OOTS #1122 - The Discussion Thread

[chy03001]

I wonder what level Kudzu is.

He's been with mommy through thick and thin and probably survived a couple encounters by now.

Maybe he's also a low level cleric with spells?

[The MunchKING]

Clerics have decent will saves. Minrah passing her save is not unexpected. Hilgya tanking hers is, but bad rolls do happen.

GW

Didn’t she say she only had 1 level of Cleric, and most of her levels were Fighter?

[Connington]

What's interesting is that Hilgya got "swirly-eyed" but Minrah managed to make her save.

Might be the luck of the dice, but if two rounds just elapsed (with Roy Full Attacking two spawn), that would only give Durkon* and Mace Chick time to whammie four characters. High Level PCs prioritized over low level cleric.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

MINNAH made her save but Hylga couldn’t?

Dang, how bad do you have roll to flub one in your classes area of expertise? I mean “high level” clerics are supposed to be good at that, and she has a huge willpower to cast high level spells like we’ve seen her do.

Yes, but also bad rolls do happen. I've no idea how to calculate the DC of this. The rules say "10 + the level of the spell (4 or 5?) + your bonus for the relevant ability (5-ish?)", but on the vampire page it tells me "caster level 12th", which doesn't seem to come into the calculation at all, and I wonder where I'm supposed to plug it in.

So lets say it's somewhere around DC20. A Cleric of level 16 will have about +5 from wisdom, and +10 from level, so anywhere between 1-4 (i.e. 20% chance) and she's dominated.

Grey Wolf

[In4Dimensions]

Hoo boy. I do wonder how Roy will get out of this one. Does the domination end if the vampires are killed?

[gatemansgc]

durkula looks really happy AFTER the second cleric is (re)killed, that must have been when he succeeded in dominating hilgya.

also, it's amazing what basically a whole party of clerics can do. so much dispel magic!

[Synesthesy]

Oh dear...

This would be the worst possible time for V to get spirited away by the IFCC.

The question is if V will be gone for 3:06 or 20:35.

I don't think that IFCC wants Hel's side to win.... they would probably like the Order to win today's fight.



However, I think that either V or Roy had prepared for this scenario. They know that Belkar have been dominated more then once, they know that magic can be dispelled. If there is a Wizard spell that can help, V have prepared it. If there is a magic wand that can help, Hailey could have bought it and have given to Roy. For example.

[Ornithologist]

For anyone wondering about why Bloodfeast the Exreaminator hasn't reverted, be aware he is still in a pocket dimension in a bag of holding.

[heavyfuel]

Didn’t she say she only had 1 level of Cleric, and most of her levels were Fighter?

I don't think that's correct. Aren't you confusing her with O'Chul (which started as a Fighter before becoming a Paladin)?

[jokem]

Here is hoping V has Magic Circle vs Evil prepared.

[Luna_Mayflower]

Just when my heart falls for Hilgya, Durkon mind controls her! The only person who should be dominating Hilgya is me!

Maybe I should just go back to Jake (Malack).

[Jasdoif]

MINNAH made her save but Hylga couldn’t?

Keep in mind, it's one domination attempt per round; it's not conclusive that Minrah's been targeted to make a save (yet). It's also possible Minrah wasn't in the targeted area of the dispelling barrage.

I don't think that's correct. Aren't you confusing her with O'Chul (which started as a Fighter before becoming a Paladin)?

While we don't have exact numbers, she was a guard before she was a cleric.

[Bob_McSurly]

For anyone wondering about why Bloodfeast the Exreaminator hasn't reverted, be aware he is still in a pocket dimension in a bag of holding.

Thanks! I suppose that makes sense.

[Stiletto]

I don't think it has to be that Minrah made her save but more that Durkula and Ponchita can only dominate one person at a time or that they specifically targeted those hit.

[King of Nowhere]

Yes, but also bad rolls do happen. I've no idea how to calculate the DC of this. The rules say "10 + the level of the spell (4 or 5?) + your bonus for the relevant ability (5-ish?)", but on the vampire page it tells me "caster level 12th", which doesn't seem to come into the calculation at all, and I wonder where I'm supposed to plug it in.

So lets say it's somewhere around DC20. A Cleric of level 16 will have about +5 from wisdom, and +10 from level, so anywhere between 1-4 (i.e. 20% chance) and she's dominated.

Grey Wolf

A cleric of level 16 should have at least a +8 to wisdom, due to a +6 from magic. Add that some resistance bonus; at level 16 you should have +5 resistance already, even in a low magic world like oots I expect at least a +3.
A level 16 cleric shoulldn't fail such a saving throw except with a 1

[D.One]

Didn’t she say she only had 1 level of Cleric, and most of her levels were Fighter?

By our calculations, Minrah is at least 5th level cleric, in order to have cast Searing Light

Yes, but also bad rolls do happen. I've no idea how to calculate the DC of this. The rules say "10 + the level of the spell (4 or 5?) + your bonus for the relevant ability (5-ish?)", but on the vampire page it tells me "caster level 12th", which doesn't seem to come into the calculation at all, and I wonder where I'm supposed to plug it in.

So lets say it's somewhere around DC20. A Cleric of level 16 will have about +5 from wisdom, and +10 from level, so anywhere between 1-4 (i.e. 20% chance) and she's dominated.

Grey Wolf

SRD states that:

Special Attacks: A vampire retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains those described below. Saves have a DC of 10 + 1/2 vampire’s HD + vampire’s Cha modifier unless noted otherwise.

So, assuming Greg is 15th level, his Dominate DC is 17+Cha modifier, which means 19, maybe 20.

[Crœsos]

Didn’t she say she only had 1 level of Cleric, and most of her levels were Fighter?

Not exactly. She said she "was a guard before [she] was a cleric", adding that she's "not the best caster". We don't know the exact breakdown of Minrah's levels, but she's not a straight-up cleric.

[Elkins]

I got to panel 15, and was thinking, "why does Durkula look so happy? He should be confused or distressed or something."
Then I got to panel 16, and I was like "Oh. That's why."

I did the same thing. The advantage to reading OOTS on a truly ancient laptop: it forces you to read one row at a time, which can sometimes work wonderfully to preserve last-panel surprises. (The disadvantage, of course, is that with multiple-page installments you will occasionally fail to notice that there's a second page at all and so click away thinking: "Huh. That was really a rather weak punchline.")

I suppose it would be too much to hope for that Hilgya, as a cleric of Loki, is actually faking those swirly eyes, wouldn't it. Yeah. Thought so.

[Rockphed]

Ah, the joys of skewering vampires from across the room. Now Roy just has to figure out how to break the domination of his team and he'll have this fight in the bag. Or we could release Bloodfeast the Extreminator! Bloodfeast! Bloodfeast!

[TRH]

However, I think that either V or Roy had prepared for this scenario. They know that Belkar have been dominated more then once, they know that magic can be dispelled. If there is a Wizard spell that can help, V have prepared it. If there is a magic wand that can help, Hailey could have bought it and have given to Roy. For example.

It's highly unlikely that Roy has any UMD ranks with which to use a wand. And they already went over their prepared resources for fighting mind control earlier, and Mind Blank was the only thing Vaarsuvius mentioned having.

If anything, I wonder if the best thing now wouldn't be for Roy and V to alpha strike Ponchula and the remaining lesser vampires, and hopefully free whichever party members they're currently dominating. Greg needs his standard action to keep trying to dominate everyone himself, so it'd be a losing battle if he ran out of minions.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I don't think it has to be that Minrah made her save but more that Durkula and Ponchita can only dominate one person at a time or that they specifically targeted those hit.

She also could simply be facing the wrong way to make eye contact.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

A cleric of level 16 should have at least a +8 to wisdom, due to a +6 from magic. Add that some resistance bonus; at level 16 you should have +5 resistance already, even in a low magic world like oots I expect at least a +3.
A level 16 cleric shoulldn't fail such a saving throw except with a 1

Wouldn't she just have lost that +6 from magic from being dispelled? And evidence suggests that in OotS, characters do not just carry around +x saving throw items unless explicitly shown to have acquired them.

GW

[EccentricFellow]

Not sure about the rules here but since you cannot hypnotize children or madmen then I can see why Kudzu is safe. Why Belkars ring stopped working is a bit of a mystery to me and how 1 vampire can dominate so many so easily seems a bit of a stretch. Still in it for the ride though. I am certain there are bound to be more thrills. I wonder what the limits are for commanding someone to do something under domination. I suppose we will find out soon enough. Roy may have to charge rather quickly and finish this fight off, but I seriously doubt that is going to be the way it works.

[eilandesq]

Oh dear...

This would be the worst possible time for V to get spirited away by the IFCC.

The question is if V will be gone for 3:06 or 20:35.

Actually, it might be the *best* time--if the charmed members of the Order and Hilgya all attack V., it could end up being an instakill, which would almost certainly be something the IFCC would not want, as it would destroy the value of their time shares. V. might well be soul sucked (probably for the shorter period) to keep V. invulnerable from all damage for a period. Roy is very resistant to all of the vampire attacks and has good saves and a pile of hit points for anything the others might pull (with the obvious exception of Hilgya, who I suspect will not be controlled for very long).

[hamishspence]

Not sure about the rules here but since you cannot hypnotize children or madmen then I can see why Kudzu is safe. Why Belkars ring stopped working is a bit of a mystery to me and how 1 vampire can dominate so many so easily seems a bit of a stretch.

At least 2 have the glowing eyes. If they're acting immediately after Roy on the same round - then that gives them two shots - one after Roy's first throw, one after Roy's second throw.

If the vampire who is now behind Roy was doing it too, up to 6 people can have been dominated in those two rounds.

And they only need to have dominated the 4 we see with swirly eyes.

Probably Durkula and his right-hand woman dealt with Hilgya and Belkar, and the red-haired vampire dealt with Haley and Elan.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Well, it looks like The High Priest of Hel knows them well enough to know that would work.

[heavyfuel]

While we don't have exact numbers, she was a guard before she was a cleric.

Fair enoguh. I forgot about this line.

By our calculations, Minrah is at least 5th level cleric, in order to have cast Searing Light

Are we sure she was the one casting searing light at Roy in 1093?

[Deliverance]

Also, as a person without 3.5 knowledge, I don't understand why Bloodfeast didn't get turned into a dinosaur. Can anybody explain?

Bloodfeast is not a dinosaur-that-is-currently-kept-in-the-shape-of-a-lizard-through-magic. Bloodfeast is a lizard.

Polymorph and Baleful Polymorph transmute one thing into another. So there is no ongoing magical effect dispel magic to dispel or suppress.

[Rinazina]

Does this mean Haley will sneak attack V and shut hir off in 1 round? I'm afraid so

[Jasdoif]

Wouldn't she just have lost that +6 from magic from being dispelled?

A magic item has to be specifically chosen for a single-target dispel to be suppressed; area dispels only work on...well, spells. And owl's wisdom is only +4, so if a +6 is present it's almost certainly from a magic item (traditionally a +6 periapt of wisdom).