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Thread: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
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2014-07-06, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Tharggy, on Tellene
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
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2014-07-06, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Get together all the epic petitioners in the neighborhood association to protest the eyesore that the wailing wall of despair is and demand it be taken down (it blocks the view of Celestia, it makes too much noise at night, it was put there without consulting the onetime mortal members of the association)
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2014-07-06, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
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2014-07-06, 03:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- Tharggy, on Tellene
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
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2014-07-06, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Okay, first of all this is baiting a bad conversation and is very close to insinuating that anyone who dislikes the wall is just unable to reconcile it with their real-life beliefs or something.
Secondly, atheists don't have 'faith' in 'science'. Just...don't go there. Just do not.
In Faerun, none of the gods are worthy of worship because they all explicitly put their personal power over the wellbeing of the countless mortals in their care. They literally had to be scolded by Big Daddy Ao over it. Why SHOULD you worship them? Belief in a deity does not automatically justify worshipping them, that's why misotheism exists.
Finally, your last paragraph ignores the complaint raised that the Wall of the Faithless LIMITS roleplaying. No one can be a sort of Buddhist/Taoist-y sort of "philosophical" cleric. Literally everyone in the setting has to pick a god or suffer horribly for it. It explicitly tells all of these characters that they might as well play because they're not going to matter.
The Wall of the Faithless also basically means there's no truly Good gods. What do the saints and the truly pure hearted do, then? Who should they worship? What about the people who, like Kelemvor, want justice in death? The world of possible characters is smaller. The roleplaying options are smaller. The range of meaningful choices for character ideology are smaller. And it paints Ao, a True Neutral entity, as basically taking the side of Evil, because the 'Good' gods are the only ones who really lose out in this set up.
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2014-07-06, 03:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
I could have sworn reading somewhere that there was a patron god of atheists somewhere in faerun's portfolio (Which would make the wall worthless).
The Wall of the Faithless also basically means there's no truly Good gods.
Finally, your last paragraph ignores the complaint raised that the Wall of the Faithless LIMITS roleplaying. No one can be a sort of Buddhist/Taoist-y sort of "philosophical" cleric.
It explicitly tells all of these characters that they might as well play because they're not going to matter.Last edited by Anlashok; 2014-07-06 at 03:25 PM.
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2014-07-06, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- Tharggy, on Tellene
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Would YOU want a character you've played for months to be turned into torture plaster when he dies? I certainly dont, i want my character to have a nice afterlife (or a horrible one if i was evil)
Personally im with Kelemvor on this, lets get our god-tier sledge hammers and get our Berlin on!!Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2014-07-06 at 03:30 PM.
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2014-07-06, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
Thread wins: 2
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2014-07-06, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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- Mexico
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
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2014-07-06, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2014
Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
In hindsight I phrased it wrong.
By the time a character is going to the afterlife for realsies, their adventure is (probably) over.
Of course I wouldn't like it, but that doesn't mean I disagree with the idea that my character doesn't matter at all if he does end up that way somehow.
But again, coulda sworn Oghma was the patron god of atheists.Last edited by Anlashok; 2014-07-06 at 03:36 PM.
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2014-07-06, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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- Mexico
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
The wall is actually evidence warblades don't exist in the realms, or at least no faithless warblades. Moment one found themself in the wall they'd IHS it away
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2014-07-06, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- Tharggy, on Tellene
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2014-07-06 at 03:39 PM.
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2014-07-06, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
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2014-07-06, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Please do! :D Don't think I've been sig-quoted yet so it is a ticklesome delight.
I thought they'd just Ancient Mountain Hammer it for a few hours, much more satisfying.
though perhaps the reason is that maybe souls of dead warblades IHS their dead condition away.
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2014-07-06, 04:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
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2014-07-06, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Well, being Dead doesn't bar you from taking actions, so . . .
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2014-07-06, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Given that the vast majority of those neighborhoods tend to be divinely morphic, not to mention surrounding you with the pro-deity folks, eternity could get awkward after awhile
Which is another thing I dislike about FR's afterlife. In Greyhawk, the gods and other major players merely inhabit this or that corner of {insert Outer Plane here.} It's possible (and likely preferable, if you are one of the "worship a philosophy" types) to find a patch of plane that is between jurisdictions and spend eternity mostly unmeddled with. Pelor, for instance, does not hold sway over the length and breadth of Elysium - rather, he lives in one particular part of it known as the Fortress of the Sun.
In FR, the afterlife destinations are literally named for the deities in charge of them - if you are sent to the House of the Triad, you are subject to those three deities at every turn. If you are assigned to the Demonweb Pits, you are under the sole jurisdiction of one.
Nothing except undermining your choice by forcibly giving you a deity anyway, or nailing you to the Wall if their eHarmony service is on the fritz.
Off-topic but I've seen this meme a lot; what people forget is that by RAW you can't be dead without being unconscious, which does block the majority of them.Last edited by Psyren; 2014-07-06 at 04:35 PM.
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2014-07-06, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Or it means the good gods can't do anything about it. D&D has always justified "How can Good stand for this?" By making the evil stronger.
This is an issue the gods, good and evil, are more or less agreed upon. The Good gods try to morally justify this unambiguously evil thing because to actually take Good to its logical conclusion means the Good Gods have to inconvenience themselves, and that's something none of them are willing to do.
Yes, if they actually did that, they'd weaken and Evil would become stronger, but that's ALL THE MORE REASON they, and the neutral gods, should be petitioning Ao about this. He's truly neutral, and his decisions are giving evil an unfair advantage in the FR universe. That's bull.
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2014-07-06, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
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2014-07-06, 05:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Plague Doctor by Crimmy
Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)
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2014-07-06, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
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2014-07-06, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
Thread wins: 2
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2014-07-06, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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2014-07-06, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
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2014-07-06, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Which, again, aren't really relevant to your state as an adventurer. Yeah, having a ****ty afterlife sucks. Yeah, I think it's stupid fluff and doesn't make any sense (especially given that Ao enforces it even though it should undermine Ao's position on worship)... I just don't think it "wrecks" atheistic adventurers.
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2014-07-06, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
You're forgetting that FR, as a setting, is basically a stage for the myths of this cosmology. For gods to take actions and have conflicts and for mortals to be their representatives. In such a setting, not only do atheist adventurers have nothing to show for their accomplishments, but they'll never really be acknowledged for them, and they will either be overridden by the next group of theistic representatives or taken credit for.
The afterlife for atheists and faithless in FR is basically a symptom of the problem that really, only the gods and high-level NPCs in Faerun matter. Everyone else has to either suck up and/or cooperate with them or basically get erased from the history books.
Also, from an in-character perspective, why should I adventure and risk my one lifetime if I'm utterly boned if something happens to me? Only people who believe in a god would have the courage to risk their lives, surely, else the adventurer is a foolhardy idiot. Again, limiting roleplaying options.
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2014-07-06, 07:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
Most people see a half orc and and think barbarian warrior. Me on the other hand? I think secondary trap handler and magic item tester. Also I'm not allowed to trick the next level one wizard into starting a fist fight with a house cat no matter how annoying he is.
Yes I know it's sarcasm. It's a joke. Pale green is for snarking
Thread wins: 2
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2014-07-06, 07:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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2014-07-06, 07:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
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2014-07-06, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
Re: Wall of the Faithless(FR)
How does the casting of an arcane spell (wish) cause the faithless to be indebted to a god?
And all Arcane magic comes from atleast one god anyway. Gods do EVERYTHING in Faerun.