[DMG Excerpt] How to create new races...*faints*

[CyberThread]

I certainly think they should have been. Bundle them together with Teiflings under the Planetouched racial group or something.

Nah, If you want to play an assimar go play 3.5 or something. 5e has clearly enough content already, and I think they should just make adventures. No need to complicate the edition, with thinks like a DM Guide or any sort of wierd little setting books. They made their money, now go back to thinking up 6th edition, while I play 5th edition.

[Easy_Lee]

Nah, If you want to play an assimar go play 3.5 or something.

Or we could just use the race like a normal person. More content doesn't "hurt" anyone. Take heart in the fact that they're pushing homebrew so hard this edition, since it may imply more of a focus on campaigns

[Tehnar]

So yeah: another of the official excerpts has appeared, and this one deals with the new races.

For those who miss the Eladrin, they now appear as an Elf subrace (much like the Drow). They retain their Fey Step, but are otherwise not so different to the High Elf.

So, why did I faint? Well, my faith in WotC has rekindled a bit more: we've got the Aasimar, in their 3e (and earlier) glory. Feel kinda cheated that they didn't choose to adapt more of the Deva, but I don't carenothing that refluffing can't handle. And, of course, no one has to be a Psion to figure it out; they are the good counterparts of Tieflings. They get better resistances, but their spells are not as awesome as the ones from the Tiefling in exchange.

So...your thoughts?

I don't see any difference between this excerpt and "make something up that you think is roughly the same as published races/subraces". Other then that I don't see any guidelines. To even create something simple as a Orc PC, let alone something "exotic" as a Ogre or a Thri-Kreen.

[Easy_Lee]

I don't see any guidelines to create something simple as a Orc PC, let alone something "exotic" as a Ogre or a Thri-Kreen.

What kind of guidelines would you like? "Keep new races at the same power level as those already published" is all I personally wanted to hear. In fact, I wish the 3.5e writers had followed that philosophy.

If you want more guidelines, perhaps that's something peopke can contribute to in the homebrew section.

[OldTrees1]

Or we could just use the race like a normal person. More content doesn't "hurt" anyone. Take heart in the fact that they're pushing homebrew so hard this edition, since it may imply more of a focus on campaigns

Either your sarcasm detector or my sarcasm detector is on the fritz. (For reference I am detecting sarcasm from CyberThread but not detecting any from you)

I don't see any difference between this excerpt and "make something up that you think is roughly the same as published races/subraces". Other then that I don't see any guidelines. To even create something simple as a Orc PC, let alone something "exotic" as a Ogre or a Thri-Kreen.

Huh, Orc is a surprisingly good point. I immediately went to Half Orc to see how to make it more Orcish, but I couldn't find anything to change(all the abilities are Orcish and +2Str/+1Con is as Orcish as the racial stats get).

[Easy_Lee]

Either your sarcasm detector or my sarcasm detector is on the fritz. (For reference I am detecting sarcasm from CyberThread but not detecting any from you)

Might be mine. I can't hear sarcasm through text unless there's an indicator of some kind (smileys are popular). Poe's law and all that.

[OldTrees1]

Might be mine. I can't hear sarcasm through text unless there's an indicator of some kind (smileys are popular). Poe's law and all that.

I used this thread as an indicator.

[mephnick]

Huh, Orc is a surprisingly good point. I immediately went to Half Orc to see how to make it more Orcish, but I couldn't find anything to change(all the abilities are Orcish and +2Str/+1Con is as Orcish as the racial stats get).

Eh, I just fluff them into full orcs and remove half-orcs, which are stupid.

I'm not sure orc rape is so prevalent in any setting that half-orc needs to be a base race.

[Hytheter]

I'm not sure orc rape is so prevalent in any setting that half-orc needs to be a base race.

Implying that all Half-Orcs come from rape
Implying that a singnificant portion of humanity wouldn't bang anything with a pulse no matter how green and toothy

[Sindeloke]

What kind of guidelines would you like? "Keep new races at the same power level as those already published" is all I personally wanted to hear. In fact, I wish the 3.5e writers had followed that philosophy.

If you want more guidelines, perhaps that's something peopke can contribute to in the homebrew section.

In 3.5 we had YabatheWhat doing Feature Points, and Pathfinder has the gloriously useless and unbalanced race builder guide. Putting together a basic point range for a balanced race and giving solid examples of what different types of features should cost is a really simple, obvious, helpful process and should not have been hard for them to give us.

[mephnick]

Implying that all Half-Orcs come from rape
Implying that a singnificant portion of humanity wouldn't bang anything with a pulse no matter how green and toothy

I suppose I am severely under-representing how varied fetishes get.

[Madfellow]

Eh, I just fluff them into full orcs and remove half-orcs, which are stupid.

I'm not sure orc rape is so prevalent in any setting that half-orc needs to be a base race.

According to the PHB, the most common sources of half-orcs are (1) mingling of human and orcish tribes, and (2) treaties solidified through marriage.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Perhaps an Orc PC would benefit from the MM Orc trait where they can dash at enemies. And perhaps something like heal-on-kill.

[mephnick]

According to the PHB, the most common sources of half-orcs are (1) mingling of human and orcish tribes, and (2) treaties solidified through marriage.

Wait..when did they make orcs not crazy evil?

Neither of those things would ever happen in a million years the way I play orcs.

[OldTrees1]

Perhaps an Orc PC would benefit from the MM Orc trait where they can dash at enemies. And perhaps something like heal-on-kill.

Yeah, I think the best bet is to have the +2Str/+1Con apply to both Half Orcs and Orcs and differentiate them by varying the abilities. ^That dash looks like a good choice (maybe replace the extra skill proficiency?).

[Sartharina]

I'm not sure orc rape is so prevalent in any setting that half-orc needs to be a base race.

Well, according to the monster manual, it's one of their divine imperatives.

Implying that all Half-Orcs come from rape

Not all... but have you read the lore of how the Orc Goddess of Fertility expects her progeny to reproduce?

Luthic is NOT a pleasant goddess.

I'd say the only difference mechanically between half-orcs and full orcs is the strength of the voice of Gruumsh in their heads.

[Tehnar]

What kind of guidelines would you like? "Keep new races at the same power level as those already published" is all I personally wanted to hear. In fact, I wish the 3.5e writers had followed that philosophy.

If you want more guidelines, perhaps that's something peopke can contribute to in the homebrew section.

Personally I would like a point buy system for races that allows me to build races from scratch. Something like +2 to a ability score is worth X points, skill proficiency is worth Y points, etc. With ways to play the more "exotic" races like Ogres, Pixies or Thri-Kreen.

What we have though is a entire page of text that amounts to "Meh, just eyeball it." If I wanted to make a Orc PC race (note that is the simplest kind of PC race to make, since Orcs are intelligent humanoids of medium size) that entire page contained no useful information. None. In other words if you made a Orc PC race before reading that page, you would not change anything after reading it.

[OldTrees1]

Personally I would like a point buy system for races that allows me to build races from scratch. Something like +2 to a ability score is worth X points, skill proficiency is worth Y points, etc. With ways to play the more "exotic" races like Ogres, Pixies or Thri-Kreen.

What we have though is a entire page of text that amounts to "Meh, just eyeball it." If I wanted to make a Orc PC race (note that is the simplest kind of PC race to make, since Orcs are intelligent humanoids of medium size) that entire page contained no useful information. None. In other words if you made a Orc PC race before reading that page, you would not change anything after reading it.

Well, it did give the 1st rule of homebrewing "Compare it to something else/use a model" so I would not call it void of useful information. I think that plus a discussion about the assumptions the game designers made would be more than sufficient for 5E(keeping the "DMs should trust themselves more than us" RAW).

[Forum Explorer]

What we have though is a entire page of text that amounts to "Meh, just eyeball it." If I wanted to make a Orc PC race (note that is the simplest kind of PC race to make, since Orcs are intelligent humanoids of medium size) that entire page contained no useful information. None. In other words if you made a Orc PC race before reading that page, you would not change anything after reading it.

We have an excerpt of how to make a race. Maybe there is a section immediately after labeled 'Making Exotic Races'.

Of course it didn't give much useful information, it's an advertisement. Presumably the book has more on the subject.

[rollingForInit]

Feel really hyped to play an Aasimar. There's one thing about the description that doesn't go with the selected stats, though. They say that Aasimars should be great as Paladins or Clerics, but Strength is conspicuously missing as an ability score bonus. While strength is only important to some Cleric builds, it's an essential stat for almost every Paladin. Since you cannot buy yourself to 16, I'd change the ability score bonus to something like: +1 Str, and choose +2 Wis or +2 Cha ... or: +2 Cha, and choose +1 Wis or +1 Str.

I really like that they're giving us great examples on how to build new races.

Personally I would like a point buy system for races that allows me to build races from scratch. Something like +2 to a ability score is worth X points, skill proficiency is worth Y points, etc. With ways to play the more "exotic" races like Ogres, Pixies or Thri-Kreen.

What we have though is a entire page of text that amounts to "Meh, just eyeball it." If I wanted to make a Orc PC race (note that is the simplest kind of PC race to make, since Orcs are intelligent humanoids of medium size) that entire page contained no useful information. None. In other words if you made a Orc PC race before reading that page, you would not change anything after reading it.

That would be really difficult, though. It'd be easy to count ability score increses and skills as such, but it'd be much, much more difficult to count when combining resistances, bonuses and spells with other features. Some spells might have amazing synergy either among themselves or with other abilities, and would as such be much more powerful, whereas some features and spells might not really do much combined, but just be cool on their own. You'd end up having to decide what is worth how many points on your own anyway. Using the existing races as an example is probably the best and easiest way to go, since the races that exist are very varied.

[Sindeloke]

That would be really difficult, though. It'd be easy to count ability score increses and skills as such, but it'd be much, much more difficult to count when combining resistances, bonuses and spells with other features. Some spells might have amazing synergy either among themselves or with other abilities, and would as such be much more powerful, whereas some features and spells might not really do much combined, but just be cool on their own. You'd end up having to decide what is worth how many points on your own anyway. Using the existing races as an example is probably the best and easiest way to go, since the races that exist are very varied.

That sounds exactly like something that would go in the guide. "+2 Int is worth 6 points, but remember if you give the species a spell that keys off Int, you've made a combination worth more than its parts. In this case a good guideline is to increase the price of both features by 50%."

It doesn't have to be perfect. Guideposts to start from, though, would still be a hell of a lot more useful than "make some stuff up that feels balanced."

[Sartharina]

That sounds exactly like something that would go in the guide. "+2 Int is worth 6 points, but remember if you give the species a spell that keys off Int, you've made a combination worth more than its parts. In this case a good guideline is to increase the price of both features by 50%."

That would be hellish to work with and stupid. There are very few ways to determine if something is greater or less than the sum of its parts... especially because the developers probably don't know the way their system's metagame will develop.

Of course, maybe I just have mental scars from Pathfinder's Feat Point and Race Builder bull****.

[Sindeloke]

More stupid and hellish than "whatever, just pick some numbers and talents that look sorta right"?

If two things benefit or reinforce each other (like an Int bonus and an Int spell, or a bonus to movement and a bonus to attack when you move), they're probably worth more together than individually. If two things apply to totally different parts of the system (a Str bonus and a stealth bonus) they're probably worth the same together or apart. It's not particularly difficult to eyeball if you're familiar enough with the game to DM to begin with.

Again, it doesn't have to be perfect. Just a guideline to at least start from.

And I mean it couldn't be worse than Pathfinder's race points....

[INDYSTAR188]

Personally I would like a point buy system for races that allows me to build races from scratch. Something like +2 to a ability score is worth X points, skill proficiency is worth Y points, etc. With ways to play the more "exotic" races like Ogres, Pixies or Thri-Kreen.

What we have though is a entire page of text that amounts to "Meh, just eyeball it." If I wanted to make a Orc PC race (note that is the simplest kind of PC race to make, since Orcs are intelligent humanoids of medium size) that entire page contained no useful information. None. In other words if you made a Orc PC race before reading that page, you would not change anything after reading it.

They released a one page preview, how do you know the very next page isn't a template for you to use? Maybe they got responses in the playtest that indicated to them that 'exotic' race creation/inclusion is not a priority for most players. Can we wait until the DMG is released to declare whether it contains any useful information? I'm pretty excited about Eladrin and Aasimar and at least for me that is really good news.

As an aside, why would you want to play an Ogre or Thri-Kreen? To be clear, I am not judging a player who wants to play a monster, I just don't see the appeal and am trying to empathize. One is a huge, dumb rapacious brute and the other is a hive-minded ant-man is it not? I thought the benefit to playing a Thri-Kreen in 3.5 was to get the extra arm attacks, which sounds pretty unbalanced compared to the other available races at this point.

[Sartharina]

And I mean it couldn't be worse than Pathfinder's race points....

Yes it could.

[Safety Sword]

As an aside, why would you want to play an Ogre or Thri-Kreen? To be clear, I am not judging a player who wants to play a monster, I just don't see the appeal and am trying to empathize. One is a huge, dumb rapacious brute and the other is a hive-minded ant-man is it not? I thought the benefit to playing a Thri-Kreen in 3.5 was to get the extra arm attacks, which sounds pretty unbalanced compared to the other available races at this point.

Every time there's a Dark Sun campaign on offer at my table these are the go to races.

[Rfkannen]

They released a one page preview, how do you know the very next page isn't a template for you to use? Maybe they got responses in the playtest that indicated to them that 'exotic' race creation/inclusion is not a priority for most players. Can we wait until the DMG is released to declare whether it contains any useful information? I'm pretty excited about Eladrin and Aasimar and at least for me that is really good news.

As an aside, why would you want to play an Ogre or Thri-Kreen? To be clear, I am not judging a player who wants to play a monster, I just don't see the appeal and am trying to empathize. One is a huge, dumb rapacious brute and the other is a hive-minded ant-man is it not? I thought the benefit to playing a Thri-Kreen in 3.5 was to get the extra arm attacks, which sounds pretty unbalanced compared to the other available races at this point.

Because they are even weirder. Some styles like the huge big guy and like the raw savagry, also come on half orc or ogre,which would you really pick? Also THri-kreen are just filled to the brim with flavor. They have flavor up the yin-yang. I don't care about the arms, being a sleepless bugman is just to awesome to not play!

[INDYSTAR188]

Because they are even weirder. Some styles like the huge big guy and like the raw savagry, also come on half orc or ogre,which would you really pick? Also THri-kreen are just filled to the brim with flavor. They have flavor up the yin-yang. I don't care about the arms, being a sleepless bugman is just to awesome to not play!

But realistically (I know, I know we're talking about elf games here) can you imagine an Ogre or Thri-Kreen being at all useful in a social situation? Could you imagine either of those monsters striding up to the gates of Waterdeep? Why would an Ogre or Thri-Kreen want to help/save humanity?

[Rfkannen]

But realistically (I know, I know we're talking about elf games here) can you imagine an Ogre or Thri-Kreen being at all useful in a social situation? Could you imagine either of those monsters striding up to the gates of Waterdeep? Why would an Ogre or Thri-Kreen want to help/save humanity?

Well you could have your own setting, one where ogres aren't all that hated. For example pretty much everyone gets along in eberron. And darksun you have thri-kreen as one of the main races, it would be weird to not see any. For example My dm's current campaign has a bunch of hobgoblins in the main cities. and as such it is safe to assume that if any of us rolled a hobgoblin no one would care. Now I don't think he would let me roll a hobgoblin but in the setting noone would care if I was a hobgoblin any more than if I were an elf.

[Gnaeus]

But realistically (I know, I know we're talking about elf games here) can you imagine an Ogre or Thri-Kreen being at all useful in a social situation? Could you imagine either of those monsters striding up to the gates of Waterdeep? Why would an Ogre or Thri-Kreen want to help/save humanity?

Uhh, because every campaign is different? An Ogre striding up to the gates of Menzoberanzan might be in a better place socially than a human. Maybe the campaign is about saving races from the genocidal Eco-catastrophe that is the humans.

If it doesn't make sense to use your space Legos with your medieval Legos, then don't. I just want more cool building blocks, and I will use the ones I like.