like.

[The Succubus]

I'm sorry.

This is my fault. I wanted to help everyone to feel more comfortable but I've achieved the exact opposite.

[Philemonite]

LGBTAtiP #38 - Colorful Music for Life


Sorry, on a music kick today and have been driving my boss crazy with all sorts of music playing in the office

~Matthew~

I was gonna suggest
LGBTAtiP #38 - Once More With Feeling.

[Kneenibble]

I, for one, *hate* MLP, and this is my first mention of it. If you want to talk about off topic, annoying, and detracting...

Why don't we just spoiler tag every post, and have a wonderfully detailed list of tags in the OP? That way, nobody has to deal with what they don't like.

I'll also be certain to spoiler tag all my budgie hugs for you.

I'm sorry.

This is my fault. I wanted to help everyone to feel more comfortable but I've achieved the exact opposite.

For the most part, folks are discussing the issue rationally and politely. Disagreement is not the same thing as hostility.

[Karen Lynn]

Will somebody make the new thread already?

[Eldest]

I'm sorry.

This is my fault. I wanted to help everyone to feel more comfortable but I've achieved the exact opposite.

Nonsense. If anybody started the conversation I did.

In other news, does anybody in particular wish to start the next thread?

[Lady Serpentine]

Since it seems relevant, I'm posting on this instead of Juniper's stuff for the same reason Eldest is, basically. I've come out to one person other than the thread, and that was a really close friend. Who I had, y'know, a bit of an inkling would be okay with it, seeing as she's also bi.

Anyway... Moving onto the actual stuff I have to say on the flirting issue:

I think part of the reaction people are having is because, well... If you were in a semi-private area* with a group of people, some of whom you know, some of whom you don't, but where everyone, barring the occasional newcomer, who is quickly introduced and picks up friends, knows someone, would you feel uncomfortable about some of those people hugging each other?

And, if so, would you feel justified in telling them that they need to stop? Yes, if they're pulling each other's clothes off or something, then obviously they need to go get a room, but that's not the case most of the time.

*I'm defining the thread-equivalent as 'semi-private' because while we do welcome newcomers, it's far more like, say, a meeting space where people are invited to come under a few restrictions than a mall or something.

On the recent post by our resident Ditto, due to having thought more about it:

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You realize that I'm not saying that level of flirting is appropriate? I started this conversation in response to what I thought was people asking for no flirting whatsoever. It wasn't, I misunderstood, but I still think that the thing with Setsume (I'm sorry, I've been trying to avoid naming anybody, but specificity overrides anonymity at this point) shouldn't have been a problem. Spoilered, maybe. But saying we went right back to the same levels as before was, IMO, not true and uncalled for.

This, basically, sums up my thoughts. However, I would like to add that the stuff with Setsuna was not even primarily flirting, it was joking that had some low-level flirting mixed in.

[Irish Musician]

I was gonna suggest
LGBTAtiP #38 - Once More With Feeling.

I like that one too :3

[Lentrax]

We ask people to self-moderate, spoiler or PM a few things - overly clinical discussion of scientific sides of things, bleak and depressing (if necessary) news articles or topics, blunt replies and so on and nobody minds because I think we all understand that those things can be (oft unintentionally) hurtful or distressing to some of our thread goers.

It has been illustrated on several occasions that extreme, prolonged bouts of graphic flirting upsets and distresses several of our regular threadgoers for a variety of reasons. It doesn't mean we can't have friendly, familial banner and chatting - it just means we need to be aware that some things that may seem enjoyable and no problem to us (or even necessary!), are a problem to others and we should be accommodating and accepting of how our behaviours can affect others, especially in a public space (doubly one that proclaims it is open to everyone).

Isn't that part of the reason for these threads?

Which is why when someone says, "Oi! You're going too far," I try and step back. Does everyone else? Sorta. It's, I think one of those things where people get caught up in it, you know?

Just assert yourself in the conversation, and remember that this is the Internet, it real time, so someone on a tablet or phone,or even writing a long post f their own, or on another part of the forum, may not see you ask for help or to tone it down. But I think the fact that we can self moderate ourselves to that degree says a lot for how much we all really do care for each other.

I love you all, and I hate the thought that me being friendly and extroverted(things I am not, in RL) are hurting people whose problems and issues I have genuine interest in hearing about and helping if I can.

I am sorry if I have done this to any of you.

I'm sorry.

This is my fault. I wanted to help everyone to feel more comfortable but I've achieved the exact opposite.

It's okay Succubus. Sometimes we just need a kick in the pants(dress, armor, whatever) to make us realize we are being jerks to a lot of other people here.

[MeanMrsMustard]

Why don't we just spoiler tag every post, and have a wonderfully detailed list of tags in the OP? That way, nobody has to deal with what they don't like.

Not sure how sarcastic this is, but I actually don't think I'd mind doing this. At the very least, it would give me practice organizing my thoughts.
But I don't think it's fair to whoever makes the OP to have to maintain a list of tags. I think a brief (like, one-sentence) description above each spoiler we use would be fine. And I'd imagine spoiler tags would only really be necessary for off-topic stuff (like fandom stuff), triggering stuff, and maaaaybe TL;DR stuff.

[Irish Musician]

Will somebody make the new thread already?

On it, will edit here when done.

[Eirala]

*Cookies and/or hugs Lena and Tanail*

Mmrrr, those dream sound quite terrifying. I hope they don't reappear and that things turn much better on all fronts. ^_^

@Tanail; I'm really sorry to hear about the bad dreams. I hope they pass soon and you'll get some quality sleep in.

-----

Had a nightmare myself:

Spoiler

Show

What I remember: basically my brother and I were in a game at first instead of studying and then suddenly we were building a mall and my dad ended up chasing us throughout it and being furious and I'm pretty sure it's just because I feel really guilty about wasting my last two years at uni. :/

*noms cookies and gets hugged* :3
Thanks Keveak and Astrella ^.^

The dreams got better, just had a bit of a nightmare today but at least i slept through (more or less).

@Astrella:
That's tough :/ Hugs?

[MeanMrsMustard]

Thanks, Matthew!
*hopes the title is "Once More With Feeling" but doesn't care too much*

[Karen Lynn]

Not sure how sarcastic this is, but I actually don't think I'd mind doing this. At the very least, it would give me practice organizing my thoughts.
But I don't think it's fair to whoever makes the OP to have to maintain a list of tags. I think a brief (like, one-sentence) description above each spoiler we use would be fine. And I'd imagine spoiler tags would only really be necessary for off-topic stuff (like fandom stuff), triggering stuff, and maaaaybe TL;DR stuff.

I don't have a proper adjective for how irrationally sarcastic that was.

Considering I was going to suggest we tag everything and spoiler every post because an MtF getting a compliment and having even one person use a female pronoun could trigger an FtM who had no luck passing that week.

[Irish Musician]

I give you LGBTAtiP #38 - Once More With Feeling

I hope my own custom beginning is ok, tell me in the next thread if it is not!