Magic the Gathering XX: KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANS!!!

[JustPlayItLoud]

So I priced that first suggested "rdw" deck on a singles website (starcitygames.com, does anyone know a better/cheaper place?), except for the absurdly expensive Goblin Rabblemasters, and it came to just under $80 with shipping, so well within my price range. Assuming I don't come up with an idea I like better in the next week or so I'll probably pull the trigger.

Does anyone else have ideas for fairly inexpensive but decent decks? I looked at Jeskai Ascendancy, but most of the popular combos in those decks require some pretty expensive rares, so I'll probably pass on it.

What options are there for blue? I only ask because of all the Magic players I've ever know, none of them ever play blue.

[IthilanorStPete]

On the subject of deck recommendations, what would be a good Standard deck that runs ~$250? I tend to prefer controlling decks, but there doesn't seem to be a good blue control deck in the meta at the moment, and I can adapt to other types of decks.

[IcemanJRC]

So I priced that first suggested "rdw" deck on a singles website (starcitygames.com, does anyone know a better/cheaper place?), except for the absurdly expensive Goblin Rabblemasters, and it came to just under $80 with shipping, so well within my price range. Assuming I don't come up with an idea I like better in the next week or so I'll probably pull the trigger.

Does anyone else have ideas for fairly inexpensive but decent decks? I looked at Jeskai Ascendancy, but most of the popular combos in those decks require some pretty expensive rares, so I'll probably pass on it.

What options are there for blue? I only ask because of all the Magic players I've ever know, none of them ever play blue.

Starcity is the biggest so they'll have the best availability, ChannelFireball, CoolStuffInc, FaceToFace Games, all are sometimes cheaper.

[Ninjaman]

On the subject of deck recommendations, what would be a good Standard deck that runs ~$250? I tend to prefer controlling decks, but there doesn't seem to be a good blue control deck in the meta at the moment, and I can adapt to other types of decks.

Blue black control is a deck and is probably around that price. To be fair I think pretty much everything besides abzan is within 250$.

Edit: Searched a bit on TCGPLAYER, and a couple deck times were above 250, these seem to be the avarage deck prices:
Abzan Midrange: 550$
Jeskai tempo: 350$
Mardu control/midrange: 400$
Temur midrange: 250$
Green-black midrange/whip: 350$
Green-red midrange:350$
Monogreen devotion:300$
Red deck wins: 130$ with rabblemaster, 70$ without.
Esper control: 450$
UB control: 250$
Blackwhite aggro: 250$ (much more expensive with brimaz)
Abzan aggro: 400$
Monoblack aggro: 250$ with thoughtsieze, 150$ without.
Abzan whip: 350$
Jeskai ascendency combo: 250$
Mardu Tokens: 400$
Naya midrange/walkers: 500$
UW heroic: 150$
Jeskai tokens: 350$
Sidisi whip: 300$

UB control hits both your playstyle and budget very well.

[Sith_Happens]

(starcitygames.com, does anyone know a better/cheaper place?)

TCGPlayer.com is a marketplace rather than a single store so it's easy to get the best possible deal on a large cart (as long as you aren't too careless about accumulating shipping fees, of course).

[sonofzeal]

Yet another deck I'm working on....


Black Enchantments.

The idea is to layer up static enchantments that, hopefully, tilt the battlefield more and more in your favour.

Bitterblossom makes a steady stream of creature tokens.
Grave Pact lets my tokens trade 1/1 for enemy creatures.
Bloodchief Ascension keeps my health up, once it gets going.

Beyond that, it's easy to come up with other black enchantments that synergize with a lot of weenie tokens, either for sacrifice effects (Recurring Nightmare, Contamination), or triggers on death (Quest of the Gravelord), or triggers on entry (Death Match). However, I feel I need a bit more to deter early aggression, to stabilize life points, and to generate even more tokens. Creakwood Liege works as the latter, at least, but as the deck falls apart rather spectacularly without tokens to field, more is always helpful.

Can a deck like this work?

[Mystic Muse]

Is there a good cheap way to filter colorless mana into green mana? I'm trying to build a deck that needs 4 green mana by turn 2.

EDIT: Anything not an un-set is legal, as long as I actually own it, so Black lotuses are out of the question for this.

[IcemanJRC]

Is there a good cheap way to filter colorless mana into green mana? I'm trying to build a deck that needs 4 green mana by turn 2.

EDIT: Anything not an un-set is legal, as long as I actually own it, so Black lotuses are out of the question for this.

Gemstone Array, converts at 2 to one and costs 4 though. You can filter green into other colors with Orochi Leafcaller or colorless into black or red or white with Bog Initiate, Farrelite Priest, or Skyshroud Elf. But nothing like what you want.

Elvish Mystic and co. with an Elvish Spirit Guide would accomplish that though.

[Mystic Muse]

Gemstone Array, converts at 2 to one and costs 4 though. You can filter green into other colors with Orochi Leafcaller or colorless into black or red or white with Bog Initiate, Farrelite Priest, or Skyshroud Elf. But nothing like what you want.

Elvish Mystic and co. with an Elvish Spirit Guide would accomplish that though.

Well, thanks for the help anyway.

Trying to cast channel into Tooth and Nail ASAP with as few cards as possible, but need 4 green mana, since channel can't make colored mana.

[IthilanorStPete]

Well, thanks for the help anyway.

Trying to cast channel into Tooth and Nail ASAP with as few cards as possible, but need 4 green mana, since channel can't make colored mana.

Manamorphose would convert one colorless into green, at least. I'd probably aim for a turn 3 T&N, with a possibility of turn 2 if you use a mana elf on turn 1 + a Chrome Mox/Elvish Spirit Guide. There's also Hickory Woodlot.

[Mystic Muse]

The only problem with turn 3 is that it makes the odds of my opponents having countermagic much more likely.

I think the way to do it with as little investment as possible is actually fetchland into stomping grounds, play Orcish lumberjack for 4 green mana on turn 2, regardless of what else I do.

I don't think my opponents will have any idea that an orcish lumberjack of all things is a threat until it's too late.

[Eldariel]

The only problem with turn 3 is that it makes the odds of my opponents having countermagic much more likely.

I think the way to do it with as little investment as possible is actually fetchland into stomping grounds, play Orcish lumberjack for 4 green mana on turn 2, regardless of what else I do.

I don't think my opponents will have any idea that an orcish lumberjack of all things is a threat until it's too late.

I mean, that card is absurdly powerful on raw power level so I wouldn't be surprised if it raised a few eyebrows :) But certainly, for turn 2 GGGG you could do worse. Gaea's Cradle with some free/cheap dudes is the other thing I can think of. Mana elf and two lands plus Elvish Spirit Guide/Lotus Petal/equivalent would be a third one. It's also possible to accelerate colorless (with the usual stuff, Ancient Tombs, City of Traitors, whatever) and convert it into green (or make everything castable with colorless or whatever) with stuff like Gilded Lotus, Mycosynth Lattice or whatever.

[sonofzeal]

I think I've got my Enchantment deck sorted out, mostly.

Spoiler

Show

4 Bitterblossom
1 Mogis, God of Slaughter
2 Quest for the Gravelord
4 Grave Pact
2 Contamination
2 Recurring Nightmare
2 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Bad Moon
3 Oona's Gatewarden
4 Doom Blade
1 Reckless Spite
16 Swamp
4 Tainted Peak
3 Dragonskull Summit
1 Grave Titan
4 Creakwood Liege
2 Thrill-Kill Assassin
4 Gravestorm

Rules question:

Against an Eldrazi deck, he was attacking with an "It That Betrays" and... something else. Plus bajillion and trample on both. Annihilator kicks in, making me sacrifice two Bitterblossom faerie rogue tokens. I had Grave Pact out.

What's the order of events here? Does he sacrifice two, then gain the tokens? Or can he gain the tokens first, then sacrifice them?

Also, may I note how fun it is to have Contamination + Bitterblossom + Grave Pact out? Or multiple Gravestorms?

[Tesla_pasta]

-snip-

What's the order of events here? Does he sacrifice two, then gain the tokens? Or can he gain the tokens first, then sacrifice them?

-snip-

When the eldrazi attack, they have a triggered ability (anihilator) that goes on the stack. When it resolves, you sacrifice X permanents. If you sacrifice any creatures this way, both It that Betrays AND Grave Pact trigger at the same time, and are put on the stack STARTING with the active player (your opponent, since its his turn) then going in turn order of all non-active players (just you in this case). Since your ability went on the stack LAST, it resolves FIRST. Grave pact forces your opponent to sacrifice the same number of creatures, so they will need to sac 2 creatures. After he has finished sacrificing creatures, his It That Betrays ability resolves and he gets all of the permanents YOU sacrificed to the anihilator ability. Normally he'd get your creatures, but since they are tokens, they just vanish once they leave the battlefield and he just gets any NON-TOKEN things you sac'd.

It's important to note that if you sac a creature during YOUR turn to try to kill It That Betrays, he WILL get any NON-TOKEN creatures you sac'd BEFORE grave pact resolves and can totally use your stuff to sac to grave pact.


TL'DR-- He sacs to grave pact BEFORE he gets anything from It That Betrays, as long as it is HIS TURN. He will NOT get any faerie tokens regardless of who's turn it is, since they cease to exist after leaving the battlefield.

[Sith_Happens]

Well, thanks for the help anyway.

Trying to cast channel into Tooth and Nail ASAP with as few cards as possible, but need 4 green mana, since channel can't make colored mana.

The original filter lands make {color}{other color} for {1}{T}. Mossfire Valley and Sungrass Prairie are the ones that make green.

[Tychris1]

Well, thanks for the help anyway.

Trying to cast channel into Tooth and Nail ASAP with as few cards as possible, but need 4 green mana, since channel can't make colored mana.

Eladamri's Vineyard gives you two green mana during your first main phase, which with two forests gives you 4 green mana total. Enough for a Turn 2 Tooth and Nail. Problem is that it gives your opponent two green mana aswell. That's about all I can give you.

[mrcarter11]

I was looking at the tri color stuff and had a few questions.
Some of them peaked my interest, and while I'm already building/playing a Mardu deck, I was curious about how the other I liked could compete with more current decks/meta.
Grixis, Jund, and Jeskai were the ones that I was most curious about. Any thoughts, suggestions, or assistance is appreciated.

Sidenote, is there anything that does what Doubling Season does, for stuff on the enemy player's side of the board.

[IthilanorStPete]

I was looking at the tri color stuff and had a few questions.
Some of them peaked my interest, and while I'm already building/playing a Mardu deck, I was curious about how the other I liked could compete with more current decks/meta.
Grixis, Jund, and Jeskai were the ones that I was most curious about. Any thoughts, suggestions, or assistance is appreciated.

Grixis and Jund aren't really supported by Khans; Khans is focusing on the "wedges", made of one color and its two enemies. The closest to traditional Jund decks in current Standard are Abzan decks, which use the same grindy midrange gameplan. Straight UB control is a deck, though not a terribly good one.

Sidenote, is there anything that does what Doubling Season does, for stuff on the enemy player's side of the board.

Primal Vigor is closest to that. There's also Vorel for affecting one permanent at a time.

[Mystic Muse]

Eladamri's Vineyard gives you two green mana during your first main phase, which with two forests gives you 4 green mana total. Enough for a Turn 2 Tooth and Nail. Problem is that it gives your opponent two green mana aswell. That's about all I can give you.

Huh. That, and magus of the vineyard would actually work really well, thanks.

[mrcarter11]

Grixis and Jund aren't really supported by Khans; Khans is focusing on the "wedges", made of one color and its two enemies. The closest to traditional Jund decks in current Standard are Abzan decks, which use the same grindy midrange gameplan. Straight UB control is a deck, though not a terribly good one.



Primal Vigor is closest to that. There's also Vorel for affecting one permanent at a time.

I wasn't trying to ask if they were supported, I fully understand the color separation between them, my apologies if I worded something poorly somewhere. I just meant in general how the 3 that I lack experience with: play, handle in the current meta, still see competitive play at all... That sort of thing.

As another aside, the next set to come out is supposed to focus much more on duo color cards rather than tri, so majority of them should be at least splashable into the shard decks, shouldn't they? For instance, Mardu cards could be used in Grixis, Naya and Jund?

[IcemanJRC]

I wasn't trying to ask if they were supported, I fully understand the color separation between them, my apologies if I worded something poorly somewhere. I just meant in general how the 3 that I lack experience with: play, handle in the current meta, still see competitive play at all... That sort of thing.

As another aside, the next set to come out is supposed to focus much more on duo color cards rather than tri, so majority of them should be at least splashable into the shard decks, shouldn't they? For instance, Mardu cards could be used in Grixis, Naya and Jund?

Currently no Grixis or Jund decks have placed consistently, though certain strategies could be implemented, if you wanted to pioneer them. Jeskai currently operates as either a Tempo/Burn, Token, or Combo deck. The most consistently placed deck is Tempo/Burn that plays to get in early damage quickly and close the game out from an opponent at 12-8 with Burn spells. Token is significantly less played and the Combo deck is generally not good. I played Jeskai at a GP this weekend, I can walk you through the decks if you want, unless this is enough for you.

[mrcarter11]

I wouldn't be upset at a more detailed breakdown of the Tempo-Burn deck, it sounds like something I'm use to playing.

[sonofzeal]

TL'DR-- He sacs to grave pact BEFORE he gets anything from It That Betrays, as long as it is HIS TURN. He will NOT get any faerie tokens regardless of who's turn it is, since they cease to exist after leaving the battlefield.

Huh! Thanks!

Any feedback on the deck?

[Sith_Happens]

Huh! Thanks!

Technical nitpick: The tokens cease to exist upon entering the graveyard, not upon leaving the battlefield. Otherwise they wouldn't be considered to have "died" and Grave Pact wouldn't trigger in the first place.

[gooddragon1]

Current Modern Deck (Budget)

Spoiler

Show

22 Lands
==
22 Swamp

12 Creatures
==
4x Mindlash Sliver
4x Ravenous Rats
4x Rotting Rats

26 Other
==
2x Scepter of Fugue
2x Funeral Charm
3x Liliana's Caress
3x Bone Splinters
4x Raven's Crime
4x Vampiric Link
4x Shrieking Affliction
4x Quest for the Nihil Stone

[Sith_Happens]

Current Modern Deck (Budget)

Spoiler

Show

22 Lands
==
22 Swamp

12 Creatures
==
4x Mindlash Sliver
4x Ravenous Rats
4x Rotting Rats

26 Other
==
2x Scepter of Fugue
2x Funeral Charm
3x Liliana's Caress
3x Bone Splinters
4x Raven's Crime
4x Vampiric Link
4x Shrieking Affliction
4x Quest for the Nihil Stone

I think your 8-Rack is missing four Racks.

[gooddragon1]

I think your 8-Rack is missing four Racks.

I wish, very hard, but note the term [budget]. I can only hope they reprint shrieking affliction with a different name and the same effects in a future set.

[Mystic Muse]

Assuming you're in the US, there's a playset (actually 5) on Ebay right now for $6.

You can probably get a playset for only a bit over what a standard pack would cost you on http://www.tcgplayer.com/ TCGPlayer, who have always been very good in my experience.

[gooddragon1]

Assuming you're in the US, there's a playset (actually 5) on Ebay right now for $6.

You can probably get a playset for only a bit over what a standard pack would cost you on http://www.tcgplayer.com/ TCGPlayer, who have always been very good in my experience.

I should clarify, this is my mtgo deck. Dojo bots sells them for 9$+ each (and they sell cards on the cheap generally). This whole deck costs < 3$.

EDIT: Is that elesh norn?

[Sith_Happens]

EDIT: Is that elesh norn?

If you mean her avatar, it sure looks like it to me.