The Last Jedi - There At First.. wait

[Dr.Samurai]

Kylo Ren is interesting as a character (at least to some people), but he barely qualifies as a villain at all, or at least, not a villain on the scale required for a trilogy of Star Wars movies. He's a deeply conflicted young man with some serious complexes regarding his parents and is trying to figure out what to do with his life.

Kylo interested me in TFA, for a bit. He was powerful, menacing, and conflicted about something to do with Vader. Then he starts losing to Rey, and he kills Han without me understanding what led up to that moment. I mean, I get that he's a dark sider but... what happened to him that made him able to kill his dad? Then he loses to Rey, who had no training that we knew of. So as the movie progressed I started to lose interest because I felt like the movie was tearing down its own bad guy.

Now in TLJ, he's still conflicted, still trying to win Rey over, still losing to her, and I still don't know why he feels or does any of that.

I agree that he could be an interesting character, but not in the role that he's currently in, and not if he's the same across multiple movies.

Completely agreed, and my biggest problem with the trilogy as a whole at this time. Kylo is an utter failure on every level, Snoke is a cheap Palpatine knock-off and now dead, Hux lost all semblance of dignity or respectability in TLJ, and they keep squandering any potential Phasma might have by relegating her to doing essentially nothing (and might have killed her off).

It's interesting because there was a noticeable attempt to curb the usage of lightsabers in this movie. Well, actually even blasters really. There wasn't much action in that regard I suppose. Point being, if you're going to shy away from lightsabers (because why not in a Star Wars movie...) then Phasma has the potential to be totally menacing. You've given her that spiffy armor, give her some weapon upgrades. Give her like Bounty Hunter tech from SWTOR or something and make her totally badass. Rian Johnson made so many bizarre decisions in this movie and one of them was bringing Phasma back to easily dispose of her a second time.

I believe there is a line in the movie where Hux specifically says the First Order army belongs to him. Which sets up an interesting dynamic after Snoke is killed, but that's immediately shattered when Kylo bitch slaps him with the force. Still, there was a look that Hux gave him near the end after Kylo squandered their opportunity to defeat the Resistance. I'm guessing this is going to be a plot point in the next movie. Except Abrams is back now and will probably retcon much of this dumpster fire.

He was winning until Rey closed her eyes and the theme music played. Then he lost.

Exactly. "The Awakening" defeated Kylo Ren, not his wound. He defeated her easily, then he said "I can show you the ways of the Force" and Rey said "The Force..." and then seems to remember something and then curb stomps him.

We were all waiting for the explanation as to what occurred there, and now we know that she simply grew in the Force as he did. Except... since when did the Force give you lightsaber skills? Or ship piloting skills? Like... this new "balance" doesn't even give you potential, it gives you the actual skills themselves.

Rey: Operator?
The Force: Yes?
Rey: Kylo Ren is becoming a better pilot. I need better pilot skills.
The Force: Right away! *the Force uploads piloting skills to Rey's avatar in the Matrix*

Hell he was back to a hundred percent and he had a battle of wills in this one and he still lost.

Yeah, Rey saves his life, then equals him in a battle of wills, then recovers before him and miraculously escapes the ship. She literally can float into the enemy stronghold, turn one villain against the other, defy both of them, and walk away unscathed lol.

[Scowling Dragon]

Why its almost like without training or effort its difficult to make villains seem threatening or heroes seem compelling!

You can't retroactively make a overpowered protagonist (Il drop mary sue if people have problems with the semantics of it) seem reasonably developed with backstory.

Rey almost feels like a Star wars version of a Doom Story. Rey just swoops around almost never encumbured by whats in front of her.

[warty goblin]

I like Adam Driver's performance a lot. He hits this slightly creepy, skin-crawly note that really works for me.

At least for me though, the character doesn't make all that much sense. When he kills Han for instance, what's his motivation for doing so? Killing your father's sort of a big deal, it seems like the kind of thing giving the audience some context for would be nice. When Anakin kills the younglings, we know exactly why he's doing it. Was Han a terrible parent? No idea, but since pretty much everybody who watched the OT likes Han to one degree or another, I suspect most people assumed he isn't. Doing it for power doesn't make sense, because he's supposed to be all conflicted about it and not sure he should have.

Which makes no sense. The power and allure of the Dark Side isn't doing evil things, it's doing what you want with no regard for others. The previous movies have been pretty much entirely clear on this; fear, anger, jealousy, greed, these all lead to the Dark Side because they mean acting on your base, selfish emotions, and this in turn causes suffering and evil. Unless Kylo Ren really *wanted* to kill Han, doing it makes no sense as a way to gain more power from the Dark Side. Murdering your father in cold blood only makes sense if the point of the Dark Side is being evil for evil's sake.

It seems to me that the SQ has really slid almost entirely away from having the Force and the Dark Side rooted in a sort of Buddhism-Lite, and gone to a really even shallower sort of Saturday morning cartoon school of villainy. Killing Han doesn't seem to be him giving in to his emotions so much as him making himself do something because he's pinky-sworn himself to Team Evil. Kylo Ren literally says at one point he's tempted by the Light Side. This makes no sense, and is not how people act; there's no reason, no rationalization here, he's just evil and keeps doing evil for reasons and occasionally wants to do good but apparently won't let himself because what, he's sworn an oath to be a jerk or something?

I suppose he makes a bit more sense in TLJ, but only slightly. He's at least got a reason for hating Luke (although nothing in TFA indicates he hates Luke) and likewise has demonstrable reason for hating Snoke. Trying to kill both of them is very much Dark Side stuff by the previous understanding (except of course that killing Snoke is supposed to show he can be redeemed because Snoke is a bad guy, and killing bad guys is automatically good now, apparently). But there's not really anything to show that he's as conflicted as we keep being told he is; sure he doesn't kill Leia, but not shooting missiles at your Mom is sort of the default state, no? We aren't shown any evidence that she was a bad parent or anything, he's not forgiving her or letting go of something horrible done to him, he's acting like you would expect a person to act. Don't kill your parents absent a *really* compelling reason.

I do like the idea of the Darth Vader wannabee, but TLJ screws that up. It would make sense if Snoke's case was something like 'your mega-powerful grandfather was actually awesome, and you can be just like him!' Now it's some ridiculous affect of Kylo's, and Snoke doesn't even want him running around in Vader cosplay.

tl;dr. I have no idea what Kylo Ren's motivations are, and he seems to mess up the more unique approach to morality of the Lucas era Star Wars.

[Reddish Mage]

Rian Johnson made so many bizarre decisions in this movie and one of them was bringing Phasma back to easily dispose of her a second time.

Still, there was a look that Hux gave him near the end after Kylo squandered their opportunity to defeat the Resistance. I'm guessing this is going to be a plot point in the next movie. Except Abrams is back now and will probably retcon much of this dumpster fire.

Rian Johnson brings a lot of things up just to easily dispose of them later in the movie. Including things brought up by the movie itself (like that code breaker character).

Abrams can retcon stuff he wants so that it remains significant. Johnson when asked about whether what Kylo Ren said about Rey’s parents was true answered “to me he believed it at the time he said it.” That answer is already weak and he watered it down further by saying he has no control over what the next director does.

And that was a decision Rian thought had a lot of weight to it.

Abrams can bring back whatever he wants, but he has to wrap up the story now, so there’s a limit to what new mysteries he can introduce.

If Abrams injects the meaning into what Rian Johnson took away it would be a lot like Return of the Jedi repeating the Death Star Explosion (if they don’t bring in another super-weapon and literally repeat a Death Star explosion).

However, as some has brought up, Abrams is not so good with concluding stories, he throws up mysteries without a solution in mind. Which means, if he doesn’t work against type, Episode IX is going to get an ending that will feel like the end of Lost.

[Scowling Dragon]

However, as some has brought up, Abrams is not so good with concluding stories, he throws up mysteries without a solution in mind. Which means, if he doesn’t work against type, Episode IX is going to get an ending that will feel like the end of Lost.

Not that Terrible. Again he did also make the Star Trek movies. Just expect nothing super substantial. Run of the mill, by the book sorta thing.

A Setpiece on some big important thing will end and then some meaningless platitude lines at the end about hope or renewal or something.

[Mechalich]

Why its almost like without training or effort its difficult to make villains seem threatening or heroes seem compelling!

I believe it goes deeper than that. Star Wars is pretty much the ultimately archetypal franchise. It has an incredibly pure version of the hero's journey. It doesn't even bother to provide actual names to major institutions they're just the 'Empire,' 'Rebellion,' and 'Republic.' Star Wars was the one franchise were you could call something a 'Death Star' and it actually fits the mood and doesn't come off as a joke. I mean this was the franchise that managed to develop an ongoing tradition of 'all Imperial ships are named after the meanest words in the English language we can find' to the point that they used up all the good nouns by the time the EU really got up to steam.

Rian Johnson spent all of TLJ in a very deliberate and painfully explicit attempt to subvert all of that. Which is an interesting hypothetical that would make a great term paper in film school - privately I suspect this is why so many critics were impressed - but it doesn't provide you with a viable chunk of a massive epic at the end of the day.

In fairness, making the ST was always going to be challenging. The story concluded in ROTJ. That's the natural endpoint. The Legends EU spent 15 years of in-universe timeline and over a decade of actual publication dithering around during what is effective the denouement of the OT (not that this wasn't fun sometimes). And when the time finally came to do something else they launched a giant alien invasion from beyond the galaxy to make it clear they were moving on (there were lots of problems with the New Jedi Order, but it was at least a new story)

JJ Abrams chose to launch the ST by making a cheap knock-off of the OT. This was a bad idea. The movie was well-executed, but the choices it made set the ST up for failure because there wasn't a new story there. In fact, given the overall similarity to various EU 'the Imperial Remnant's got themselves a superweapon and some dark jedi' plotlines they were in some sense still dithering around in the denouement (in fact, considering the shared preference for overly large ships, the similarities to Dark Empire are quite strong).

Rian Johnson was left with the option of trying to salvage the project as best he could, or doing something weird. He went weird, and I don't blame the impulse, since playing things straight would have been incredibly predictable and also probably lousy. What I don't agree with was the choice to go for subversion as the goal and in particular to just be sloppy about plot points and story structure while doing so. If The Last Jedi was an awesome highly artistic film that the fans hated, that would be something I could respect. But it's a crummy inconsistent film that the fans hated, and that's just a shame.

[Scowling Dragon]

Rian Johnson was left with the option of trying to salvage the project as best he could, or doing something weird. He went weird, and I don't blame the impulse, since playing things straight would have been incredibly predictable and also probably lousy. What I don't agree with was the choice to go for subversion as the goal and in particular to just be sloppy about plot points and story structure while doing so. If The Last Jedi was an awesome highly artistic film that the fans hated, that would be something I could respect. But it's a crummy inconsistent film that the fans hated, and that's just a shame.

Sloppy is just the right word. The man just doesn't care for the "How thus makes sense" as much as what is impressive.

Looper is a..Well Id even say GOOD film. But its details are as flabby as TLJ and it focuses more on impressive scene to scene moments, but not in anyway way logical even in BASIC things.
Sound Familiar? Thats this Movie in a nutshell. Cool scenes in vacumes, but nonsense together but also as part of a trilogy.

You can be sloppy in your own self contained film. But in a Series, in the MIDDLE of a trilogy sloppiness is unforgivable.

[Zevox]

It's interesting because there was a noticeable attempt to curb the usage of lightsabers in this movie. Well, actually even blasters really. There wasn't much action in that regard I suppose. Point being, if you're going to shy away from lightsabers (because why not in a Star Wars movie...) then Phasma has the potential to be totally menacing. You've given her that spiffy armor, give her some weapon upgrades. Give her like Bounty Hunter tech from SWTOR or something and make her totally badass. Rian Johnson made so many bizarre decisions in this movie and one of them was bringing Phasma back to easily dispose of her a second time.

I believe there is a line in the movie where Hux specifically says the First Order army belongs to him. Which sets up an interesting dynamic after Snoke is killed, but that's immediately shattered when Kylo bitch slaps him with the force. Still, there was a look that Hux gave him near the end after Kylo squandered their opportunity to defeat the Resistance. I'm guessing this is going to be a plot point in the next movie. Except Abrams is back now and will probably retcon much of this dumpster fire.

Yeah, I'm with you all around on that. Honestly, I'd rather see someone like Hux or Phasma step up to main villain status at this point - partially because I think Kylo's beyond saving, partially because it would be nice to see someone who isn't a force-user take center-stage for once, since that would force the villains to actually act competently, since their leader can't fall back on personal superpowers if the heroes back him into a corner. (Or maybe it would just make them that much more easily beaten, at the rate the sequels are going, but if that's the case nothing will salvage things from here.) It's sad to see how they're actually being treated instead. If Hux had managed to take authority over the First Order rather than Kylo after Snoke's death, I might think quite differently of things at this point. Instead I see little hope of him being more than a dissatisfied toady who might, if we're lucky, pull something that helps the heroes bring Kylo down in the end - though I'm not betting on him doing so in a way that lets him actually take authority after Kylo is beaten.

And yeah, Abrams being back for the next one... bleh. I'm afraid that might mean we just go back to rehashing the originals in the next one, and perhaps even undoing some of what I actually liked about this one, which was largely it throwing out things like the Rey's parents mystery or Snoke. Just an extra reason for me to default to not seeing it barring better-than-expected word of mouth after its release I suppose.

[Reddish Mage]

Well, Rian Johnson might get a chance to craft a Star Wars trilogy of his own.

I don’t see what he does as having the potential for a 3-movie length treatment. Everything said about Looper and what we see in TLJ, is that there is no coherence to what he does and he plays fast and loose with the logic.

That can work for a stand alone movie, but it seems like he would gets lost somewhere in the middle (perhaps movie #2) of a 3 movie trilogy and commit truly horendous crimes against logic to wrap the thing up.

This might already happen with the our current trilogy.

[Giggling Ghast]

On a side note, Mark Hamill has renounced his renunciation of The Last Jedi.

Mark Hamill @HamillHimself
I regret voicing my doubts and insecurities in public. Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make a good movie. I got more than that - @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/st...6%7Ctwterm%5E3

[Renegade Paladin]

On a side note, Mark Hamill has renounced his renunciation of The Last Jedi.

Mark Hamill @HamillHimself
I regret voicing my doubts and insecurities in public. Creative differences are a common element of any project but usually remain private. All I wanted was to make a good movie. I got more than that - @rianjohnson made an all-time GREAT one! #HumbledHamill

https://twitter.com/HamillHimself/st...6%7Ctwterm%5E3

Yeah, that's contractual obligation talking.

[Mechalich]

Yeah, that's contractual obligation talking.

Quite. Of course, it is also possible that Hamill changed his mind when he saw the finished product, and I could see why. Portrayal of the character aside, Luke Skywalker has the biggest personal journey, the best character moments, and several of the best lines. Hamill out-acts everyone else by a mile in TLJ, which isn't to say that the other performances are bad just that his is much more potent and honestly most of the other characters aren't positioned to let their actors show off with the exception of Adam Driver (a good performance, but nothing on Hamill's). I can certainly see reconsidering your opinion on the year's biggest movie when you are clearly the best actor in it.

[LaZodiac]

Yeah, that's contractual obligation talking.

Yes clearly it's some kind of conspiracy to make us like the bad movie and not, his opinion changed. He's an old man there are no contractual obligations to be nice about a film, I doubt he'd even care. Given what he said earlier it's clear he did not.

[Chives]

#HumbledHamill

Something about that is downright unsettling.

[Mechalich]

Yes clearly it's some kind of conspiracy to make us like the bad movie and not, his opinion changed. He's an old man there are no contractual obligations to be nice about a film, I doubt he'd even care. Given what he said earlier it's clear he did not.

The tweet specifically says he regrets 'voicing' his issues. Not that he regrets having them or has recanted them. Mark Hamill is an old-time industry pro. He's been active in Hollywood in some capacity more or less continuously since 1970 (his IMDB has a surprisingly lengthy list of pre-Star Wars entries). He understands the things you are not supposed to do, and one of them, as mentioned in this tweet, is air creative differences publically. Actors hate the movies they star in - even universally acclaimed ones - all the time, in the same way that sports stars can hate the teams they play on even if they're winning championships, but you don't bad mouth productions you're in. Hamill broke the unwritten rule and I suspect genuinely feels bad about doing so regardless of his true feelings regarding TLJ.

Additionally there is a significant monetary incentive for him to retain a positive relationship with Disney.

Hamill is believed to have made something in the high seven figures to low eight figures (so probably somewhere around 10 million) for Last Jedi. He no doubt would very much like to earn several million more for an appearance as a Force Ghost in Episode IX - who wouldn't, that's like one scene he can probably film in a single day. He'd also no doubt like to leave open the option to appear in cameos in additional upcoming movies either as Luke or the voice of Luke. Hamill is not absurdly rich - estimates of his pre-TLJ net worth are in the mid seven figures - and his ST paycheck overall might conceivably double his wealth.

Also, Hamill is only 66. That's not young, but he could easily live for another twenty years. Plenty of time for money to still matter.

[Velaryon]

TLJ places Kylo Ren in charge of the First Order - a massive conquering army of imitation Space Nazis. The thing is, aside from trying to capture the girl he has a rather unhealthy crush on and sticking it to his parents and his uncle he doesn't appear to want to do anything with it. Kylo's not even really part of the First Order, it's clear he's with them mostly because that's where Snoke was and because his mom was/is fighting them. Kylo has less reason to turn to evil and try to conquer the galaxy than his EU counterpart Jacen did - at least that idiot had a (terrible) ideological justification and the government he launched a coup against was legitimacy awful (the Legends EU, or possibly just Troy Denning, had some sort of weird grudge against democracy).

What even was Jacen Solo's motivation for turning to the Dark Side? It has been many years since I read the abomination that was Legacy of the Force, but I remember the reasoning seeming tortured and nonsensical to me at the time.

And yeah, Abrams being back for the next one... bleh. I'm afraid that might mean we just go back to rehashing the originals in the next one, and perhaps even undoing some of what I actually liked about this one, which was largely it throwing out things like the Rey's parents mystery or Snoke. Just an extra reason for me to default to not seeing it barring better-than-expected word of mouth after its release I suppose.

I could have written this paragraph myself. Abrams being back does not fill me with confidence at all. TFA wasn't a horrible movie, but it was largely a retread of ANH, except it felt like Rey started her hero's journey about 3/4 of the way there already in terms of skill and power, and there was a bunch of typical Abrams teasing a bunch of mysteries that he likely had no idea what he would even want to do with. I would like to know more about Snoke, but IMO The Last Jedi resolved the question of Rey's parentage in the best possible way, and I would hate to see that undone by finding out "LOL j/k, she's totally a Skywalker/Solo/Kenobi/Palpatine/born of the Force with no parents/whatever after all."

[Lord Raziere]

Yes clearly it's some kind of conspiracy to make us like the bad movie and not, his opinion changed. He's an old man there are no contractual obligations to be nice about a film, I doubt he'd even care. Given what he said earlier it's clear he did not.

Yeah, I'll be honest, some of the theories in this thread get real out there. I can understand if the movie is not to peoples tastes but there are some overblown responses to this movie. and thats just in this thread, some of what I seen out on other websites is downright absurd. Honestly, I think we just have a solid case of internet hate machine blowing everything out of proportion.

[JBPuffin]

...Wait a minute. Abrams is doing IX.

This...this doesn't compute to me. Like, this was the guy who redid A New Hope (don't get me wrong, liked TFA, but not having to see The Empire Strikes Back again was really nice). Who asked for him back? I get he's talented, and I can't say I've disliked his work, but why change back to the guy you kicked off the team for the previous movie? I was looking forward to not seeing the Return of the Jedi remake...damnit, Disney...

[Dr.Samurai]

In fairness, making the ST was always going to be challenging. The story concluded in ROTJ. That's the natural endpoint. The Legends EU spent 15 years of in-universe timeline and over a decade of actual publication dithering around during what is effective the denouement of the OT (not that this wasn't fun sometimes). And when the time finally came to do something else they launched a giant alien invasion from beyond the galaxy to make it clear they were moving on (there were lots of problems with the New Jedi Order, but it was at least a new story)

JJ Abrams chose to launch the ST by making a cheap knock-off of the OT. This was a bad idea. The movie was well-executed, but the choices it made set the ST up for failure because there wasn't a new story there. In fact, given the overall similarity to various EU 'the Imperial Remnant's got themselves a superweapon and some dark jedi' plotlines they were in some sense still dithering around in the denouement (in fact, considering the shared preference for overly large ships, the similarities to Dark Empire are quite strong).

Rian Johnson was left with the option of trying to salvage the project as best he could, or doing something weird. He went weird, and I don't blame the impulse, since playing things straight would have been incredibly predictable and also probably lousy. What I don't agree with was the choice to go for subversion as the goal and in particular to just be sloppy about plot points and story structure while doing so.

Yeah it's a shame. I'm not sure what is so wrong with a working Republic being invaded by a foreign army from the Unknown Regions. There's an implication in the criticism to the criticism of this movie that if things had ended up "happy" or "good" it would be bland or boring or the same thing. And I just can't wrap my head around that. They defeated the empire at the end and restored the Republic. Now everything is great. Han and Leia are retired. Luke is still teaching. Make a show in the first movie that they're older and not as capable, physically, of being heroes as they once were.

Maybe the enemy comes "in peace", and Leia, as a political consultant lets say, seems uneasy. And Luke explains it's because the Force is warning them. But that's not enough to convince the Republic governing body. After setting itself up the enemy attacks, and the heroes rush to action. Kill them off however you want at this point. At least we get General Han instead of abandons-his-family Han, and Jedi Grandmaster Luke Skywalker instead of might-kill-his-sleeping-nephew Luke Skywalker.

I don't know what you'd do with Rey, since she can't stay as a bland protagonist with unexplained ever-increasing abilities. Ben, were you to keep the character, could instead have force potential that he never taps into because he fears Vader's legacy. His conflict could be in not wanting to use his Force abilities (and having never trained in them) while needing them to help in the fight against this new enemy.

Anyways, point being that I don't buy into this idea at all that in order for the sequel trilogy to be good or "original" the original trilogy had to be tore down and everyone has to be conflicted or a shadow of their former selves. How is this any less formulaic or predictable?

If The Last Jedi was an awesome highly artistic film that the fans hated, that would be something I could respect. But it's a crummy inconsistent film that the fans hated, and that's just a shame.

QFT.

And yeah, Abrams being back for the next one... bleh. I'm afraid that might mean we just go back to rehashing the originals in the next one, and perhaps even undoing some of what I actually liked about this one, which was largely it throwing out things like the Rey's parents mystery or Snoke. Just an extra reason for me to default to not seeing it barring better-than-expected word of mouth after its release I suppose.

Yeah to be clear, I'm not saying Abrams is going to save this thing. It just occurred to me as I was typing my previous post that he probably will take the movie in a different direction. I wasn't crazy about TFA either, so I don't have high hopes that he'll make Episode IX incredible. Especially if he reacts to the disappointment in TLJ (if only because they rarely get that right).

Yes clearly it's some kind of conspiracy to make us like the bad movie and not, his opinion changed. He's an old man there are no contractual obligations to be nice about a film, I doubt he'd even care. Given what he said earlier it's clear he did not.

That's not a conspiracy. He said he regrets voicing his opinion about the film in public. Uh, duh! Given that there are concerns about how this movie will continue performing, I'm sure either pressure was put on him to say something or he took it upon himself knowing that he was unprofessional in complaining publicly in the first place. I totally get why he was disappointed and disagreed with Rian, but he shouldn't have said anything. That's a big no-no.

Yeah, I'll be honest, some of the theories in this thread get real out there. I can understand if the movie is not to peoples tastes but there are some overblown responses to this movie. and thats just in this thread, some of what I seen out on other websites is downright absurd. Honestly, I think we just have a solid case of internet hate machine blowing everything out of proportion.

Right. Opinions count, unless you read them on the internet, then they don't.

Let's keep these reviews of the movie to acceptable levels, shall we:

Just watched The Last Jedi. I loved it. Was it perfect? No, but what movie is amirite?? It was a lot of fun, and if you just turn your mind off it's an enjoyable popcorn flick. Best Star Wars movie so far!!!

There, that's better...

[Reddish Mage]

Yes clearly it's some kind of conspiracy to make us like the bad movie and not, his opinion changed. He's an old man there are no contractual obligations to be nice about a film, I doubt he'd even care. Given what he said earlier it's clear he did not.

I wouldn’t be surprised if non-disparagement clauses are pretty standard in actor’s contracts. Also, its not uncommon for a contract to include public appearances. He is certainly expected to talk up the movie in those appearances.

I can’t say whether anything translates to a legal obligation not to air a dispute like this, but there is certainly a well-established expectation.

There are some legal obligations of some sort in that arena.

In short, I don’t know whether there is clear law establishing what Mark Hamill must and must not say, but there’s an expectation and potential issues that can be raised. Also, its possible he can just be fired or sidelined.

[Devonix]

I actually really like the idea of giving a conquring space nazi army to some one who has no idea what to do with it. It's incredibly interesting, especially since how it's set up there is no proper chain of command between Ben and Hux. Hux is theoretically still in control of the military and very much wants Ben dead, he's just too much of a coward to do it himself.

If I was doing the movie I'd have him set up a plan to get the Rebels to kill him for me. Hux is basically the Starwars version of Starscream now and there's a reason why Starscream is one of my favorite characters.

[Devonix]

I wouldn’t be surprised if non-disparagement clauses are pretty standard in actor’s contracts. Also, its not uncommon for a contract to include public appearances. He is certainly expected to talk up the movie in those appearances.

I can’t say whether anything translates to a legal obligation not to air a dispute like this, but there is certainly a well-established expectation.

There are some legal obligations of some sort in that arena.

To me it has a bit to do with how his statement seems to have been taken as a reason to attack the filmakers and crew. Something no good actor would ever want.

[Renegade Paladin]

Yes clearly it's some kind of conspiracy to make us like the bad movie and not, his opinion changed. He's an old man there are no contractual obligations to be nice about a film, I doubt he'd even care. Given what he said earlier it's clear he did not.

Yeah, actually there are. If you go around badmouthing a film you were involved in on the week of its release and don't do something to fix it quick, you will never work in Hollywood again.

[Chromascope3D]

Then he loses to Rey, who had no training that we knew of.

He got shot in the kidney with a gun that normally does this...

... like 5 minutes earlier. Homedude was still bleeding, give him a break.

[-D-]

...Wait a minute. Abrams is doing IX.

This...this doesn't compute to me. Like, this was the guy who redid A New Hope (don't get me wrong, liked TFA, but not having to see The Empire Strikes Back again was really nice). Who asked for him back? I get he's talented, and I can't say I've disliked his work, but why change back to the guy you kicked off the team for the previous movie? I was looking forward to not seeing the Return of the Jedi remake...damnit, Disney...

Who asked for him back? Why, the two billions he made on The Force Awakens.

Obviously, Disney decided to listen to the fans and gamble with Rian, and it didn't work to their liking. Now, it wasn't bad, per se. It recoup losses, but it wasn't the billion+ dollars Disney expected.

Problem is, I don't know how they'll deal with the setup Rian left. It's a mess. Your main evil guy is dead, his Bratty Sidekick doesn't seem like a credible threat. Neither does General Incompetence (Hux) or Captain Phlegma(?). You have heroes but they have less resources than Han Solo, on himself. And they have no allies, or credible villains to fight.

They can't do RotJ, first you need a serious threat for Rey to face, then you need a Vader and/or Emperor (I can't imagine Kylo as either).

[Renegade Paladin]

They can't do Return of the Jedi, because they already did it in this movie.

[Dr.Samurai]

He got shot in the kidney with a gun that normally does this...

... like 5 minutes earlier. Homedude was still bleeding, give him a break.

Well, the bowcaster is an interesting explanation for a puzzling scene, but that's not what Abrams is showing us during that fight. Kylo defeats both Finn and Rey. The reason he loses is because he reminds Rey of the Force and she inexplicably calls upon it and overpowers him easily, to the point where she nearly kills him and could have killed him had not the ground conveniently split open between them. We don't see him indicating that the wound is holding him back, we just see him taken by surprise at Rey's sudden power and proficiency.

The bowcaster wound is an afterthought to explain what happened before The Last Jedi explains to us that due to the balance in the Force, Rey is at least Kylo Ren's equal, and possibly (probably) actually stronger than him.

[Aquillion]

...Wait a minute. Abrams is doing IX.

This...this doesn't compute to me. Like, this was the guy who redid A New Hope (don't get me wrong, liked TFA, but not having to see The Empire Strikes Back again was really nice). Who asked for him back? I get he's talented, and I can't say I've disliked his work, but why change back to the guy you kicked off the team for the previous movie? I was looking forward to not seeing the Return of the Jedi remake...damnit, Disney...

They want something safe. Like, I tend to agree with you (putting aside the debate over TFA, I'd rather they take risks, sometimes making so-so films and sometimes making amazing new classics rather than just regurgitating the original trilogy over and over), but from the perspective of Disney, who paid a huge amount of money for this franchise, they want to milk it for as much as they can.

"Safe" movies are a good way of doing that. J. J. Abrams is safe. He'll make a movie that will earn lots and lots of money and mostly get critical acclaim, with just a few notes at the end of reviews saying "it's a pity it's just RotJ all over again. But it's executed well."

That said... as someone pointed out, they've put Rein Johnson at the head of the next trilogy. So I don't think they're that disappointed. TLJ is critically-acclaimed and is making a ton of money, and Disney does have to realize that remaking the original trilogy over and over is not sustainable.

[Devonix]

Well, the bowcaster is an interesting explanation for a puzzling scene, but that's not what Abrams is showing us during that fight. Kylo defeats both Finn and Rey. The reason he loses is because he reminds Rey of the Force and she inexplicably calls upon it and overpowers him easily, to the point where she nearly kills him and could have killed him had not the ground conveniently split open between them. We don't see him indicating that the wound is holding him back, we just see him taken by surprise at Rey's sudden power and proficiency.

The bowcaster wound is an afterthought to explain what happened before The Last Jedi explains to us that due to the balance in the Force, Rey is at least Kylo Ren's equal, and possibly (probably) actually stronger than him.

Not really, look at the scene, look at how Adam Driver is favoring his side, leaning against it. The camera focuses on the the blood from his wound going down to the white snow below. He's constantly pounding at his side to keep the adrenaline pumping because that's the only thing keeping him on his feet.

Everything about how the scene is shot is about how this is a person emotionally and physically on the edge of passing out.

[Yora]

Today it occured to me that Last Jedi is totally a rehash of The Empire Strikes Back, despite what people have been saying to the contrary.

The Battle of Hoth was moved to the end.
The chase by the Super Star Destroyer was without asteroids.
Rey goes to see a reluctant master on an isolated rainy planet and goes into a Dark Side Cave.
Rey leaves said planet to face Kylo (despite the urging of her teacher, I believe to remember).
Trip to a super shiny and fancy planet that turns out to not be at all what they hoped.

It's history repeating itself, but with the important difference that Rey faces Kylo and wins.

They want something safe. Like, I tend to agree with you (putting aside the debate over TFA, I'd rather they take risks, sometimes making so-so films and sometimes making amazing new classics rather than just regurgitating the original trilogy over and over), but from the perspective of Disney, who paid a huge amount of money for this franchise, they want to milk it for as much as they can.

"Safe" movies are a good way of doing that. J. J. Abrams is safe. He'll make a movie that will earn lots and lots of money and mostly get critical acclaim, with just a few notes at the end of reviews saying "it's a pity it's just RotJ all over again. But it's executed well."

That said... as someone pointed out, they've put Rein Johnson at the head of the next trilogy. So I don't think they're that disappointed. TLJ is critically-acclaimed and is making a ton of money, and Disney does have to realize that remaking the original trilogy over and over is not sustainable.

I really wonder how opinions of this movie will be in some years down the line. If I recall correctly, The Empire Strike Back also wasn't welcome with praise at first. I've been reading some reviews now that I've seen it, and the people who really liked it and praise it do it for just the same reasons that impressed me. The biggest problem people seem to have with it are its implications for the future continuity, but taken by itself for what it is, the craftsmanship on Last Jedi seems to be pretty high.

I first thought that all the good things I've seen in Last Jedi would be made irrelevant by Abrams directing the next movie. But from what I've read now, the script for Last Jedi was written while Force Awakens was still in production and in the credits it says that Abrams is the producer of Last Jedi. So I can't really believe that all the mysteries of Force Awakens were discarded without Abram's knowledge and against his approval. I don't expect to be a big fan of Episode 9 because I'm not a fan of how Abrams presents his material on the screen. But if the director of Last Jedi will be in charge of 10-12, then I actually do have some hopes that the series will continue to have my attention.