The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium

[Jasdoif]

Eesh, some of the posts about that last one were really hard to gauge; if that happens again I may need to specifically ask about ambiguous-looking posts and whether they're for or against inclusion. But for this time....Looks like it ended up with enough support to get above voting range, so it goes in.

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Proposed Items for Index 4.11
Redcloak Getting Footwear In the new art style, doing three toes with the skin tone "looked weak and unthreatening....So starting now, armored goblin-types get nice heavy boots instead. "	#1013	11/24/2015	No vote required, will be included.
On the Title "Blood Runs in the Family" It's a composite of two synonymous expressions, "'[Trait] runs in the family' and '[trait] runs in the blood'".	#991	06/27/2015	No vote required, will be included.
About Roy Fighting HPoH ( ) at the Godsmoot It's the beginning of the arc, not the climax of it.	#1016	12/19/2015	No vote required, will be included.

With nothing eligible to be voted on, there will be no vote; all three entries are now in the Index.

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I am really pretty amazed that people cannot understand this pacing issue.

Perhaps some people have difficulty pacing themselves?


EDIT: ...I broke the page boundary again?!

[Peelee]

EDIT: ...I broke the page boundary again?!

I'm going to have to add that as an at-will SLA in my Summon Banana I entry.

[Ruck]

I think "had to" is a stretch. People have been complaining about "the pace" and "Durkon stuff" since the book began, and every time numerous other posters have responded essentially as the Giant has.

Reading some of the older threads (as I did for a few particular strips after I read the comic for the first time), this complaint has been made about other storylines and books as well.

It's crazy to me that it still happens. I just don't get why people even read OOTS if they don't think the Giant has earned their trust as a storyteller by this point.

[Mad Humanist]

Let's have at most one entry about the pacing of the comic and the update schedule etc.

[Jasdoif]

I'm going to have to add that as an at-will SLA in my Summon Banana I entry.

I dunno..."at-will" suggests I can control when it happens.

[unbeliever536]

I dunno..."at-will" suggests I can control when it happens.

Some kind of aura effect then?

[Jasdoif]

Some kind of aura effect then?

I think it's more like a special quality where a natural 1 on my Postcraft rolls causes an involuntary page break regardless of the success of the check, which has the side of effect of preventing me from taking 10 or taking 20 on Postcraft checks.

[Gwynfrid]

Regarding "about Roy fighting HPoH" I'm a bit surprised you put it under " Writing process". Given what we agreed to focus on with that quote, I'd think the more likely home is under "Story, plot, and characters."

[Jasdoif]

Regarding "about Roy fighting HPoH" I'm a bit surprised you put it under " Writing process". Given what we agreed to focus on with that quote, I'd think the more likely home is under "Story, plot, and characters."

Well, the quote hinges on what part of the story we're at and what that entails; its core is the writing. Between that and how it didn't seem to fit in any of the subcategories of Story, Plot, and Characters; Writing Process seemed the best home for it.

If you (or anyone else) have a suggestion for where else it should go and why it's a better fit there, I'd be happy to consider moving it.

[Gwynfrid]

Well, the quote hinges on what part of the story we're at and what that entails; its core is the writing. Between that and how it didn't seem to fit in any of the subcategories of Story, Plot, and Characters; Writing Process seemed the best home for it.

If you (or anyone else) have a suggestion for where else it should go and why it's a better fit there, I'd be happy to consider moving it.

I don't think it's about the writing; or, more to the point, the part about writing is what we agreed is redundant with another quote. The part that matters is just information about the plot itself ie. Roy fighting HPoH at the Godsmoot is the beginning of an arc with HPoH as the main antagonist. When you look at the summaries, this quote looks out of place with the others under Writing Process.

So, for lack of a better place, I'd put it in the General Information subsection of Story, Plot, and Characters. It's akin to the quotes about there being seven books, the prequels, Dragon continuity etc.

In other news: The update of the Shop page now makes the eBooks quote redundant, as well as obsolete, since the Shop page has more up to date information. I suggest we take it out.

[Jasdoif]

I don't think it's about the writing; or, more to the point, the part about writing is what we agreed is redundant with another quote. The part that matters is just information about the plot itself ie. Roy fighting HPoH at the Godsmoot is the beginning of an arc with HPoH as the main antagonist. When you look at the summaries, this quote looks out of place with the others under Writing Process.

So, for lack of a better place, I'd put it in the General Information subsection of Story, Plot, and Characters. It's akin to the quotes about there being seven books, the prequels, Dragon continuity etc.

I'm not sure...what's everyone else think?

In other news: The update of the Shop page now makes the eBooks quote redundant, as well as obsolete, since the Shop page has more up to date information. I suggest we take it out.

I don't know about redundant per se, but with the eBooks on the Shop page now it looks like the quote violates B3 (since the Shop page is pretty clearly "GiTP general information"). I think it'd be kind of useful to temporarily leave an informative note at the top of Supporting the Strip linking to the shop page though, and conveniently there's already structure in place for that (see the "for character stats and items, see the D&D rules section" note at the top of Story, Ploy and Characters).

Anyone have a case that I'm interpreting B3 wrong or an objection to having a note about the availability of PDFs?

[Peelee]

I'm not sure...what's everyone else think?

I'm good with Gwynfrid's suggestion.

Anyone have a case that I'm interpreting B3 wrong or an objection to having a note about the availability of PDFs?

Sounds good.

[unbeliever536]

I'm not sure...what's everyone else think?

Well, it was under this analysis that I was opposed to its inclusion...

[Pyrous]

I'm not sure...what's everyone else think?

There are 4 things being adressed in the quote:

1. The purpose of the scene;
2. 'This "Durkon stuff" is the main plot', 'The plot of OOTS is saving the world';
3. Reader criticism about content;
4. Response to perceived veiled criticism about update schedule: "I don't change the content of the comic based on how quickly I'm able to produce it.".

#1 Should be in Writing - Story Development.

#2 Should be in Story, Plot, and Characters - General Information.

#3 Should be a see also on the similar quote (under Writing - Forum and Reader Reactions).

#4 Should be in Writing - Writing Process.

[Kish]

I'm not sure...what's everyone else think?

I think the important part's about writing. Actually, I'm not seeing the argument that any of it is not about writing: "the plot of the comic is OotS saving the world, including right now from Hel" is in response to a charge that Rich's writing is unfocused because it lacks the laser-focus on Xykon and the Gates some people think it should have.

[Gwynfrid]

I think the part that's about writing isn't about the writing process. The distinction matters, since otherwise, pretty much every quote is going to fall into the writing category. Besides, the part that's not about the plot is the part that's redundant. Now, I don't want to nitpick this to death. If the quote stays where it currently is, it's not great, but not a big deal either.

About the PDFs: A note pointing to the Shop page is appropriate, yes.

[Jasdoif]

If the quote stays where it currently is, it's not great, but not a big deal either.

I'm not seeing a clear consensus for moving it at this point, so I'm leaving it where it is for the time being.

About the PDFs: A note pointing to the Shop page is appropriate, yes.

This I do see a clear preference for doing...so, done.

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The following entry has been removed as it now violates Rule B3:

Supporting the Strip
eBooks PDFs of Dungeon Crawlin' Fools and On the Origin of PCs are now available. It's not yet certain when/if other books will receive the same treatment.	#999	08/27/2015

An interim note that "Digital PDFs of certain comic books are now available, see the shop page for more details" is now in the Supporting the Strip category.

[Jasdoif]

Hmm. Does anyone think else think that the Gygax Magazine OotS strips will be in a collection someday, and/or that the Giant retains ownership of all OotS strips (#1020), warrants inclusion? We do already have an entry saying the Kickstarter PDFs will be in print form, and this is kind of similar.

[Porthos]

Hmm. Does anyone think else think that the Gygax Magazine OotS strips will be in a collection someday, and/or that the Giant retains ownership of all OotS strips (#1020), warrants inclusion? We do already have an entry saying the Kickstarter PDFs will be in print form, and this is kind of similar.

That Rich retains ownership of his comics isn't news, as he's said it before elsewhere (though I don't know if it is in the Index anywhere). That the 6+ strips will be published in some form, somewhere, warrents inclusion I think. Sure it seems obvious. But that's rarely stopped us before. And an argument could have been made that Rich might not have bothered with only 6 strips. So yeah, I think on that point it fits.

[unbeliever536]

"All strips will definitely be collected eventually" is absolutely something we want to have in the index. This quote doesn't say that, so it doesn't supercede the old quote, but it nevertheless adds information on the topic and so should be included, possibly as a see also on the other one.

[Pyrous]

"All strips will definitely be collected eventually" is absolutely something we want to have in the index. This quote doesn't say that, so it doesn't supercede the old quote, but it nevertheless adds information on the topic and so should be included, possibly as a see also on the other one.

I completely agree with this.

[Peelee]

It's a twitter comment, but I checked with the rules, and it seems as if it falls under A1's purview of being allowed (though some people would argue that it tastes fine by itself).

[Blackwing's explosion] is a scroll activation mishap.

[Ron Miel]

I don't think there's any need to include it. As far as I understand, it's just standard game mechanics. If anyone questions it, someone can just point them to the rule. It would just be unnecessary clutter.

[137beth]

Hmm. Does anyone think else think that the Gygax Magazine OotS strips will be in a collection someday, and/or that the Giant retains ownership of all OotS strips (#1020), warrants inclusion? We do already have an entry saying the Kickstarter PDFs will be in print form, and this is kind of similar.

I think this one should be included, for reasons already stated. I don't think the twitter comment Peelee just posted adds anything, though.

[Gwynfrid]

I agree about including the Gygax magazine comment. The comment about Blackwing's genius use of the scroll mishap explains something useful to anyone not playing D&D, so it is helpful. Of course, it's possible to answer by linking to the game rules. Still, I would err on the side of inclusion.

[The Linker]

The comment about Blackwing's genius use of the scroll mishap explains something useful to anyone not playing D&D

Ehh, I mean, it doesn't really explain it. Linking this to a person and telling them to look in the 'Activate Blindly' section would answer any questions they might have.

Whereas if you only linked Rich's tweet to me, and I didn't play D&D, I would probably go "Wait, is that a thing that can actually happen in this game?" and you'd have to link me the SRD anyway.

[Murk]

Well, the fact that it can happen does not mean that it happened.
You can link to something saying "This scroll can explode", and people could still think "OK, but that is not what happened" - while the tweet doesn't explain it, it does give a conclusive answer that it actually happened.

Still, I think it's inconsequential enough to never be brought up again, and therefore does not really belong in the index

[Gwynfrid]

Well, the fact that it can happen does not mean that it happened.
You can link to something saying "This scroll can explode", and people could still think "OK, but that is not what happened" - while the tweet doesn't explain it, it does give a conclusive answer that it actually happened.

Still, I think it's inconsequential enough to never be brought up again, and therefore does not really belong in the index

This is the GitP forum... No subject, however microscopic, is so inconsequential that it never comes up again.

[Throknor]

Ehh, I mean, it doesn't really explain it. Linking this to a person and telling them to look in the 'Activate Blindly' section would answer any questions they might have.

Whereas if you only linked Rich's tweet to me, and I didn't play D&D, I would probably go "Wait, is that a thing that can actually happen in this game?" and you'd have to link me the SRD anyway.

What if some replied with the translated scroll: "STRIP #970 P5 ESTABLISHES THAT MAGIC ITEMS EXPLODE WHEN ACTIVATED IMPROPERLY." (Credit to Dr. Gamera) Perhaps include that as a Giant quote instead of the tweet?

[Jasdoif]

What if some replied with the translated scroll: "STRIP #970 P5 ESTABLISHES THAT MAGIC ITEMS EXPLODE WHEN ACTIVATED IMPROPERLY." (Credit to Dr. Gamera) Perhaps include that as a Giant quote instead of the tweet?

We could include the translation cleartext as a supporting link, I suppose; but it isn't a quote from the Giant so it can't form an entry by itself. (A2 excludes second-hand sources, which is what anyone else saying the Giant said would be).