OOTS #1022 - The Discussion Thread

[One Skunk Todd]

Because it has to be said: "Oh SNAP!"

[Nimrod's Son]

Alternatively, the phonetic transcription is right by default and "fear-en-gil-sniks" is a fair English-based approximation.

How can a multi-syllabic phonetic translation ever be "right by default" if it has no primary stress?

[One Skunk Todd]

This feels badly written. Good job throwing a weapon in the face of someone right after you talk rules-lawyering and avoiding repercussions for attacking, now the next chapter can declare that you broke the rules and need to be killed. Oh wait, that's not going to happen because the giant didn't think things through and doesn't want his ****-up to derail everything. So I guess it arbitrarily doesn't count.

Is it an attack if it does 0hp of damage?

[Omnicras]

Roy is getting very good at the game the high prists play

[enh]

"I got a cool little nightlight with my name on it."

That's a cute way for him to remember Roy's Archon with his fuzzy memories. I wonder if this means he doesn't remember the task he asked Roy's Archon to do for him before he left.

The fact that Roy remembers anything that specific feels wrong.

When he first returned, it was all "big warm fuzzy experience" with no details, plus "an idea for a cool sword move". Now he remembers the Mom-balaya and how the Archon appeared and was identified.

I'm totally okay if some other (future?) strip has Roy talking about how he's remembering more and more details, or that the memories are clearer on holy ground, etc, etc -- some in-universe explanation, whatever it is. But if this is just cheating on part of the author... *ptptptptptptpt*

Still an awesome strip!

[Carl]

Hold on, throwing a thing at someone's face can definitely be construed as an attack. Why would Roy assume that a weak throw with non-lethal intent is any less of a cause for his own destruction than using a throwing weapon?

Probably been ninja'd but does D&D 3.5 even have rules for throwing stuff to people in a potentially non-damaging way, i don't remember hearing/reading of any? It's perfectly possible Roy can claim to actually be returning them while doing something that's damaging.

When he first returned, it was all "big warm fuzzy experience" with no details, plus "an idea for a cool sword move". Now he remembers the Mom-balaya and how the Archon appeared and was identified.

I'm totally okay if some other (future?) strip has Roy talking about how he's remembering more and more details, or that the memories are clearer on holy ground, etc, etc -- some in-universe explanation, whatever it is. But if this is just cheating on part of the author...

Like the oracle he's read the book.

[Blisstake]

Hm, so one of the priests mentioned that killing the priest of Hel could result in "[Being killed] in ways even we couldn't fix."

Seems very likely that Belkar ends up killing the priest, gets killed by almost everyone in the Godsmoot, and can't get revived afterward. But I guess we'll have to see.

[Peelee]

Who said anything about Roy attacking? The bodyguard protection is to keep him from being attacked by priests who aren't happy with his actions. And as mentioned, priests are allowed two bodyguards.

Or he could go without protection and defend himself if necessary. Or some of the priests could heal him til he got out of dodge. Or some of the priests could stand in the way of any attack on him.

If he was made a bodyguard again, he'd have a formal role, and thus be sequestered. Pretty sure that's the opposite of what he wants.

[Porthos]

*reads the first three pages of reactons*



I'm having a sudden flashback to all of the arguing over whether or not Belkar "attacked" Miko in this strip, thus triggering his Mark of Justice.

Just...

I can't bear to see if it kept going after the third page.

==========

Fantastic and hilarious strip, BTW. I think part of my frustration is seeing a fantastic comic and getting.... Well, not the reaction I expected by some in the reaction thread.

[DaggerPen]

To: New High Priest of Hel
From: Roy
Re:kt

I laughed entirely too hard.

Why was that staff considered the property of the Church of Hel?

It was Malack's. He was a priest of Jergal. Durkon only got it because Malack died. I don't recall any sort of transfer of registered ownership.

"Our church has a strict 'finders keepers' policy with regards to our property - you find it, we keep it. Prove otherwise."

[Darth Paul]

Petty revenge is the best kind of revenge.

[dtilque]

Now get out of there before the Yes voters realize that your newly missing official status means you can be legally attacked, Roy.

If the Yes-voters were paying attention to the fight with Durkula, they'd know Roy can lay down some serious smack, even against spell casters. They probably don't know that it's an undead-bane enhanced effect, so they won't want to risk a fight with him.

So, the vampires out front are still protected by the last casting of that spell with the staff for how long?

Protection from Daylight is not a standard D&D spell; it's homebrew. So we don't know how long it lasts. However, a reasonable guess is that it lasts 1 hour/level. If so, it depends how it was cast. If from the staff, then most likely the level applied would be Malack's, which was level 12. If Durkula learned the spell (which I'm fairly sure he has), it could be with his caster level, which is 14 or 15. In either case, it will last until long after sunset.

BTW, there's only one vampire out front, or at least we've only seen one.

[Ruck]

Why was that staff considered the property of the Church of Hel?

It was Malack's. He was a priest of Jergal. Durkon only got it because Malack died. I don't recall any sort of transfer of registered ownership.

Not-Durkon showed up to the Moot with the staff, and there's an old saying about possession being nine-tenths of the law that I think applies here. (Or at least, since not-Durkon walked in with the staff, the Moot assumes it is his staff.)

The fact that Roy remembers anything that specific feels wrong.

When he first returned, it was all "big warm fuzzy experience" with no details, plus "an idea for a cool sword move". Now he remembers the Mom-balaya and how the Archon appeared and was identified.

I'm totally okay if some other (future?) strip has Roy talking about how he's remembering more and more details, or that the memories are clearer on holy ground, etc, etc -- some in-universe explanation, whatever it is. But if this is just cheating on part of the author... *ptptptptptptpt*

Still an awesome strip!

Explanation here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...postcount=1218

[Onyavar]

Indeed, it's actually pronounceable otherwise: Fear-en-gil-sniks.

Maybe we should call him that!

Actually, once you know how to say that, it's easy. Pay attention to not pronounce the non-vocalized e and i in "-en-gil-"
For all of us who know the phonetic alphabet: [fyːrŋlˌsnɪks]

Can I just point out that your phonetic transcription is way off? [y] is the German ü; the vowel in "fear" is [i:]. The suggested pronunciation "fear-en-gil-sniks" is four syllables, with a hard [g] after the [ŋ]. You're missing a syllable, and you have a secondary stress marker but no primary stress. In short, you want:

[ˈfiːrəŋɡəlˌsnɪks]

In fact, my phonetic transcription is exactly how I pronounce Phyrnglsnyx. I also admit to have little idea how the english "syllable transcription system" works, I just copied the transcription that emperordaniel provided.

So what? Call me a reformed Phyrnglsnyxer (Fürnglsnixer) , while emperordaniel is an orthodox Phyrnglsnyxer (Fearengilsnyxer).

[hroþila]

How can a multi-syllabic phonetic translation ever be "right by default" if it has no primary stress?

By being a broad transcription for a language that has a fixed stress, for example.

[Dracon1us]

ahaha great punchline!

[Max™]

In fact, my phonetic transcription is exactly how I pronounce Phyrnglsnyx. I also admit to have little idea how the english "syllable transcription system" works, I just copied the transcription that emperordaniel provided.

So what? Call me a reformed Phyrnglsnyxer (Fürnglsnixer) , while emperordaniel is an orthodox Phyrnglsnyxer (Fearengilsnyxer).

Oh oh oh, I get to be a member of The Latter Day .gif-rhymes-with-the-peanut-butter-and-Phyrnglsnyx-has-the-same-soft-g Saints then!

[warmachine]

Roy may have made an impetuous mistake. The new High Priest of Hel can accuse Roy of vandalism and the Godsmoot isn't so polarised that a majority will disagree in the face of the obvious. The appropriate punishment for vandalism is unknown as not all the rules are known but it's unlikely property can be blatantly damaged without consequence. The consequence might come later but there's little point in deliberately inviting it, especially over a magic item that's probably drained and useless.

[Rift_Wolf]

In fact, my phonetic transcription is exactly how I pronounce Phyrnglsnyx. I also admit to have little idea how the english "syllable transcription system" works, I just copied the transcription that emperordaniel provided.

So what? Call me a reformed Phyrnglsnyxer (Fürnglsnixer) , while emperordaniel is an orthodox Phyrnglsnyxer (Fearengilsnyxer).

I love how an argument has broken out over the correct pronunciation of Phyrnglsnyx, given its origins.

Also love the comic! Loose plot elements snapped! Rules lawyered! At least three of my speculations crushed into a fine pink powder!

[Keltest]

As I see it, Roy deliberately did the most unpleasant thing he could without technically making an attack. He was hoping to provoke the Frontarch into attacking him so he could destroy her and claim self-defence. A little risky, given he doesn't know the legal definition of attack, and it didn't work, but apparently he thought it worth a try.

I think youre over thinking it. Roy just broke the staff out of spite then sassed her.

[Werbaer]

The fact that Roy remembers anything that specific feels wrong.

When he first returned, it was all "big warm fuzzy experience" with no details, plus "an idea for a cool sword move". Now he remembers the Mom-balaya and how the Archon appeared and was identified.

He remembers the things that happened on the cloud. He was there with his Archon (twice), and took the Mom-balaya down with him in the elevator.

[Rift_Wolf]

I think youre over thinking it. Roy just broke the staff out of spite then sassed her.

Wasn't just spite. If fPOH could research the spells contained (as Phyrnglsnyx had been doing) then she could've spread the vampire plague across the surface as well as the Dwarven underground.
Also from a story perspective, this is tying up a lot of loose threads. What spells are in the staff? How many charges are left? Is it even the right staff?
*snap* IT DOESN'T MATTER

[DaggerPen]

Roy may have made an impetuous mistake. The new High Priest of Hel can accuse Roy of vandalism and the Godsmoot isn't so polarised that a majority will disagree in the face of the obvious. The appropriate punishment for vandalism is unknown as not all the rules are known but it's unlikely property can be blatantly damaged without consequence. The consequence might come later but there's little point in deliberately inviting it, especially over a magic item that's probably drained and useless.

I imagine it's probably against the rules for anyone with official Godsmoot status.

Of course, since Roy just lost said status, the rules probably don't have the power to deliver any sort of sanction against him (I doubt anything short of attacking a high priest can really be punished by execution, and lesser offenses seem more likely to just involve kicking the offender out or imposing a sanction on the offender's church. After all, while harmony is key to the Godsmoot, the gods have to have agreed to these rules, and I have a hard time seeing most of the gods agreeing to "Yes, my high priest can be summarily executed over a minor offense"), making enforcement a bit tricky (anything but execution, expulsion or imprisonment seems a bit difficult to enforce on someone with no official status) unless one of the individual High Priests feels like taking advantage of his lack of protection for some smiting.

[Bulldog Psion]

Roy may have made an impetuous mistake. The new High Priest of Hel can accuse Roy of vandalism and the Godsmoot isn't so polarised that a majority will disagree in the face of the obvious. The appropriate punishment for vandalism is unknown as not all the rules are known but it's unlikely property can be blatantly damaged without consequence. The consequence might come later but there's little point in deliberately inviting it, especially over a magic item that's probably drained and useless.

At which point, Roy could probably claim that the staff belonged to Durkon/Lurky Corpsewhiskers, and not to Macey Shadows, in the same way he's Lurky's bodyguard and not Macey's bodyguard. Then he could escape during the 5 hours of confusion that would ensue while the priests debated whether or not the convoluted rules of the Godsmoot cover this.

Anyway, I like the comic. Plenty of interesting Roy snark.

[Sir_Leorik]

Great to see Roy stick it to the new HPoH.

[Rinazina]

This feels badly written. Good job throwing a weapon in the face of someone right after you talk rules-lawyering and avoiding repercussions for attacking, now the next chapter can declare that you broke the rules and need to be killed. Oh wait, that's not going to happen because the giant didn't think things through and doesn't want his ****-up to derail everything. So I guess it arbitrarily doesn't count.

I'm going to do a personal joke now, no offence intended ...

It is not they you had very bad Dungeon Master who want to use every misspelling as reason to frustrate/kill the player ? Because this is exactly the kind of alarm will raise such player/victim :) I had that kind of D.M, too... but after some years of paranoia-precisions now I'm OK.

That "attack" is clearly an harmless fun behaviour, without any needs to look on a comic inconsistency.

I wonder more, if the Hulk Mode, is providing Heal+Restoration or just Heal ... and how can works the triggering of such benefit now

[Jay R]

This feels badly written. Good job throwing a weapon in the face of someone right after you talk rules-lawyering and avoiding repercussions for attacking, now the next chapter can declare that you broke the rules and need to be killed. Oh wait, that's not going to happen because the giant didn't think things through and doesn't want his ****-up to derail everything. So I guess it arbitrarily doesn't count.

It's not arbitrary. This world works by D&D logic, not ours. For instance, Good and Evil are objectively defined, and objectively measured by the right Detect spell. But attacks are also objectively defined. Whatever you plan to do, it isn't an attack unless you roll a d20. You can always decide not to attack just by not rolling the die. Therefore, if Roy decides that it isn't an attack, it isn't.

Durkon's thrall (I forgot his name) had stated in #1016 that he had gotten the teleportation orb so that they could dominate they dwarven elders. Since he doesn't have the staff... well i don't know if dominate and vampirise are the same thing. I don't play D&D, so can someone please tell me if I'm right?

You've actually seen Dominate in the strip. Dominate is forcing somebody to do something against his or her will. It was used on Belkar to make him jump off the ship, without draining his blood to turn him into a vampire.

...hm, actually, hang on. Do they need to race to the gate to try to beat Xykon as originally intended? Or do they now have to race to the dwarves, to deal with Durkula, so that the vote still fails?

It doesn't matter which order they do it in. The Mechane has enough speed to get them to each place just barely in the nick of time.

I think Roy has Expressive Single Digit as an innate ability.

Don't we all?

Hah, I actually completely forgot about the staff.

...Unfortunately, its destruction isn't going to mean much in terms of slowing him and the other vampires down. Makes you wonder how many times he'll be able to cast Protection from Daylight per day, which presumably means not being able to expand his little squad much, but other than that, this probably won't be much more than a temporary hiccup. If that.

Remember that depriving Malack of the staff was a crucial part of the successful plan to kill him. Dispel Magic in the sunshine is now deadly to the Vampire In Durkon's Body (ViDB).

[8BitNinja]

Cue the Nosferatu reference in about 10 strips

[Jay R]

I predict that we will soon have a new candidate for most quoted line from the Order of the Stick. So let's get started.

Do the Godsmoot rules include a "she literally asked for it" clause? If so, he should have spoken the disclaimer then "delivered" the pieces of the staff directly to her heart.

Of course not. That wouldn't be "the single most frustrating way to rules-lawyer it."

So... couldn't Wrecan kill Veldrina, since her god also voted "yes"? It would take all of ten minutes to resurrect her afterwards...

Perhaps, but that's not "the single most frustrating way to rules-lawyer it." The writer isn't going to simplify the life of the Order of the Stick and take away Rich's plot.

Why was that staff considered the property of the Church of Hel?

It was Malack's. He was a priest of Jergal. Durkon only got it because Malack died. I don't recall any sort of transfer of registered ownership.

Because that was "the single most frustrating way to rules-lawyer it."

[SmaugTheYounger]

Goddamit, this all comes down to Malack. WHy did you have to vampirise Durkon???

Actually, one could argue it started with an "Oops."

Talk about butterfly effect...