League of Legends LIX: Ice Cream, Stamps, and Lorn

[Math_Mage]

Spoiler: LCS

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Tristana goes 0-3 today. LMQ showing how much they still have to grow. Wtf is up with C9. And Doublelift being Doublelift.

[PersonMan]

Spoiler: Reply to LCS

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More Tristana buffs incoming, then.

[ex cathedra]

Spoiler: LCS

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Tristana goes 0-3 today. LMQ showing how much they still have to grow. Wtf is up with C9. And Doublelift being Doublelift.

Spoiler: LCS

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EG beats curse (rip), col is 2-0 vs C9, the only thing that makes sense about NALCS is that TSM is better than CLG since they have a better coach. thank god that champions summer is back.

[efdf]

that's why i'm jayce god

here are my credentials, where's yours

[Ashen Lilies]

This just in, Jarvan IV has good laning phase.

In other news, Vayne scales well, Orianna has a good teamfight.

Bruta, Tiamat and LW in some order seems like an ideal J4 build to me. Transition into some tankiness later, or just go balls-to-the-wall AD, either way you're planning on dunking carries first and taking damage second.

[ex cathedra]

here are my credentials, where's yours

im still learning

[mrcarter11]

Spoiler: LCS

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Tristana goes 0-3 today. LMQ showing how much they still have to grow. Wtf is up with C9. And Doublelift being Doublelift.

Spoiler: LCS

Show

Trist went 1-2 today.. LMQ won early on because people had to adjust to them, just like in NACS but they were pushed to the fifth round of a best of five to win in the NACS and now LCS teams are learning to play against them too. Also I feel like we as fans should be able to expect more from DL by this point, like seriously.

hydra is inefficient on champions who are only purchasing tiamat for burst. going tiamat-> bruta or LW is probably ideal on champions like j4 and talon.

Meh, I've never really like j4, but I've always seen people upgrade to Hydra. I mean the only time I've seen someone hit full build on j4 in top, they went Rengar style. Picked up all 3 ArPen items, with a hydra and a GA I think.

[Siosilvar]

I rarely build LW on Jarvan (you've got 26% armor shred already, and a Cleaver makes that 45%; LW and the 6% mastery only take you to 67% from there), but those are good items, yes. Frozen Heart is hilarious, too. If you've seen me play 40% CDR J4 bouncing around the entire enemy jungle and avoiding getting killed by three members of the enemy team while I have 200 health (it happens a lot, don't ask), you'd know.

EDIT: Hydra upgrade is incredibly cost-effective. 600 gold for 25 AD? Yes please.

Now, if you don't need the Vamp Scepter, it starts to get iffy. 1400 gold for 35 AD is significantly less good, though it makes the active hurt just a little bit more.

[ex cathedra]

EDIT: Hydra upgrade is incredibly cost-effective. 600 gold for 25 AD? Yes please.

Now, if you don't need the Vamp Scepter, it starts to get iffy. 1400 gold for 35 AD is significantly less good, though it makes the active hurt just a little bit more.

note how i specifically called out burst champions. vamp scepter is not an ideal use of your gold, and so neither is hydra, especially now that you're getting 3% or 6% lifesteal from blades. getting 35 AD and some lifesteal without potential for further upgrade seems a lot worse than 25 AD, 10 arpen, and 10% CDR with potential to finish ghostblade.

[Siosilvar]

Not sure if I misread something or what. I'm going to pretend that i was just reinforcing that your comment only applies to burst champions.

[ex cathedra]

Spoiler: LCS

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Also I feel like we as fans should be able to expect more from DL by this point, like seriously.

he's been disappointing fans for his entire career, why would he stop now? :^)

Meh, I've never really like j4, but I've always seen people upgrade to Hydra. I mean the only time I've seen someone hit full build on j4 in top, they went Rengar style. Picked up all 3 ArPen items, with a hydra and a GA I think.

many players have a very incomplete understanding of power-spikes. you obviously upgrade into hydra eventually, but finishing a relatively low-damage sustain item immediately when you only purchased tiamat in order to one-shot people in the first place seems wasteful and ignorant.

Not sure if I misread something or what. I'm going to pretend that i was just reinforcing that your comment only applies to burst champions.

i was just clarifying my point; i said that hydra upgrade is inefficient, but i only meant that in the context of champions whose primary use of tiamat is the active for burst. champions like lee sin and olaf who excel at sustained brawling and lifesteal tanking are excellent candidates for early hydras. jarvan isn't really one of those champions.

[thracian]

Brutalizer, Tiamat, finish Ghostblade, Brut, LW is the most I've ever been able to build.

[Math_Mage]

Spoiler: LCS

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Trist went 1-2 today.. LMQ won early on because people had to adjust to them, just like in NACS but they were pushed to the fifth round of a best of five to win in the NACS and now LCS teams are learning to play against them too. Also I feel like we as fans should be able to expect more from DL by this point, like seriously.

Spoiler: LCS

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Oh, right, I must have seen COL pick Tristana and automatically chalked up another loss for her. Whoops.

[Winthur]

im still learning

[Antonok]

So I probably just made the best play in my year or so of playing LoL.

Spoiler

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Lost the game but still; started to drag with the support lissandra (I'm mumu jungle). We got chased off by the enemy riven jung and thresh support. Rest of their team joins shortly thereafter. I launch a bandage at Riven and snag her, smite stealing drag right before I get to her, catching thier entire team in my ult just as soon as our ziggs launched his ult, then our adc lucian flashed over the wall and ulted for a clean up. Ended up with 4 kills while the enemy kass managed to escape. Sadly we couldn't make much of it since we were just too far behind.

[Siosilvar]

I should play during the middle of the day more. People just seem nicer, and even the ragers keep playing even if they say that they'll afk.

[Math_Mage]

Spoiler: LCS

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Can someone explain the fetish for Gragas top in NA? Far as I can tell, it's Just Bad.

[thracian]

Gragas top is a pretty strong tanky laner with very surprising damage on W and strong utility. I've lost lane to him fairly regularly.

I think it'd be more of a solo-queue pick than anything, though, which means it fits right in with NA LCS.

[TechnOkami]

Gragas top is a pretty strong tanky laner with very surprising damage on W and strong utility. I've lost lane to him fairly regularly.

I think it'd be more of a solo-queue pick than anything, though, which means it fits right in with NA LCS.

I should give this a try.

[Siosilvar]

Top, support, or jungle, Gragas is surprisingly tanky, has good CC, and his damage is still decent even after the burst nerfs that came with the rework.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Jungle Gragas is my waifu.

[Math_Mage]

I'm aware that top Gragas exists. IME, he straight-up loses to many tops without help--but let's say that's not the case, due to meta changes or nerfs or whatever. He's still extremely vulnerable to the fluid laning phase of pro teams--pick a top with more utility or tankiness, avoid standard lanes, and then Gragas has to contend with being a walking R button for the next twenty or thirty minutes, until everyone builds Banshee's Veils and he doesn't even have that. He's a safe split-farmer but not a great split-pusher. Is that really the best use of top lane?

[Nadevoc]

I've found Gragas to have a pretty decent laning phase in top. Constantly healing 4% of his max health with decent DR on Drunken Rage gives him solid sustain, he's got some pretty good damage, and he's hard to gank due to his E (and, if need be once he's 6, his R).

Can't talk a lot about LCS level since I haven't watched much LCS recently. Last I saw, though, top laner liked spending early levels in the jungle, which Gragas is relatively good at. Given that I like an early RoA on him, though, he'll probably struggle in that format.

[Math_Mage]

Spoiler: CLG vs. Dignitas

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CLG did baron and didn't throw, GG.

[Antonok]

Spoiler: Curse vs Complexity

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Go skarner!

Also loved the 'oh dear god please lock that in' when kennan got hovered over. Mirrored my exact thoughts about LCS matches lately. Same boring champs over and over.

[Farix]

Spoiler: Complexity v Curse

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What did I just watch?

[Anarion]

Spoiler: Complexity v Curse

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What did I just watch?

Rocket bug.

[Olinser]

I'm aware that top Gragas exists. IME, he straight-up loses to many tops without help--but let's say that's not the case, due to meta changes or nerfs or whatever. He's still extremely vulnerable to the fluid laning phase of pro teams--pick a top with more utility or tankiness, avoid standard lanes, and then Gragas has to contend with being a walking R button for the next twenty or thirty minutes, until everyone builds Banshee's Veils and he doesn't even have that. He's a safe split-farmer but not a great split-pusher. Is that really the best use of top lane?

He's definitely not the best top laner out there, but Gragas has good utility and control. In team fights a good ult can turn the entire fight, and his body slam and the slow on his Q means he has excellent peel and pursuit.

The big thing is that he can maintain his usefulness in a teamfight even in a lane swap scenario with little farm. His ult, stun, and slow are just as effective, and tank stats are generally less expensive than damage efficiency.

Essentially, Gragas is a teamfighting top champion. You don't take Gragas to park him in a side lane and splitpush. You take Gragas if you anticipate (or intend to initiate) a lane swap and expect him to have relatively less farm than your mid or ADC. You take Gragas to force and win team fights, preferably coupled with another high-CC support.

[Olinser]

On another note... is there something wrong with the Caitlyn shot animation? I'm watching the Complexity vs Curse game, and I noticed several times now that Caitlyn shooting at minions, the minion dies (maybe with a crit number on it), and THEN the shot goes out and hits empty air.

[Siosilvar]

On another note... is there something wrong with the Caitlyn shot animation? I'm watching the Complexity vs Curse game, and I noticed several times now that Caitlyn shooting at minions, the minion dies (maybe with a crit number on it), and THEN the shot goes out and hits empty air.

I believe it's bugged so that crits hit instantly, headshots and normal autos have the travel time as usual. Given that the last few posts about it on Reddit have been downvoted to hell, apparently this is a known bug.