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2017-02-21, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Location
- New Jersey
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Well, yeah, I would too. In fact, I just recently trained someone up, and then two months later she became my superior. I was just sympathizing with the idea of being frustrated at that. It's still wrong to act on it with mutiny though. But in my case, she was a good pick for team lead and I have no problems.
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2017-02-21, 03:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Location
- Skyron, Andromeda
- Gender
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2017-02-21, 03:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Andi needs to finish off Bandana. Her authority is eroding as long as she allows verbal dissent.
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2017-02-21, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
I can only guess Rich was nostalgic for the good ol' days of Miko threads and decided to write Andi to carry on her battles against sense.
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2017-02-21, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
My dad went to an Ivy League school and then taught at an all-but-Ivy League school before moving down here and teaching at a nowhere-near-Ivy League school. I think he was also a Navy chaplain at some point, but I'm unsure. That's about all you need to know about how his martial skills were, I'm sure.
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2017-02-21, 03:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
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2017-02-21, 03:54 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
There's something about the whole "oh, now look who's in favour of the captain listening" quip that makes me grit my teeth. Don't know what it is exactly, but for the love of all that's holy, that sets me on edge.
And for something that petty? Yeah, I was willing to give her a little benefit of the doubt of the whole "um, some of our crew just got bisected and we might all die" flight or fight stuff, but it's clear this isn't just a flare up. She didn't even give more than a "oh, you're awake" to the person she very easily could have KILLED with her tantrum before throwing her toys out of the pram again.
Take a long walk, Andi. Preferably off the short plank.
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2017-02-21, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
This, very much so. And this coming on the heels of another nesting doll of Hel's tiebreaker backup plans at the Godsmoot.
Clear to us third-party readers, sure. Clear to a raging narcissist with a superiority complex? That's something else.
For all her good points, my mother is just like this. No matter how much I (late 20s) and my sister (mid-30s) grow into being adults, it's pretty clear that she will never regard either of us as a fellow adult or as an equal in any way, because she's still got this mental block around the fact that we're not children anymore and she got accustomed to having a lot of control back when we were.
That is pretty much the only thing preventing Andi from conclusively going over the moral event horizon. Right now, I'm fine with Andi having a nice long stay in the brig, or being kicked off the crew. If she actually offs Bandana, or some other crew member who objects? She'll deserve a painful death.I prepared Explosive Runes before writing this signature.
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2017-02-21, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
I'd just like to point out, before the next bravely against-the-grain Andi defender posts, that she hasn't mentioned the people who died. She's had time for Bandana's age, and Bandana's age, and Bandana's age, and some stuff that appears to be pure ego assertion ("How dare you not listen to me, don't you know who I am? I'm ME!"). She has not spared one syllable for "people have died," either in the "people have died and this never-never happened when Julio was in charge" form her defenders insist on, or in any other "people have died and this is a thing I care about" form.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-02-21, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
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2017-02-21, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
- Location
- Calgary, AB
- Gender
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2017-02-21, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
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2017-02-21, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Why do you think it's gratuitous to have her be a petty jerk who sucks at leadership and who is using literally anything to justify her behavior? Her "when you don't know what to do, hit the stuff" has no more meaning than her going "you were never the captain, Bandana, everyone else was just too deluded to see it" attitude.
She wasn't obsessed with mathematics to be a decent babysitter, she was a babysitter who thought she could do her homework while on the clock and had instead to deal with a turbulent kid.
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2017-02-21, 04:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
I'm going to describe a scene that won't actually happen.
Roy finishes off the frost giants and turns around to look for Bandana.
Wait, what happened here?
Andi replies with something similar to what she's said over the past few strips. Roy closes his eyes briefly, a pained expression coming over his face as he sorts out what she's saying other than some kind of self-justification, then:
WHACK!
Andi goes flying over the edge of the ship and lands far below.
(That last line is what I'm confident won't actually happen; Roy can easily knock Andi unconscious without killing her, and may well do so before the end of this arc. If Andi dies, it will be either without the intervention of any of the Order, or, just barely possibly, Belkar showing that even when he's being relatively heroic he's a different kind of hero than the rest of the Order.)
So she does, after the "Bandana's age, and Bandana's age" part, as a secondary point to the wrong of "bossing me around," and before the "Bandana's age" part. My mistake.Last edited by Kish; 2017-02-21 at 04:14 PM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2017-02-21, 04:13 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
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2017-02-21, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Possibly. In that reaction though, I'd have to defer to anybody who knows what a career in warfare or naval gunnery is actually like.
Has there been a lot of media that has portrayed people in artillery- or weapons-related careers as being pathologically unable to manage other people, handle leadership positions or develop social skills at all?
But oh no, it's fun and easy to mock and put down the engineers, because we're insufferable nerds with no social skills, right?
I think what gets me more is the deliberate conflation of Andi's role on the ship (as valid as any other) with her arrogance and entitlement coming to a head in the mutiny (which is totally out of line and gratingly so). If her engineering background was just that, her role in past strips, and never really came up here aside from Bandana's "go do your job" line, I was fine with that. But now the author is deliberately using trite BS about "fixing problems by hitting them with a wrench" for Andi to taunt and gloat to Bandana or "gotta go do my trigonometry homework" in the source of Andi's resentment and entitlement. I think that's what really sticks in my craw about this strip.
I never said they did, merely that both Andi and Eugene looked down on Bandana and Roy respectively. Eugene despised Roy (like he despised his own father, Horace) for being a physical-prowess-oriented fighter, instead of spending years and years studying and practicing to develop magical skills and talent as Eugene did. Andi looks down on Bandana for being a kid handed a series of leadership opportunities, instead of studying and working up the hierarchy of the ship gradually as Andi did.
It's not a perfect parallel, but I see one.
It's one thing for Andi to be a jerk who feels entitled to leadership; that's not something tied to her role upon the ship but rather to Andi's seniority regardless of her actual title.
It's another thing entirely for the author to be pulling this "have I mentioned Andi is an engineer" routine lately, right down to Andi spouting trite crap about percussive maintenance and being a stereotypical nerd in her youth. It comes across less as "Andi just so happens to be an engineer" and more like some sort of preachy message that engineers habitually suck at leadership due to crappy social skills and people-management.Last edited by TheNecrocomicon; 2017-02-21 at 04:25 PM. Reason: Because people apparently can't reply to me with a single post
I prepared Explosive Runes before writing this signature.
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2017-02-21, 04:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2017-02-21, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2015
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah, I don't see the Order being responsible for her ultimate fate. I'm of the mind that she'll live. A more fitting fate would be for Julio to hear about this, for her to live with her shame, and to spend the rest of her life on latrine duty. Or whatever the equivalent is on a magic airship.
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2017-02-21, 04:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2016
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
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2017-02-21, 04:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2017-02-21, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
I could see them being the instrument for her fate, but yes, I find it unlikely.
I cast Summon Banana III: Jasdoif, can I please have the Giant's quote about every character meeting their downfall as a consequence of their actions, please? (Thanks in advance)
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Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2017-02-21, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Yep.
Nope.
Nope. Her way of thinking is irrational, her reasons for doing what she did are based on factually wrong issues, and she's only not destroyed the ship by luck. She still got it damaged.
Now, because of her, the Mechane is flying blind in uncharted territories, with the people who defended the ship and her crew abandoned behind and likely unable to reach them to keep protecting them. And they have literally no info on what's the path they're taking is like.
So, even if Andi's method happen to produce a desirable outcome, it'd be by pure randomness.
Also, note that the Mechane only arrives just on time if you makes an honest effort to go through the challenges baring its route. So Andi's actions are also making the ship's most needed feature not working anymore.
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2017-02-21, 04:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2006
- Location
- Meridianville AL
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
There's also this from long ago.
I'm sure I can find other examples if I look. Roy uses his brains and environmental factors when he can.
That said, what he studied at that fancy fighter college was "Standing in Front of Other People 101". Con and strength are required for his build to work, Int is a minor edge compared to them.
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2017-02-21, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2017
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
You know it's one thing for someone to be angry that someone "less qualified" (read: younger) was given a promotion over you. I can even understand slightly the feeling of unease that generates. However as nearly everyone ever has pointed out, that's nowhere near justification to not do your job let alone attack your superior. It's clear that despite explicit orders, Andi never really considered Bandana the captain which shows she not only has no respect for Bandana, she has none for Scoundrel. All of which have been discussed. I think the most sickening thing is how she treated someone she's pretty much helped raise from the age of 8. I've known people since they were kids. I can attest to the idea that it's sometimes difficult to see them as more than a kid. That typically makes me less prone to wanting to bash their head in with improvised blunt weapons. Even if it had been an "outburst", she clearly has no remorse for attacking someone she practically raised. What a genuinely awful person. At least Miko was a powerful case of lawful stupid and as much as she deserved her comeuppance, she wasn't a terrible person. I'm finding it genuinely difficult to find redeeming qualities within Andi. We're instead treated to a horror show of ever more terrible character traits and behaviors. It's almost enough to make you understand people like Xykon who want to destroy the world.
That my friends, is the true moral of this story. We're ALL just one Andi away from being Xykon.
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2017-02-21, 04:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
FeytouchedBanana eldritch disciple avatar by...me!
The Index of the Giant's Comments VI―Making Dogma from Zapped Bananas
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2017-02-21, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
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2017-02-21, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
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2017-02-21, 04:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2016
- Location
- Seoul
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Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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2017-02-21, 04:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
- Gender
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
So, before the usual Andi vs Bandana arguments continue in the new thread, can I just say that young Bandana-Beatrix is soooo lovably cute?
Ooops....too late, I guessBoytoy of the -Fan-Club
What? It's not my fault we don't get a good-aligned female paragon of promiscuity!
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I once fought against a dozen people defending a lady - until the mods took me down in the end.
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Sometimes, being bad feels so good.
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2017-02-21, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #1066 - The Discussion Thread
By any reasonable metric, I think Andi has done enough to be responsible for her death if it happened in this scene whether it came by dagger, oversized axe, disintegrate ray, greatsword, arrow, or the ground. Though, as I said, I do not actually expect anyone in the Order to kill her (alas; the speed with which she went from pretending she wasn't actually taking Bandana prisoner to snidely gloating has managed to make me start actively hoping she winds up dead).
Citation needed for the bolded parts.
At this point I'll be surprised if you acknowledge this at all, but the fact is, you're making up stuff as much as the people who wholeheartedly embrace championing Andi are. Neither indicates "grah, being a fighter/a captain is not working hard like me!" Ever. It's much more elemental: a fighter is not a wizard/Bandana is not Andi, thus a fighter is inferior to a wizard/thus Bandana is inferior to Andi.
You're also reading a ton of stuff that isn't there into a couple jokes that no one but you has indicated considering to be a comment on engineers.Last edited by Kish; 2017-02-21 at 04:39 PM.
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II