Overwatch: Boop!

[Togath]

Plus I suck at scoped aiming.
Also had my first encounter with a troll, a Mei who kept stopping our own team with their ice walls.

[Avilan the Grey]

Thing is I am great at scoped aiming in most games, but i think I get mentally so stressed out by this game (since I have other people depending on me (and vice versa)) that I botch all shots for some reason.

[The_Jackal]

Thing is I am great at scoped aiming in most games, but i think I get mentally so stressed out by this game (since I have other people depending on me (and vice versa)) that I botch all shots for some reason.

It's the charge up. It totally screws up my tempo.

[Avilan the Grey]

I am steadily climbing now. To a rate of 2 wins per loss, even. Still bronze though. Goal is to reach Silver this weekend. Goal in the long run (as in into season 5) reach Gold. I do not consider myself good enough to reach higher than that, realistically.

[Togath]

Something that might be neat to see; another burst firer, like Lucio.
Just sort of a random pondering after playing a bunch of Borderlands 2 recently. Kind of missing weapons that fire in bursts of shots~

[Avilan the Grey]

Just because I was so content this morning with my progress I ended up in three matches i a row that were losses or draws.
And yeah... they were kinda stereotypical. Not going to rage on the team, but let's say we didn't find any common ground.

And of course when I have a great match I can't join the teamup for the next game because I have laundry and have to leave. Because of course.

Edit: At Bronze level not too many Lucios. And even fewer that remembers that Speed Boost increases Payload movement with 5% (I think it's 5%. It is visible to the eye at least.). It's actually a significant bonus if you can sit on Speed Boost for a few seconds when on the Payload.

[Avilan the Grey]

One thing i noticed today... On the King of The Hill matches... disturbingly many immature ppl leave after one loss. So far three games today. All on the enemy side, but still damn irritating. It's so obvious... The second the "First Round Won (or lost)" screen pops up, one of the enemy team disappears.

[Velaryon]

Plus I suck at scoped aiming.
Also had my first encounter with a troll, a Mei who kept stopping our own team with their ice walls.

Those are the worst. At least when you get a Symmetra troll, you can just stop using their teleporter after the first time you walk through it and fall off a cliff immediately. I assume, anyway, since I've never actually encountered a Symmetra troll. She's just not as easy to screw with your teammates with as Mei.

Thing is I am great at scoped aiming in most games, but i think I get mentally so stressed out by this game (since I have other people depending on me (and vice versa)) that I botch all shots for some reason.

Not only is the charge time a problem, but there's so much else that a sniper has to contend with in Overwatch that doesn't come up in most shooters:
different modes and speeds of movement (flying D.Va vs. speed-boosted/wall ridiing Lucio vs. constantly jumping Genji),
wide variety of protective abilities (Reinhardt shields, deflecting Genjis, D.Va's defense matrix, etc.),

And on top of all that, Widowmaker leaves glaringly obvious bullet trails through the air when she shoots, so that absolutely everyone knows where she's firing from, negating the primary advantage of being a sniper in the first place.

It's been obvious since almost the very beginning that Widow has obvious weaknesses, but Blizzard has persistently refused to help her out. I don't blame them for being overcautious when it comes to balancing the sniper, since making it too easy to kill with her would completely kill the fun for everyone else, but they could easily cut the ridiculous cooltime of her grappling hook and venom mine in half without making her too strong.

[Avilan the Grey]

I am sorry if I come off Tilted, btw. I have a theory about Sundays though.
Just like last Sunday, after playing a full day, I have lost rank. Weekdays and late nights and early mornings I win more than i lose... Sunday afternoons... is basically a non stop losing streak.

My personal theory is that there is a bigger chance of finding a dedicated player at odd hours. Things that support that is that the number of quitters and trolls* are significantly lower as well at those hours.

*On one of my games this afternoon we had a guy on the team that outright said his goal is to get a 0 SR, and threw the game immediately.

[The_Jackal]

I am sorry if I come off Tilted, btw. I have a theory about Sundays though.
Just like last Sunday, after playing a full day, I have lost rank. Weekdays and late nights and early mornings I win more than i lose... Sunday afternoons... is basically a non stop losing streak.

My personal theory is that there is a bigger chance of finding a dedicated player at odd hours. Things that support that is that the number of quitters and trolls* are significantly lower as well at those hours.

*On one of my games this afternoon we had a guy on the team that outright said his goal is to get a 0 SR, and threw the game immediately.

And, once again, we see how competitive only creates negative outcomes. I don't blame you for being tilted, but I have to emphasize, your SR is just a number, and they've already made changes to make it feel more like 'progression' by placing everyone artificially lower, so as to present the illusion of progress. An ELO system isn't designed to produce 'progress', it's designed to match people up with players of their approximate skill level.

One of the reasons the SR system is so crummy is that it rewards getting medals, independent of the outcome of the game. Now you likely won't climb SR through medaling and losing alone, but if you can get medals consistently, and lose less SR when you lose, and gain the same amount or more when you win, you'll climb. For which your reward will be a bunch of losses because you're not actually particularly good, you just pick Heroes with which it's easy to medal with (Junkrat on damage, Soldier or Torb on Eliminations, Lucio on heals).

But even if the competitive rating system were perfectly reflective of everyone's skill level, competitive would still be bad.

[Avilan the Grey]

I know I know.

I still agree with those who say leavers should get temp banned immediately. Today has been full of them. There need to be actual consequences and that stops smurf accounts as well.

I say 1 leave = 1 hour ban. 2 leaves in 24 hours = 48 hour ban.
So you can't screw with others as easily.

[Togath]

Just watched an Orisa get a triple environmental kill in Volskaya Industry.
Really makes me want to learn her "Halt!" better.

[Silverraptor]

Just watched an Orisa get a triple environmental kill in Volskaya Industry.
Really makes me want to learn her "Halt!" better.

Where? Was Dva, Winston, and Mercy trying to do the wide gap back door over the ice?

[Landis963]

Where? Was Dva, Winston, and Mercy trying to do the wide gap back door over the ice?

Could also be that balcony to the right of the second point. (Attacking perspective, I mean)

[The_Jackal]

Just watched an Orisa get a triple environmental kill in Volskaya Industry.
Really makes me want to learn her "Halt!" better.

It's pretty simple. Fire it with right click, right-click a second time to trigger it. Anything connected via a beam to the orb will get yanked to the orb when it's triggered.

[Togath]

It was on defense. The enemy team was possibly a little too clustered together, and got pulled in to the water.

[The_Jackal]

Now that I've seen some more comp with Orisa, I actually think she's pretty good in low MMR matches. Her primary strength is applying pressure while shielding an area. Her ability to plunk a barrier in a selected position is pretty useful. While her barrier is only 900 health compared to Reinhardt's 2000, and it doesn't cover as wide an area, she can fire while it's up, and the static cooldown means she's effectively gaining 75 shield power per second, all the time. Reinhardt's barrier regenerates 225 per second (after a 2 second delay), but only while he's not using it. So, the upshot here is that if you can position your barriers well, and your team can keep flankers from wrecking your day too badly, her barrier can do as much work as Reinhardt's. Finally, her 144 DPS fusion driver is great at sanding down the Bastions and Torbjorns that festoon the lower ranks, as well as adding zoning pressure to enemy packs.

She's got problems as MMR increases, however. For one, higher MMR players are much more dangerous flankers. With better mechanical aim, and better understanding of positioning, they can present flanking dilemmas that Orisa can struggle to cope with. Also, as MMR increases, the huge size of her head hitbox presents more opportunities for enemies to make quick work of her. Higher MMR players are also better at making coordinated maneuver, which quickly result in her barriers being woefully out of position, and, to be frank, 900 health doesn't take very long for a good team to burn through. This is where Rein's bigger, more mobile barrier starts to shine: It will last twice as long, and if the enemy team is wiped with a tiny fraction of his barrier gone, he can let it refill to full while the opposing team respawns. Finally, her 'move or fire' dilemma is anathema to being alive for very long against skilled enemies. I found it very easy to solo burn enemy Orisas with Sombra, for example, by hosing her face down from short to medium range.

In other news, I've been putting more time in some of my less played heroes, and I've pushed through my placement matches, and done a bunch of quick play lately (I'm taking a break from my Fallout 4 survival run). Some of my observations: Sombra is a bit better than I've given her credit for. I still think she needs some love in the range department, in the form of some slightly lower spread and attenuation on her gun, but she's got a dinky hitbox, and a generous ammunition well in that SMG of hers. Her one defect is that she's a bit 'win or die' at the moment. Unlike Heroes like Reaper, Genji, or Tracer, her ability to disengage from an ambush that's gone against her is much more constrained. I've gotten a bit better about using her camouflage after turning a corner, and that can work pretty decently. One of the best things about Sombra is that she doesn't actually need to do an enormous amount of execution to severely disrupt an enemy defense. Sneaking past the first chokepoint on, say, Anubis or Volskaya is pretty trivial, and from there you can make an immense pest of yourself. Obviously, your team still needs your help, you can't just putter around hacking health packs and doing nothing else, but if your team can bring pressure while you're firing from behind, you can do damage way out of proportion to what your statline might suggest.

[Rising Phoenix]

In other news. Smurf accounts...Smurf accounts everywhere...

[The_Jackal]

In other news. Smurf accounts...Smurf accounts everywhere...

Yes, smurfs is yet another reason why competitive ranking sucks. People don't want to risk hurting their rank because they're trying on a Hero they want to improve with.

[Silverraptor]

I never understood it. Smurfs in league of legends I understand, but why pay $40 again for a second account? I don't get it.

[NeoVid]

So it's not your primary account that gets banned?

[The_Jackal]

So it's not your primary account that gets banned?

Well, I don't think smurfing is against the rules, currently. And truth to tell, smurfing by really good players who've bought the game a second time just to have a 'low stakes' account is, I suspect, a fairly rare issue. More common is the player who deliberately tanks their rating to either go for zero SR, or more often, just to have fun beating up on low-skill players. This actually creates two injured parties. First, the team you tanked with who's basically stuck with a loss so they can drop MMR into the scrub pool, and then the scrubs themselves who get curbstomped by someone who belongs at a higher MMR.

[Avilan the Grey]

I think I will benefit from the changes to Lucio. I am, at where I am skill wise, having to play him like what the new changes will make him anyway. Basically an Overwatch equivalent of a tanky Rogue build in Dragon age.
Several times I have had to lead the charge to conquer an objective. I also usually end up being the only one pushing the payload. Sometimes in combination with Rein, Bastion or Mercy.

As another player said in the team chat the other day: "The fact that both healers are the only ones caring about the payload is kinda ridiculous". Said to the four other player. He was playing Mercy.

[The_Jackal]

I think I will benefit from the changes to Lucio. I am, at where I am skill wise, having to play him like what the new changes will make him anyway. Basically an Overwatch equivalent of a tanky Rogue build in Dragon age.
Several times I have had to lead the charge to conquer an objective. I also usually end up being the only one pushing the payload. Sometimes in combination with Rein, Bastion or Mercy.

As another player said in the team chat the other day: "The fact that both healers are the only ones caring about the payload is kinda ridiculous". Said to the four other player. He was playing Mercy.

This is a wrong-headed approach, imo. Yes, supports generally try to do their job in spite of poor team cohesion, but if you're alone on the objective, you're part of the problem. Supports, Lucio in particular, shouldn't go alone ANYWHERE. Find your teammates and help them do what they're doing, even if it's stupid. Your best bet, IMO, is heading back to spawn with speed aura on and bring the respawns back into the battle. But failing that, pay attention to the kill feed, find the strongest player on your team, and help him carry. Yes, Lucio CAN stall against the right opponents, but as the mechanical skill of your opponents improve, solo-styling on the payload will result in more trips to the kill-cam, nothing more.

[Avilan the Grey]

This is a wrong-headed approach, imo. Yes, supports generally try to do their job in spite of poor team cohesion, but if you're alone on the objective, you're part of the problem. Supports, Lucio in particular, shouldn't go alone ANYWHERE. Find your teammates and help them do what they're doing, even if it's stupid. Your best bet, IMO, is heading back to spawn with speed aura on and bring the respawns back into the battle. But failing that, pay attention to the kill feed, find the strongest player on your team, and help him carry. Yes, Lucio CAN stall against the right opponents, but as the mechanical skill of your opponents improve, solo-styling on the payload will result in more trips to the kill-cam, nothing more.

On the other hand, if nobody is pushing the payload, we'll loose.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

On the other hand, if nobody is pushing the payload, we'll lose.

Communication through team chat is your best friend there then. Or let the other support (who you said was also pushing) push it -- of all the supports, Lucio is the MOST useless when far from allies. At least Zenyatta and Ana can heal at range, and Mercy can dash in with a clutch revive if needed.

[Avilan the Grey]

Communication through team chat is your best friend there then. Or let the other support (who you said was also pushing) push it -- of all the supports, Lucio is the MOST useless when far from allies. At least Zenyatta and Ana can heal at range, and Mercy can dash in with a clutch revive if needed.

As I have stated above, but more elaborate:

I know you need healing. But I won't go hunting you down when you are a flanking Genji that decided to go solo-hunting on the other side of the map. Limp your way over here or die.
I know you need healing. I am right here. So are you. You are being healed RIGHT NOW. Shut up and push the payload.
I know you need healing. But I'm sort of dead and has to make my way over there ASAP. You SAW me die. I'll be there in 4 seconds.
I know you need healing. I am healing you right now, but if that's not enough for you, maybe change to Mercy or Zen? My healing is only so powerful.

Point is: I agree, in theory. But here's the thing: BECAUSE he works like he does, it should be in your interest to stay close to him. Oh and close to the bloody objective, as well. I am all for setting up a forward block in a bottle neck. I will be right there with you. But after the blockade is broken I will try to be where I can be most useful. And that is damn hard if you all scatter in 5 different ways.
Basically my priority in that situation is:
1. Objective.
2. Rein / Other main tank.
3. Bastion.
4. Whoever else.

I know I am a "noob" and in bronze. But my experience is that a Lucio with a camping Bastion or Rein can hold the payload by themselves for long enough to allow the rest of the team to easily get back there in time.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

I know you need healing. But I won't go hunting you down when you are a flanking Genji that decided to go solo-hunting on the other side of the map. Limp your way over here or die.
I know you need healing. But I'm sort of dead and has to make my way over there ASAP. You SAW me die. I'll be there in 4 seconds.
I know you need healing. I am healing you right now, but if that's not enough for you, maybe change to Mercy or Zen? My healing is only so powerful.

Correct: this is USUALLY the right decision.

I know you need healing. I am right here. So are you. You are being healed RIGHT NOW. Shut up and push the payload.

This is not always the right decision. Often the correct decision is "leave one person to push the payload, and make ourselves an opening further ahead so we can push further, since the area ahead is dangerous and the area here is safe.

Most games I play we don't group up on the payload in a nice little clump. That means if they fight us, we may lose all progress -- it's what we do when it's necessary, or when we're exchanging occasional fire or need the cover. If we fight AHEAD of the payload or flank to the sides and create multiple attack angles we can make progress while fighting them, and they have to get through us to stop our progress.

Point is: I agree, in theory. But here's the thing: BECAUSE he works like he does, it should be in your interest to stay close to him.

I'd argue it's closer to the other way around. He's a speedy, mobile character -- it's often in HIS interest to be near YOU.

But after the blockade is broken I will try to be where I can be most useful.

And I personally feel the most useful place is where you're A: with an ally, and B: not a big target while your team respawns and regroups. The payload is great if you can do so safely, but that's probably not my first option.

And that is damn hard if you all scatter in 5 different ways.

Note that this is the first time in this discussion you mentioned your team scattering all over the map. Not being on the payload is not necessarily the equivalent of being scattered.

[Avilan the Grey]

Note that this is the first time in this discussion you mentioned your team scattering all over the map. Not being on the payload is not necessarily the equivalent of being scattered.

Oh I end up alone on the payload for two main reasons:

1. Everyone scatters, aka leaving me alone.
2. Everyone else is dead and if I leave, we lose (as in I am the only one keeping the payload from being pushed those last meters).

Now, I think we have talked past each other; I have no objection with a controlled battlefield. It is the scattering and individual glory hunting that doesn't work for me. A good team, in my experience, fluctuates almost like a jellyfish or squid with the payload / objective in the center. Flowing in and out around it.
If we kill enough people in the other team, 3-5 players tend to camp on the payload until re-engaged. Flankers... flank, of course. Or scout (not a big difference).

As for communications btw... I don't know if you're US or EU, but the EU servers tend to be very quiet due to well... language options. A French Pharah will not be in the right position because somebody tells him to be somewhere in Polish.
Most people seems to play quiet, and instead use voice lines in game to tell the team basics.

[The_Jackal]

On the other hand, if nobody is pushing the payload, we'll loose.

That is definitely true, but if you're a support who's not supporting anyone but yourself, you're going to likely lose as well. Ultimately, there's no hotfix for human stupidity, but if you can get a microphone and use it to rally your teammates to the objective, without getting negative, all but the most obstinate and selfish players will likely come help push the cart.

Ultimately, you can't control other players, so just make sure that your decisions are sound. I think you'll actually have more success climbing out of low MMR by helping your teammates doing what they're doing without dying than by standing on the cart by yourself. A good support is NEVER alone unless the alternative is immediate loss. If you're the last player standing on a teamfight that didn't go your way, escape if you can, or, more likely, jump off a cliff so you can respawn with your group and come in with them on another teamfight. This is counter-intuitive, but you're better off immediately dying in the face of overwhelming force than stringing out a hopeless run for your life for another 10 seconds, so your team has to go in to the next teamfight either without you, or 10 seconds later.

This is not always the right decision. Often the correct decision is "leave one person to push the payload, and make ourselves an opening further ahead so we can push further, since the area ahead is dangerous and the area here is safe.

That tactic can really backfire on you against more coordinated teams. If you leave 1 or 2 guys on the payload behind your front four, and the enemy team has the presence of mind to group up with a 6-stack, your 4 guys are likely to get rolled. Why is this? Because being able to aim while remaining evasive is a LOT more difficult than just concentrating on firing alone. If I'm under no pressure and can line up my shots without worrying about counter-battery, I can get in the neighborhood of 40-50% accuracy on a hitscan Hero. That's more than enough to burn through a hero much faster than they can be healed. So, in that putative 4 on 6 fight your front posse is having, there's two enemy players who can engage un-opposed, and quickly burn a player, after which the advantage only increases to the outnumbering team.

Most games I play we don't group up on the payload in a nice little clump. That means if they fight us, we may lose all progress -- it's what we do when it's necessary, or when we're exchanging occasional fire or need the cover. If we fight AHEAD of the payload or flank to the sides and create multiple attack angles we can make progress while fighting them, and they have to get through us to stop our progress.

The higher you get, the more important staging decisive team-fights is. That means you DO need to stay together, and only punish the enemy team for peeking. By all means, you should maneuver to retain terrain advantage. That's the advantage that Heroes with mobility powers enjoy. If you're going up the ramp toward Eichenwalde 2, by all means your attack team should take positions on high ground if it's not contested by the defending team. But if the defenders are already set up on that bridge and behind it, you DON'T just ride the cart into their ambush, and you don't send half your team to flush them off the bridge. You send EVERYBODY to go kill them in a teamfight (by either going through the castle or around the left flank), then go back to push the cart while they respawn. Half-measures will ensure everyone gets killed, unless there's an enormous disparity in team skill.

I'd argue it's closer to the other way around. He's a speedy, mobile character -- it's often in HIS interest to be near YOU.

Exactly. Lucio can't be near everyone, but he should be letting his tanks and DPS dictate the plays, because he needs the space and safety they create to ensure he doesn't die early in the fight. You can't mind-control every team full of derps to do the right thing, but you can make sure YOU'RE doing the right thing, and that is helping your teammates stay alive, and throwing your not inconsiderable firepower into the enemy team when they do.

And I personally feel the most useful place is where you're A: with an ally, and B: not a big target while your team respawns and regroups. The payload is great if you can do so safely, but that's probably not my first option.

I absolutely agree with this. Don't face alone, don't let your teammates face alone. If you're on a team where the other 5 players are determined to make 5 separate flank attacks, you're probably going to lose anyway, so you might as well make one of those flank attacks a 2 on X instead of a 1 on X, instead of pushing the cart while the rest of your team dies.

Note that this is the first time in this discussion you mentioned your team scattering all over the map. Not being on the payload is not necessarily the equivalent of being scattered.

It's worth pointing out that some of your team can and SHOULD flank, if they've got the toolkit to support it. Genji, Tracer, Sombra, Winston, Reaper, can all stage attacks from unexpected angles and bypass choke points. Yes, they should NOT be asking for a Lucio heal in those circumstances, the same abilities that let them operate away from the group should also let them see to their own healing.

In the end, just remember that while you're in Bronze, so is the enemy team, so the 5 chunderheads on your team are matched up against 5 chunderheads on the opposite team, so in a lot of circumstances, the 'follow one guy and help him win' plan can actually be quite effective, certainly enough so to get you out of bronze and get into ranks where players have some rudimentary conception of teamwork.