Skill Focus is OP! Or, more **** my DM says.

[Talakeal]

Ah, but could he take levels in something like Commoner, then just get an instrument and start singing? He can act like he's inspiring courage even if there's no benefit.

You know, I actually asked if I could play an expert at one point, and was told that Expert and Adept were OP on player characters and only available to NPCs. I can't imagine commoner going over better.

Okay, I know I've been off this forum for a while, and thus don't really know the full story besides what's on this thread. But you need to leave your Saturday game as well. It sounds like this guy wasn't reprimanded for his actions that are CLEARLY out of line (if I were the DM I'd have kicked him on the spot, even if he had a gun to my head). People have been asking what your Saturday DM is like, and I think we just got our answer.

That's a bit harsh for one nasty comment. Even the best of us say things that are rude and out of line occasionally, I am just afraid that it is the beginning of a pattern...

Las Crucres? Carlsbad? Deming? Silver City?

How far from El Paso, TX?

28-30 August is Bubonicon in Albuquerque ( http://bubonicon.com/ ) SF Convention with some gaming.

Las Cruces Game Knights hosts a convention (http://lcgameknights.webs.com/apps/c...ntID=236704858) usally in august

Amtgard (Boffer LARP) has a kingdom based in Las Cruces (http://www.larping.org/larps/listing...f-dragonspine/)

There are a couple of gamer meetups in El paso ( http://www.meetup.com/SWAGamers/ , http://www.meetup.com/SCORPion/ )

There is a gaming meertup in Lubbock, TX ( http://www.meetup.com/TheNCG-Lubbock-Chapter/ ) and Odessa, TX (http://www.meetup.com/omlfg1/)

The gaming meetup in Albuquerque has some good references ( http://www.meetup.com/abqrpg/ )

That's hitting a bit close to home. I am pretty sure the DM in question is actually a member of several of those organizations...

Did the DM of the Saturday game have reason to be upset with you, at least in his own mind, when the bad DM made this not-so-veilled suggestion to punish you? This is important to ascertain in order to determine how the bad DM's behavior might seem to those in the Saturday game.

If it's not too much to ask, a brief description of the story leading up to and surrounding the bad DM's not-so-veilled suggestion would be useful.

Its a really weird situation and probably worthy of its own thread.

Basically, our party is on a "spirit quest" of sorts travelling in a world of our dreams. My character is very determined and pragmatic and doesn't see the point in interacting with figments of our imagination and wasting time, especially when we have a very important quest to attend to in the real world.

As a player I am interested in and entertained by the scenario, but my character is not, so I am RPing being bored and disinterested in everything that happens. Eventually I (IC) got fed up with it and decided to confront the dream BBEG directly to force a confrontation and end the scenario quickly and decisively one way or another.

The Game Master apparently read to much into it and asked if I was planning on leaving the party and bringing in a new character to relieve my boredom and I said no.

Then one of the other players said "Well, it looks to me like you are just asking for the DM to kill your character," (Keep in mind we are in a dream, and AFAIK either in or out of character we cannot die in the dream.

Then "Bad DM" said something to the effect of "Hell, if I was the DM I would have already killed his character several times to teach him a lesson."

[Malimar]

You know, I actually asked if I could play an expert at one point, and was told that Expert and Adept were OP on player characters and only available to NPCs. I can't imagine commoner going over better.

[Talakeal]

I think he said adepts are OP because they "get both wizard and cleric spells" and experts are OP because they get so many skills that if you allow that class people will just take it at first level, load up on skill points, and then multi class out of it.

[Sayt]

I think he said adepts are OP because they "get both wizard and cleric spells" and experts are OP because they get so many skills that if you allow that class people will just take it at first level, load up on skill points, and then multi class out of it.

You mean like people could do with rogue, but don't, really?

Or does he ban rogue as well?

[Talakeal]

You mean like people could do with rogue, but don't, really?

Or does he ban rogue as well?

I don't know. He has some weird niche protection thing about rogues being "THE skill monkey." Hence why he bans bards and gives them free skill focus but bans it for other characters.

[The Glyphstone]

Y


That's hitting a bit close to home. I am pretty sure the DM in question is actually a member of several of those organizations...

"

What does that have to do with anything? Do you dislike him so much that you can't participate in any group where he might also show up?

[Talakeal]

What does that have to do with anything? Do you dislike him so much that you can't participate in any group where he might also show up?

No; but if he makes trouble in my Saturday group to the point where I need to find a new game I can't imagine he won't do so elsewhere.

[Balmas]

No; but if he makes trouble in my Saturday group to the point where I need to find a new game I can't imagine he won't do so elsewhere.

It's been said before, but I think we need to emphasize something. You are putting up with his BS right now, because you don't want to deal with what he might do in the future.

There are groups that don't have a tyrannical manchild running them. If he follows you, I advise you seek the help of your DM.

[Keltest]

It's been said before, but I think we need to emphasize something. You are putting up with his BS right now, because you don't want to deal with what he might do in the future.

There are groups that don't have a tyrannical manchild running them. If he follows you, I advise you seek the help of your DM.

Exactly this. Odds are, there are significantly more DM's who wont put up with him trying to cause problems than ones who will inexplicably approve of his behavior. If he causes problems in another game, talk to the DM and get him booted for poor conduct.

[Rubik]

There are groups that don't have a tyrannical manchild running them.

Fixed that for you. Nothing in his behavior even hints at the word "adult," and even insinuating that he is one is an affront to adults everywhere, men and women alike.

[TheIronGolem]

No; but if he makes trouble in my Saturday group to the point where I need to find a new game I can't imagine he won't do so elsewhere.

You're using the specter of what he might possibly do in the future as an excuse to passively accept what he is doing, right now. Because you'd rather do that than stand up for yourself, even in a situation where the stakes seriously could not be any lower.

Forget about D&D for a moment; does this really seem like a rational way to handle anything?

[AvatarVecna]

You're using the specter of what he might possibly do in the future as an excuse to passively accept what he is doing, right now. Because you'd rather do that than stand up for yourself, even in a situation where the stakes seriously could not be any lower.

Forget about D&D for a moment; does this really seem like a rational way to handle anything?

It is at times, when you know for a fact that the result of defiance will occur, and will be worse than what you're currently going through. I'm not sure either of those qualifiers applies to this situation though. Of course, I'm not the one in the situation, so I couldn't say for sure.

@OP

Do you know for an absolute fact that this guy will attempt to make your social life hell if you leave his game? Do you know for a fact that he is guaranteed to succeed in doing so, should he attempt to do so? If not, then there is a less than 100% chance of your situation not getting better if you leave, and a 100% chance of your situation not getting better if you stay. Even if it's only a 99.999% chance that it won't get better if you leave his game, that's still the better option.

[bean illus]

Ah, but could he take levels in something like Commoner, then just get an instrument and start singing? He can act like he's inspiring courage even if there's no benefit.

lol. he could get a mundane pet, too. He would not be multi classed as a bard/ranger.

[Rubik]

lol. he could get a mundane pet, too. He would not be multi classed as a bard/ranger.

There's the grig's master fiddle in Savage Species that gives you all the bardic abilities of a level 9 bard.

And just because this thread needs more entertainment:

[marphod]

No; but if he makes trouble in my Saturday group to the point where I need to find a new game I can't imagine he won't do so elsewhere.

I...

Ah....

Uhhhh.....

Buuut...

Whaaaat...

Suuuuuurely...

For the love of...

Sweet heebeeejeeebeees batman.

I get it. I'm empathetic. I've been in the situation where a bully has made my life more painful than it needed to be, and ended up cutting me off from things I enjoyed doing and people I had fun with. The solution isn't to hide and pretend things are going to get better on their own. You need to reach out to find other social connections. Maybe he is involved in some of those groups, and maybe he even has some authority in one or two. There are still plenty of others. Give them a shot. If he's not there, you win. If he is there, see what it is like. The others there might tolerate him less than you do.

[CrazyYanmega]

No; but if he makes trouble in my Saturday group to the point where I need to find a new game I can't imagine he won't do so elsewhere.

Dude, if he harasses you like that, I'm pretty sure that's legal grounds for a restraining order. I'd need someone who's actually from the particular state to see if that is feasible.

(Off Topic) Didn't think you'd know about Touhou, Rubik.

[Rubik]

(Off Topic) Didn't think you'd know about Touhou, Rubik.

I've watched Let's Plays of bullet hell games, though I'm not about to play one.

[Andezzar]

I get it. I'm empathetic. I've been in the situation where a bully has made my life more painful than it needed to be, and ended up cutting me off from things I enjoyed doing and people I had fun with. The solution isn't to hide and pretend things are going to get better on their own. You need to reach out to find other social connections. Maybe he is involved in some of those groups, and maybe he even has some authority in one or two. There are still plenty of others. Give them a shot. If he's not there, you win. If he is there, see what it is like. The others there might tolerate him less than you do.

Heed his advice. That guy can't be everywhere. If he follows you, he won't have seniority in that new group, and there actually are some reasonable people playing D&D. He'll get booted pretty quickly. Do you know if he is interested in games that are not D&D? If not, he'll be a lot less inclined to follow you.

As for the situation in the Saturday game, have you ever mentioned OOC that you are not bored, but that you are playing a character that is bored with the dream quest? The other players might not be accustomed to people that do not necessarily project all their feelings, opinions into their characters.

[fishyfishyfishy]

What exactly do you want from this forum? You keep making these threads seeking help and yet you continuously ignore every bit of practical advice you are given. Do you want validation that it's ok to continue suffering through this nonsense? If that's the case you will not find that here. You had my sympathy the first few times you started a discussion about this, but now it's getting tiring. Do something, anything, or just stop complaining about it. You've been handed dozens of valid alternatives and now you need to act. Lamenting over your situation with strangers on the internet will get you no where.

[Anlashok]

What exactly do you want from this forum?

Obviously he's looking to share ridiculous stories and maybe get some sympathy or empathy.

There's also the chance that the DM in question doesn't actually exist at all and the OP is just making up silly stories for his and our amusement. That would rather succinctly explain both why he refuses to fix the problem and the utter absurdity of some of the houserules in question.

[TiaC]

Obviously he's looking to share ridiculous stories and maybe get some sympathy or empathy.

There's also the chance that the DM in question doesn't actually exist at all and the OP is just making up silly stories for his and our amusement. That would rather succinctly explain both why he refuses to fix the problem and the utter absurdity of some of the houserules in question.

He was dead all along!

[EldritchWeaver]

That's hitting a bit close to home. I am pretty sure the DM in question is actually a member of several of those organizations...

It's unlikely that all members would condone this kind of behavior. Hell, the group I'm playing in has four DMs and those are clearly different persons which are not likely to react the very same way. I can't imagine you having such a bad luck that people won't be willing to help once you raise the issue.

What exactly do you want from this forum? You keep making these threads seeking help and yet you continuously ignore every bit of practical advice you are given. Do you want validation that it's ok to continue suffering through this nonsense? If that's the case you will not find that here. You had my sympathy the first few times you started a discussion about this, but now it's getting tiring. Do something, anything, or just stop complaining about it. You've been handed dozens of valid alternatives and now you need to act. Lamenting over your situation with strangers on the internet will get you no where.

I agree. If you are willing to stay in the bad DM's game because what he might do otherwise given the chance, you are leaving only one possibility - move away! Or take some therapy to stop being a doormat.

[Socratov]

you know, the longer I'm reading this, the more it starts to resemble a car crash: horrible to look at, but for some eldritch reason you can't look away...

[Auron3991]

If you absolutely won't walk away from this game, I have three words to give this (insert Maxwell's statements to Integra replacing the word Protestant with whatever works) a piece of your mind:

Chicken. Infested. Commoner.

Mix in some informing him that if the weakest class in the game with a feat designed to be a penalty is too powerful, there is literally no character in existence that will work in his game (if he's going to use insane troll logic, then he better be prepared for it in return). Add a dash of doing it in front of the whole table and you might just have a great dish of sweet revenge crafted.


or you could always try sneaking a D2 crusader build past him. Watch the game implode itself after he starts throwing books the first time you deal infinite damage with the added benefit of him not being able to convince others he was in the right:

Potential Player: "You threw books at people?"
Bad DM: "He broke my game!"
Potential Player: "You...threw books. At people."

And, if the above doesn't work, there's always amazing uses for household items. Many of them quite funny and disruptive to his game. This guy doesn't deserve cooperative players.

[Segev]

The thing about organized groups such as run at cons or the pathfinder society or the like is that it doesn't matter if the Bad DM is a member of those groups. He can't kick you out or ostricize you; those groups have specified rules of behavior that, if you stay within them, they cannot refuse you.

I'm not normally one for suggesting using the letter of their rules to force yourself on anybody, but I offer it here as a confidence-builder to reasssure you that he can't ruin these things for you. His behaviors that you fear will be used to slander and villify you are on the list of explicitly banned behaviors; he would get himself kicked out before you were. And then you can try to mend any damaged bridges.



Again, leave the bad DM's game, and do so as politely as you can. Act like you assume that's the end of it. In the Saturday game, you should make sure you let your DM know that you are actually enjoying the scenario; your character just isn't. You are enjoying playing a character who is not happy with the situation. If need be, talk to the other players, too. Explain your IC assumptions - that it can't kill your PC, so he isn't afraid of death and doesn't think he'll be separated from the party, and that this will get them back on the real-world quest he thinks is more important - and emphasize that you're not at all upset by the way this is going, OOC.

Be willing to be sensitive if your PC's actions or attitude are causing problems for the other players' enjoyment (not their characters', theirs). You can tone down his grumbling or decide he's resigned to seeing this through so throws himself at getting it done as efficiently as possible.

If it seems trouble is being stirred up, explain that you worry that the bad DM is taking his frustrations from the bad DM's game out on you. Bring up the possibility of you dropping out of that game to smooth things over, as if you're making a concession to show that you're reasonable. Maybe even mention that the only reason you haven't yet is because you're worried it would offend the bad DM, and you don't want to create strain at this Saturday game, and you're enjoying it far too much to want to risk damaging it or your place in it.

Overall, be honest and polite and open about the difference between your PC and your attitudes. Use this to bring up your concerns over the bad DM's game and your place in it and how it might impact your place in the good game. Again, be honest about your desire to stay in the Saturday game, and (reading the reactions of the others) be open about your willingness to drop out of the bad game and your concerns about doing so. If they're sympathetic, culminate with the point that you're not having fun in that one, and let them talk you into dropping out of it to ease tensions.

That way, when you do so, if the bad DM tries to stir trouble over it, they're already on your side in the Saturday game.

[Earthwalker]

As always thanks OP for sharing the insanity you find in the world. I have to say I do enjoy alot of the things your GM says to you.

Onethly, I will mirror the group think and say getting out of this game would be double plus good. Just politely take your leave, no fuss no muss.

Twothly I have to say as a GM I am unsure if I would tell the difference between a bored player and an interested player who was playing his character as bored. I think playing bored as the character would just make me think this story line wasn't working. If you haven't already I would maybe explain your situation to good DM, and the group.

[Segev]

I have to say as a GM I am unsure if I would tell the difference between a bored player and an interested player who was playing his character as bored. I think playing bored as the character would just make me think this story line wasn't working. If you haven't already I would maybe explain your situation to good DM, and the group.

I just want to re-emphasize this. Make sure your DM and the other players know that you're enjoying it.

This is an in-person game, so it shouldn't be too hard to show your OOC excitement when you're not puppetting your character. Just make it clear when you slip into character. Showily drop your excited demeanor after saying, "Alright, so my character says..." or something along those lines. Then play your bored character. Drop ostentatiously back OOC to show your own excitement as things develop when not making your character say things.

And, again, just openly tell them that you're liking it, and are just playing a character who doesn't. You enjoy your character's dissatisfaction, here. It is not you being dissatisfied. "Sometimes people do enjoy watching Grumpy be Grumpy."

[MatrixStone93]

I'm in agreement for everyone above- You should probably just walk away. That- Or take the mantle of DM yourself, and provide advice for everyone.

If you feel like being dumb, play something incredibly stupid- A Lute-Wielding pixie bard who is both buffer and utility, who dances around singing fairy songs with a magic wand she uses to tap people and apply buffs to make everyone into living gods. Preferably, she should be wearing bright, florescent pink fairy outfit, and should generally seem as innocent as physically possible.

Please stat this for a game with starting level ten. That sounds like the greatest possible thing.

[Jormengand]

And just because this thread needs more entertainment:

No, you can't have ranks in perform (Phone).

[Andezzar]

I'm guess in D20 Modern you could.