Erfworld Thread X: A Series of Unfortunate Cliffhangers

[Aquillion]

Wanda and Charlie for example make thinkamancy mistakes Maggie pinpoints right away.

Charlie, perhaps, but the only "mistake" I can recall Maggie pointing out was Wanda taking the backlash of her mind-control spell on Jillian rather than letting it kill / incapacitate Jillian, and my reading was that that was intentional.

(Although Maggie should know about their relationship, since she was a Faq unit? She was pretty cold and impersonal at that point, so perhaps it didn't even occur to her.)

[Rockphed]

Charlie, perhaps, but the only "mistake" I can recall Maggie pointing out was Wanda taking the backlash of her mind-control spell on Jillian rather than letting it kill / incapacitate Jillian, and my reading was that that was intentional.

(Although Maggie should know about their relationship, since she was a Faq unit? She was pretty cold and impersonal at that point, so perhaps it didn't even occur to her.)

Wait, Maggie was a Faq unit? Where do we see that?

[DataNinja]

(Although Maggie should know about their relationship, since she was a Faq unit?

I don't believe she was a FAQ unit, though I might be misremembering yet again. A quick glance at the wiki didn't show anything, though.

[guttering flame]

Charlie, perhaps, but the only "mistake" I can recall Maggie pointing out was Wanda taking the backlash of her mind-control spell on Jillian rather than letting it kill / incapacitate Jillian, and my reading was that that was intentional.

(Although Maggie should know about their relationship, since she was a Faq unit? She was pretty cold and impersonal at that point, so perhaps it didn't even occur to her.)

When Maggie helped Wanda liberate Lilith, Maggie found a backdoor to Wanda just as Wanda found a backdoor to Lilith/Charlie. They didn't protect themselves against inquisitive thinkamancers.

(Maggie was GK, not FAQ)

[deuterio12]

When Maggie helped Wanda liberate Lilith, Maggie found a backdoor to Wanda just as Wanda found a backdoor to Lilith/Charlie. They didn't protect themselves against inquisitive thinkamancers.

(Maggie was GK, not FAQ)

In the other hand all this time Charlie could just tap to listen directly into thinkmancy communications so every time Maggie sent something, Charlescom could be listening.

Backstabbing through backdoors is kinda the name of the game in Erfworld.

[Calemyr]

Other casters do multiclass. Wanda's an obvious example. But they're not very good in magic outside their inborn class. They can reach master class in their inborn speciality but they're amateurs in the other magics. Wanda and Charlie for example make thinkamancy mistakes Maggie pinpoints right away. Strings is the Thinkamancy way to see things. Dateamancers probably got a better way to perceive the relationships between units.

To my mind, there is a difference between being able to cast from multiple disciplines and actually being a multi-class caster. It's tied to the innates each class comes with. Wanda can cast from any discipline she wants, yes, but her senses, insights, and instincts are firmly croakamancer. She can tell at a glance the condition of a body, what she can do with it, etc. Jack has an innate sense of other people's perceptions. Sizemore can perceive the ground he walks on, its composition as well as any gaps or tunnels beneath him. It's those innates that make linked casters so effective, not simply their pooled casting talents. Wanda needed to see the volcano as a living thing to uncroak it, something that required Sizemore's dirtamancer innates to achieve.

Maggie looks like she could be going true multi-class, here. Even without the juice needed for actually Thinking (organizing and multi-threading thoughts as well as archiving them, etc), she's beginning to see the world from a new perspective, working out what may well be core principles for a different class. Wanda, while she could conceivably cast a date-o-mancy spell (and that may well describe some of her actions back in GK such as "distracting" Stanley or "torturing" Jillian), doesn't see the world the way a Data-o-mancer would. Maggie, on the other hand, seems to be doing just that, largely because she not only can't Think like a thinkamancer - she doesn't want to.

[guttering flame]

To my mind, there is a difference between being able to cast from multiple disciplines and actually being a multi-class caster. It's tied to the innates each class comes with. Wanda can cast from any discipline she wants, yes, but her senses, insights, and instincts are firmly croakamancer. She can tell at a glance the condition of a body, what she can do with it, etc. Jack has an innate sense of other people's perceptions. Sizemore can perceive the ground he walks on, its composition as well as any gaps or tunnels beneath him. It's those innates that make linked casters so effective, not simply their pooled casting talents. Wanda needed to see the volcano as a living thing to uncroak it, something that required Sizemore's dirtamancer innates to achieve.

Maggie looks like she could be going true multi-class, here. Even without the juice needed for actually Thinking (organizing and multi-threading thoughts as well as archiving them, etc), she's beginning to see the world from a new perspective, working out what may well be core principles for a different class. Wanda, while she could conceivably cast a date-o-mancy spell (and that may well describe some of her actions back in GK such as "distracting" Stanley or "torturing" Jillian), doesn't see the world the way a Data-o-mancer would. Maggie, on the other hand, seems to be doing just that, largely because she not only can't Think like a thinkamancer - she doesn't want to.

From what she told doll Isaac she's not limited to understanding corpses, she can perceive souls as well. Not sure what discipline that comes under. Probably a deep magic thing connected to croakamnacy, thinkamancy, dateamancy and/or dollamancy. Her linking with the other Haffaton casters broadened her world. Just like Maggie, she wasn't satisfied with the limits her discipline set on her when it couldn't bring her brother back to life. She fought and apparently achieved the ability to go beyond it into the realm of the titanic: bring the dead to life.

[Whispri]

We have SKIPsign unless I'm very much mistaken.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

SKIP!

Date	# Skipped
10/6/17	1st
10/20/17	2nd
11/7/17	1st
11/14/17	2nd
11/21/17	3rd
12/5/17	1st
12/19/17	2nd
1/5/18	1st
1/19/18	2nd
1/31/18	3rd
2/9/18	1st
2/27/18	2nd
3/13/18	1st
3/16/18	Late
3/28/18	2nd

[lord_khaine]

From what she told doll Isaac she's not limited to understanding corpses, she can perceive souls as well. Not sure what discipline that comes under. Probably a deep magic thing connected to croakamnacy, thinkamancy, dateamancy and/or dollamancy. Her linking with the other Haffaton casters broadened her world. Just like Maggie, she wasn't satisfied with the limits her discipline set on her when it couldn't bring her brother back to life. She fought and apparently achieved the ability to go beyond it into the realm of the titanic: bring the dead to life.

If you are talking about this comic
http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/287

Then Wanda is not talking about souls there. Only life.
I suspect its in regard to the Life Axis of magic and Erfworld.

[Dragonus45]

Oh look, they unlocked basic human decency by finally removing the awful mobile ads AND it have them a great excuse to squeeze a third skip into the month.

[Rockphed]

I know a lot of people think that Maggie just gained novice: date-a-mancer, but I think she actually gained master: think-a-mancer. She just gained it in a rival think-a-mancer sub-school to the Great Minds. Somewhere it was mentioned that becoming a master class required gaining deep insight in to the field. I imagine, in a round about way, that gaining novice essentially means being able to do any spells that are completely confined to that school. Adept means that you can cast all pre-made spells in the school, and master means you can make new spells (that potentially tie to other schools). Novice and Adept can be gained by rote study and learning, but Master requires gaining an insight.

I wonder if gaining master (or leveling) grants extra juice. We might be about to see what happens when a master class think-a-mancer (with low juice) fights an adept doll-a-mancer. I would not want to be Bill.

[Elanasaurus]

Oh look, they unlocked basic human decency by finally removing the awful mobile ads AND it have them a great excuse to squeeze a third skip into the month.

Whaddaya mean basic human decency?

[JavaScribe]

Website isn't working right, so here's a direct link to the latest.

[Anteros]

Whaddaya mean basic human decency?

Probably referring to the fact that the particular ads on the site are always trying to infect your device with a virus.


On to the update.

Spoiler

Show

Am I the only one who is completely tired of this string nonsense? The comic desperately needs to go back to characters being clever and outthinking each other instead of just revealing new powers or re-writing the rules every time something needs to happen. There's no tension that exists in the story anymore, and even worse,
it's boring. We don't even get to look forward to the characters being clever anymore.

[guttering flame]

On to the update.

Spoiler

Show

Am I the only one who is completely tired of this string nonsense? The comic desperately needs to go back to characters being clever and outthinking each other instead of just revealing new powers or re-writing the rules every time something needs to happen. There's no tension that exists in the story anymore, and even worse,
it's boring. We don't even get to look forward to the characters being clever anymore.

The art on this page is good.

Spoiler

Show

dollamancers use thread in some of their dolls.

[Dragonus45]

Whaddaya mean basic human decency?

His mobile adds have been a hotbed of crap invasive adds the black the screen and the like for ages. Finally cleaning that up is a pretty basic thing needed to happen a long time ago.

[deuterio12]

Another episode of saturday morning magical Maggie., saving the day with the powers of friendship, love and stringstringstrings.

The art on this page is good.

Yeah the only salvageable thing pretty much.

Here's hoping we get to see Charlie's jaded expression when he finds out his new plan just crashed and burned (and he may have another mental breakdown when he the finds out Hamster is fine and dandy and safe at Jetstone).

[tomaO2]

Probably referring to the fact that the particular ads on the site are always trying to infect your device with a virus.


On to the update.

Spoiler

Show

Am I the only one who is completely tired of this string nonsense? The comic desperately needs to go back to characters being clever and outthinking each other instead of just revealing new powers or re-writing the rules every time something needs to happen. There's no tension that exists in the story anymore, and even worse,
it's boring. We don't even get to look forward to the characters being clever anymore.

I started using ad blocker a few years ago, and Erfworld was the final straw that caused me to do so. The slowdown those ads caused (could be over a minute for a single page, assuming it managed to work without reloading) was beyond intolerable to me while I was trying to do a reread of the comic for my fanfic "The Imperfect Warlord", and then, after I got it, in addition to being able to have a decent page loading, I noticed that the number of viruses that I got (which was in the dozens every day), dropped down to 0. I'm not even sure I NEED an antivirus program anymore. Along with that, my gigabyte usage took a dramatic drop, particularly in the upload section. I can only assume viruses/spyware were uploading information to various people all the time.

People talk about how ads are annoying, but, god damn, ads seem to be the primary way your computer gets infected, and it gives you those viruses even if you don't click on them. When I told Rob as much (he did this plea to readers to take off the adblocker awhile back), he was pissssssed off at me, and went so far to send an email where the first line had him bitching about how I was his worst fan. The very worst. I immediately deleted the damn thing without a second thought. I don't need that ship.

Sorry, Rob, for not wanting nasty viruses from the ads that you can't be bothered to screen better (also complaining about not updating when you say you will, and making critical comments about the story). Where the hell do website hosts get off trying to obligate viewers into doing ads that can mess up their computers? Was really scary too, cause if he's getting mad enough to go that far, I figured it wouldn't take much to push him into deleting my entire account or something, so that kept me pretty quiet for awhile.

On the update, I'm disappointed too. I didn't come to read about magic hax constantly winning the day, and this isn't even clever, it's just lucky power up from a string of coincidences allows instant KO of the dollmancer. That's not to say I'm not impressed by this turn, because I am. It's the most foreshadowed plot twist in the entire comic, and I think it shows off Rob's writing chops in a way that I haven't seen before. Makes me wonder why the hell he is unable to constantly write about the ability of commanders to see stats, and their various bonuses (like chief warlord bonus to all units on the side), though. That said, I come for strategy and tactics, not to watch characters learn new magics to win.

I'm starting to wonder if Parson will EVER do anything cool again. He seems mostly around to describe plans so that they can fail, or give vague orders that allow other characters to triumph, these days. The last time he's done something genuinely clever was end of book 2.

[theKOT]

I'm starting to wonder if Parson will EVER do anything cool again. He seems mostly around to describe plans so that they can fail, or give vague orders that allow other characters to triumph, these days. The last time he's done something genuinely clever was end of book 2.

That is funny, I was just thinking about how refreshing it has been to see characters other than Parson empowered to make decisions and take actions that actually helped their cause.

I do think it's lasted long enough, and I expect we're about to see Parson become relevant again. In the long run, displays of vulnerability and a lack of omniscience make a character's triumphs more rewarding, to me.

[Dragonus45]

I mean, the plot itself makes decent sense. It is stretching the limits of Sanderson's law but so far its just on the inside of that limit for me. That said I hope that the next book takes a step back and goes back to some of the basics that made the first book so good.

[Welf]

I started using ad blocker a few years ago, and Erfworld was the final straw that caused me to do so. The slowdown those ads caused (could be over a minute for a single page, assuming it managed to work without reloading) was beyond intolerable to me while I was trying to do a reread of the comic for my fanfic "The Imperfect Warlord", and then, after I got it, in addition to being able to have a decent page loading, I noticed that the number of viruses that I got (which was in the dozens every day), dropped down to 0. I'm not even sure I NEED an antivirus program anymore. Along with that, my gigabyte usage took a dramatic drop, particularly in the upload section. I can only assume viruses/spyware were uploading information to various people all the time.

That's crass. I have been using NoScript and FlashBlock since 2007 when an ad for a "death clock" pierced my eardrums again and again on TVTropes. Makes me glad I keep doing that.

I was trying to do a reread of the comic for my fanfic "The Imperfect Warlord"

I notice no link to the story?

When I told Rob as much (he did this plea to readers to take off the adblocker awhile back), he was pissssssed off at me, and went so far to send an email where the first line had him bitching about how I was his worst fan. The very worst. I immediately deleted the damn thing without a second thought. I don't need that ship.

I thought you were his best fan? I remember something like that from a few years ago.

On the update, I'm disappointed too. I didn't come to read about magic hax constantly winning the day, and this isn't even clever, it's just lucky power up from a string of coincidences allows instant KO of the dollmancer. That's not to say I'm not impressed by this turn, because I am. It's the most foreshadowed plot twist in the entire comic, and I think it shows off Rob's writing chops in a way that I haven't seen before. Makes me wonder why the hell he is unable to constantly write about the ability of commanders to see stats, and their various bonuses (like chief warlord bonus to all units on the side), though. That said, I come for strategy and tactics, not to watch characters learn new magics to win.

I'm starting to wonder if Parson will EVER do anything cool again. He seems mostly around to describe plans so that they can fail, or give vague orders that allow other characters to triumph, these days. The last time he's done something genuinely clever was end of book 2.

That is funny, I was just thinking about how refreshing it has been to see characters other than Parson empowered to make decisions and take actions that actually helped their cause.

I do think it's lasted long enough, and I expect we're about to see Parson become relevant again. In the long run, displays of vulnerability and a lack of omniscience make a character's triumphs more rewarding, to me.

This development might be because he is the perfect warlord. He not only comes up with clever strategies and tactics, he also enhances the people around him. All of them are developing new skills and growing as people; in particular Maggie, but also Jack, Ansom, Wanda, Lilith, Zhopa, Ace, Sizemore and even Stanley would looked like a lost case early in the comic. That is what makes a good leader. But if that is the intention it would mean the comic goes away from being a true gamer comic.

[Aquillion]

Probably referring to the fact that the particular ads on the site are always trying to infect your device with a virus.


On to the update.

Spoiler

Show

Am I the only one who is completely tired of this string nonsense? The comic desperately needs to go back to characters being clever and outthinking each other instead of just revealing new powers or re-writing the rules every time something needs to happen. There's no tension that exists in the story anymore, and even worse,
it's boring. We don't even get to look forward to the characters being clever anymore.

I agree that the story could stand to depend a little bit less on magical nonsense, but the basic idea of dolls turning on Bill has been foreshadowed for a while now.

[lord_khaine]

I mean, the plot itself makes decent sense. It is stretching the limits of Sanderson's law but so far its just on the inside of that limit for me. That said I hope that the next book takes a step back and goes back to some of the basics that made the first book so good.

That law is a surprisingly good guideline for all sorts of writers.
And in this case i think the outcome had been sufficiently hinted. We had been told about the mental control/connection Bill had to all the dolls he had created.
We also did know that the secret of true dolls was his most intense desire.

[-D-]

That is funny, I was just thinking about how refreshing it has been to see characters other than Parson empowered to make decisions and take actions that actually helped their cause.

Name one clever thing Parson did in Book 3 (and 4)...

[Razade]

Name one clever thing Parson did in Book 3 (and 4)...

Think you're missing the point. Naming something clever Parson has done would rather prove against other characters getting more agency and power.

[keybounce]

I notice no link to the story?

Imperfect warlord?
http://www.erfworld.com/blog/view/46...lord-chapter-1

[deuterio12]

That is funny, I was just thinking about how refreshing it has been to see characters other than Parson empowered to make decisions and take actions that actually helped their cause.

I do think it's lasted long enough, and I expect we're about to see Parson become relevant again. In the long run, displays of vulnerability and a lack of omniscience make a character's triumphs more rewarding, to me.

But we already had other characters doing useful stuff since book 1, while Hamster's had plenty of moments of vulnerability and lack of omniscience, except his plans actually managed to wear down the coalition bit by bit and draw them into an exploding volcano.

Wanda was the one presenting the perfect warlord plan in the first place while refusing Stanley's order of promoting somebody from their ranks for the new chief warlord.

Maggie provided the mind refreshers to keep Hamster going when he was getting too tired to think out of her own initiative.

Sizemore rushed to Wanda's aid with his golems when the croakmancer was down and went to heal her out of his own initiative too.

Jack masterfully used his illusions for escaping an ambush that could've been a deathtrap for Stanley.

Stanley himself was the one who came up with the idea for tri-link maphack that gave GK superior intelligence for half the battle.

Stanley himself was the one who decided to personally pull out from GK, which turned out to be a very good decision because otherwise Hamster couldn't afford to go all out and just blow up the hex to smithereens along the coalition.

[tomaO2]

I notice no link to the story?

Keybounce got it right. Nothing special, just a self insert of me during book 1. Very technical based, because I'm most interested in the wargame aspect of Erfworld. I also posted a link to the rules I created for Erfworld, the strategy game, a few pages back.

I do like the intro, and I felt the count down to the Battle for GK was a good idea. I also think the scene where I ordered a warlord to snipe Ansom to stop him from making a deal with Charlie had a good setup and twist at the end, and I liked the eye book segments, even if picking colours for every person using them was annoying.

Least favourite part was the dwagon siege attack, cause, holy hell, that was extremely technical based. Even I got bored writing it. Don't think I did the best job with the Jillian part that came right after either.

I thought you were his best fan? I remember something like that from a few years ago.

Don't think so. I can't remember a time where I was super loved or anything. Honestly, I was pretty damn critical when the comic was first posted on this website. I had a big meltdown when Parson lost all the dwagons, and I stopped posting. I feel I was wrong to be so angry about that at the time, I really hate setups getting shot down though (on a side note, I finally watched Last Jedi, and, holy hell, that movie went overboard with the anti-climaxes. I thought I knew what I was getting into, but, even with all the reading I did, I was still surprised at points. I didn't realize that "subverting" expectations, means constant narrative let downs of massive scope), unless it's for the sake of comedy. Then I had a resurgence of interest. I am the original poster of the first erfworld thread, and I guess I got along okay at times, it was nice when I was talking in his chat room, and I don't like trying to be negative about someone when I'm actually talking to them. That said, I'm a highly critical person, and not a lot of authors like that (the ones that do are a real treat though)...

No matter how bad I might get, though, I keep my complaints on point. I hate flaming people, heck, I hate arguing at this point, they never go anywhere and they just stress me out, especially when I seem to be the minority opinion much of the time. Still, stuff that annoys me makes me want to say something. I like to think that when I complain I'm giving good reasoning as to why I think something is bad. You can take the criticism or not, but if I didn't care, I wouldn't be giving it. Generally. Some things I'm genuinely bitter about, like the total failure of the original kickstarter Rob did, or Thunt from Goblins screwing up the original Temps Fate 9 game, that he took money for. I don't think I'll ever forgive Thunt for that one, in particular.

This development might be because he is the perfect warlord. He not only comes up with clever strategies and tactics, he also enhances the people around him. All of them are developing new skills and growing as people; in particular Maggie, but also Jack, Ansom, Wanda, Lilith, Zhopa, Ace, Sizemore and even Stanley would looked like a lost case early in the comic. That is what makes a good leader. But if that is the intention it would mean the comic goes away from being a true gamer comic.

No, it's because of thinkamancer hax. I'm sick to death of anything related to thinkamancy. It's the solution for almost everything, and Rob has been using it as a writing crux for awhile. From Wanda freeing prisoners, to dolls destroying their masters, to mass defections of troops, to go home scrolls being forcefully cast, to guns, to sentient towers, etc. Constant links ruin the strategy element of the world. Anything that involves linking is automatically less interesting to me at this point.

[Kornaki]

Yeah at this point it would be better if Rob took a page from Dr mcninja and just posted a page of Maggie with the words "She is a thinkamancer", followed by the next page being everyone talking about how great it was she wrapped up that transylvito kerfuffle so nicely.