OOTS #1126 - The Discussion Thread

[Ralanr]

Wouldn't the baby die instantly in an Anti-life shell?

Like, I get the use for dramatic effect and the Giant doesn't strictly to game rules when telling a story, but I feel like that Baby wouldn't last long enough to cry in an anti-life shell.

Or maybe idk how anti-life shell works.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Roy almost killed Durkula's true love (the chair that he was slow-dancing with in panel 8 of 1123)! How cruel!

Durkula, realizing how short and precious life is, decides to adopt Kudzu and start a family with his beloved chair.

[hamishspence]

Or maybe idk how anti-life shell works.

It's a barrier designed to stop the living from entering:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antilifeShell.htm

but it's not a harmful barrier. And beings inside the field are not affected.

[Ralanr]

It's a barrier designed to stop the living from entering:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antilifeShell.htm

but it's not a harmful barrier. And beings inside the field are not affected.

Ok, I thought it was painful to the living inside as well. Thanks.

[Snails]

Greg is free-willed, that means he does have the ability to act Good, he just choses not to, like Tarquin doesn't either.

Irrelevant.

My point is that until Greg demonstrates he will once in a blue moon choose to act Good, I deny that he is actually Durkon on a bad day. Because even on those bad days, I strongly suspect Durkon would have chosen Good sometimes if the moment so happened to arrive. Cursing to heavens is not even an Evil act (unless backed by overt magical power). It is just an unfortunate emotion with words.

In other words, the claim that taking a subset of a person's emotions/feelings/beliefs makes a version of the original person is simply untrue. Greg may well sincerely believe it is true, given his origin and minimal experience of the world. And it is an effective psychological weapon against Durkon, at least until Durkon fully realizes such is wrong.

[BlueHydra]

Nobody puts baby on a corpse.

[Fyraltari]

My point is that until Greg demonstrates he will once in a blue moon choose to act Good, I deny that he is actually Durkon on a bad day. Because even on those bad days, I strongly suspect Durkon would have chosen Good sometimes if the moment so happened to arrive.

Neither I, nor the comic, have to abide by your headcanons. You are demanding that a character that, by the look of it, only has a few in-comic days to exist to behave in a way that runs directly againstwhat he his trying to achieve. That is not, to me, a reasonnable standard of evidence to ask for.

Cursing to heavens is not even an Evil act (unless backed by overt magical power). It is just an unfortunate emotion with words.

Irrelevant.

In other words, the claim that taking a subset of a person's emotions/feelings/beliefs makes a version of the original person is simply untrue. Greg may well sincerely believe it is true, given his origin and minimal experience of the world. And it is an effective psychological weapon against Durkon, at least until Durkon fully realizes such is wrong.

That's not what I said.

Lurkon is the same as Durkon was on his worst day, that means the same as Durkon with the emphasis shifted from the nobler parts of his personnality to the vilest.

[Larsen]

Would killing some spawn mean belkar (for example) might not be dominated any more ? And since he has glasses on, we won't (and nether Greg) know until the time is best for a good surprise ?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Would killing some spawn mean belkar (for example) might not be dominated any more ? And since he has glasses on, we won't (and nether Greg) know until the time is best for a good surprise ?

Vampiric domination works like Dominate Person, and thus does not end with the death of the vampire. The closest it gets is that a dead vampire cannot spend 1 round per day concentrating on keeping the domination going, thus granting the subject a saving throw that day.

"If you don’t spend at least 1 round concentrating on the spell each day, the subject receives a new saving throw to throw off the domination."

(There are other ways a subject can be granted a new save, none as directly related to the timely demise of the vampire)

GW

[Fyraltari]

Would killing some spawn mean belkar (for example) might not be dominated any more ? And since he has glasses on, we won't (and nether Greg) know until the time is best for a good surprise ?

Belkar was dominated by Ponchella, not the spawns.

[AutomatedTeller]

The spell Ponchula is casting is unrelated to Roy's green glow disappearing. It visibly stops glowing because he realizes Durkon is using Kudzu as a dwarven shield, and he was so shocked he just couldn't hold the aura up.

Oh, that makes sense. That both things were green must have confused me. Roy better be getting his sword mojo back, though, cause the rapidly shrinking order needs it pretty badly.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Belkar was dominated by Ponchella, not the spawns.

I don't think we can tell who dominated whom.

GW

[Rogar Demonblud]

She explicitly comments on how easy it is to make him hurt others.

[Nion]

It's a barrier designed to stop the living from entering:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antilifeShell.htm

but it's not a harmful barrier. And beings inside the field are not affected.

I thought the Area for that spell was a 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on the caster.

And An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell.

A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area.

[Kashem]

So the thought now is that Durkon did not know something about his Father's death, or that what Squeaky told him in 991 was partially incorrect, or at minimum incomplete.
So the question is, what part?
I've got decent odds on the last crayon panel "When the clerics examined her, they discovered she was pregnant. With you."
Notable here because she donated a huge sum of money to those same clerics. Here are a couple of theories:

Squeaky is a bard, or close enough. "With you." is redundant, as Durkon has no brothers or sisters. A 25k donation to adopt a child and have them treat it as her blood?

A 25k donation to somehow secure some kind of magical artificial insemination so that Sigdi could have something left of Tenrin? What would be the cost of a Miracle be? Maybe the reason that the High Priest of Thor at the time could no longer cast Regeneration was because the gods demanded such a high price for the miracle she wanted?

What if Sigdi, or Tenrin, were infertile? A 25k donation for a wish for her to be able to carry a child anyway?

Or, my most morbid, but also kind of beautiful thought:
In the same panel, "The baby survived??"
What if she miscarried, and the 25k was a True Resurrection (or Miracle)... for Durkon? We already know that Odin sees all, and he had plans for Durkon. He could very well have sent his high-priest to make sure that the child survived (or was brought back), but had her donate to the temple of Thor instead, to help secure Durkon's future there. Durkon was likely only a collection of cells at the time, so having a "part of his body" would likely have been virtually impossible anyway. I could see that as a legitimate, not plot-destroying use for the True Resurrection spell.

Just some thoughts.

[ProfLucario]

Oof, things are not looking well for Team Good Guys. Looking at their current situation, it seems like the most viable strategy would be for Roy to try to grapple Belkar so that Minrah can successfully heal V, though that would require disengaging from Elan first (I've only played 5e, so I'm not sure if the Disengage rules are different in 3.5e).

On an unrelated note, I love how everyone talking about the comic calls Vampire Durkon / Durkula / Greg / etc. something different.

[Xianthe]

On an unrelated note, I love how everyone talking about the comic calls Vampire Durkon / Durkula / Greg / etc. something different.

Well, there is precedent, after all.

[Coolio Wolfus]

Am usually ignored here but...

My thoughts are that the temple of Thor put out a request for donations to raise a certain Troll to prevent a Dwarven/Troll war breaking out.

Rez husband vs res troll and stop a war.

Hmmmm.

That would also explain the pension, lifetime interest payments to cover her losses, financial and husband.

[Evergone]

Ok, no idea how exactly this is going to play out, but I'm recording a few things so I can check them off later and see how wrong I was (and yes, I know I'm not the first to come up with at least some of these).

Things I expect to come up with respect to Durkon's father:
947 (Keep in Mind (!)), panel 9: Di. Nae. Le. Go.
963 (Internal Struggles), panel 5: ye should na help someone witout askin’ first. Ye might make things worse if’n ye do.
991 (A Sergeant and a Sapper), panel 1 on page 3: Durkon: So…Pa died a hero.
Thirden: Yes.

Guess: Tenrin did not die a hero, somehow Sigdi tried to help him, but her interference led to his death (and the loss of her arm). Which makes it possible that he's actually with Hel rather than Thor (could be him in 1081, panel 1, but I don't actually think so).
I don't think Thirden lied, I think he told the truth as he knows it, but as Sigdi tells Durkon here, it's not the complete story. As is already obvious from 991, as Durkon himself alludes to.

These are all threads that seem like they can come together nicely, but I can't work out exactly how - but part of me doesn't want to. I guess I don't want to spoil myself by figuring out the resolution before the climax.

[Dion]

Belkar has his dagger back, which means Minrah let him take it back, which seems like a bad thing for her to do

Haven’t you ever played table top D&D?

PCs always get thrown weapons back at the end of every round, except under two rare circumstances:

1) the DM is keeping track of who threw what, or
2) another PC is a being a jerk and tells the DM.

In all other cases, the PCs always get their weapons back, in the same way they always have enough arrows, they always have spell components, and they always have 5,000 feet of rope and enough ten foot poles to build a small barge (and enough small sacks to sew together a sail for that barge).

[Nion]

I've got it. Evil Durkon is Durkon's father.

[Sebastian]

The characters of the OotS are notoriously poorly built. Look at Roy, for example: he has not properly dump-statted his Int score, and he has skill points invested in non-combat skills that don't apply to mobility. I know a couple of players who could munchkin the OotS characters for upwards of 50% increase in combat effectiveness.

Kudzu on Durkula's lap may seem like a wise move to Durkula, but I get the feeling that it's the first step in his defeat.

I don't know if it the same in America but here (Italy) it was used to say that baby's piss was"holy" (pipì santa)

[godsflunky]

The lock of hair would've needed to have been part of the body at death. Not cut off earlier as a memento.

The body part in question needs to have been part of the corpse at the time of death for it to count.

Thanks, folks. That's about what I was expecting, but I wasn't sure.

Also, unimportant, but it stopped being AD&D with 3rd edition and became just D&D.

Shows what I know!

[Dion]

I've got it. Evil Durkon is Durkon's father.

So that makes Hilgya his sister!

Also, Han shot first.

[Sebastian]

I thought the Giant was on record as stating he really doesn't like True Resurrection? To the point of that it might as well not exist in StickWorld? After all, Laurin and Tarquin seemed pretty confident that Nale wasn't coming back, blood on the pleather wrappings or not. 17th level clerics are probably pretty hard to find though, even if 25k in components aren't.

True Rez existing does seem like the narrative reason though for her correcting Durkon that it was 25k, not 20k.

Streamofthesky, at this point I'm just rolling with the Order's constantly failed saves. Treat it like how most movies handle guns, and stop counting how many times the hero gets to shoot without reloading. I think the story more than makes up for it.

Maybe his father is dead, she collected the money for a TR,but before doing it she contacted him/was contacted somehow and he told her that he didn't want to come back because he had to stay death to do ... something.

Clue Durkon's ghost-dad appearing and kicking not-durkon- undead ass.

[nocoolnamejim]

Yes, yes it is. This is the kind of action a Lawful Evil individual would take after promising no to hurt a baby.

GW

Exactly. Letter of the law, not the spirit of it. He hasn't broken his promise. He hasn't hurt the kid in any way.

Oh and btw, everybody who called Hilgya out for being a terrible mother for wearing her baby into battle on the front of her chest rather than leave it behind in safety are proven 100% right.

[FlawedParadigm]

Why do people keep saying Belkar has his dagger back? He's holding one dagger and one stake, not two daggers.

[Ghosty]

I'm certainly not the Giant, but if I had to offer a guess, it's probably something to do with Greg being the embodiment of Durkon's lowest moment. If memory serves, he was robed when he was thrown out of dwarven lands, and even when he was armored in the flashback, perhaps he still thought of himself as an acolyte instead of an adventurer. So Greg naturally has more affinity for robes instead.

Just a thought.

I've been wondering about that too, and your elegant answer makes the most sense of any I've heard of.

[Resileaf]

Why do people keep saying Belkar has his dagger back? He's holding one dagger and one stake, not two daggers.

He's been using a dagger and a stake since they've got into the dwarven lands.

[nocoolnamejim]

Antilife Shell doesn't harm living beings, just makes people outside the shell unable to cross it.

However, using the baby as a shield against Roy's bastard sword is effectively putting him in harm's way.

I'd disagree with this because, by now, Greg knows Roy enough to know that there's absolutely no way he'd throw his sword at he'd throw his sword again with the baby hostage in the way.

So he's sticking to the true letter of the law once again. The baby isn't in harms way anymore than before. But now Greg's not in harm's way either.