OOTS #1126 - The Discussion Thread

[Peelee]

Ah, I see, so if he were to advance in an attempt to keep out Roy, that would collapse it. I see.

Or moving forward without commanding Hilgya to as well.

[SlashDash]

Question :

Isn't Greg draining energy by touch as a vampire?

How is Kudzo unharmed? Can he choose to suppress it?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Question :

Isn't Greg draining energy by touch as a vampire?

How is Kudzo unharmed? Can he choose to suppress it?

Yes, Greg can choose to NOT use his energy drain, since it requires a slam attack ("Living creatures hit by a vampire’s slam attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess)" [source]). He simply can refrain from attacking Kudzu at all.

GW

[windgate]

What if Kadzu isnt actually a baby at all, but some sort of chaotic evil "trick/trap"? It would explain why Hilga didn't get/pass a new saving throw for handing the baby over......

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm going to venture a guess that it's actually a life insurance for Durkon, in case he died so he would be resurrected because his mom didn't want to risk losing him as well.

I'll place my nominal five dollar bet on this square.

[theMycon]

My guess is along the lines of the majority- SOMEONE needed a rez.

No, that is not "calling it differently". That is the opposite of a donation. The Temple would make exactly 0 profit from such a transaction (or even a -1530 loss, if the cleric still needs to be paid), which is not the kind of thing that gets you put in a golden plate of generous contributors.

Grey Wolf

See Panel 4. Sigdi explicitly mentions donation-for-spellcasting, so it's unequivocally established that they refer to paying for clerical services as a donation. Granted, it's a donation for spellcasting services, but the 25,000 number suspiciously specific. There are plenty of ways to dismiss the hired-caster charge, like "someone else paid it as Sigdi was incapacitated, but the diamonds came from her loot" or "The caster was an adventuring buddy" or "the caster was grateful enough to a man who had heroically sacrificed his life for the town to not worry about one spell slot".

(Also, a -1530g loss is a 1530g gain. From the context your meaning was clear, but the exact opposite of what you said.)

[eilandesq]

No. The intended meaning here is that you cannot push or force movement with an antilife shell. Those who so happen to be in the antilife shell, because they either were there when it was created or DDoored in or whatever, do not affect the antilife shell in any way -- it only matters to them if they leave.

The effect moves with Durkula, so he will need to order Hilgya to keep pace with him if he does, or she will be forced into the shell and it will be dispelled. Meaning that if she does break the domination, Durkula will either need to lose the protection of the shell, or be trapped in there with her in easy reach of touch spells.

[WolvesbaneIII]

I wonder if this is a ploy by hilgya some how. Like, "oh. I have the will to suppress this thing without undoing the swirly eyes, like being able to pretend sobriety when drunk. I could use this to my advantage...I just need the proper opening...and done. undurkon wants the baby as a shield. Perfect. This is quite the risk, but the reward. Fwahahahaha!"

Maybe, maybe not.

Would durkon on his worst day really risk the life of his baby? or was that just a grand speech by undurkon to mess with real durkon?

[Nion]

I don't understand why the Antilife Shell would work.

I thought the Area for that spell was a 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on the caster.

And An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell.

A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area.

So you might think that Antilife Shell would push Hilga and the baby out, except...

This spell may be used only defensively, not aggressively. Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier.

I think casting it within range of life would count as Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures.

So I don't think the spell should have worked.

[Keltest]

The effect moves with Durkula, so he will need to order Hilgya to keep pace with him if he does, or she will be forced into the shell and it will be dispelled. Meaning that if she does break the domination, Durkula will either need to lose the protection of the shell, or be trapped in there with her in easy reach of touch spells.

The spell doesn't prevent the exit of living creatures, only the entrance. If she just stood still while he ran off, the spell would be fine as long as he didn't then try to return to his original seat.

[Fyraltari]

Okay, if Roy doesn't give Hilgya a lecture on parenting (or she spontaneously remarks on how ****ty her behaviour was) I'll answer for nothing.

Why is the vampire Durkon arnor-clad in his mind, while he chooses ribes over armor? Is it just a holdover from when he first awoke or something?

Note that Spirit!Lurkon doesn't have fangs. He is not modelled after what Lurkon looks like but after what Durkon looks like.

The characters of the OotS are notoriously poorly built. Look at Roy, for example: he has not properly dump-statted his Int score, and he has skill points invested in non-combat skills that don't apply to mobility. I know a couple of players who could munchkin the OotS characters for upwards of 50% increase in combat effectiveness.

But would they tell as good a story with these characters?

Fun Fact: 25,000 gp is exactly the price of a True Resurrection.

So I assume Durkon's father actually is alive? Who could he be, because I assume his reveal will change something there.

He's obviously Xykon, I mean, come on, it's all but confirmed.

I may be in error, but I believe the appropriate proclamation is, "Totally called it."

I wouyld sig that if I were you.

That is one of the many obvious questions. Why mom still lacks an arm and why they live in poverty are questions, too.

Living in poverty sounds like the logical consequence to giving 250000 gold pieces to my ears.

[Peelee]

Would durkon on his worst day really risk the life of his baby? or was that just a grand speech by undurkon to mess with real durkon?

Durkon on his worst day wasn't Evil. The vampire is not Durkon on his worst day. Taken at face value, the vampire's motivations and feelings may originate from that, but it's not right to say it's directly transitional.

What did you do with your winnings? Buy a cup of coffee?

Enrolled in Greendale.

[Arkain]

Just yesterday I was wondering how long it's been since the last update and here we are

[Fyraltari]

Would durkon on his worst day really risk the life of his baby? or was that just a grand speech by undurkon to mess with real durkon?

Wether Durkon would risk the life of his baby only matters to wether Lurkon would risk the life of his (the vampire's) baby, not Durkon's. Kudzu is not Lurkon's baby any more Than Sigdi is Lurkon's mother or Roy Lurkon's friend.

Durkon on his worst day wasn't Evil.

But someone who is constently Durkon on his worst day would be evil, no? Because your alignment depends on who you are at all times, if I understand correctly how D&D works?

[KorvinStarmast]

Or, because we don't know the whole story, it might be a whole lot more complicated than that. My money is on this, right now.

Yeah, I'll drop a two dollar side bet on this one.

I won Dungeons and Dragons!

What did you do with your winnings? Buy a cup of coffee?

The Starmast Review says:
Battle Cry was a great book by Leon Uris (Not sure how Marines figure into this, but there ya go)

Elan's fibs are so over the top silly that they are enjoyable

Haley: she needs a bow string. While Elan isn't in danger, she's likely not attacking anyone

Mr Scruffy: get through to Belkar, keep trying. Save Blackwing yet again

Bloodfeast Extreminator: where are you?

Minrah: hanging in there. Her versus Belkar can't end well for her, so more Mr Scruffy heroics seem in order.

Hilgya: baby crying looks like a trigger

Roy: Do I have to do this whole thing myself? Yes, Roy, you do. But you'll get by with a little help from your friends

V: out of the fight. V was out of a lot of the fight with the upgraded Vector Legion in BRiTF. Not worried.

Sigdi: other shoe will drop. Not gonna forecast.

Durkula: smart move to put baby between him and Roy's throwing sword. (but also evil, in terms of using baby as a shield ... well yeah, vampire. Evil). Not sure what spell Ponchula is casting there.

Good strip, and it is very nice that we got the two page/Sunday funnies version of the battle's varied actions and sub scenes.

Thank you Giant!

[TRH]

I don't think True Resurrection is on the table either, but I have wondered why the characters brought it up after they beat the Linear Guild the second time, then. If he really wanted to get across that the spell may as well not exist, then Haley should have been rebutted on that point. Eh.

[Peelee]

But someone who is constently Durkon on his worst day would be evil, no? Because your alignment depends on who you are at all times, if I understand correctly how D&D works?

Eh, even then he didn't actually do anything, just thought some things. By the Ponchella Theorem, we can assume that having thoughts but not acting on them does not make one Evil, The Ponchella Corollary states that this assumes cleric of Thor must be non-Evil.

[GregTD]

I would expect Helga to get a rather serious "re-save, with bonus" when she's told to give her baby to any vampire

Giving to Durkon? That's got to be an "I would never do that!!!"

[Snails]

I
Would durkon on his worst day really risk the life of his baby? or was that just a grand speech by undurkon to mess with real durkon?

I think that it is just a grand speech.

Because the real Durkon had bad days but also possessed the capacity to turn it around and make a better decision even on those bad days. That he did not do so on some of his bad days only makes him human. That he did better on some bad days, well, those are days that Greg does not bother to talk about.

I would like to see evidence that what Greg is saying is actually true. Is Greg someone who is capable of choosing Good sometimes even when he has adequate logical reasons for choosing Evil? If not, then, no, he is not literally Durkon on a bad day.

[Rogar Demonblud]

This is the same woman who willing took her infant into a pitched battle with a coven of vampires. Risk to Kudzu is not a trigger for her.

[Ganbatte]

Wait.... so Durkon's mother cucked his father with a troll?

[Keltest]

I would expect Helga to get a rather serious "re-save, with bonus" when she's told to give her baby to any vampire

Giving to Durkon? That's got to be an "I would never do that!!!"

One of the effects of being dominated is that they wont take any actions not necessary for day to day survival and what they are explicitly ordered to do. Unless Greg explicitly commanded her to hand over Kudzu, it wouldn't have triggered an additional save, since she wasn't being ordered to do anything.

[Snails]

This is the same woman who willing took her infant into a pitched battle with a coven of vampires. Risk to Kudzu is not a trigger for her.

Hilgya is triggered by Lawful. Not Evil.

Whether Greg is LE or NE or CE is not apparent, so Hilgya does not care.

[Anarion]

That’s quite a bit of respect for Roy. Trying to prevent any mode of attacking and bringing in Hilgya as well. Also, using the baby that way is the worst, and the evil vampire is very evil. Here’s hoping the memory disrupts him more than expected.

[AutomatedTeller]

Belkar has his dagger back, which means Minrah let him take it back, which seems like a bad thing for her to do.

Elan is hilarious.

OOTS seems kind of screwed here. Roy can't really hurt Durkula without killing Kudzu.

What did Ponchula do to Roy's sword?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Roy teleported it back to his hand.

[Peelee]

Roy teleported it back to his hand.

I think he meant Roy snapping out of Super Saiyan mode, or Ponchula casting a spell in the final panel.

[Resileaf]

The spell Ponchula is casting is unrelated to Roy's green glow disappearing. It visibly stops glowing because he realizes Durkon is using Kudzu as a dwarven shield, and he was so shocked he just couldn't hold the aura up.

[Fyraltari]

Eh, even then he didn't actually do anything, just thought some things. By the Ponchella Theorem, we can assume that having thoughts but not acting on them does not make one Evil, The Ponchella Corollary states that this assumes cleric of Thor must be non-Evil.

I mean he couldn't do anything back then besides kicking the snow. Durkon's reaction to this memory tells me that he believes that, at this very moment he was serious that, if Asmodeus, or whoever, had popped up with a doom-all-dwarves deal he would have taken it. He would have regretted it only moments after, because that's who Durkon is, but he would have taken it. To be Evil, one needs to act on Evil intentions, for As long as Durkon had the intentions, he didn't have the means to act on them. Then hi anger turned to resignation and sadness as he made his way into the world. Durkon* however, has the intentions and the means to follow them through.

Also, I should probably state my headcannon, that "Your worst day personnified" is an oversimplification of the fact that seeing that memory first colored every single other one and that Jerkon did not have any other memories before. When Durkon* learnt about love, trust, faith, etc as Durkon did, he could remember that Durkon would eventually be betrayed by his people. His life was, mostly, the same as Durkon but seen through a lense of betrayal and suffering. That's why he is like Durkon, but evil.
That's only my headcanon, though. It's not what is said in-comic but I think it fits, don't you?

I think that it is just a grand speech.

Because the real Durkon had bad days but also possessed the capacity to turn it around and make a better decision even on those bad days. That he did not do so on some of his bad days only makes him human. That he did better on some bad days, well, those are days that Greg does not bother to talk about.

I would like to see evidence that what Greg is saying is actually true. Is Greg someone who is capable of choosing Good sometimes even when he has adequate logical reasons for choosing Evil? If not, then, no, he is not literally Durkon on a bad day.

Greg is free-willed, that means he does have the ability to act Good, he just choses not to, like Tarquin doesn't either.

What did Ponchula do to Roy's sword?

What are you talking about?

[Gluteus_Maximus]

That's just cruel. Hilgya is gonna be sooo pissed. And Durkon is within Harms reach

More like within Heal's reach