OOTS #991 - The Discussion Thread

[drazen]

This is probably a really stupid theory, but...

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Kraagor was a barbarian dwarf. Could he have been Durkon's real father? I'm not sure how the sergeant would've been involved in trying to pull him out of the rift since Serini was a halfling (pictured in the diary and crayon pictures), but since their only likely healer was a paladin (who could have had Restoration, not but not Regeneration, from what I looked up on d20 - I'm no expert though), that would leave her without an arm if something went wrong and they all split up. The dwarves always talk of a war, but a war against whom? Or against what? If it involved the world-destroying Snarl, that might be the sort of thing you don't tell your dwarf kid, since he'd just worry about it ... and if Durkon's lineage relates to the Gates, then would that somehow help their diviners determine he would bring death and destruction to the dwarven lands?

And now I see someone posted a much more sensible theory -- which I also thought might be true but it seemed too obvious. Also, if he is Durkon's real father, what happened between him and the sergeant that she keeps turning him down? (I can think of maybe one reason, but it seems way too dark and out of tone with OOTS).

[happycrow]

I think it's interesting that Durkon is able to get Durkula's goat and goad him into responses.

[The Giant]

One of the soldiers lost his hair color in panel 2 of the crayon.

No, he just has white hair. Presume there are 10-15 soldiers in the squad, but it is virtually impossible to draw that many in a scene using crayons.

This also answers the "Where's the cleric?" nitpick. Feel free to assume there is a low-level cleric on the squad somewhere if it makes you feel better, but not one powerful enough to impact the outcome of the battle.

[Mad Humanist]

It seems reasonable to assume that there are multiple versions of this story and Durkon fished up the one that was of least use to Hel. And this least useful version is not necessarily the most truthful one.

[Shining Wrath]

Not at all surprised that Durkon's father died a hero.

Why HPoH wanted to know that prior to the Godsmoot is an interesting question.

"Hel will have her due". This does sound like she is looking for equal treatment with the other gods - in other words, Hel and Redcloak have similar goals. Which may, in fact, be at odds with one another.

If a mustache be defined as hair on the upper lip, the HPoH seems to be well-stashed with 'stache. There's plenty of hair above his smile in the penultimate panel. But it's too short to twirl in the Snidley Whiplash manner; would longer subnasal foilage itch more than short?

[lonewolf1210]

The dwarves always talk of a war, but a war against whom? Or against what?

This is very much explained: Dwarves fight endless bloody wars against the trees.

[Lord Raziere]

And now I see someone posted a much more sensible theory -- which I also thought might be true but it seemed too obvious. Also, if he is Durkon's real father, what happened between him and the sergeant that she keeps turning him down? (I can think of maybe one reason, but it seems way too dark and out of tone with OOTS).

1. Malack being a vampire was considered "too obvious". look how that turned out. I wasn't surprised by that revelation at all I mean....white scales.....red eyes...really I'm not sure if The Giant is the kind of writer to throw out pointless red herrings for no reason.

2. who knows? all my theory says that Hoskins is his father, not WHY or the arm got offed. thats something for another comic. I don't have all the information, I'm just saying the part that I can figure out.

[Quild]

I believe the runes in panel 3 translates as "home sweet home" :D

There's also a painting of a dwarf fighting a dragon, interesting.

HPoH could be willing to release the monster, but that would kill many dwarves... in battle. Not very helping.
Maybe he was interesting by the friendness fondness some dwarves have for fungus? You can get sick from those.

[Psyren]

A seat seems to small an ambition considering her long humiliation. Based on her last speech, Thor crippled/subservient for all the dead that were 'rightfully' her's is at least a part of it.

Agreed, it likely goes far beyond just equality and into dominance, much like the Dark One's ambitions. But if the Dark One's plan is farfetched and wacky, this one is even more inscrutable.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

His name was Tenrin. Yay! I like that name.

[Bulldog Psion]

Great comic!

Too bad everything Durkon learned about his dad is probably a lie...

[drazen]

2. who knows? all my theory says that Hoskins is his father, not WHY or the arm got offed. thats something for another comic. I don't have all the information, I'm just saying the part that I can figure out.

The thing I can't figure out is that if his uncle is telling him his father was a kind, gentle person, either Hoskins is his father but isn't that kind or gentle (he keeps getting turned down so there must be a reason for that), or Hoskins isn't his father.

I've also been trying to interpret the crayon story as a metaphor but can't really come up with a good one Durkon's mom wouldn't want him to know about.

[ti'esar]

From his accent, Thirden is clearly not local

Huh, that's interesting. I didn't consciously pick up on that.

I wonder if it was just to make the story more intelligible, or if there's some actual character background involved.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

I'll go for the long shot and say that, nope, that is the story of how Tenrin died, and that Tenrin is, in fact, Durkon's father.

Durkon's mom doesn't want to talk about it because it was the time she lost her husband, her arm, and some of her squad; all in one day.

Surely there are some details missing, but I'll go out on a limb that all that we have been told is true. There are just important things we haven't been told.

[Hecuba]

The consecration of a lock of hair to serve as remains seems like it might, at some later point, be important in regards to resolving the current disposition of Durkon's remains.
The fact that the priest on the left is alarmed by the lack of miscarriage is also interesting.

Incidentally, is that Hurak? I don't have On the Origin of PCs handy to double check.

[Emperordaniel]

Elan was right - it IS neat to see more crayon drawings!

[Keltest]

The consecration of a lock of hair to serve as remains seems like it might, at some later point, be important in regards to resolving the current disposition of Durkon's remains.
The fact that the priest on the left is alarmed by the lack of miscarriage is also interesting.

Incidentally, is that Hurak? I don't have On the Origin of PCs handy to double check.

I don't think the priest is alarmed, just surprised. Unless the damage she took was such that the baby should have been killed in 16 different ways, the priest has little reason to be alarmed at his survival. And if it was that much damage, I think Durkon might actually be a vampire or something!

[Emperordaniel]

I think Durkon might actually be a vampire or something!

I hate to break it to you, but...

[Lissou]

Since this is a crayons story, it may not have happened this way, which could be why Durkon chose to share this specific version with Durkula. Which could mean Durkon does know the truth now, as an adult (or does at least know that this version wasn't quite true).

I wonder what his mother is hiding. And I wonder if Thirden was honest or not. He could be lying to Durkon, but he could also be telling what he believes to be the truth, but actually isn't.

At any rate, I enjoyed the update.

[Peelee]

I'm not so sure that The dwarf portrayed as Durkon's father isn't, in fact, his biological father; that his mother adamantly refused to remarry is a bit telling of eternal fidelity.

[Kantaki]

Great comic!

Too bad everything Durkon learned about his dad is probably a lie...

I think the word lie might be to big there. Sure Thriden didn't give Durkon the full story about Sigdi and Tenrin but I think the basic story is true. Tenrin and Sigdi were married, Tenrin is Ds father, their unit fought something, he died in the same battle that took Sigdis arm. Now the parts he didn't talk about might be very significant to the story and might change it completely but not telling the full truth isn't the same as telling a lie. Of course Thriden only can tell the story he knows so even if he gave Durkon the full story there might be missing pieces.

[Auburn Bright]

Durkon's mom doesn't want to talk about it because it was the time she lost her husband, her arm, and some of her squad; all in one day.

That was my first assumption, and it still makes the most sense to me.

I didn't find anything odd about her not wanting to talk about it, but Durkon asking why makes me wonder if there's another reason that's going to be revealed... if so, I'm eager to hear it, but if not the story still works.

[Zarzar]

Wild Speculation:

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If we add think somewhat mathematically, Durkon is roughly 0 years old in this one. If he's roughly 18 or so when he's in Cleric school, and he's been bald for 40 years, it might make sense that this half-dragon troll could have been part of the maze of Kraagor's Gate, given that it was 60-odd years ago when the gates were originally made. What if the dwarven team saw all sorts of baddies in that cave, and the dwarven authorities forbade everyone of speaking of what actually happened after the cave was ordered collapsed? I bet Sigdi was devastated that her love was sent to die in a suicide mission, and she'll never have her arm regenerated because she doesn't ever want to forget the dark cost of dwarven duty. Also, finding Kraagor's gate might lead to Durkon's father's remains (plus or minus an arm).

Also, Hoskin is likely not Durkon's father, but just really likes strong, gruff women. I mean, he is a dwarf after all, I bet that's a common attraction.

[Lethologica]

Not at all surprised that Durkon's father died a hero.

Why HPoH wanted to know that prior to the Godsmoot is an interesting question.

"The details don't interest me at all, but yes, I'm glad to have one less question hanging unanswered. Once the Godsmoot begins, I will need to focus on the task at hand. I don't want to waste any energy satisfying idle curiosity."

Methinks the vampire doth protest too much.

Also:

Wild Speculation:

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If we add think somewhat mathematically, Durkon is roughly 0 years old in this one. If he's roughly 18 or so when he's in Cleric school, and he's been bald for 40 years, it might make sense that this half-dragon troll could have been part of the maze of Kraagor's Gate, given that it was 60-odd years ago when the gates were originally made. What if the dwarven team saw all sorts of baddies in that cave, and the dwarven authorities forbade everyone of speaking of what actually happened after the cave was ordered collapsed? I bet Sigdi was devastated that her love was sent to die in a suicide mission, and she'll never have her arm regenerated because she doesn't ever want to forget the dark cost of dwarven duty. Also, finding Kraagor's gate might lead to Durkon's father's remains (plus or minus an arm).

Also, Hoskin is likely not Durkon's father, but just really likes strong, gruff women. I mean, he is a dwarf after all, I bet that's a common attraction.

Best theory.

[Nawaki]

I love those wild speculation :D I could never come up with something like that ^^
And also great comic ^^ naturally

[Angband]

Maybe we'll channel some South Park here, and Durkon's father will actually turn out to be...

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...Durkon's Mother!

DUN! Dun! DUNNNN!

[LuisDantas]

It seems reasonable to assume that there are multiple versions of this story and Durkon fished up the one that was of least use to Hel. And this least useful version is not necessarily the most truthful one.

Given that Durkon has learned that the Vampire lacks access t his memories beyond the most superficial level and as much as said that he will used that knowledge as a trump, I think you are right.

I assume for the time being that Durkon knows that Roy would know better than take this version of the tale at face value - perhaps he learned later that Hoskin is indeed his biological father and told Roy at some point, but the Vampire does not know of that?

[colanderman]

Whose sibling is Thirden?

"Your father? I don't really know. The five of us didn't become friends with your mother until right before you were born."

If he was Sigdi's brother, why would he become friends with her?

If he was Tenrin's brother, why would he not know what he was like?

Thirden's response would make more sense if the question were "Why was Ma in love with Pa?", but Durkon asked the more general "What was 'e like?".

Color me confused...

[dsollen]

I agree that most likely there are details to that story not yet shared which will come up, the narriration pretty much screams it.

However, I don't think paternity issues are the secret. Remember Uncle squeeky at one points reference to durkon's father, before correcting himself to say sapper. I think that is pretty strong evidence that the Uncle at least believes dunkons father is the same 'sapper' married to his mother. That or he intentionally put in an 'accidental' slip up just to sell his lie even more; which seems awfully extreme thing to do to lie to your nephew who has no reason to doubt you to begin with.

Thus I'm pretty sure that the Uncle at least believes Durkon's paternity. That doesn't mean that the Uncle couldn't be wrong, but at that point there is little reason to believe false paternity. I get a feeling the Uncle knows the fully story, and knows exactly what details he is leaving out that his mother doesn't want Durkon to know. If that is the case then whatever detail the Uncle is leaving out aren't about paternity but something else.

[theasl]

Maybe they are not related to Tenrin either, and Durkon calls them "uncles" out of consideration?

Could be - many of our Earth cultures use "aunt" and "uncle" as honorific for unrelated adults, so I can't imagine the OOTS world being too different.