OOTS #1105 - The Discussion Thread

[BaronOfHell]

Am I missing any that are truly in that league?

How about Fyron's son?

[Chei]

So folks have pointed out that Hilgya was in the Dungeon of Dorukan because Loki instructed her to get the amulet.

If Loki is playing at the same level as Odin, then the amulet was never his goal, and his actual goal was to have Hilgya and Durkon cross paths just so she'd be here today.

What is it they say? Such games the gods play with their toys?

[Peelee]

Speaking of SMBC: ten-year callback.

Oh man, I knew about as it happened, too. Now I'm sad I'd forgotten.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Well, I sure have been proven wrong. That was a masterful example of storytelling there—I definitely did not expect the child.

Turn Undead, from a cleric of an evil god? Not Rebuke Undead? I wonder if she's changed gods.

An interesting point. Have we seen anyone else Rebuke Undead in-comic?

Speaking of SMBC: ten-year callback.

Holy cow, some how I missed that one! That’s a pretty good call-back.

[WindStruck]

Yes! Yes! I was correct!

And now for my grand prediction.

Hilgya will return to the story! Because she will be needed to play a crucial roll in either the fight against Zykon or the evil Durkula.

Why will Hilgya return? Because of Durkon. Only because of him, like this latest strip details. Durkon was not just some other renegade dwarf wandering about human lands rebelling against tradition. He was in the human lands because it was his duty, and he reminded Hilgya of hers!

Mark my words, she will return! What's really good about this is we will get to see her art updated!

This was the discussion on strip 1098, where all the characters discussed how Durkon had positively affected their lives, and the outcome of the world, by extension.

[Jasdoif]

I think that does constitute evidence (and Vaarsuvius' mass-murder constitutes significantly greater evidence) that Rich's quote about babies not needing stats has been misinterpreted to some extent. The baby is not safe, but anyone who harms him will be shown to be doing something horribly evil (comparable to harming a black dragon hatchling).

All true. That said, the baby is supremely unlikely to take damage die from indirect causes, anyone intentionally targeting the baby would be doing so in lieu of targeting an actual threat to their existence, and the destroy-the-world plot would take the baby along with everyone else on the planet anyway. The baby's likely the safest individual in the entire tunnel system.

If Loki is playing at the same level as Odin, then the amulet was never his goal, and his actual goal was to have Hilgya and Durkon cross paths just so she'd be here today.

The two goals are not mutually exclusive.

[Chei]

An interesting point. Have we seen anyone else Rebuke Undead in-comic?

We've seen Redcloak Command Undead, which is what Evil clerics can do when their Rebuke is much stronger than the HD of the undead, similar to how Good clerics can destroy undead with a powerful enough Turning.

The two goals are not mutually exclusive.

I mean, I feel like that's part of the problem when you incorporate prophecy and divine intent and the like. Since we can look back at what actually happened, assuming everything so far has played out to the relevant gods' whims, then Loki knew he wouldn't get the amulet, but would get a cleric with a bun in her oven and a chip on her shoulder. So following that logic, Loki sent out Hilgya knowing he wouldn't get the amulet and probably never had the goal of obtaining it in the first place.

[Peelee]

And move back to the former group later, and have the groups intermingle, too. After the years it's turned out to be a large set of interwoven plotlines.

The first couple hundred comics aren't the best, of course. They never are: any writer's first work is not going to be his best.

Devil's Advocate: in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series, the quality goes down pretty steadily; the first is by far the best.

[Kurald Galain]

Devil's Advocate: in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series, the quality goes down pretty steadily; the first is by far the best.

I didn't say the first part of a series was never the best, I said the first work of an author is never the best. The first HHGTG book is not Douglas Adams's first work.

[HandofShadows]

Holy Snail Snot. That is the kind of thing that makes The Giant such a good writer.

[Rogar Demonblud]

By All the Gods of My Ancestors!

Rich, if anyone ever tells you that you are not a god among giants, point them our way. We will swiftly disabuse them of that notion.

YAFGC was a daily for years, right up until Rich and Hilary had Bundle O'Joy #2 and found out that doubling the number of kids quadruples that amount of childcare needed. After many tribulations, they're back to a MWF schedule.

And add me to the list that think Durkon Jr will be staying with Grandma Sigdi after this is done.

[Shining Wrath]

Ah, nice observation.

Further observation: she's the only cleric shown, and that's why she took command and ordered a retreat.

[Keltest]

We've seen Redcloak Command Undead, which is what Evil clerics can do when their Rebuke is much stronger than the HD of the undead, similar to how Good clerics can destroy undead with a powerful enough Turning.



I mean, I feel like that's part of the problem when you incorporate prophecy and divine intent and the like. Since we can look back at what actually happened, assuming everything so far has played out to the relevant gods' whims, then Loki knew he wouldn't get the amulet, but would get a cleric with a bun in her oven and a chip on her shoulder. So following that logic, Loki sent out Hilgya knowing he wouldn't get the amulet and probably never had the goal of obtaining it in the first place.

Youre assuming that Loki is remotely prophetic, rather than just doing whatever interests him at the time.

[Peelee]

I didn't say the first part of a series was never the best, I said the first work of an author is never the best. The first HHGTG book is not Douglas Adams's first work.

Was YAFGC or Order of the Stick their respective authors' first works? (Honest question, I don't know).

[Jasdoif]

I mean, I feel like that's part of the problem when you incorporate prophecy and divine intent and the like. Since we can look back at what actually happened, assuming everything so far has played out to the relevant gods' whims, then Loki knew he wouldn't get the amulet, but would get a cleric with a bun in her oven and a chip on her shoulder. So following that logic, Loki sent out Hilgya knowing he wouldn't get the amulet and probably never had the goal of obtaining it in the first place.

If Loki knew he wouldn't get the amulet, then Loki knew he wouldn't get the amulet. The first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club, too.

I think it's better to determine what scenarios would account for Loki knowing he wouldn't get the amulet, while not knowing what Hel had planned at the Godsmoot.

[schmunzel]

Durkon's a daddy.

I
did
not
see
this
one
coming

sch

[Rogar Demonblud]

Also, given the title for today's strip, I think Hilgya still working for Loki is a safe bet.

[The_Weirdo]

Turn Undead, from a cleric of an evil god? Not Rebuke Undead? I wonder if she's changed gods.

Maybe she's just Chaotic Neutral. She didn't really do anything evil.

[Spanish_Paladin]

Whaaaaaat???!!! O_o

P. S. Durkon is a daddy :_)

[Kurald Galain]

Was YAFGC or Order of the Stick their respective authors' first works? (Honest question, I don't know).

I think that Rich would state that his writing and artistic skills have improved throughout the story, and that the later OOTS books are overall better than the first one (e.g. in the commentary section of his books). The same applies to YAFGC. That does not imply that the last book is always the best, of course. It means that in their first work, any artist/writer/composer/whatnot is still trying to figure out how to do this.

[MReav]

Does this mean Brian Clevinger no longer holds the record for the longest wait between set-up and payoff in a webcomic?

JayDee of Captain SNES had a 15-year period between one of his bits.

Though this does beat that one out in terms of plot-relevance (the aforementioned 15-year wait was for a minor joke).

[Luccan]

Huh. So that finally came full circle. Wasn't expecting the kid.

[Peelee]

I think that Rich would state that his writing and artistic skills have improved throughout the story, and that the later OOTS books are overall better than the first one (e.g. in the commentary section of his books). The same applies to YAFGC. That does not imply that the last book is always the best, of course. It means that in their first work, any artist/writer/composer/whatnot is still trying to figure out how to do this.

Even if it's not their first work, the early days are often noted by growing pains as the author tries to find the voice and standing of the series. Futurama, for instance, starts off weak compared to later seasons, despite having quite a bit of experience in animated comedy and satire. Same for OotS; the first hundred strips are regarded by many people, the author included, as weaker than the rest. Conversely, there are works that don't have these growing pains, such as HHGG. And there are works that absolutely were the author's first works that knocked it out of the park, such as Harper Lee.

[schmunzel]

<snip>

As to the comic:
Bravo, Giant, or as we used to say when we went to the opera: Bravissimo! (Operas have a long tradition of ladies in horned helmets singing .. so this is almost topical ... )
*Long Applause*

yay for horned girls with or without helmet!

There was so much tension over Durkon before.
This has pushed that so far beyond what it was that honestly,
I'm probably just going to cry.
Because as much as I want this to end well,
I don't think that's what the Giant has in mind.

It is truly enlightening (depressing) how far and wide the giant casts his storytelling web.
I was so fixated on the ways to save him ...

we are no doubt on the way to true dwarven drama!
/me intones the aria of sigrun


Edit: mmmh on second thought rather Brünhild I think


sch

[BrolySSG]

Well... No? She kills one Vampire (spawn?) in panel 8 of the first page. So no, no useless attacks

Actually Mynra's attack was null the first time, so was her last attack before spawns fleed in gaseous form.

Perhaps Elans +1 to attack rolls and damage' bard song bonus, Her bonus for attack of oportunity, her protection from evil, getting the weakest Lv1 spawn in the group, and a natural 20 perhaps did the trick, unless she levels up in the next hours, i don't expect Mynra killing a vampire spawn all by her own again

[Christopher K.]

Well, then, that was unexpected. I'd all but assumed that Hilgya wasn't going to be showing up again, let alone with a widdle Durkon Jr. in tow.

Considering how the two parted ways, though, this could be a pretty problematic development.

[Grand Arbiter]

I'd say Checkov's Sniper Rifle.

More of a Chekhov's Howitzer in my opinion.

[AutomatedTeller]

btw - I presume she's evil, because she's looking to help murder Durkon. Not kill, or raise.... but murder. Murder is not a term that good people use and I'd guess not one thrown lightly around by neutrals.

is anyone in the party going to recognize her?

[Rogan]

Actually Mynra's attack was null the first time, so was her last attack before spawns fleed in gaseous form.

Perhaps Elans +1 to attack rolls and damage' bard song bonus, Her bonus for attack of oportunity, her protection from evil, getting the weakest Lv1 spawn in the group, and a natural 20 perhaps did the trick, unless she levels up in the next hours, i don't expect Mynra killing a vampire spawn all by her own again

I doubt she did no damage on those other two occasions. I'd rather say, she did deal damage, but not enough for a 1 shot. And you are not expected to kill your enemys in one hit all the time. And since we have no information about the HP of the vampires, we can not tell if she was lucky to kill one or unlucky to let the other two survive.

[Lord Raziere]

Huh. Well then.

That chekov gun finally fired. its been what, close to a thousand comics? wow. thats near 8-bit theatre levels of brick joke there, except its dramatic rather than funny.

Hilgya isn't evil though. she has turn undead. thats not an ability evil clerics can have. and Hilgya's chaotic. "murder" is probably just hyperbole considering this is a family matter.

so yeah, this will throw a curve ball at all this. I can't help but feel as if this is important considering Durkon's own daddy issues, and how his father left him and his mother.